CAS: How We Can Eventually Get The Cheaper Power Tools That We Deserve

besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 11:44
Last edited 23/02/2025 - 12:18

I’ve been researching this topic for an article I'm writing, and I wanted to get your input on the topic. Just a heads-up, I’m wearing my Tux Guevara shirt for this one.

We’re Getting Screwed on Power Tools

The level of profiteering on power tools in Australia is insane, and it's all driven by market control. First, we have the monopolisation of hardware stores by Bunnings, and then we’re locked into closed ecosystems like Ryobi, Ozito, and Makita’s battery systems.

Locking You In

If you invest in a battery ecosystem, you’re stuck. Gone are the days when you would buy any brand of corded power tool without worrying about compatibility. Now, brands like Ryobi entice you with sales on entry-level battery and tool combos, which seem like a great deal at first. But the problem comes when you need to buy additional tools.

Maybe you just need a cheap sander—nothing fancy, just something to get the job done. A cheap Ozito is good enough, but now you're faced with a choice: either buy new Ozito batteries or pay extra for a Ryobi tool to match the batteries you already own.

Ozito Isn’t That Cheap

We often think Ozito is the budget-friendly option, but that’s only because we compare it to higher-end brands like Ryobi, Makita, or DeWalt in Bunnings. In reality, Bunnings slashes the price of Ozito tools by as much as 50% just to compete with ALDI's Ferrex-branded tools, which already make a healthy margin. Bunnings, as the exclusive distributor of Ryobi and Ozito in Australia, holds a firm grip on both the budget and mid-range tool market and is making an absolute killing.

It’s Not Like Other Industries

This isn’t free market competition. It’s anti-competitive behaviour. When buying a smartphone, you can walk into JB HiFi, OfficeWorks, or order from Amazon and buy any number of devices and know it will be compatible with your USB-C chargers. This is real consumer choice and market competition.

The EU put a stop to Apple’s Lightning cables specifically because it was anti-competitive. While I’m not necessarily advocating for top-down regulation, consumers should reject these tactics. There's no reason there can’t be a universal battery standard for power tools—just like we have with AA or AAA batteries. In fact, there is one.

The Solution

Enter CAS (Cordless Alliance System). This is a universal, brand-agnostic system that already allows over 40 brands to share the same 18V battery packs. Unlike proprietary systems that force you into a specific brand, CAS gives you the freedom to mix and match tools across different brands without being locked in. CAS is currently the best example of an open, cross-brand battery platform, and I feel it genuinely deserves our support so that other brands adopt these batteries in the future.

Unfortunately, brands that use CAS batteries, such as Metabo, aren't yet as readily available or affordable in Australia as they don't yet have a foothold here (they're much more popular in Europe). It's interesting that Bunnings sells corded tools from Metabo, but battery tools need to be specially ordered. Total Tools does stock Metabo, and they also appear to have a promotion on at the moment so I may post that as a deal (I have no affiliation with Total Tools).

Hopefully, over time, CAS compatible tools will grow in popularity and come down in price, while other manufacturers adopt the CAS standard. Once they do, they will need to drop their prices across their ranges and not just their "loss leaders" that lock you into their ecosystem. It will also open up competition from stores other than Bunnings.

Of course, Bunnings and the larger tool manufacturers will fight this, but hopefully smaller tool manufacturers see this as an opportunity to shake up the market.

Invest In CAS Batteries Slowly

I'm heavily invested in an ecosystem already, so I'm going to do is begin slowly replacing my existing batteries with CAS batteries. As my existing batteries/tools die, I will buy CAS replacements.

I've also found a lot of CAS-to-Makita, CAS-to-Ryobi, CAS-to-DeWalt, etc (and reverse) adaptors online and will be doing some research on which of these are compatible, safe and reliable. CAS batteries have the BMS built directly into the battery. As these batteries become more popular, there's zero reason why manufacturers couldn't produce their own official adaptors.

I'm also aware that there's 36V, 48V, etc. I know that professionals are usually heavily invested in Makita and will be resistant to changing the tools they rely on to make their living, etc. I'm interested to hear any other obstacles you can think of.

Home & Garden Power Tool

Comments

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 12:00
      +2

      hahaha, love this meme.

      It's a bit different in this case though. None of the competing standards are open to other brands.

      • Hybroid on 23/02/2025 - 12:57

        It’s a bit of a circular argument though. None of the 40-odd CAS-compatible brands seem to exist in Australia, barring a few niche ones, which are more expensive than the Ozito’s you say are already expensive.

