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today is the last day to redeem this scoopon I called them to book my flight experience, was told i cannot redeem ever and my money is gone,,, how can i get my money back
Thanks
Melbourne Aviation Scoopon refuse to redeem - how to get refund?
[Deactivated] on 01/02/2013 - 14:04
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I can't believe the company didn't argue this to begin with. It would have saved a lot of drama from their side.
i take 'by' to mean up to and including
according to them I can book by today,, but they do not have vacancies ,, so cannot redeem
and was told your $149 is GONE,, cannot do any thing
man its $149 I dont even earn that much per day…. and it is gone
That doesn't make sense. Surely they can just book you in for a later date? Maybe ask for a manager.
Otherwise, contact Scoopon today, emphasizing the date today and make note of who you spoke to on the phone.
If Scoopon say no, then make a complaint through ACMA. If nothing there, then do a credit card chargeback.
Yes, they won't like a chargeback whatsoever, so do it anyway. :)
ACMA(?) The Australian Communications and Media Authority really won't get involved…
ADMA, http://www.adma.com.au/comply/group-buying-code is worth a go…
Yeah, sorry, ADMA.
Have you tried contacting Scoopon to see what they say? Seems they are not fulfilling the terms of sale. Ask them to put into writing that they will not redeem or refund your money (even email), then contact the consumer authority in your state. If they will not state in writing note the date, time and details of contact, that may be sufficient. You are right $149 is a lot to lose.
A lot of group buying places rely on a clause to the effect of "subject to availability" and then try to claim that as there were no more bookings available you lose your money. IMO that is not correct and that the use of such a clause just means that you cannot force them to accept a booking but if that is the case then you can get your money back.
If Scoopon don't come to the party, go through ADMA and do a chargeback for services not provided.
Seems to me like it's still a valid day to redeem, but seeing that have no capacity it certainly makes the whole thing seems like a complete rort. They could sell 50, redeem only 5, pocket the rest of the cash telling everyone else who calls to take a long hike off a short pier.
I will never buy Scoopons ever. Seems it's becoming a business strategy used by companies who are either going broke, know they are closing, or just like the opportunity to "steal" peoples money using fine print.
Thats the same question i got Sparkles,,, they can sell and tell others "there are no other spots left , sorry your money is gone"
well I did email to scoopon , and to Melbourne aviation as well,,, still no reply from scoop on,, melbourne aviation did,,, mentioning they cannot do any refund.. contact scoop on,, will see what they gonna say now…..
Any word on a positive outcome?
Certainly keep the e-mail reply as evidence for your local consumer affairs state office.
I think you should be right if you contact Scoopon and they will refund you. I believe that Scoopon don't actually pass on the money to the retailer until the validity period expires because of situations just like this. So if Melbourne Aviation renege then they don't get the money and Scoopon just passes it back to you. Probably not as simple as that in reality though…good luck!
Contact scoopon immediately. Let them know if you get a negative response, you'll be complaining to the adma. Complaining to the adma is very easy.
Contact scoopon now.
Cudo has some disclaimed that they will not refund in the last 30 days. I don't see how this could be allowed under consumer law because the business could book everyone in for the last month and then cancel or the business could go out of business. (Yes scoopon is a different company from cudo, I'm just musing on the validity of that condition.)
I am the director of Melbourne Aviation and through this forum I would like to explain our side of the story. Jason29 called on the very last day in the afternoon to make a booking before the 20th of Feb. 6 months back we sold 500 of the vouchers these vouchers needed to be redeemed in 6 months which meant if we did 3 flights a day for 6 months then we will be able to cater all of the customers. We have 4 aircraft's in the fleet doing these flights. We also placed a condition on the vouchers forecasting that if 20% of the people i.e 100 vouchers decide to call on the very last min to make a flight we will be able to book them in from the 1st Feb to the 20th of Feb. In reality over 200 people decided to call us on the very last minute and ask for a booking by the 20th of Febuary. Here we have 4 aircraft's working literally full time to accommodate all these flights. Interestingly, there are some comments on this forum suggesting that we are responsible for this eventuality. Jason had 6 months or 182 days to book this flight in but he decided to do in on the very last day 2 hours before close of business to book it in and now is unhappy at the outcome. We are in business to serve customers and we are highly apologetic that this is the outcome for Jason but in reality we are only contractors to Scoopon and they hold the monies until we redeem a voucher. If we redeem a voucher after the expiry of the coupon we don't actually get paid. From the legal standpoint the voucher has a clause which mentions subject to availability.
So basically, you set up rules, which he did abide by (albeit at an extreme end) and because you didn't take into account a worst place scenario within your rules, he lost ask his money?
You can't blame the customer for doing something which by your own admission was technically within the t&c's.
Prime example of why I wouldn't touch scoupon, or business'who use them, with a ten foot pole.
