Can somebody explain to me why it seems to be acceptable today to express a price as say $3.4 instead of $3.40? I was taught that the correct way to write the Australian currency was to two decimal places, regardless of zeros (perhaps with the exception of whole dollar amounts, where it may be expressed as $3 or $3.00). Did I miss the memo? Is it something being taught in schools now, or is it an influence from overseas currencies and new arrivals who can't be bothered adopting our system? A bit lazy and disrespectful if that is the case. Just as if I went overseas and started rewriting their rules, it wouldn't sit too well with them. It seems to be an infiltration by stealth, eroding the Australian ways and customs and converting it to something foreign.
Dropping zeros from quoted prices
Comments
Not really, prices are often calculated to a smaller multiple of the smallest currency denomination. Otherwise we will be in for a shock when petrol which is priced in tenths-of-a-cent jumps at 10c per increment.
$3.4 could mean anything from $3.40-$3.44. $3.45-$3.49 would become $3.5.
$3.4 could mean anything from $3.35-$3.44 in your example
You can still pay the exact amount using electronic payment. In fact 1c and 2c coins are still legal tender (up to a limit), it's just that people don't have them any more so the law allows "Swedish rounding".
Not true (to parent comment, not previous), if you buy something for $19.97 with a credit card, you are charged $19.97
Bloody foreigners coming and changing MY CURRENCY!
Have you got any actual evidence of:
a) this actually happening
b) it being done by lazy foreigners with no respectOr are you just spouting nonsense?
Yeah, I've never seen this either!
And if it is happening somewhere, who cares, unless they try to charge you $3.44 and argue that $3.4 could be anywhere between $3.40 and $3.44.
If anything, as an Ozbargainer, you should be encouraging this practice..
Just think, the texta used to write the signs would last 25% longer writing only $3.4 and you still get the message across!a)
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/104335
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/102934
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/103212I never said b).
It's hardly nonsense. I see it all the time, I'm asking if everyone else sees it, and why? And as others have pointed out, it seems to be a common European practice.
I would say the primary reason for the examples you give is that the prices are listed in the title - and you have limited characters. It's also probably just a shortcut thing for a lot of people - like shortening words. We all do it, just some people more than others.
As for the menus in restaurants; there are studies that show that people spend more money if the menu doesn't show a dollar sign or have the usual number of decimal places. It's something to do with not mentally connecting an abstract number with money. ie. 59.9 doesn't trigger the same OH MY GOD YOU WANT $60 FOR A FREAKING SALAD reaction in our brains that $59.90 does. It's also a bit of a snobbery thing for some restaurants…you shouldn't care about the price as they are so awesome…then there are the rest of them who have really just jumped on the bandwagon because all the other snobby places do it, not even knowing the original reasons why it is done.
it might be a bug in ozbargain, when it automatically tries to reformat the title. who knows
Hmm. No, it's not the case.
In the cases you quote.
- Cant be explained.
- Is an overseas vendor, so have different standards
- Is an obvious case of running out of space in title, as only one (the last)has dropped the last digit and the title is at max characters.
This is not disputing your issue, but a forum (ozb) post is different from a regular advertisement. The menu example has been discussed, so I am not referring to those. Can you supply examples of those, as in that case the issue would be a little worrying.
Then again its part of the globalisation effects of the internet (or should I say globalization?). Remembering that our government placed laptops in all the schools to help edjucate our kids… :)
Cheers
These were just the first 3 examples I could find. I see the practice all the time on OzBargain, as does Scotty. Unfortunately the search engine here isn't that great to do wildcard searches, otherwise I'd return dozens of examples if not more. I'd do a search for "$#?.#<space>" where #? = any quantity of numbers and # = one number.
I'm not sure what sort of examples you are asking for. We've got links here to deals where people are writing prices in this manner, as well as with a trailing currency symbol. There are links to menus showing the practice. There are references to it being common in Europe, and it is actually in proper use in those places. Do you mean like this? http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/images/c/cf%20cj/c… I see this a lot at produce markets and Asian grocery shops, which I frequent often as a xenophobe :) I see it on written receipts supplied with goods from online purchases for example, but I am entirely happy with that as it is correct at the point of origin.
It's not actually globalization until there is a common worldwide currency.