        So people aren’t likely to spend more on something that isn’t as-supported nowadays, but might maybe perhaps be in the future. Therefore, those manufacturers won’t see demand and less likely to enter the Australian marketplace fulfilling the less-support fear.

        Not to mention most people have some form of tool and battery system already.

        Hence, there’s yet another competing product line (standard).

        • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 13:11
          +6

          It’s a bit of a circular argument though.

          The problem is a cycle, but the argument isn't circular. The argument proposes breaking the cycle.

          None of the 40-odd CAS-compatible brands seem to exist in Australia, barring a few niche ones, which are more expensive than the Ozito’s you say are already expensive. So people aren’t likely to spend more on something that isn’t as-supported nowadays, but might maybe perhaps be in the future. Therefore, those manufacturers won’t see demand and less likely to enter the Australian marketplace fulfilling the less-support fear. Not to mention most people have some form of tool and battery system already.

          Yes, I did point all of this out in my post. That's why I addressed it with using adaptors as a temporary solution.

          Ultimately, different brands, standards, et cetera disrupt the market all the time, especially when they offer something objectively better. If car manufacturers can do it, I'm sure power tools can.

          Also, \few niche [tool manufacturers] exist out of necessity. Professionals who need these tools will have to buy batteries for them, so they will continue to exist. These people will then be locked into the same cycle. They will already have their CAS batteries out of necessity for these niche tools that Ryobi and Ozito can't fulfil. These professionals aren't then going to go invest in Ryobi.

          As niche tool manufacturers continue to take up CAS batteries, it's almost inevitable in the long-term that there will be a standardised battery.

          Hence, there’s yet another competing product line (standard).

          It is competing, but not inherently. The point of the standard is to be the first open standard, therefore being the first opportunity to break the cycle of competition.

          It's not like USB-A vs mini-USB vs micro-USB vs USB-C, all open standards which were competing with each other. There are no other open standards for CAS to compete with - it's the first one.

          Also, USB-C was ultimately very widely adopted, the competition is largely over for now, and this whole argument has become moot…

        • AdosHouse on 23/02/2025 - 22:11
          +4

          Metabo is CAS. Easy enough to get hold of in Aus. I love my Metabo drill and impact.

    • SanguinarySeraph on 24/02/2025 - 09:45

      Literally thought of this comic as I was reading the OP.

  • life is suffering on 23/02/2025 - 11:59

    How’s the warranty going to be affected?

  • Protractor on 23/02/2025 - 12:02
    +12

    Never mind that 2 Whoppers with cheese over $22!
    FMD
    Cheaper to eat a power tool.

  • stevco123 on 23/02/2025 - 12:51
    -4

    You answered a solution to your problem in the second last paragraph. Adapters. End of story.
    I also wish i could put 13 inch tyres from Mazda onto my BMW X5, but guess what? Won't happen

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 13:01
      +17

      You answered a solution to your problem in the second last paragraph. Adapters. End of story.

      No, for a few reasons, such as:

      • It's annoying to use adaptors. Apple didn't get away saying "just use a USB-C to lightning adaptor" and neither should Ryobi, Makita, etc.
      • It introduces another point of failure
      • Adaptors won't work in all cases as some tools are made to fit certain sizes of batteries
      • Extra cost, etc

      Adaptors are a short term, transitionary solution to this problem.

      I also wish i could put 13 inch tyres from Mazda onto my BMW X5, but guess what? Won't happen

      Because those are completely different things and a false equivalent.

      A more equivalent example would be fuel intake, which Mazda and BMW X5 already share the same standard, hence you can both fill up at AMPOL.

      • Pussqunt on 24/02/2025 - 22:09
        -4

        No, tyres are a perfect analogy as while most tyres can fit with rims, some are just impossible without excessive engineering.

        Fuel is great too, because if you feed diesel to an unleaded, your motor will be as stuffed as if you use a shim adaptor on a 18V tool to use a 36V battery.

        If you really want this to be standard, hit up the IEC 60086 working group. We tend to pick up IEC standards 6 moths to a year after EU harmonisation.

        • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 22:33
          +4

          No, tyres are a perfect analogy as while most tyres can fit with rims, some are just impossible without excessive engineering.

          Imo, tyres would be the equivalent of some sort of necessary attachment for a skin/tool. Different whipper snipper / trimmer cords and blades, for example. Fuel and batteries are both energy sources, so are more comparable in my mind.

          Fuel is great too, because if you feed diesel to an unleaded, your motor will be as stuffed as if you use a shim adaptor on a 18V tool to use a 36V battery.

          Exactly right. All diesel cars can take diesel nozzles and all petrol cars can take all petrol nozzles. There's no locking you into Toyota nozzles for Toyota cars.