Firstly, even if you think that Melbourne Aviation deserves some blow-back for the way they handled this I think that it is poor form to neg the guy who comes on here to explain their position on the matter.
Secondly, I was involved with something quite similar. A local restaurant offered Scoopons in June with a 6 month expiry window. That meant that they would be expiring right around Christmas. It was a condition that you had to state you were using the Scoopon when you booked. Well, a large number of Scoopons had gone unused - then everyone wanted to book in right around Christmas. The business only had provided for a certain number of Scoopons to be used at any given time and particularly around Christmas when they were normally very busy they simply could not afford to seat everyone using Scoopons. This, of course, meant that people had valid Scoopons which they could not use before the expiry date. This restaurant decided, as a goodwill gesture, to take the details of the people who called in before the deadline and they would contact them as and when they could fit them in for the new year and give them credit for their Scoopon.
One clever customer called up trying to use their Scoopon and was told the above. They then called back, did not mention they were using a Scoopon, and got a booking no problem. So, they came in, ate their meal, then presented their Scoopon and took off.
This was where I became involved. A colleague of mine was a regular at the restaurant, witnessed the scene and told the owner to give me a call for some advice. I managed to broker a deal between the patron and the restaurant owner which managed to satisfy everyone.
I seriously doubt that most businesses fully understand what they are getting themselves into when they sign up to participate. At the same time, the patron didn't abide by the t&c of the Scoopon - but they certainly felt like they had no choice and that the business was failing to honour its commitment. IMHO there was some fault on both sides.
The point of this rather long story is that I will never buy a Scoopon again and I am pretty sure that the restaurant owner will never participate in Scoopon again. There are just too many of these type of stories going around.That's not the consumers fault at all in that scenario. The way you describe it, the company sold him something, and didn't want to honour it because they could make more money selling to someone else instead.
Did the business ever take into account that most people probably bought it, because they wanted to make a Christmas booking?
How you can even defend the restaurant in that situation completely baffles me. If you called me to discuss that situation and I was the clever customer, I would have promptly told you to fetch off and mind your own business.
If a business does not understand what they are signing up to, the consumer should never pay for it, nor be refused access to what they have paid for.
Also, I didn't neg Melbourne aviation. Begging someone because you disagree with their opinion is idiotic.Modokun - I was not responding to you, I was responding to MA. None of my comments were directed to you, they were directed to the OZBargain community at large.
As for the scenario - there was only ever limited availability for scoopons at any time throughout the year - including (but especially) December. No one ever promised scoopon buyers that they would get a reservation at any time they wanted. The offer was always subject to availability. This was one reason why they had to inform the restaurant at the time of booking.
In that sense it was somewhat like trying to force an airline to accept a stand-by ticket on a fully booked plane (or at least one they expected to fill). There are only a limited number of discount seats available on any given flight.
I had a lot of sympathy for the consumer but there was fault on both sides - as I said.Everyone needs to appreciate that if you buy something that has limited availability then you run a risk that there will be no availability left if you leave it to the last minute. Not understanding the limitations of the agreement you enter into does not make you right. However, scoopons are supposed to be a means of marketing a business to the public, presumably in the hope of building reputation and clientele. All too often this type of scenario arises and it backfires, with a business copping a hiding. Another reason why scoopons can be tricky for businesses too.
There was no "fault on both sides" unless those two sides are scoopon and this plane company.
The consumer has done absolutely nothing to be "at fault". Yet, the consumer is the one that has been blown off by this pane company and is the only one out of pocket.
mmmmm.
is it clearly state 'subject to availability' and 'voucher void if not redeemed by certain date'? if yes, then the company win (am not refering to this case only, but in general).
however the good one should state 'if no desired date available, money will be refunded'. no service/good, no payment!
Not at all. If you tried to redeem it and the company refused to honour the coupon at that point there is a breach of contract. They can only rely on the clause about redeeming by a certain date if you try to book it after said date. The avalability clause is completely separate in that they are under no obligation to book you in if they don't have the capacity.
The customer had nothing to do with setting up the conditions. All this guy did was pay and comply with the conditions. He deserves his money back. Perhaps he should have called earlier and perhaps you should have set up a longer time for the final booking window. For example, must book by 10 January and take flight by 30 April. Let's face it, the business has more control than the customer over things such as deadlines, planes in the air, number of vouchers sold, etc etc-
This is in no way the customers problem. Unless the clause says the booking must be made x hours before close of business on the 1st. Scoopon and MA need to resolve this issue between themselves and either refund the monies, or allow the customer to book at a later date. MA can provide Scoupon with a list of all customer bookings that couldn't be honoured. Since MA hasn't been paid Scoupon ought to just issue a refund. Just seems the common sense thing to do.