I've seen this happen at many Thai, Chinese and even Indian restaurants and take-aways. These are the only places though.
Considering the Indians gave the world the "0", I think it's fair for them to take it away. ;)
Disclaimer: I only jest! Please keep your 0s.
I've never seen this happen, but I don't really care if it does. This post just read to me as 'get off my lawn!'.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Restaurant menus do that to make their menus 'tidier' and nicer to look at. It's purely an aesthetic (and some say snobbish) thing to do.
For e.g
4.5
6.3
4.2
3.7
2.6Looks tidier and neater than a list of prices with recurring symbols (dollar signs and zeroes)
$4.50
$6.50
$4.50
$5.20
$2.60
Writing $3.4 or worse $3,4 is quite common in Europe. I'm guessing either a business has not realized or is doing it intentionally (e.g. fancy European restaurant).
Using a comma as a separator for currency is actually correct in certain countries. I don't have a problem with that, but if it is used elsewhere, it can cause confusion.
Comma and period reverse roles in Europe. Look at your spreadsheet program and you will see European settings for numbers and currency amounts.
Common on restraunt menus.
Yes, just about every menu I have seen recently is starting to do this. Trying to dress the place up as a classy restaurant.
to me, $3.4 = $3.40 in term of financial means. Math-wise, it's not correct.
But money wise, I have no problem with that.
While I'm at it, the other convention being broken is writing a trailing currency symbol, e.g. 3.4$. Again, this may be correct in some countries, but here it is just plainly confusing. I know I'm getting older, but this seems to be a recent trend. I'm not sure if it is "slang" or "cool" like 1337-speak once was, or like text messaging abbreviations etc. I'm hoping someone could explain the change to me. As I said originally, I must have missed the memo about it if it was an official change and I haven't seen any mention of it if it is a generational thing.
I don't think that's done on purpose, it's usually just a mental slip up when typing/writing out the number because in your head it's "one hundred dollars (100$)" rather than "dollars one hundred ($100)".
If people actually do that on purpose then I am disappoint.
I usually write 10$ or something to that effect in text messages and some online forums, as that is what happens in my train of thought when typing something. But of course for more formal documents I write it correctly.
As a point of interest, I was born and raised in Australia and am currently 21 years old and I wouldn't consider it a "1337" thing.
I have no problem with it. It tends to happen on menus of classier places, the implication is that "we are not fussed about amounts smaller than 10c". Some go even further and round amounts to the nearest 50c, e.g. $7.5, $24, $48.5. I guess if you are in a place like that you know what damage to expect to your wallet.
First World Problem
The point is, if you just go around changing the order of things if you feel like it, it is confusing. Perhaps if I unilaterally decide to change the language used on OzBargain when I post a deal, there won't be any problem…對不起，我沒有學好一門外語，我在學校的時候。您必須使用澳大利亞貨幣，當你在澳大利亞。更改訂單導致混亂。
آسف، لم أكن تعلم لغة أجنبية، عندما كنت في المدرسة. يجب عليك استخدام العملة الاسترالية، عندما كنت في أستراليا. تغيير ترتيب الرصاص إلى الارتباك.
אנטשולדיגט, איך האט נישט לערנען אַ פרעמד לשון ווען איך איז געווען אין שולע. איר מוזן נוצן די קראַנטקייַט פון אויסטראַליע ווען איר זענט אין אויסטראַליע. טשאַנגינג די סדר רעזולטאַטן אין צעמישונג.
It's not a big deal. You understood what it means. Putting $ after the amount is a wank though.
Slow claps -____-
ahh you could try! Who or what's stopping you from posting in ozbargain in a language other than english? Certainly not the deal posting guidelines.
You started off with an entirely valid point but that quickly gave way to an incoherent, xenophobic rant.
p.s. driving a point across using only google translate is perhaps not the best way to go
People are so quick to use the xenophobic or racist card these days without proper consideration. I am neither hateful nor fearful of foreigners or of their politics or culture. I asked a question seeking the reason why it is happening here.
Is it something being taught in schools now, or is it an influence from overseas currencies and new arrivals who can't be bothered adopting our system?
It has been established that it is a convention used in European countries to express their currency. It's quite a valid observation to suggest it is an influence from that.
A bit lazy and disrespectful if that is the case.