          • Pussqunt on 24/02/2025 - 22:49
            -3

            @besttechadvisor: Yeah, no. You are missing the point.

            There is locking in everything, because people are dumb and some things don't work together. Try using a diesel pump in an unleaded. It doesn't fit, because diesel will damage an unleaded motor.

            And rechargable batteries are energy sources in the same way empty fuel tanks are. They're not. Unless you're doing highschool (simplified) science to learn core concepts.

            • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 22:53
              +1

              @Pussqunt:

              some things don't work together

              standardisation

              • Pussqunt on 24/02/2025 - 22:57
                -5

                @besttechadvisor: You want to standardise petrol engines to run diesel? You are asking for the same thing, but with batteries.

                • besttechadvisor on 25/02/2025 - 09:05
                  +2

                  @Pussqunt:

                  You want to standardise petrol engines to run diesel? You are asking for the same thing, but with batteries.

                  No, I am not. I am asking for the standardisation that has already occurred with AA, AAA, D, etc batteries to continue to 18V, 36V, etc batteries.

                  • Pussqunt on 25/02/2025 - 20:07
                    -2

                    @besttechadvisor: CAS 18V batteries appear compatible with CAS 12V, meaning every new 18V battery has the expense of a voltage converter (and slightly more weight). There appears plans to support 36V CAS.

                    These step down circuits waste power when used. Compared to a 12V CAS battery in a 12V tool, I expect the 18V CAS to weigh significantly more for little to no run time gain.

                    It's like modifying a petrol engine to run on diesel too, but now the petrol performance is poor as the car is heavier and less efficient.

    • meong on 24/02/2025 - 09:54
      +2

      i have an ozito garden sprayer that wont work with adapters because the battery mount is in a tight space.

  • Switchblade88 on 23/02/2025 - 13:06
    +3

    Zero point in me buying a CAS battery when I have four different tool skins; none of which are CAS compatible…

    I can 3D print an adapter for like $2 including the cost of cable and crimp connectors. I get the best value Ozito 4Ah battery, and then whatever skin that's currently on sale. That's the OzBargain way!

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 13:13
      +5

      Zero point in me buying a CAS battery when I have four different tool skins; none of which are CAS compatible… I can 3D print an adapter for like $2 including the cost of cable and crimp connectors.

      That's great, but most people don't have that ability, nor should we have to.

      I get the best value Ozito 4Ah battery, and then whatever skin that's currently on sale. That's the OzBargain way!

      Yes, but the Ozito batteries still cost more than they would if they were competing on an open standard like AAA batteries and USB-C cables are.

      • Switchblade88 on 23/02/2025 - 13:24

        Ozito batteries still cost more than they would if they were competing on an open standard

        Ozito was by far the cheapest 4Ah batteries available. For years. If they weren't a loss leader for Bunnings, they would be more expensive on a universal standard.

        • besttechadvisor on 25/02/2025 - 09:09
          +1

          Ozito was by far the cheapest 4Ah batteries available. For years.

          Yeah, they were. Then people got locked in and their prices have begun to go up, hence Ozito has to cut their prices when Ferrex is available.

          they would be more expensive on a universal standard.

          I disagree. I reckon they'd consistently sit somewhere between their regular prices and the prices they drop to in order to compete with Ferrex, who's still making a tidy profit.

  • AustriaBargain on 23/02/2025 - 13:24

    We could start using Chinese power tools. We use the same voltage and Type I connector is the same, and you can get adapters for the other types.

    • tenpercent on 23/02/2025 - 13:30

      Aren't all the power tools Made in China anyway?

      • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 13:35
        +3

        Most of the Metabo tools sold in Europe are made in Germany. I think we most get Chinese made Metabo tools here though. Bosch also makes some stuff in Germany, but not as much.

      • idonotknowwhy on 25/02/2025 - 14:37

        Nope, you can get made in Japan Makita tools but they cost a lot more and are only slightly better.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2025 - 14:06
    -4

    OP, your wall of text is the very example of cannot see the forest for the trees

    No where have you identified the actual underlying reason why the prices of power tools in Australia are high

    Hint: think utes, jet skis and building materials

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 14:14
      +4

      Hint: think utes, jet skis and building materials

      They get stolen and sold on marketplace?

      Seriously though, ecosystem lock-in is a genuine reason for high prices, though obviously not the only reason. Another is when a retailer like Bunnings controls over 2/3rds of the market.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 24/02/2025 - 10:03
        +2

        Another is when a retailer like Bunnings controls over 2/3rds of the market.