But he was allowed to call at that time. There wasn't a rule that said he couldn't. Its also not his fault 199 other customers went with the same option. Actually, seems like a large majority of your customers decided to book at the same time which again, isn't his fault.
He still followed the agreement of redeeming the voucher within the allocated time frame. He didn't contacted after it expired, he made contact while it was still valid.
I failed to see how jason29 did not adhere to the condition you set. Maybe you should have said "the voucher must be redeemed and flight completed by 1 Feb 2013"
From the Scoopon
"ONLY 150 TO SELL! Take The Controls & Learn to Fly an Aeroplane in an Unforgettable Aviation Adventure - From $89! Usually $319!Melbourne Aviation
Was your agreement with Scoopon to sell only 150.
You claim 500 were sold.
Either you had an agreement for 150 which Scoopon breeched or it's false advertising by someone!What the hell? So what if he booked 2 hours before closing. The point is he booked before closing.
I salute you for coming on the forum to explain your point of view, but disagree with it. Jason had 6 months or 182 days to book this flight in, and he did within this time. If you don't have capacity, that is not his problem. You should have redeemed the voucher, and booked for a later date. Problem solved, money earned and reputation intact.
A good way of controlling this in the future is to say have a 6 month period like you have done but require all bookings to be made within 3 months for example. This will give you the ability to stagger bookings that will come with the typical last minute rush.
Hi REP, you couldn't organise something for him on 21st Feb as a good gesture? Come on, he rang you to organise his booking prior the book-by date. You are highly apologetic and yet you didn't seem to care and you have time to post your side of story here. No sir… don't tell me that you can't book him on 21st Feb or any other dates after that because this would look really bad on your company (if not already). By the way do know the 25th of December? The pricing error treason and plot of HVN, don't fall into that kind of image!
Your agreement with Scoopon is none of the customer's business.
Your failure to honour the voucher according to the terms advertised is grounds for a charge back at the very least.
Poor form.
You know how many coupons were sold.
You know how many have been redeemed at any one point.
You should easily be able to plan your business around this eventuality.
Contact scoopon, ask them to extend the coupon expiry date, email customers to let them know with a booking cutoff date and then YOU STILL GET PAID without having unhappy customers or a bad reputation.
From a legal standpoint, you can put whatever terms and conditions you want. How many consumer laws they break is up to you. Going to the extreme, some cases of this "scoopon overselling" craze is borderline fraud.
A person is entitled to book in up until, and including, the last day. Poor forecasting by the business has nothing to do with the terms and conditions agreed to by the customer when purchasing a Scoopon. Unless the Scoopon directly stated that "bookings must be made by xx/xx/2013 (a particular date)", then the customer has complied with the T&C by attempting to book within the timeframe specified. Many businesses do specify a date by which bookings for Scoopons must be made, separate from the Scoopon's validity times. Poor wording of the coupon is also not a matter for the customer. A failure to supply by the business is a breach on their part of the T&C. Most businesses are more than happy to extend the timeframe of Scoopons where they have limited capacity. Most businesses also request the Scoopon number at the time of booking, that is how they are able to claim their funds. "Subject to availability" does not mean that more coupons can be sold than a firm is able to accomodate, there are strict trading laws governing this type of behaviour under State and Commonwealth legislation. Group coupon sites have been known to refund coupons where popularity overrides the business' ability to supply. This normally happens quickly after the closure of the coupon offer where it becomes obvious to the business that it doesn't have sufficient capacity to cope with the large demand a discounted coupon can generate.
Suggestion to Jason29: Contact Scoopon and detail your case. If you have complied with the T&C, there shouldn't be a problem in refunding your money.
Other options are to contact the credit card company (if credit was used, the Consumer Credit legislation relevant to your location will apply)and your state Consumer Affairs agency. If a number of people have had the same issue with the same company a group complaint may be appropriate.
So Melbourne Aviation has now pretty much tarnished their reputation all because they wouldn't honour one voucher. Good job!
Jason
Isn't your argument with scoopon who you paid the $ to.I mean if I give Bill $10 because he says he will get Paul to wash my car but Paul doesn't do it then I go and have an argument with Bill -not Paul.
For there to be a contract there must be payment, in this case you have not paid a cent to Melb Aviation and you have no contract to enforce on them. Your contract is with scoopon so you must see them if there is a problem getting it fulfilled……
Yes but Paul told Bill that he was willing to wash 150 cars, provided he was told when to do it before a specified date. Yes Jason should be arguing with Bill but Paul is also at fault.
Not strictly true. If Bill said he was acting on behalf of Paul and Bill just gets the jobs for Paul and deals with the money side of things, then Bill is acting as Paul's agent. That is the contract is between you and Paul as Paul is the principle. Bill is only an agent.
I haven't looked for a long time but Scoopon used to have something to that effect in their T&Cs that they are just the agent of the companies making the offer.
