Someone Please Explain Age Pension

Aerith-Waifu on 19/02/2025 - 08:19

From 20 September 2024, the full pension is available, under the assets test, for homeowner singles whose assessable assets are under $314,000 – for homeowner couples the number is $470,000. The numbers for non-homeowners are $566,000 and $722,000 respectively.

Once assessable assets exceed the lower threshold, the pension reduces by $3 fortnight for each $1000 by which assessable assets exceed the lower threshold.

A single homeowner can have up to $695,500 of assessable assets and receive a part pension – for a single non-homeowner the higher threshold is $947,500. For a couple, the higher threshold to $1,045,500 for a homeowner and $1,297,500 for a non-homeowner.

Please note: Calculated answers include all supplements and if calculated for a couple is the joint pension. It is also assumed that both parties are of pensionable age.

So what is assessable assets? Is a PPOR an assessable assets?

For example 1: A is single and retiring he has PPOR worth $750k, small super of $150k with no other income or savings, $150k is all he has. Does that mean he is not eligible for the pension or even part pension until his $150k is gone?

What about example 2: B is single retiring with PPOR worth $500k, no SUPER, saving of $100k. Then he is able to get part pension?

Education & Work

Comments

      • AustriaBargain on 19/02/2025 - 15:13
        +1

        These people will rent rooms to their kids in their mansions, so their kids can afford to pay the meagre upkeep costs while also paying off their investment properties. I've a mate who owns investment properties and he decided he had enough of living with his parents, cramping his style, and actually decided to live in one of his properties before he dies.

        • boomramada on 19/02/2025 - 15:19
          +1

          I would just down size to $1m property and live off $2m than the pension lol

      • jackofspade on 19/02/2025 - 16:18
        +1

        You can get a reverse mortgage to drawdown on the equity and still get the pension

        • boomramada on 19/02/2025 - 21:54

          Better if you don't have kids or they will disown you :P

    • Protractor on 19/02/2025 - 20:33
      +2

      Should always have been means tested with an upper limit on the PPOR cutoff at a limited value, IMHO. Fancy being able to live in a veritable castle and milk the system.

      • Aerith-Waifu on 20/02/2025 - 04:29

        but one can argue they cant make income with the PPOR

        • tenpercent on 20/02/2025 - 07:12
          +3

          Reverse mortgage can give you a cash flow stream if you really really really don't want to downsize.

        • Protractor on 20/02/2025 - 09:56
          -1

          Who's the one you keep talking about? Are you peerage or something?

  • kmwa on 19/02/2025 - 15:12
    +1

    Even if you are uber-rich, and have assets which exclude you from getting a pension, it is worth applying to Centrelink.
    You won't get a pension, but you will get an Age Pensioner Concession Card, which will get you cheap scripts and bulk-billing and many other benefits.

    • sumyungguy on 19/02/2025 - 15:22
      +1

      I thought one needs to be receiving a pension or other eligible payment to get a pensioner concession card?

      • barbarella on 19/02/2025 - 18:46

        no

        • sumyungguy on 19/02/2025 - 18:48

          Does someone sell fakes?

          • V2L on 21/02/2025 - 08:55

            @sumyungguy: a lot of people confuse the seniors card with pensioners concession

      • Protractor on 19/02/2025 - 20:30
        +1

        Now you can see why one would choose Straya as a migrant destination.
        If a person is an abled person, the aged pension & concession should be based on the number of years of employment here.
        Starting at a minimum of 10 years residency & employment

        • tenpercent on 20/02/2025 - 07:17

          Do elderly parents of new arrivals (reunification visa) need to wait at the moment?

          Centrelink's Payment finder tell me that a 69 year old permanent resident and their 69 year old partner who both recently arrived in Australia are eligible for age pension.

          Don't forget to pay your taxes. There's more elderly arrivals to pay for who haven't contributed anything to Australia's economy, tax base, or society.

          • Crow K on 26/02/2025 - 13:31

            @tenpercent:

            Centrelink's Payment finder tell me that a 69 year old permanent resident and their 69 year old partner who both recently arrived in Australia are eligible for age pension.