        There's your answer

      • photonbuddy on 24/02/2025 - 11:26
        +3

        Another is when a retailer like Bunnings controls over 2/3rds of the market.

        And who's fault is that? Yep … OURS!

        Because we all want the cheapest stuff, we go to the cheapest place, and this forces other options to go out of business, leaving few choices.

      • LFO on 24/02/2025 - 13:40

        Another is when …

        Customers (Australians!) accept to pay whatever the price is.

        And remember the "pay more to get more" misleading mantra.

    • BigTriangle on 24/02/2025 - 10:00

      Are you blaming tradies?

      • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 13:49
        +3

        Blaming tradies for what, exactly? Stealing stuff? No. Propping up Big Jet Ski? Most certainly.

  • boomramada on 23/02/2025 - 14:18

    why not take your argument to the EU, they are good at sorting these things out lol

  • ihbh on 23/02/2025 - 14:33

    Invest In CAS Batteries Slowly

    Why? Are you saving anything on the batteries, or is it the skins you think you're saving on.

    ~$60 for 6Ah

    Vs say Ozito, I've bought 2x 4Ah with charger for not much more and I was given a free 4Ah from my local community because they are so common.

    My ecosystem is Aldi and Ozito - I buy skins on sale/price matching Aldi/Aldi special buy if I need it.

    My bad, I do have Kobalt from Masters days - when the mower was half price - still going strong. I also bought a Katana 36V chainsaw with 2x 4Ah batteries and charger for $120 (that's pretty much the cost of your two 6Ah batteries - yes, it's more than 4) because I needed to cut down a massive tree that my smaller Aldi chainsaw would have struggled with. It paid for itself with that job and there's more to come.

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 14:51
      +2

      Why? Are you saving anything on the batteries, or is it the skins you think you're saving on.

      In the long term, both. In the short term, neither will be cheaper as it will take early adopters in Australia.

      ~$60 for 6Ah Vs say Ozito, I've bought 2x 4Ah with charger for not much more and I was given a free 4Ah from my local community because they are so common.

      Sure, but I'd prefer to pay a bit more per Ah and have a universal battery than be stuck in one system. This will allow you to save more money in the long run, if all skins shared the same batteries, because you'd be able to buy cheap Ozito when for things you don't rely on then quality Makita for things you do rely on.

      It will also introduce more competition into the market generally because you will have new tool manufacturers popping up left and right with the confidence that people will purchase their tools, and without the need to invest in manufacturing batteries for those tools.

      • Pussqunt on 24/02/2025 - 22:34
        -1

        What about 36V or high current tools?

        36V batteries will need to cost more to include high power convertors for 18V batteries.

        36V and high current 18 V tools will need to run off CAS 18V batteries too. To run acceptability at low power, the high power functionality will have to be crippled. This could be added weight, noise or lowered top speeds compared to dedicated 36V or high current draw systems.

        Brands like Milwaukee use two different battery systems for a reason. Heavy industry tradies sware by Milwaukee as these systems best fit their needs.

        If you believe CAS is so good, put your mortgage on the line and become a distributor for brands using CAS. I highly recommend you work on a few other advantages though, because one random branded skin may be cheaper once a month is a hard sell unless you are running regular loss leaders.

        • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 22:41
          +1

          What about 36V or high current tools?

          Standardised 36V batteries as well.

          36V and high current 18 V tools will need to run off CAS 18V batteries too. To run acceptability at low power, the high power functionality will have to be crippled. This could be added weight, noise or lowered top speeds compared to dedicated 36V or high current draw systems.

          I never suggested that we should only be allowed to use 18V batteries.

          Brands like Milwaukee use two different battery systems for a reason. Heavy industry tradies sware by Milwaukee as these systems best fit their needs.

          I'm fully aware. I have 18V and 36V mowing equipment. I also have various other voltages for other applications, such as 12V in my car (oh, hey, look, they were able to standardise 12V car batteries).

          If you believe CAS is so good, put your mortgage on the line and become a distributor for brands using CAS.

          I shouldn't have to put my non-existent mortgage on the line every time I want to support something. Let's not make bad faith arguments…

          • Pussqunt on 24/02/2025 - 22:56

            @besttechadvisor: Wait, what?

            You want a 18V/36V interface, CAS, but you want a new, different interface for 36V?

            Car batteries are not stanadised. You have 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V. Terminals move. You have Ah rating (how much energy they store) and cold cranking amps (how much power they can supply in a motor start). You have lead acid and AGL. You have special batteries for cars with stop start….

            • tastybaklava on 27/02/2025 - 10:26

              @Pussqunt: That's a poor argument with the main failing point being: Yes, there's different terminals but it's a relatively 'open' standard and you have the choice of buying batteries from different vendors.

