Like everybody in Australia, I'm sick to the core after learning of the gross incompetence that occurred at Northern Beaches Hospital.
To learn that a mother who did everything they could to advocate for their baby and still be ignored greatly distresses me. I've got a little one myself and this worries me it happened right here in Australia.
The thing that confuses me is that I've just learnt NBH is both private/public?
Would this tragedy have happened if this was a solely public hospital?
It would not happen in Commi Cuba.
ROFLMFAO!!!
Would this tragedy have happened if this was a solely public hospital?
An entirely speculative question, but of course there are any number of "adverse outcomes" that have been documented across hospitals in NSW and across the country.
While I can't comment on the specifics of the case, it seems highly speculative to suggest that a specific outcome is as a result of the ownership model.
Yes I know it’s speculative but I can’t fathom how a mother pacing up and down the hallways with a dying child could have simply been ignored by everyone.
As someone who has spent some time in hospitals for various reasons over the years, this doesn't surprise me at all. I don't know that the ownership has anything to do with it.
Yes I know it’s speculative but I can’t fathom how a mother pacing up and down the hallways with a dying child could have simply been ignored by everyone.
That's what mothers do.
Hospitals are chockers full of people doing exactly that. Everyone is "dying" and there is a limited number of beds. The triage process is supposed to identify the cases needing attention first. It's not unusual for patients to wait hours for treatment after triage. During that time, conditions can worsen. Patients are encouraged to notify staff if they have concerns. Of course, "everybody" has concerns. Regardless, it seems there were medical errors made here. Until more resources are available to treat arriving patients these pressures and errors will continue. People are not machines and don't operate well in high stress situations for long periods of time.
It's about time that government to have the balls to say "we don't care about votes, were going to spend what it takes to fix this".
Dutton and his mates will do the exact opposite of that.
Would this tragedy have happened if this was a solely public hospital?
Yes it does and always will.
LNP made a two tiered medical system following American model, get American healthcare.
There is a flaw in every system. Google the swiss cheese model by James Reason. People and systems f**k up on occasion with really bad consequences. To err is human.
Hilarious that you would use that as an example given that the private-operated contractor was at fault there, not the hospital.
You've proven that private-contracting is exactly the problem as OP alludes 🤣
private-contracting is exactly the problem
Self own there sheamas, it is a public run hospital, a public administered hospital.
Do you think the government and health departments have gas fitters and plumbers for fitting out hospitals?
Sorry mate, this was the best example you could come up with but completey flubbed it. Private contractor was found responsible by the court, end of story.
Hilarious that you would use that as an example given that the private-operated contractor was at fault there, not the hospital.
You've proven that private-contracting is exactly the problem as OP alludes 🤣
Do you think every hospital should use it's own truck and driver to transport and connect the gas bottles? How about the chemo therapy drug to make sure patients aren't given Naltrexone or Valium?
From the link. Baby John Ghanem lived for just one hour after birth, given nitrous oxide instead of oxygen during resuscitation in 2016.
Amelia Khan was left with severe brain injuries in similar circumstances a month earlier.
Have you asked yourself why the hospital didn't didn't check the lines?
People make mistakes. No one is perfect. Not even you.
Do you think every hospital should use it's own truck and driver to transport and connect the gas bottles? How about the chemo therapy drug to make sure patients aren't given Naltrexone or Valium?
You seemed to missed the point, no where did I intend to imply that hospitals should do everything in house. I was pointing out how silly it is to use an example of a "public hospital fail" when in actually it was the private company who (profanity) up. This was the best example they could come up with, and instead completely flubbed the point.
Have you asked yourself why the hospital didn't didn't check the lines?
Multiple checks are a good idea when peoples lives are on the line, but its unrealistic to expect a hospital to check every product that comes in themselves especially when the provider explicitly signed-off that they had tested it.
OP, Please have your anxiety treated. There is zero benefit to catastrophising uncommon events as being the norm.It harms you, your family and your kids.There is nothing to be gained by a random online discussion either. There are appropriate channels and institutions you can and should be using. IF you really care.
Tl;DR:
the public shouldn't have public conversations about things that concern the public. Let the authoritays and eggsperts have the discussions for you. PS. Your concern is probably fake.
It happens everywhere.Nowhere and no-one is safe.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-21/school-student-critic…
PANIC!!
Oh and start a Change .Org petition
A falling tree branch critically injuring a child who then almost immediately received first aid and was whisked away to the nearest hospital for appropriate treatment isn't quite the same thing as a seriously ill toddler not being triaged at a fascist (“public-private partnership”) run hospital and then dying because of delayed treatment. Maybe the boy's mum should have broken his arm with a tree branch to fast track his triage. Or maybe we can just not do fascism in this country.
You do realize medical errors are second highest cause of death in Australia?
You can see the numbers here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1117772/
Thus medical error is ubiquitous and the costs are substantial. In Australia medical error results in as many as 18 000 unnecessary deaths, and more than 50 000 patients become disabled each year.
Now include the data from here: https://www.canstar.com.au/life-insurance/leading-causes-of-…
Heart Disease: 18,643
Medical Errors: 18,000
Dementia: 17,106
More likely to die because of a doctor than because of covid. Interesting.
That BMJ article was debunked several times in recent years, for example https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/m…
Yeah, it's not in the medical systems interest at all to "debunk" the findings !!
Why is extrapolation and false models good enough for you to get a jab from COVID fear, but not with medical deaths ;)
Do you realise you are talking nonsense.