If I go overseas, I take the time to learn the cultural differences and make an effort to respect the laws and practices. I find people that can't be bothered to do that to be lazy and disrespectful. You'd be called worse if you decide to go to Mecca and walk clockwise at the Hajj whilst eating a pork sandwich.
Just as if I went overseas and started rewriting their rules, it wouldn't sit too well with them.
Please ask Schapelle Corby about this one.
It seems to be an infiltration by stealth, eroding the Australian ways and customs and converting it to something foreign.
What's wrong with respecting the Australian ways and traditions and laws? There's nothing xenophobic about spending billions of dollars on border protection. We have a constitution which defines who we are, our customs should only be changed by consensus not by stealth. Please look at the Pledges of Alliegence or Oaths of Citizenship that many countries impose on their citizens, all designed to respect their laws and protect their cultures. Maybe they are all "xenophobic"?
driving a point across using only google translate is perhaps not the best way to go
Why? It was to point out that using "language" you were not accustomed to can be confusing. Did you have to use Google Translate to decipher it, so you weren't confused any more? Point made then.
People are so quick to use the xenophobic or racist card these days without proper consideration. I am neither hateful nor fearful of foreigners or of their politics or culture.
oh please, if you're going to use a dictionary at least use it right. Xenophobia and racism are 2 different things and at no point did i mention the latter.
Now i understand the written word is hardly a substitute for face-to-face conversations and a lot of things get lost along the way but the way you phrased your original post made me think you are, as you so kindly looked up "fearful of foreigners or of their […] culture"
It seems to be an infiltration by stealth, eroding the Australian ways and customs and converting it to something foreign
but i'm hardly the right person to provide you insight as i'm no sociologist.
Did you have to use Google Translate to decipher it, so you weren't confused any more? Point made then.
i take pride in actually understanding basic mandarin and mate, there is no way you could have typed that without using some sort of translation software. The meaning is there but the sentences are laughably disjointed.
How does this sound:
sorry, i did not properly learn a foreign language well, when i am in school. Sir/Madam must use Australia's currency, when you are in Australia. Change order invoice leads to confusion / chaos.The last bit reminded me of fortune cookies; guess i know what i'm having tonight.
/edit: oh dear this is my 666th comment. :\
Sorry if you took the racist thing personally. I did not accuse you of being racist, it was an observation that people in general are too eager to use the racist/sexist/misogynistic/whatever card at the slightest provocation, without even stopping to consider if it is appropriate or what those terms literally mean. I hoped I cleared up my original post by breaking it down and hopefully showing that I am not xenophobic. I'm sorry you read it that way. I don't see a "xenophobic rant" in there at all. Perhaps a bit of patriotism.
Yes I used Google translate to translate a message into 3 separate languages. In fact it was to make the point in case people could read one of them, they would be confronted with additional alien languages which would confuse them. I translated from English to foreign and back to English so I could see nothing was being lost in translation. Perhaps that's why it reads so strangely, but Google Translate seemed happy with it, and that's what I was going for, as I assumed the majority of people would use that to convert it. I did not learn a foreign language in school. I am not professing to know how to write in these languages. Google Translate was used to make a point about how confusing things can get if not written properly. Did I make my point? Nothing personal.
Hey mate try this:
вашей прибыли, кажется, действительно пострадали от нечто совершенно тривиально. Этот раздел можно считать эволюцию "австралийской культуры".What's wrong with respecting the Australian ways and traditions and laws?
There's nothing xenophobic about spending billions of dollars on border protection. We have a constitution which defines who we are, our customs should only be changed by consensus not by stealth. Please look at the Pledges of Alliegence or Oaths of Citizenship that many countries impose on their citizens, all designed to respect their laws and protect their cultures. Maybe they are all "xenophobic"?Please understand that "Australian culture" and traditions are constantly evolving as there is no rigid cultural identity formed as of yet. Australian culture is in it's infancy and was predominantly influenced by the largest "immigrant" culture .. i.e. people from the UK. Now things are different, there is a veritable cultural melting pot in most major population centres in Australia. Therefore, the "evolution" of the Australian culture as it still hasn't reached a "steady-state" (considering it's absolutely nascent as compared to most of the other cultures).
If this post caused you any unintended offence, my sincerest apologies.