Especially when there have been contracts with at least FOUR group buy companies.
Both the pane company and Scoopon are responsible. In this instance, I blame the plane company more. They could have sorted something out from the initial call.
I wonder how many poor consumers are out there who were told tough luck and who are just going to wear it. For all we know Melbourne aviation could have been saying too bad so sad since mid January. There is no reason to believe that they started telling consumers this with the OP"s call.
Melbourne aviation appears to have open deals with groupon, cudo and deals.com.au as well.
If they have so much capacity that they can sell through four group buying companies, they should have fit everyone in who called before their deadline.
Certainly Melbourne Aviation have missed the potential of these vouchers.
They knew exactly how many had been sold & at any instant realise the number of callers they should still be expecting.
I presume one of the big features promoted by the sales team at Scoopon to places like Melbourne Aviation would be the massive increase in sales, gaining a big customer database & if you look after the customer plenty of word of mouth referral.
Now they have a really angry customer & plenty of negative discussions about their business.
How easy would it have been to turned this around?
How about "sorry, we have been inundated with voucher claims recently so we are full up for February, but will happily extend the voucher to the end of March (or whatever)if you would like to pick another date."
They still get the money, the customer is really happy they didn't miss out & they can still space out the voucher usage so they don't get too many "cheapie" people using it at the same time!
They might even get a lot of POSITIVE discussion on Ozbargain (and other friends, etc) about what a nice bunch of people they were.http://web1.scoopon.com.au/deals/16731/only-150-to-sell-moor…
clearly states -
Scoopons for this offer are limited…maybe they shouldve looked at it from a business perspective and actually limited thevouchers to an amount that they could cater for.
Poor excuse from Melb Aviation. Subject to availability is understood to apply moreso to dates, rather than GETTING TO USE YOUR VOUCHER WITHIN THE TERMS OF THE VOUCHER ITSELF. They really should know this since it is there term but Scoopon t&c clearly states the following-
13. Bookings and cancellations13.1. All services promoted on the website are offered by providers subject to availability. Some small group or individual “experiences” will require booking in advance. For the redemption of all vouchers, we recommend making bookings as soon as possible once the deal becomes valid. Peak times (such as weekends or holidays) should be booked further in advance. We do not guarantee that services will be available at your preferred date and time.
Do the chargeback thingy on ur cc or paypal and go through scoopon as well. they're slow with their customer service but you're lucky coz you can use this link showing melbourne Avitations response, to get your refund.
see Scoopon terms and conditions for refunds-
15. Scoopon Guarantee - Refunds Policy
http://web1.scoopon.com.au/pages/terms-and-conditionsyou should be fine but it will take some effort.
Melbourne Aviation i think that is very poor form….. your fault not the ops. Boring story also.
In my experience with Scoopon where a cafe did not have availability to honour a lunch deal - I found Scoopon's response prompt and they sided with me and refunded the amount. Their view, like all of ours above, was that if the supplier didn't have capacity and the T&Cs were not breached, the supplier was at fault.
Interesting you got a prompt response from Scoopon. I have an issue I raised with them last Tuesday where money was paid via Paypal, but they didn't give me the Coupon code. I've heard nothing back since reporting it. I can't see any number to call, so I'm about to raise a Paypal dispute if I don't hear nack in next day or two - huge pain.
To make it worse, the coupon they did give me (I bought 2 deals at same time) expired yesterday.. but the online site (Vistaprint) refused to accept the coupon code. Which was extra annoying after you've already prepared all the photos for the printing etc.
I've had generally good experiences with Scoopon and Fabness (nothing has gone wrong from the Scoopon point of view), but think I will avoid them in future with everyone else.
FYI, my story. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1632963
The response from Scoopon was…
"However, if the deal provider has suggested that they do not wish to accept your booking due to having a Scoopon, where availability does exist, we may be able to assist you further.
If this is the case, we are very concerned, and will follow up your feedback urgently. We expect our Scoopon community to receive the same treatment and service as a full paying customer."
My issue was in regards to having availabilities for paying customers, but not scoopon users.
MA can't give this guy a refund simply because they haven't been paid.
You're all blowing up about this and demanding regulatory bodies get involved before he has taken due process to arrange a refund with scoopon. They've taken a bit of time to reply to an email. Give them 48 hours and try again. If you haven't heard anything within another 24-48 hours, do your best to get the company on the phone.
MA have probably learnt a valuable lesson how how people choose to behave with such vouchers, scoopon really need to assist their clients (the companies offering such services) how to manage this as they should know their business.