            I wonder how someone who "recently arrived" in Australia suddenly became a permanent resident.

            Did the dog whistle come with any supporting explanations or instructions?

            • tenpercent on 26/02/2025 - 14:57

              @Crow K: Don't believe me, try yourself… https://www.centrelink.gov.au/apps/clkonline_cof/payment-ser…

              • Crow K on 27/02/2025 - 09:10

                @tenpercent: Thanks, but all the links I've found says it takes 4 years to get permanent residency?

                What examples do you have of people who "recently arrived" getting permanent residency?

                • tenpercent on 27/02/2025 - 19:58
                  +1

                  @Crow K: You're very focussed on the "permanent residency" aspect. BTW, it's only 2 years wait before be able to get the permanent contributory aged parent visa.

                  I just tried it again and this time did not say I was a permanent resident.

                  Ceno now says the hypothetical I (a 69 year old married to another 69 year old, retired, paying $700 pw rent and earning under $1500 per fortnight and recently arrived in Australia) am eligible for a mysterious payment called Status Resolution Support Services Payment (which may also include Rent Assistance in addition), also eligible for Medicare safety net, and Low Income Healthcare Card (access to HEAVILY subsidised medications and access to additional health services the rest of the public has to pay for out of pocket or via health insurance).

                  Combine this with all the loopholes I referred to earlier and it is quite obvious our government is pissing away taxpayer money on new arrivals who will never contribute to wider Australia either economically or otherwise.

                  • Crow K on 27/02/2025 - 21:32

                    @tenpercent:

                    You're very focussed on the "permanent residency" aspect.

                    I mean, I feel like it's something you said? Given we both know it takes everyone a minimum of four years residency here to be eligible for permanent residency, it just felt like a bit of a disingenuous start to your "look at all the benefits the forrins get at the drop of a hat" little One Nation speech?

                    If you want to make stuff up to get mad about, why don't you go for bigger lies like "JB Hifi meets the illegals at the processing center and gives them government funded flat screen TVs"?

                    • tenpercent on 28/02/2025 - 09:10

                      @Crow K:

                      it takes everyone a minimum of four years residency here to be eligible for permanent residency

                      Assuming that's true (it's not entirely, there's plenty of loopholes and shortcuts and it's only 2 years wait to get the contributory aged parent permanent visa), if it were true for aged parents after being in Australia for say 4 years, not paying any taxes apart from incidental GST and fuel excise because they are not working, after receiving Status Resolution Support Services Payment plus Rent Assistance plus Medicare safety net plus Low Income Healthcare Card during that time, you think it's all good a-okay for Australian taxpayers to fork out for aged pension and a host of other payments and benefits? That's a triple-A plus plus plus good use of Australian taxpayers' money in your mind? Really?

                      If you want to make stuff up

                      BS strawman nonsense. Nothing I have said has been a lie. I literally linked to all the information and the Centrelink Payment Finder tool for you to test yourself. Please test the payment finder tool and then tell me the results you get. I explained two different ways (permanent resident and non-permanent resident) recent arrivals get quick access to Australia's welfare system and the tax payers' purse. And I told you exactly how to replicate the results in the Centrelink Payment Finder tool.

                      If you want to give your hard earned money away straight from your pocket or bank account to strangers who have not contributed to, have no loyalty towards, and no affection for our country, you are welcome to do it, but don't go advocating for (and not expecting any disagreement with) the wasting of mine and everyone else's tax dollars for the misguided white guilt pity party in your head.

                      • Crow K on 28/02/2025 - 11:24

                        @tenpercent: Your path to happiness is just being basic and hating the forrins with your full chest, this word salad of half truths and "here's some incredibly specific circumstances that mean I might not have been lying" is doing a disservice to your energy.

                        You aren't going to get the gold star for a concise, intelligent remark on this subject (or perhaps any subject, from what I've seen).