It's trendy. All the hip places do it
It is $3.40 because you read it as 3 dollars and 40 cents. Not 3.4 dollars.
Perhaps should all adopt a new standard.. all words.
Three Australian dollars And Forty Only.
I don't see the difference if the price is exactly $3.40, live with it.
No big deal. They are just numbers.
Focus on the product you are buying, not how they've written the price. You'll be better for it, trust me :)
PS: Not sure what the reference to foreigners ruining Australian ways is about. Foreigners created Australian ways in the first place :)
I agree with OP though — sometimes feel a bit annoyed & used my mod power to fix them up whenever I see one. Another little annoyance is how people write $0.00 (like this PS2 deal), or other full dollar amount that people insist to write out .00 cents. Why not just $0? Or $42 instead of $42.00?
playing the devil's advocate here.
the ps2 post was honestly a bit of a joke, those zeroes were probably to emphasise how "free" it was. And yes, the .00 is redundant when dealing with whole amounts but then again it could be due to a force of habit.
Maybe if you made 'free' automatically turn red like it does for prices it may stop people.
I have never seen this.
I've seen restaurants quoting prices like this (eg. 8.9 or 8,9) to look trendy because "$8.90" is so commonplace that it looks more like a fast food menu.
I also don't get why some foreign names keep the same foreign spelling in English while saying…"ah..it is pronounced as this - its spelling comes from a foreign language".
Eg.
Spelt as Jana but pronounced as Yana.Following the same tradition, one could say one's name is spelt as "Shdjfj Jhhskg" which is to be pronounced as "James Bond" in English.
I also don't get why some foreign names keep the same foreign spelling in English
Is this a serious question?
Yes, it is. My understanding is that when you write something in a language-A, you have to use the script following the rules in language-A, so that it doesn't confuse the readers. The confusion arises because many languages share some portions of the Roman alphabet, but they have different rules in pronunciation. In some languages, Y sound is denoted by the letter J, so it is correct in that language to write "Jana". In English, Y sound is denoted by letter Y, so in English it has to be written as "Yana". (In the same manner, Japanese have completely different spellings using their script for "Jana". )
So you want all those people to have to explain why their business card doesn't match their birth certificate or passport just because their name doesn't conform to an arbitrary phonetic standard, in this case Australian English? You want Havier, Yudith, Eeves? What about those Anglo-Saxon names that are not strictly phonetical? Do you want Hue? Isn't it already accommodating enough of some that say oh just call me John.
So you want all those people to have to explain why their business card doesn't match their birth certificate or passport just because their name doesn't conform to an arbitrary phonetic standard, in this case Australian English?
If a person has their birth certificate/passport or any other document in a foreign language (eg. Japanese, Chinese, Slavic, etc), things will be different to how they are spelt in English. That is why translations are for. Foreign names (eg. Japanese, Chinese, Indian names) will have different script and spellings when translated to English, so should other names, including Slavic names (as in my example). Is it fair to say, "Ah..my name is spelt in a foreign language like this, so I will carry forward the same spellings to English and the English speakers have to learn the rules of foreign languages to pronounce my name?"
Do you want Hue? Isn't it already accommodating enough of some that say oh just call me John.
You have completely missed my point. I am all for pronouncing foreign names correctly. In order to do this, those names have be to written in English following the writing rules in English. If those names are written in foreign alphabets following rules of foreign languages, English speaker have to either learn the pronouncing rules of foreign languages or mis-pronounce the names.
Ahh just call all your friends Bruce. :)
The world is a diverse place. Deal with it.
You realise that the other pronunciations of the Latin alphabet have as much legitimacy as the one you leant and are sometimes older.
The world is a diverse place. Deal with it.
Those who insist on keeping foreign language spellings and asking English speakers to learn the rules and scripts of foreign languages do not understand that the world is a diverse place.
You realise that the other pronunciations of the Latin alphabet have as much legitimacy as the one you leant and are sometimes older.
"Much legitimacy" in English or any other language? Latin alphabet is used in many languages that have different pronunciation rules. Legitimacy in one language does not grant legitimacy in another.
This is sounding like a the world is too complicated for me and I can't cope with it thread. Good luck, I leave you to it.
This is sounding like a the world is too complicated.