I've been waiting 144 hours for Scoopon to get back to me for a different deal where they took my money but didn't give me a coupon… do they even have a customer support number? I couldn't spot one on the website - and seems they want you to create a secondary account and password just to be able to monitor your complaints with them.
hey, they dont have a contact number and I waited about 2 weeks for a response but once received they were pretty quick to sort it out in my favour.(got food poisoning from a cafe advertising all you can eat individually cooked main meals and instead serving a limited selection of warm food, bani-marie style for all patrons). I do think you should raise the paypal dispute in the meantime in case unsuccessful but they will get back to you, just a little late is all.
I got a reply to my first issue today, and said they'll refund but may take 5 days. So I'll give it 5 more days to both see refund in my account, and to also see how they sort out another issue (where a code they gave me didn't work, and the provider, Vistaprint, has told me that Scoopon gave me the wrong code - and that have to take up with Scoopon, sigh).
The whole problem is that the Scoopon business model is deeply flawed, and they sucker clients (whether it be charter flights, restaurants or others) into signing up with them not knowing what they're getting themselves into. As described, the conditions are such that if anything goes wrong Scoopon keeps the money.
If anything, people should be complaining to ACCC about these Daily Deal sites (Scoopon, Groupon/Stardeals, Cudo, etc.) because end users are dealing with Scoopon (not the business providing the product/service) and therefore if they are ripping off customers - even though they have terms and conditions - the rights of the consumer rights come first. The only caveat is that we shouldn't be punishing the businesses, because they're just as much a sucker as people like the OP.
Another example: Quickflix "free DVD" promotion. Search for the threads here about how many people haven't received theirs.
These sites are a blight on the digital retail landscape, and should be cursed off the planet before they start putting more people off buying online.
Agreed completely.
We had two consecutive deals with Groupon and we had quite the run-around to get our money back. Merchants either did not ship goods or repeatedly lied about having shipped (and went quiet when asked for proof of shipping).
In the end, we refuse to pay any group buying websites any more. We are done with being ripped off and dealing with dodgy merchants, and the even dodgier group buying websites who hold your money while your bank takes their sweet time doing a charge-back.
I learnt the same lesson in a reaturant deal i bought.
The worst part for me is, when I called, 3 days before the voucher expires, the company was willing to offer a lunch sitting, i decided to confirm my avilablity before accepting, so i said i'd call back.
5 mins later, after my girlfriend said lunch was fine, the company said "actually, we're full" and no longer allowed me to book for lunch, after explaining its that's crap, you've taken my money already, they explained they have no incentive in honoring my voucher so why not just decline my booking.i contacted scoopon at the time, they said, the resturant is well within their rights not to accept, and i've not bought from scoopon again.
the subject to availability clause is basically another way of saying, we'll honour it if we like, if not, you lose, cry somewhere else.
subject to availability just means they aren't legally obligated to honour a booking if there is no availability. It is NOT a right to keep the money. They must refund you if they rely on this clause.
Your right in the legal sense, but in reality what I described is what happens.
This is because you can't prove if someone has availability or not. They can claim to have been booked out by someone, but if the restaurant is empty, they simply had people who didn't turn up. If it's grey, they will exploit.For those who think the vendor is a victim, u might be right that they don't do too well from this, but they signed up for it, and then choose near the end of the deal it's no longer worth honouring, and choose to pull out.
If the can't accommodate you, they can't keep your money, which means your money has to be refunded by the coupon seller.
I bought a restaurant voucher from Scoopon once, and tried to redeem it a month before the expiry date. I was knocked back on the flimsy pretext that the restaurant had burnt down to the ground, a weak excuse given it was supposed to be a bbq and grill place anyway :D I contacted Scoopon who issued me with a refund straight away.
I live very close buy to where such a thing happened (not sure if you referring to same restaurant). The place literally did burn up and interior etc. completely gutted. I think they have only recently opened after many months. They did have a sign though, however, on their window shortly after the fire saying that they intended to honour the scoopons once the place is back up again -> which would be then been past the expiry.
Lesson to take: Not all the time when they say the place has burnt to the ground is a lie :p
Take them to the fair trade industry ombudsman.
I threatened Event Cinemas with this action after not honouring a similar amount. Got the money back within a week in vouchers. Suits me as its my money. Voucher had expired by four days.
also spread the word….. Amazing how negative feedback flows.
This subject is presently being debated in the courts and will soon become law where the consumer is protected supposedly.
Learn your lesson though. Many of theses businesses offering cheap deals are desperate for customers. The number of crap deals in Bali that friends have been sucked into is almost funny…told you so. Pay peanuts, get a freaky chimp
Melbourne Aviation … Poor form….You've done more damage to your company's reputation / image not looking after the complainant rather than bitching over the cost of a TIF…..
Scoopon is the worst. I won’t use them again and have lodged several issues with the dept of fair trading against them. The voucher industry is too competitive for these incompetent muppets to be getting any more of my business.