              You don't have to buy a Toyota battery for a Toyota, a Hyundai battery for a Hyundai, etc.

              • Pussqunt on 28/02/2025 - 06:09

                @tastybaklava: CAS appears to be multi voltage.

                IMO, that's like a car brand spec'ing 48V batteries for both cars and trucks. Their cars are still 12V, so they spec' a voltage converter as part of the battery. Lower voltage users pay more for a bigger, heavier battery and extra circuits.

                Also, OP kept wanting back and for so I simplified my arguments to end this quicker.

  • jj8aus on 23/02/2025 - 14:38
    +9

    Love the passion behind this post. I have been watching what the EU will do. I feel like standardisation around the USB C standard is just the beginning. In time they will go after these tools too… hopefully. Feel like it's the most likely pathway to getting the outcome you are wanting.

  • brendanm on 23/02/2025 - 16:53
    -1

    We get ripped off on everything, this isn't special. Just use an adaptor if you are that upset about it. The universal batteries often don't perform as well as the manufacturer specific ones, especially the high output ones.

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:19
      +3

      The universal batteries often don't perform as well as the manufacturer specific ones

      That's not true of the CAS batteries…

      • brendanm on 23/02/2025 - 18:34
        -4

        Feel free to post links showing them tested against the high output variants, including the newer tabless cells.

        • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 22:40
          +4

          Yes, feel free to show the tests

          • brendanm on 23/02/2025 - 23:10
            -7

            @besttechadvisor: What? I'm wanting you to show the tests, you are the ones that just said that they are as good as the high output batteries from other manufacturers, I assume you have data to back that up?

            • Levils on 24/02/2025 - 08:46
              +13

              @brendanm: I'm not OP, but you clearly made an assertion about performance before they did, and then you asked for test results one way or the other. It's reasonable for OP to put the onus on you.

              • brendanm on 24/02/2025 - 12:34
                -7

                @Levils: Sure, torque test channel on youtube. Also shows the differences just between manufacturers batteries. Not that hard to just ask. Now OP can provide the evidence that these CAS batteries will perform as well as the high output batteries I mentioned.

                Also, you'll notice I specifically said:

                The universal batteries often don't perform as well as the manufacturer specific ones, especially the high output ones

                Making no mention that they all perform worse, I didn't even say that the CAS batters performed worse. I said it was often the case, and as OP has stated that these do perform as well, I was curious to know where he got this information. Though we shouldn't let reading comprehension get in the way of a good time.

                • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 14:54
                  +6

                  @brendanm: As per above, you made the claim, so the onus is on you. Saying "torque test channel on youtube" isn't proving your claim, and you mustn't have checked the videos they did on CAS…

                  OP has stated that these do perform as well, I was curious to know where he got this information

                  Since you're not aware of Metabo's reputation, let's use your source; "torque test channel on youtube". Of the 3 tests I've watched, comparing 10 different popular brands, Metabo tools using CAS batteries ranked second in each test, and ranked 1st overall when averaged (others jumped around rankings from tool to tool).

                  Screenshots:
                  https://sog.gy/notporn/cas1.png
                  https://sog.gy/notporn/cas2.png

                  What makes this particularly ironic is that, contrary to your assertion that "universal batteries often don't perform as well as the manufacturer specific ones", Metabo's HPT line (which requires manufacturer-specific HPT batteries) performed worse than their tools that could use universal CAS batteries.

                  All this said, these tests say a lot more about the tool than the battery. You'd need to find a single tool to test all the batteries on. Too bad batteries are not standardised, so you can't do that.

                    • Reubzy on 24/02/2025 - 17:08
                      +7

                      @brendanm: Imagine being so clueless you demand someone provides sources when you are the one that challenged their point of view….and then once they provide sources still providing no sources yourself…just imagine being this ignorant

                      • brendanm on 05/03/2025 - 08:20
                        -1

                        @Reubzy: If you can engage your brain, I didn't actually challenge them, I said "often universal batteries are worse", I didn't specifically state that this one is. OP then said that these batteries are not like that, with no data to back that up.

  • Free Fall on 23/02/2025 - 17:04

    If you're willing to invest the time, a way around it is buying kits when there are multiple promotions and flogging off unwanted bits. Ie: Combine the redemption offers with the spend x get y $ discount (usually 20%) + discounted gift cards and or Bunnings 10% price beat. Doing this I've built up a very nice Dewalt collection.

  • Clear on 23/02/2025 - 17:33
    +1

    If you invest in a battery ecosystem, you’re stuck

    My Ozito, Ryobi and Makita converters would like to have a word with you.