                        This "why should my tax dollars go to people I haven't personally vetted and approved of" stuff is a simpleton grievance. You aren't The Guy Who Decides, and no pissing and moaning is going to get that position.

                        Choose happiness, vote One Nation, embarrass your family on Facebook and be the uncle at Christmas no one wants to sit next to.

                        • tenpercent on 28/02/2025 - 14:05

                          @Crow K: Strawman

                          hating the forrins

                          Disinformation

                          some incredibly specific circumstances that mean I might not have been lying

                          Ad hominem

                          simpleton grievance

                          Disinformation

                          why should my tax dollars go to people I haven't personally vetted and approved of

                          I notice you haven't once formed a cogent rebuttal or said anything like "well actually when you said X that's wrong because Y and here's the proof".

                          And thanks for assuming my personal pronouns.

                          you aren't the guy

                          But actually I am one of the people who do decide since I'm a citizen with voting rights in Australia.

                          You can vote for no strings attached open borders and unfettered access to Australia's taxpayers money via our welfare system, but I and others will advocate for and vote for something better. How's that sad boomer white guilt pity party going?

                          Assuming my pronouns again…

                          be the uncle

                          • Crow K on 28/02/2025 - 14:48

                            @tenpercent: Pasting the responses in before the things you're responding to, calling words like "guy" and "uncle" pronouns, dishes out assumptions about people's behavior (pity party nonsense) but can't take it in return, inability to use words like "disinformation" correctly..

                            Starting the Friday beers a bit early are we, mate?

            • tenpercent on 26/02/2025 - 15:18

              @Crow K: Normally only 2 or 4 years wait once you set foot on Australian soil to get access to Ceno. I.e. you don't even have to pay into the system to milk it for all its worth. And you can cut that waiting time down with so many loopholes so big you could get a dog the size of an Indian elephant to do jumping tricks through it.

    • miwahni on 19/02/2025 - 23:03
      +3

      The Commonwealth Seniors Health card is available to 67+ singles earning up to $99k and couples $158k, and gives you a discount of 75% on prescription medicines and a lower Medicare safety net threshold. And if you live in WA, SA or NSW there are extra perks that come with it in the form of various govt discounts. Even if you don't need to fall back on an aged pension to survive, you may still qualify for this card.

    • Purp on 21/02/2025 - 07:52

      No you will not get a pension card if you aren't eligible for a pension payment. If you meet eligibility you may be able to receive a Commonwealth seniors health card which is similar. Nsw provides 1 rebate for cshc holders in the form of a seniors energy rebate 250 payment once per financial year

  • loropy9 on 19/02/2025 - 17:46
    +1

    Age pension in Oz is not a pension like in most other countries. It is a social welfare payment. The system simply rewards people who have little and penalises people who have a lot at retirement age.

    • Jolakot on 19/02/2025 - 23:49
      +3

      No, it rewards those who have little and those who are wealthy enough to hire a tax planner to sequester their assets. The middle is screwed.

    • tenpercent on 20/02/2025 - 07:17
      -1

      Does it penalise? Do you get taxed more? Do they take something off you?

      • loropy9 on 20/02/2025 - 11:11
        +1

        Yes, I do get taxed more.

      • BobLim on 23/02/2025 - 10:45
        +1

        Also contributions to assisted living / aged care etc vs covered by public funds if you have nothing.

  • barbarella on 19/02/2025 - 18:45
    +1

    You can make an appointment at Centrelink to see a Retirement/Pension expert….they can tell you exactly how it will work for you in your circumstances….worth doing :)

  • Aerith-Waifu on 19/02/2025 - 21:05

    Makes sense to see why people now live 50% of the time in Thailand with Pension, it goes a long way when compared to here. Especially if their PPOR is worth a few million dollars and still eligible for it.

    • Protractor on 19/02/2025 - 23:27

      Two troughs for the price of one someone else's tax or sacrifice.
      The reason it's cheaper to live in Thailand on a pension is the exploitation factor.