Group buy supposedly is a win-win-win situation for customer, vendor and the middleman (although mostly the middle man)
The customer got it for bargain, the business got new lead (who hopefully become long term customer) and the middleman profits as conduit. Nothing new here, this is classic referral/affiliate scheme.
Now, what I can see as the problem is that sometimes the business got greedy (or something else) and want more and more sale from Scoopon and the like, only to realize it on the fly how hurtful it become to the bottom line (mainly because there are too many "promotional customer")
When this happen, they will go to "survival mode" trying to squeeze everything possible from the term and condition and everybody is not happy. The business has enter its "bitter mode".
In this specific case, looks like 150 tickets become 500 tickets and Melbourne Aviation feeling the pinch. Imagine if Melbourne Aviation still remember that the goal is to have long term relationship, not only they should be happy that more customer is still making a booking (meaning more potential long term customer), they will cater the OP's booking with smile.
(Redeeming the coupon can be as simple as issuing another "Booking Schedule" or ticket or similar, so they still be paid by Scoopon, but because it's already in "bitter mode" the motivation has evolved to "no, we do not want any more Scoopon customer - which defeat the purpose of the promotion)
Just IMHO….
IMHO it is the middle man that is being greedy too, though shame on you Melbourne Aviation.
If you buy enough vouchers you will know that the refund policies of some of these companies is no questions asked refund or at least full credit whereas Scoopon will argue every grey area in the terms to their advantage.
Remember that Scoopon keeps the money until the business gives them the voucher, so if the business wont accept your voucher it is now Scoopons money unless they agree to refund.
The "subject to availability" is a beauty, Scoopon makes a lot of money from this, I hope they enjoy their money because fair trading is coming for them.
Melbourne Aviation is completely in the wrong here - they are not living up to the terms of the deal. The rep has a really poor excuse imho and it just makes them look shonky.
I had really bad dealings with Scoopon over a restaurant who refused to honour the conditions of the deal. Scoopon sided with the restaurant consistently and refused a refund when requested. Over the next few days I emailed back and forth with a lady from Scoopon who repeatedly refused to give me the details of her supervisor, in the end she said "i will now stop responding to you". So I sent them a letter of intention to sue (minor civil claims court), they refunded me within a day.
For some reason group deal sites don't behave like most businesses and it seems to be an attitude in the industry to not provide customer service to customers or businesses. Honestly if they were more liberal with refunds then they would be a lot more highly regarded.
Considering your story (and your actions) deal almost entirely with Scoopon, how is it the vendor's fault again? Keep in mind that Scoopon would have kept your money even though you couldn't make the booking, not the restaurant.
There are also plenty of anecdotal stories out there about Group Deals sites bullying businesses into committing to higher numbers than they're comfortable selling, using inflated numbers of cancellations, no-shows, etc.
Melbourne Aviation is just another victim, like yourself, like the OP, and like many others who use the Deals sites.
The only victim here is the voucher purchaser. Melbourne aviation is not a victims.
Your comment neglects to consider the reputation damage from dissatisfied voucher clients. Word of mouth travels fast.
And, who, precisely, is in control of damage control in this instance?
It is "Melbourne Aviation".
"Melbourne Aviation" are not victims here. Regardless of bad press. They were the masters of their destiny. They deliberately picked the low road.
They have AT LEAST 3 other deals with 3 OTHER group buy companies open. WTF If a company was legitimately interested in meeting their obligations, I would think they would have a pause and make sure they have performed for all those who bought and claimed within the required time frame.
This is the course they have chosen - to tell customers who have claimed within the requirements to PIZZ OFF. This has not been forced on them. four deals with four companies. Can't exactly be put down to a fast talking, over promising sales rep.
How many have they screwed over that haven't come here to tell their tale??
"Melbourne Aviation" have admitted that the OP claimed within the time frame required and they do not wish to perform.
This is their choice. Not scoopons. Not to poor, innocent voucher purchaser.
I will be regularly checking to see when this issue comes up high in google results.
I suspect it would, if the name "Melbourne Aviation" was less generic.
I note that they are selling gift cards directly. Heaven help anyone who buys those!!!! If you buy a gift card directly from "Melbourne Aviation" and they decide they are too busy to redeem , who is going to help them???????????? No ADMA in that case. No scoopon to maybe refund the money.
BAD BAD BAD FORM "Melbourne Aviation"
Too busy/disinterested to redeem a voucher for a paying customer who claimed WITHIN THE TIME FRAME??? Far out!
Not sure how the consumer is in 'the wrong'. They complied with terms of agreement and booked last day.
"subject to availability" could mean a lot of different things - I would assume that it was you may not get your preferred day/time - but you would get offered an alternative day/time. I wouldn't expect a 'bad luck' 0 no spots at all.