With 200+ languages, indeed, the world is diverse and complicated. I wish you good luck in learning the pronunciation rules of those 200+ languages. ;-)
I don't have to. I have enough brain cells and respect for my friends to remember how to pronounce their names correctly perhaps after a first mistake. And yes I do happen to know a few of those 200, enough to cover a significant portion of the world.
I can see that being a newsreader was not a career suggestion for you. :)
Ratbag is a smarter and more succinct person than I am.
I can see that being a newsreader was not a career suggestion for you. :)
No, because my career involves thinking and acting logically. Something elusive to ratbags who think the use of script in a language is superseded by remembering how a few friends' names are pronounced. ;-)
Fortunately there are people in the world who can think and act logically and know languages. :P
Fortunately there are people in the world who can think and act logically and
..and they shiver when they see some others argue that "How do you explain a passport in Language-A having different spellings to a business card written in Language-B?" :-)
Well as I said, good luck with your quixotic quest. :P
deleted.
Well reading this thread was a waste of 10 minutes of my life. With all the problems we have in our modern life I would be hard pressed to have come up with a more pointless question. It exactly right, $3.5, its three point five dollars. Thats why we have a metric system. Who cares? In about 7 years the 5 cents will be dropped and it may become the norm. Better get ready to deal with it.
English is an evolving language and always has been. Why aren't you lamenting the fact we still have to write "knife" when the k is superfluous? Jane and George have the same beginning sound? Sean instead of Shawn?!Keep Calm and go find some bargains
You forgot the minute that you also wasted replying… :)
First world problems. Seriously people.
You people are all retarded. Mathematically, 3.4 = 3.40
On a related note: I hate it when the bank reports my balance as $10 instead of $0000000010
Makes me think they're hiding the billion dollars that might otherwise be in my account. Just rounding it down.
My local fast food shop prices are all in the $x.x format, $9.4 etc.
As a fellow ozbargainer, I think the focus on this topic should not be whetherit is correct or not to have the final digit in price.
I think it is more of a consumer behavior and marketing topic.
From experience eating out, I find "posh" or expensive restaurants like to drop off the dollar sign and final digit, followed by a long item name.
I suspect that they purposely do this so that their expensive menu list doesn't look so ugly and like a rip off. By removing the dollar sign it helps you forget you are looking at units of currency. Dropping the final digit often means prices have 3 digits rather than 4 and hence doesn't look as expensive at first glance.e.g
34.0 250g Angus Rump steak with organic mushroom sauce and side of chef special baked potatoes29.0 Fried coral trout with zest of organic lemon and side of freshly cut chips
Compared to:
$33.95 Rump Steak with chips
$28.95 Fish and chips
If diners had to read a long menu item to the waiter/waitress, they may be more focused on the long name rather than the price.
If you go to UNSW, I hear consumer behavior in the marketing faculty is really interesting subject to study about subtle tricks marketers do to stuff consumers around.
Any UNSWer's out there?
+1
I love it when catalogues are printed with copious usage of the word 'crazy!' and 'massive savings' and 50% off!
Particularly when measured against the manufacturer's pie-in-the-sky RRP. I also like the strategy BigW uses: their prices often end in irregular/less-used cents figures like $29.83. This makes me think they are going the extra mile to save every cent and makes me pull out my wallet immediately.
So do those catalogues that have rougher-looking fonts and presentation like JB Hi-Fi. I immediately think "Discount Extreme!" I also enjoy the 'rough-and-ready' look of Bunnings catalogues. They are a warehouse, they have to be cheap man!
I enjoy the Harvey Norman jingle too. Go Harvey! They are so enthusiastic about their low (?) prices.
With all these subtle marketing cues…you know you've got a deal, even without doing mundane time-wasting things like checking prices with other stores!
I feel not-right when I see one number after the decimal point.
I also feel not-right when Europeans use a comma instead of a dot when pricing items.But I'll chase those bargains regardless.
3.4 = 3.40
3.4 =/= 3.41
Math.
It's obviously just cafes etc being fancy. Don't have a cow, man.
I guess if we ever do away with 5c pieces then he last digit sort of becomes redundant.
In maths if you don't express the decimal place then it means you have not calculated the result to that degree, so $3.4 could mean anything from $3.40 to $3.49.