      • Aerith-Waifu on 20/02/2025 - 04:22

        But its legal. if its legal then its not an exploitation. just like many politicians

        • tenpercent on 20/02/2025 - 08:25

          Said the slave-owner to the slaves in 1832.

          • frewer on 21/02/2025 - 07:19
            +2

            @tenpercent: There is a difference between legality and morality.

            • tenpercent on 21/02/2025 - 07:21
              +1

              @frewer: I assume you mean morality. And yes, yes there is.

              • frewer on 21/02/2025 - 16:56
                +1

                @tenpercent: Every system has loopholes. And often created by the law makers/ruler makers, the knowing will exploit it to the kingdom comes, hence the "so and so rich person paid $100 income tax last year", hence giant cooperation has an army of lawyers/accountants for only purpose to 'minimize taxes', hence Apple barely paid tax in AU and so on …

        • soan papdi on 20/02/2025 - 17:55

          But its legal. if its legal then its not an exploitation

          Google and BHP would like to hire you for their lobbying team.

  • Chewy2221 on 20/02/2025 - 08:44
    +2

    Centrelink's Financial Information Service is free service which will answer most, if not all of your questions. They will provide you with a written report which outlines your options including tax implications for each option as well as any entitlement to Centrelink payments & services. The collective wisdom of Oz bargain is no substitute for talking with someone who does this sort of thing for a living. Good luck

    • bmxr on 20/02/2025 - 11:45

      This. I began to tap out exactly this reply. We did a video/phone call with them and the parents prior to preparing their pension application and it was very, very, very helpful.

  • tessel on 20/02/2025 - 18:29

    House is exempt if living there and it is less than 5 acres. If not living there then it is an asset. However, always exception to every rule but generally speaking…

  • SeVeN11 on 21/02/2025 - 01:10
    +1

    The biggest loophole in the age pension is that PPOR is exempt from the asset test.
    You can live in a $10m mansion, have a $5m Line of Credit/Reverse mortgage against the property and draw the age pension.

    Debt is not assessable nor is it taxable.

    • sumyungguy on 21/02/2025 - 01:22
      +1

      You can't reverse mortgage more than 1.5 times the pension so that's not a loophole.

      • SeVeN11 on 21/02/2025 - 01:40
        +1

        In that case, best to stick to a simple mortgage.

      • mungicide on 21/02/2025 - 10:52

        So it's about max for single $1,144.4 /fortnight + $572.2/ fortnight = $1,716.6 / fortnight ?
        I doubt you can service a 10M mansion such amount?

        • tenpercent on 22/02/2025 - 09:30

          Service? Do you mean maids and butlers?

          • mungicide on 22/02/2025 - 09:39
            +1

            @tenpercent: i mean usual house maintenance wear & tear, council rates, sewerage charges, strata fees, insurances etc etc

            • mungicide on 22/02/2025 - 09:50

              @mungicide: Even at 1% for all that, you are talking about $100k pa just for maintenance!

              • BobLim on 23/02/2025 - 10:48

                @mungicide: I'm sure their kids can cover it from the massive piles of cash they were gifted just in time to have it drop off the radar for the pension assets tests

                • mungicide on 23/02/2025 - 11:52
                  +1

                  @BobLim: Centrelink has very strict limits on how much of your assets you can 'gift' before your pension will be affected (the 'gifting rules'). You can give away assets of $10,000 in a financial year, with a limit of $30,000 over a 5 year period.

                  • BobLim on 23/02/2025 - 13:09

                    @mungicide: Sure, and doesn't that gift stop being considered 5 years after it's made?

                    Being many years away from having to plan for such things, I'll admit to not being across all the details, but there will certainly be a point in time where gifting can occur without affecting the pension eligibility, or that the magnitude of the transfer makes it worth the temporary disqualification in the long run, no?