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:51
      +2

      Do you print them yourself or buy them?

      Still, it'd be so much nicer if we didn't have to do that.

      • Clear on 24/02/2025 - 00:26
        +1

        Purchased. cbf printing them and they weren't expensive.

        • Levils on 24/02/2025 - 08:50
          +2

          Do you recall (or have links to) where you bought them from? Have you found them to be reliable?

  • fantombloo on 23/02/2025 - 17:33
    +2

    Gone are the days when you would buy any brand of corded power tool without worrying about compatibility

    Not true. It's generally all I buy. (I only do battery for drill and impact driver because I use them most frequently in various locations - for anything more occasional or stuck in the same area I won't even think about battery. Everyone's needs are obviously different but I find this general gravitation towards battery a bit silly tbh when electric variants are so much cheaper and portability is not a prime requirement).

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:50
      +1

      Yeah, I go through the same thought process. Generally speaking, though, everything's gravitating towards batteries as you said.

      • fantombloo on 23/02/2025 - 17:58
        +2

        If you don't need it then you don't have to follow. There are lots of options. Get what makes sense for your own situation. (An example is I'm considering a battery operated angle grinder just because I can easily get a smaller one with less power than a standard corded one and it helps me tame my own angle grinder jitters).

    • Bren20 on 24/02/2025 - 15:07
      +1

      Yep, I find it crazy that people buy battery tools by default. In addition to what you've said, battery options are also underpowered compared to corded options, especially at the lower end of the market.

      I do reluctantly have a battery mower, I couldn't find a corded model that had decent specs.

      • Euphemistic on 24/02/2025 - 17:09

        Its true that battery tools arent as powerful in some cases, circular saw is one where the wall spcket just gives more power. Ive found most of the other battery tools i use its better not having the cord. chuck a battery in and go. No need for extension cords or untangling the cord from the other tools in the draw or tripping on cords across the floor.

        I do have enough batteries i can have several tools on the go and charge while still using the tools etc. Its only ryobi, but its good enough for home use.

        • Bren20 on 24/02/2025 - 21:38
          +1

          If I'm going to use a tool once a month then cordless is probably worthwhile. But, so many of my power tools are used once or twice a year, for that case I don't mind getting the cords out.

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:52
      +4

      I wish my arrogance was backed up by privilege.

    • rwps on 23/02/2025 - 18:08
      +9

      I see it very differently, OP is just pointing out a reality we should all recognise - we are being screwed by the current Aus system/monopoloy.
      And is asking for our thoughts on how we can get better ongoing bargains driven through competition.
      To me that is the essence of OzBargain, neither arrogant or privileged.

  • Ocker on 23/02/2025 - 17:42

    " How we can eventually get the cheaper power tools that we deserve"

    Take a trip to China and take a big suitcase

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:48

      OzBargain group buying trip? OzBatteries?

  • pegaxs on 23/02/2025 - 17:52

    Higher end brand like Ryobi? Hahaha… maybe 20 years ago.

    • besttechadvisor on 23/02/2025 - 17:53
      +1

      Higher than Ozito, definitely mid-tier overall.

  • Milkywayss on 23/02/2025 - 18:01
    +3

    Great perspective OP and well written. Ignore the haters on here - they clearly hate USB C and still want a drawer of 14 different cables for each of their devices (you could use an adapter after all)

    • Clear on 23/02/2025 - 18:56
      +1

      I love USB-C and I love my battery adapters.

  • Bolt Upright on 23/02/2025 - 19:11

    I once wrote to Bosch suggesting they make an adapter for cameras and phones, a simple USB socket would be enough. Not interested.

    • Clear on 24/02/2025 - 00:27
      +1

      Like this?

      • Bolt Upright on 24/02/2025 - 10:58

        Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

        I should ask for royalties!

        • Clear on 24/02/2025 - 11:41

          There are a few models and 3rd party ones with USB C and fast charging.

  • 82norm on 24/02/2025 - 08:40
    +2

    Getting universal traction is going to be the biggest obstacle, but if they did it with Apple and their bs lightning cable, then their is hope. I’m all for it.

    BTW. Got an adapter for Dewalt to Makita, works fine, but it’s chunky.

  • StonedWizard on 24/02/2025 - 09:05
    +1

    Another point is there are cheap outlets across Europe and the US for power tools, especially TTI (Ridgid/AEG/Ryobi/Milwaukee).

    Ozito used to be a lot cheaper, but they were bought over by Einhell and whilst prices did go up, so did the quality and availability of a modular eco system.