You as a supplier could totally game the system and have 0 availability for spots. Sell 10,000 vouchers, get 12.5%-50% up-front and do nothing because you the supplier has 0 spots subject to availability. There's a bunch of dodgy suppliers wrt to carpet cleaning, etc due to fly-by-night operators… The Melbourne Aviation seemed to have poor planning, rather than get-rich-quick by juicing up up-front cash flow.
The restaurant was in the wrong in my case and melbourne aviation is in the wrong in this case but it doesn't change the fact that scoopon are the ones who took payment and are holding the funds.
Melbourne aviation refused to honour their own terms but at the end of the day the customer paid scoopon so if dealings with melbourne aviation break down it's logical to demand a refund from scoopon as they are the ones that took the customers money and imho they are the ones who should refund if the deal isn't honoured - it should be their responsibility to chase the business for compensation.
For a business perspective, check out this report from ABC's 7:30:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3638138.htmREBECCA BAILLIE: The ACCC is investigating the group buying industry after receiving hundreds of complaints from both consumers and small businesses. Deputy chairman of the commission, Michael Schaper, says while the number of complaints is declining, consumers still say they can't redeem their vouchers and small businesses claim unfair treatment by some online companies.
MICHAEL SCHAPER: They often find that the site is actually offering far more numbers of sales than they ever agreed to in the first place. And that poses real problems for them. Often it means that they can't honour all the commitments and in turn that damages their reputation in the marketplace as well.
The only sympathy I have in this case is the consumers. They paid the money as and got nothing. It was in Melbourne Aviation's control and therefore their CHOICE not to honour this voucher.
How's many other people who bought this voucher also told to go away.
Let's not forget that Melbourne Aviation has sold vouchers we with at least four group buying companies. It seems that they know EXACTLY what they are doing.
You're an OzBargainer through and through (and I mean that as a compliment) - businesses are forever the enemy trying to take your money, and consumers are, for all intents and purposes, blameless (unless they're deliberately trying to be a douche).
I disagree, of course, but I'm sure there's no convincing you.
He said: "The only sympathy I have in this case is the consumers." And then backed up his comments with why.
Still, I'm sure there's no convincing you.
Be that as it may, voteoften is the accuser here, hence the burden of proof lies with him. He is accusing Melbourne Aviation of wrongdoing by not honouring the offer, and has gone so far as to recommend against people using the business directly (and some vague threat involving monitoring search results??)
A business representative has already come and stated his case - they have very real supply constaints. Short of buying or hiring more planes (seriously?) there is no way they can supply the service. It's not a product where they can simply order or manufacture more. They also do not profit from this. SCOOPON is holding the funds and therefore it is up to them to refund money to the customer.
It is simply atrocious to say that Melbourne Aviation should have predicted this when selling the coupons (regardless of how many "daily deals" vendors they went with). Where do you draw the line? Should they have assume that 30%? 50%? 90%? All 500 customers were going to book on the last day and ensure capacity to handle that eventuality? It is just my opinion, but I think a 20% margin for "laggards" is entirely reasonable in ANY business context.
Any other day, an upset customer would be disappointed, get a refund, maybe have a whinge on social media, and that would be that. Instead, here now we have people calling calamity down on a business simply because they made an error in judgement (although one that any reasonable person would have made), made worse by the fact that money is being held ransom by a 3rd party, i.e. Scoopon - why anybody fails to accept their culpability is beyond me…
The issue the rep brought up is that if the vouchers aren't redeemed within the booking period then the company doesn't get paid. So it begs the question, why not take the Scoopon voucher number on the phone which Melb Aviation can redeem with Scoopon immediately. Melb Aviation can then schedule the unforeseen bookings to after the booking period.
Seems like everyone would be happy then (well probably not Scoopon).
wtf? "some vague threat involving monitoring search results" how is that a threat. It is amusing.
And, girl, I am also a female. Stop referring to me as he, ladybug.
edit: already covered
@neil:
I suppose from the customer perspective, solutions that involve getting something outside of the defined boundaries seems both easy and reasonable. From a business perspective however, things can often be a lot less flexible to the point of illogical, e.g. finances not being able to be carried over from month-to-month, etc.I don't care to speculate on Melbourne Aviation's situation suffice to say that they are accusee, not the accuser, and have no obligation to explain themselves beyond what they already have. If they say they can't do it, it should be taken at face value unless the accuser can prove otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
@voteoften:
My apologies regarding the pronouns. It's usually a safe assumption online - guess this is OzBargain we're talking about. Saving money transcends gender :-)As to the topic you find amusing, I have no idea what you meant by "I will be regularly checking to see when this issue comes up high in google results" and assumed that your purpose in doing so must be so that you can follow through by carrying out… something. Otherwise what's the point of saying that at all?
they do it to me too.
I will not buy any deal from Scoopon anymore.
I never have a problem until i cant redeem my coupon at Whole Bite South Melbourne.