                    • mungicide on 23/02/2025 - 17:50

                      @BobLim: In the long run it would prob be best to gift it via inheritance instead to avoid CGT. Once retired super asset would be tax free. If liquidate earlier, prob would incur CGT as well. Unless the pension is worthwhile to pay all these taxes upfront which I doubt if you have significant assets that could be tax free in 5 years time …

  • mdw000 on 21/02/2025 - 10:36

    Thats why you don't see $100 notes these days https://www.smh.com.au/national/hoarding-100s-to-ensure-a-pe…

    • tenpercent on 22/02/2025 - 09:30

      Mr Mair's best guess is the average pensioner couple holds around $50,000 in undeclared $50 and $100 notes in order to access the pension.

      Mr Mair is delusional. Unless he means "the average Sydney lower north shore or eastern suburbs pensioner couple"

  • Logical on 21/02/2025 - 11:24

    For a couple the best case is to buy 2 houses next to each other, divorce at 60. Each own their PPOR next to each other. Each have $314K cash. Each get full pension. Do sleep overs every other night or whenever it suits.

    • sumyungguy on 21/02/2025 - 11:49

      Why not divorce at 67?

      • Logical on 21/02/2025 - 20:28

        Yep, that won't arouse any suspicion… How about divorcing the day before entitled to a pension?

        • Windows7forever on 22/02/2025 - 01:16

          A logical explanation!

        • sumyungguy on 22/02/2025 - 08:27

          Sham divorce has to be legally executed, date is irrelevant

    • Aerith-Waifu on 21/02/2025 - 20:16

      How about this: Sell the house which is worth $3m, buy a smaller less maintenance place and then transfer the money to the kids as gifts (let’s just say the kids are trustworthy), keep $314k. Live on the pension and then when need the money get the money from the kids.

      Say 3M sold, bought a smaller place for 1m, give the kids $1686000 as gifts. Keep the $314k. And when need the money get the money from kids. (Provided the kids will give back the money) How is that for an idea? Win win for both

      Or once the house is sold, set up a family trust with 2 kids and let the kids get 99% of the family distributions. And when need the money ask the kids for money. Yes? No?

      • Logical on 21/02/2025 - 20:26

        Yeah. They can't just gift kids $1.6M. They check all these things. There is a cap on gifts … Something like $20K per few years max. Hence why I said divorce at 60. Gets you 5 years before pension and doesn't raise too many suspicions. Divorce a day before entitled to a pension and gift money and they will know it was a scheme to get rid of assets etc

        • Aerith-Waifu on 21/02/2025 - 20:54

          Really? You can’t gift the kids money? What about give the money to the kids to purchase a house (for them)?

          What’s this 5 year rule all about? Are you saying you can still gift the money to the kids but have to wait 5 years before you can get pension? How does the rich do it then?

        • tenpercent on 22/02/2025 - 09:25

          Can you live at the same address as your divorced "ex" ;) partner?

  • flyk on 22/02/2025 - 08:13

    I am a Certified Financial Planner, and can confirm PPOR is exempt from Centrelink means test.

  • duluxe2000 on 22/02/2025 - 09:40

    What stop someone from buying holiday houses overseas but undeclare and receiving age pensions so they can live 6 months in Australia and 6 months overseas ?

    • saltypete on 23/02/2025 - 10:47

      Not so easy to get residency in desirable countries. I'm aware of folk that do it but not sure if pension comes into it.
      If you suck at welfares teat she wants to know all about your comings and goings…

  • BobLim on 23/02/2025 - 10:43

    Please Explain Age Pension

    Sure - People who worked for a couple of decades (or have never worked, but tend to keep quieter), are 'entitled' to receive ongoing and inflation-adjusted, no-strings-attached monetary gifts from the productive taxpaying population, solely due to their age and level of assets and income, largely irrespective of their personal choices and luck or otherwise in arriving at those circumstances.

    • mjuice7 on 23/02/2025 - 19:04

      cheer up. the age pension may not be around when & if you make it to pension age. if it is you may even be lucky enough to have a politician move the goalposts for you as well.👍

      • BobLim on 23/02/2025 - 20:35

        Fingers crossed! I'm not even expecting to be able to access my own super at that point, so I suppose I'll be either proven correct or pleasantly surprised, assuming I live long enough to find out.

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