    Overall, I don’t find basic 18v Ozito and Ryobi tools that expensive, given the quality of them. But more competition and lower prices are always a good thing.

    It’s a shame Woolworths made a mess of Masters, it would’ve been great to have a competitor to Bunnings.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 24/02/2025 - 10:05

    Welcome to Australia. Do cars next.

  • Phoenixzeus on 24/02/2025 - 10:24
    +1

    Your metabo 2x 4aH batteries are twice the price of 2x Ozito 4aH batteries. I think I'll just stick with Ozito batteries and adapters thanks. The Ozito to Ryobi and Makita adapters I've got have been fine.

  • Euphemistic on 24/02/2025 - 10:25
    +1

    Its the 'australia tax' that keeps prices high. Small market, limited competition, plus half decent standards that prevent some of the cheapest rubbish out.

    If it is truly about price, buy or make adaptors if you dont want to stick with one brand. Ive got a couple of makita battery to ryobi tool adaptors. Buy second hand where possible.

    Ultimately, yes, id like to see a standard battery format and tool 'socket' but make sure that it has good battery protection built in. I dont want my house burning down becasue someone cheaped out on a BMS cidcuit.

    Standardising stuff liek this makes sense, but only if it's built safely.

  • JimB on 24/02/2025 - 10:49

    Cordless Alliance System sounds like a great idea. A bit like when Apple moved to USB-C. Whether it will eventuate is another story.

    Manufacturers aren't keen on it because they probably make as much money on the batteries as do they the skins so want to lock you into their ecosystem.

    Having said that, I don't find cordless powertools that expensive. Yes, you're locked in but I don't think they are that expensive in the overall scheme of things compared to the old days pre-cordless days.

    Well, with the exception of Festool.

  • pegasusx on 24/02/2025 - 11:02

    Not sure about CAS battery. Bosch had something similar for a while now AMPShare. But dont see much brands other than Fien in Aus.

    I am on the Bosch mainly for the quality of the batteries, 10 years on and my original Coolpack ones are still going strong < 10% loss. I have the new ProCore ones and havent missed a beat.

    • skillet on 24/02/2025 - 11:28
      +1

      If you open up Bosch battery packs you find nothing not even BMS. It's just a small voltage to LED level converter board and a temperature sensor. It's amazing because Bosch assemble battery packs with factory matched cells instead of some random cells from the lot.

  • Rahonui on 24/02/2025 - 11:09
    +1

    Haha, please give us a link to the article when you're done. Not really sure what angle you're coming from here, so I'mkind of interested to read the article. You kind of lost a bit of credibility by referring to Ryobi, Makita and Dewalt being high end.

    CAS has been around for a while now, and Bosch has entered into their own agreement with some other manufacturers in recenttimes as well. Metabo is readily available in many places other than bunnings. The biggest issue you would have with them is range. They are excellent tools, with a strong focus on metal work. Most tool companies that are a part of the alliance are specialists, and wont do much good for the average consumer. The closest you would get is metabo, who have some general construction tools, as well as a pretty decent gardening range.

    There is a heap of shops out there that will allow you to buy tools and supplies of superior quality and for a similar price to bunnings. Rather than try to lobby anything, if you truly want to make a change, you need to shop elsewhere.

    • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 16:56
      +1

      Haha, please give us a link to the article when you're done. Not really sure what angle you're coming from here, so I'mkind of interested to read the article. You kind of lost a bit of credibility by referring to Ryobi, Makita and Dewalt being high end.

      I was a bit fast and loose with my words. I meant to say "higher end". Ryobi is definitely mid-tier overall, but it's higher end than Ozito/Einhell. Dewalt is on the high end of the consumer market.

      CAS has been around for a while now, and Bosch has entered into their own agreement with some other manufacturers in recenttimes as well. Metabo is readily available in many places other than bunnings. The biggest issue you would have with them is range. They are excellent tools, with a strong focus on metal work. Most tool companies that are a part of the alliance are specialists, and wont do much good for the average consumer. The closest you would get is metabo, who have some general construction tools, as well as a pretty decent gardening range.

      All true, except I'd say the range is fine, it's just all high quality, so you're going to pay for that. In fact, I'd say that range is probably the best. CAS claims they sell >400 tools, while Makita claims >300 and Ryobi claims >200. Metabo alone claims >150.

      Like you said, some CAS tools will be specialist, but I doubt it's more than 1 in 4, especially since 3/8 is already Metabo. + all we need is one cheaper, generic brand (like Katana, or even Ferrex) and CAS will totally disrupt the market.

      There is a heap of shops out there that will allow you to buy tools and supplies of superior quality and for a similar price to bunnings. Rather than try to lobby anything, if you truly want to make a change, you need to shop elsewhere.