Companies advertised on Scoopon are as dodgy as Scoopon itself. They are corrupt.Oh please.. Scoopon isn't at fault because the restaurant refused your voucher. At the time you posted your other thread you hadn't even contacted Scoopon for a refund. I'm not sure how this is 'corrupt'.
I have contacted Scoopon a few times for refund/replacement and I had no dramas at all (until recently). They always respond promptly and are very reasonable. Try contacting Scoopon and tell them the merchant refused to take the booking although its before the last day to book, they will get back to you.
The way vouchers work is that Scoopon will hold on to your money and the merchant redeem those cash when they hand in the printed vouchers to Scoopon. Hence when you dont use it Scoopon will be keeping those cash. So sometimes Scoopon will be happy to refund you to keep you as a long term customer.
I experienced the same tragedy as yours, I bought 2 vouchers, and they just said there is no vacancy, I have tried to contact both scoopon and the company to solve this problem, even I want ask them to refund as credit, but no one can really help, I won't buy anything from scoopon anymore.
And as I remember, Melbourne Aviation said they actually can't get the money since we can't redeem, the scoopon company hold the money.When did you try to make a booking? Melbourne Aviation Director attempts to blame the OP for waiting till the last day (waiting till the last day is not wrong at all).
Same story - contact Scoopon. They are likely to refund. Keep a copy of your e-mail to them and the deal conditions in hard copy format.
have you got refund?
I just got a call from Office of Fair Trading confirming they had spoken to Scoopon about my issue and I have now got a full refund from Scoopon. The guy I spoke to confirmed that my issue was blatant false advertising (use of subject to availability) and hinted that he had a heap more complaints to go through with regards to Scoopon.
So I urge you to go straight to fair trading if Scoopon give you any issues with refunds.
I think it is apalling that we have to resort to the office of fair trading to get refunds that we are legally entitled to.
+1 (x100 if possible!) for informing all of what to do!
Problem seems to stem from perception of what the item being sold actually is. On one side is the buyer, they think they're getting a regular product at a great discount, and should be treated the same as other patrons even though they are a lot less profitable to the business
On the other side is the business, trying to fill the empty slots in the schedule, make a few bucks but nothing they could live on, and maybe get some word of mouth. But if it starts interfering with the bread and butter customers its probably not worth it for them.
In this case they only get payed if they get the scoupon before the expiry date. If they're running at max capacity its unreasonable to expect them to book you, as they won't get paid.
In this case solution is pretty simple. Exchange the scoupon for a business credit note. That way business still gets paid, and scoupon holder can get a flight when there is some free time.
companys like this are grinning and licking their lips when looking at how many people have not redeemed when the expiry is approaching. they expect to pocket the money so its their own greed that caught them out here. if they were genuinly concerned they could have contacted people to follow up on their booking intentions.
the 'too bad' attitude is not acceptable, you follow up with scoopon and the customer to ensure they get the goods/service you promised or arrange a refund.
Understand that the company gets nothing if the coupon is not redeemed, so there is little or no incentive for them not to redeem the coupon. It's Scoopon that keeps the cash. Read some of the other comments in this thread if you don't believe me.
and whats stopping them from saying its redeemed
Good question. I assume that Scoopon has a system in place because the vouchers that you get have a unique code on them. I could be wrong, but it doesn't make intuitive sense because then you have customers unable to redeem coupons approaching Scoopon for a refund (as many have described in this discussion).
Hey Guys,
My name is Mitchell and I'm the new Online & Social Media rep for Scoopon.
If you have any inquiries regarding Scoopon deals, vouchers or orders just let me know and I'll be more than happy to look into it for you.
Alternatively, you can submit a help request directly through our Help Centre by clicking on the following link:
https://helpcentre.scoopon.com.au/home
Thanks
Mitchell - Team Scoopon
Hi Mitchell,
I think you should start a thread on this. There are other deals that I would like to talk about (not problems) unrelated to the Aviation coupon. Probably lots of other people too.
I like the Jupiter's deal but they are getting too expensive, increasing the price each year and decreasing what's in the deal, or putting a show with it, so you can't buy 7 nights.
I also think you need to put more variety into these deals. Now there are so many each day, they last too long and it gets boring logging in to see the same deals each day.
Some deals for the Macarthur area in restaurants would be good too. Thanks for being interested in our comments.
Hey Miss Dior,
Thanks for your comment!
Very good idea - I may just do that :-)
Thanks also for your constructive comments on our deals. We have a dedicated team that work 24/7 to provide our customers with the best quality deals from quality Deal Providers. I will be passing on your aforementioned comments to our Deal Developement team - so watch this space!
We're always interested in our customers' comments. At the end of the day, our customers are central to our business and without them (you included!), our business would cease to exist.
Thanks!
Mitchell - Team Scoopon
I believe this is the link.
Seems like you needed to book before today.