You are quoting a 30 year old study. Do18,000 die every year from medical errors in OZ? Is it over 20 years, 30 years? As for claiming 50,000 become disabled each year is pie in the sky stuff without credible current evidence.
Something tells me you are bonkers.
It is unreasonable to expect doctors to always get it right. Medicine doesn't work like that. It is not an exact science. It is an exercise of expert judgement in situations which are often very unclear, and could be the result of a lot of things. Doctors have to look at the most likely cause of the symptoms, then work from there. Quite often they don't get to what the real cause of the symptoms before you either die of it, or get over it yourself.
I say this as a person who on wednesday had a conversation with my GP that she described as "confronting". After I told her that in the 6 years I'd been seeing her she hadn't actually helped me once. She had given me disasterously wrong advice on two occasions. She had given up trying to come up with any diagnosis on a number of occasions. And for all the rest her diagnosis and advice had resulted in me getting medication that had side effects that were worse the condition they were supposed to treat. Asked why I continued to see her I said my experience with other doctors wasn't any better, and, anyway, all the rest of the GP practices in the area have closed their books to new patients.
Most doctors try to do their best. Unfortunately that's all you can expect from them.
and the last thing they need is another social media lynch mob disrupting their lives, ( working and home.) based on inflammatory content filled with baseless innuendo and speculation.Also the mother and child and extended family in this case deserve better than do gooder vigilantism hijacking their grief..
the point is the child was denied access to a doctor by the triage nurse
It is unreasonable to expect doctors to always get it right. Medicine doesn't work like that. It is not an exact science.
BTW you have to Take this very safe and very effective brand new vaccine or lose your job…..
15 days to slow the spread BTW
This situation isn't about doctors not getting it right. It's about a fascist hospital (“public-private partnership”) not even triaging the critically ill boy early enough who died after waiting 3 hours while his mum frantically tried to get help.
Jesus. Bulk bill?
the triage person is obviously incompetent and didnt follow guidelines
the triage person is obviously incompetent and didnt follow guidelines
If I ever need a clairvoyant know I know who to call.
The health system is borked. It'll take some all seeing AI with cameras and microphones everywhere to clean up public health. There will be nothing left for corrupt public employees to cover up.
This comment is so divorced from the work people I know working in public hospitals are doing I don't know where to begin.
What corruption is a nurse or a registrar engaging in that AI would 'clean up'?
Are you saying that they would object to an AI observing everything they do?
I certainly would object to monitoring all of my own activities. Wishing to avoid constant monitoring isn't corruption.
@mskeggs: You'd object to such an AI monitoring system even if it was proven to improve patient outcomes and lower malpractice?
@AustriaBargain: Not at all, and I hope you would agree to having a witchdoctor stationed in the waiting room if it was proven to improve patient outcomes and lower malpractice.
I think the idea that constant monitoring by a magic AI or a witchdoctor are both unlikely to improve outcomes, but there are many more people currently willing to believe the AI story because they keep getting gulled by the hucksters, what Le the witchdoctors don't have techbros to spin their tales.
@mskeggs: I think when an AI has monitored everything, every interaction between health staff and patients, between health staff, between health staff and health department workers, that magically corruption will drop. People will be forced to own up to their mistakes.
@AustriaBargain: We can see how body cams on police officers have eliminated errors from that profession.
@mskeggs: This study https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/009385481666821… found that police worn body cams reduces police non-compliances with procedures and lowered complaints against police behaviour by 93%. The study author called this effect of police and the public being observed by a visible camera as “contagious accountability”.
Now I bet some in the public service would be scared of contagious accountability, if they've been used to being unaccountable all this time. Someone from the health minister's office calls you and says they want you to handle something in a certain way..
@AustriaBargain: I'm still not clear on what you think is happening that an AI or other monitoring would prevent?
I'm pleased cop cameras have reduced complaints in that study. It didn't say the cameras eliminated errors.
Or are you saying medical staff are deliberately treating patients incorrectly?
I guess I don't know what you mean when you say the health system is "borked" and how monitoring would reverse that.
The health system is borked. It'll take some all seeing AI with cameras and microphones everywhere to clean up public health. There will be nothing left for corrupt public employees to cover up.
To much green stuff today hey.
The triage nurse has since left the hospital and is now working elsewhere.
Would this tragedy have happened if this was a solely public hospital?
Definitely…
The thing that confuses me is that I've just learnt NBH is both private/public?
The thing that should have bothered you is that there are many other incidents that have plagued this hospital.
An elderly neighbour had a stay there. I don't know why when he had access to much closer and better reputation hospitals. I didn't get to ask him what it was like as he was on his way out.
From my experience, the outcome could have been better if it was escalated by the staff. We've had a terrible experience with the paediatric team at john hunter hospital but a great one with the children's hospital in Sydney
There are is only so much equipment.
This effectively dictates how many patients an ER doctor can see and how many nurses able to triage which people to which doctors and which equipment.
Could well be a case where ED was overwhelmed with a bunch of similar emergency situations of similar type, all requiring access to the same doctors and equipment.
Someone may have had to wait simply because there were five people worse off than you in front of you who also needed those resources.
Could even be that you're too far gone to redirect resources to you when redirecting them to someone in a better situation with likely a better outcome gets the resourses first.
It's not always first in or even most in need, most commonly, resources are usually directed to the patient most likely to obtain the best benefit from the resources/treatment.
Who can say if any specific thing would have happened, but the local community has had years of problems with services etc. there.
The private/public model is a failed model IMO before that poor kid.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/a-two-year-old-died-at-t…
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/on-the-floor-of-a-sydney…
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/no-more-public-private-h…