      100% true. I don't really want to lobby any organisations; I'm just bringing attention to the issue so people are a bit more aware of their choices. I already "shop elsewhere" in general. Yano, buy produce from the local fruit and veg shop, fuel from franchise owners instead of chains, etc.

  • photonbuddy on 24/02/2025 - 11:37

    We have a couple of the AEG 58v tools, and they have just canned them. There's been a bit of discussion on the Whirlpool thread. It blows that when one component of this ecosystem fails, we're screwed unless we want to buy used equipment.

    The truth is, locking people into an ecosystem is good for business. Why on earth would any manufacturer want the ability for a customer to buy a competitors products so easily?

    • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 13:36
      +1

      100% right. That's why we need to back businesses who do the right thing. It'll be better for consumers in the long run.

      • photonbuddy on 24/02/2025 - 13:52

        That's why we need to back businesses who do the right thing.

        Sadly, a lot of companies with this sort of ethos tend not to last. This sort of ethos tends to put prices up, not down, and people eventually go elsewhere for cheaper prices. We're all guilty of this.

        It'll be better for consumers in the long run.

        I'm not so sure. Batteries, like ink cartridges, are a big slice of profits for these companies. I think you would find the whole idea of skins would slowly vanish, as companies realise they must make their profits of that initial sale, rather than getting additional sales via batteries and chargers.

        • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 15:37

          Sadly, a lot of companies with this sort of ethos tend not to last.

          Only if a good ethos is their only differentiator. People will pick value over ethos. Luckily, I think there's lots of value in the CAS alliance. Lots of very specific tools that you can't find with other batteries, very high build quality (Metabo, Fischer, etc), and the universality of the batteries are all value propositions.

          I'm not so sure. Batteries, like ink cartridges, are a big slice of profits for these companies. I think you would find the whole idea of skins would slowly vanish, as companies realise they must make their profits of that initial sale, rather than getting additional sales via batteries and chargers.

          Big corps will definitely try and make money wherever they can. Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for a skin if it means I can use it with a universal battery. I don't think that would be what happens, though. I think smaller tool manufacturers would see it as an opportunity to disrupt the market.

          Skins vanish how?

          • photonbuddy on 24/02/2025 - 20:28

            @besttechadvisor:

            Only if a good ethos is their only differentiator

            It won't be. They'll also be more expensive to make up the potential losses from reduced sales.

            very high build quality

            Equals higher prices.

            I think smaller tool manufacturers would see it as an opportunity to disrupt the market.

            Really? Those that know buy Ozito stuff. Others scoff at the name and yell "Cheap rubbish" from the mountains. It takes a very long time to climb out of the "cheap Chinese junk" catagory, and make into tradies tool chests.

            Skins vanish how?

            I already answered that …

            Why would any manufacturer sign-up to selling a skin and then no repeat business, as the consumer would buy the skin on special that week from a competitor every time they needed a new skin.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2025 - 13:27

    Corded tools are underrated for the home user. Better for the environment and the hip pocket. It’s sad to see our once frugal nation turned into such a wasteful place.

    • eddyah on 24/02/2025 - 13:31

      How's that corded phone going for you?

      Oh you've got a mobile phone? Well aren't you a hypocrite!

      • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2025 - 14:32

        I have an iPhone 12 Corded Edition. It works for me just fine.

    • besttechadvisor on 24/02/2025 - 13:38
      +3

      Yeah, I still have plenty of corded tools (large vacuum, circular saw, etc), but some tools are far better cordless (lawn mower, drill, etc). Obviously very dependent on use case.

      At the end of the day, we should have the ability to choose.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2025 - 17:45

        You do. Go spend your money somewhere else.

    • Euphemistic on 24/02/2025 - 17:17

      Im not sure that 240v tools are 'better for the environment'. Its the batteries that are less 'environmentally friendly'. If youve got the battieres, then adding more skins is not less environmentally friendly.

      I havent used my corded hammer drill for years. The cordless one does the job without having to find a mearby power point or run an extension lead. Was working under the car yesterday and had two lights, a ratchet driver and an impact and never had to worry about running over the cord on the creeper.

      Still, to each their own. All good if you like corded. I find battery better.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2025 - 17:43

        You think cordless is better for the planet because you can’t be assed grabbing an extension cord. Genius.

        • Euphemistic on 24/02/2025 - 20:45

          No. I said if you have the batteries, getting another skin is no different to buying a corded item. Although the cordless may use less copper because it doesn't have a lead.

          The second paragraph was not meant to be related to the environmental aspect, but to useability.

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