Hi
I just price matched LG 47ml6200 with JB for $695 ( HN's price) however I came home with empty hands.
The problem was the check out staff asked for My ID ( driving licence) and saying it's company policy to ID checks for anyone that spending over $500.
So I just walked out without purchasing it. I felt I have been treated like a criminal.
Anyone here experience the same situation as mine?
That JB store is at hoppers crossing..
Have a good night all
JB are famous for that
they also take ID details for phone purchases WITHOUT a sim which is way more than the govt. requires
their petulant response is… if you dont like it, buy it from someone else
but since they are the big dog in electronics retailing now, they can do what they want
I take ID for phones without a sim as well. What of it?
When this was first brought to us, the rule was "every mobile phone you sell you take their ID and fill out this form".
Rules are rule. The staff just follow what they are told.
Checking ID for purchases over $500? Makes sense to me. Doesn't do anything to counter the most common forms of theft though.
I take ID for phones without a sim as well. What of it?
When this was first brought to us, the rule was "every mobile phone you sell you take their ID and fill out this form".
I can understand phones, to help with police tracking of phone bombs… also prank callers (every phone can call the emergency number without a sim)
Checking ID for purchases over $500? Makes sense to me. Doesn't do anything to counter the most common forms of theft though.
I don't particularly understand this bit though.. is there a rule about being over a certain age before someone can buy $500+?
I understand credit checks (which should've been completed by a credit card company and not the retailer, i.e. JB, unless they're going on a rentsmart or similar payment plan) but a simple flash of your ID does not really help with a credit check.
As you said, it doesn't counter the most common forms of theft, so why is this even in place? For a credit card, I guess it helps with verifying the cardholder by matching with photo ID, however as other posters have said - if someone's going to use a dodgy credit card, they'll be using a dodgy ID as well, so I don't see how this rule helps.
With what other people are saying, JB Hifi checkout staff's responses seem to be a bit arrogant of shop somewhere else.
I take ID for phones without a sim as well. What of it?
As the legal requirements for ID relate to SIM cards, not the phone itself, collecting ID for phone only amounts to nothing less than an illegitimate private data pillaging exercise by a corporate. That's what of it.
Never head of that before. JB can go to hell if that is the case. The only time i like to show ID is to buy alcohol, to the police and when i'm making applications for passport etc.
I bought a TV from JB 2 years ago for $600 and they didn't ask for ID so i wonder how long it's been going on for?
JB can go to hell if that is the case.
they can also refuse you service if that is the case.
I don't want their service or products if they are going to ID check me. Like a few people have said JB should have better measures in place against fraud. It's just another added inconvenience and invasion of privacy whether you think of it that way or not.
If everyone walked out and refused then they would get rid of the ID check. Consumers need to make a stand. Not so much against JB - there are a lot of other companies far worse for different reasons.
i gave this as a present http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/87178 not long ago. a 10 sec id check for a ~$350 discount is totally worth. i wouldn't hesitate providing an id for great savings next time too. keep up the good work jb.
escimojoe
I understand, then again, if ID checks stop fraud and theft, then I wont be paying more to cover this.
Not an easy thing to decide, and a personal choice. On the balance, I won't be one to join your protest.
I understand, then again, if ID checks stop fraud and theft, then I wont be paying more to cover this.
My big problem is that I am unconvinced that this is an effective solution. Most sales assistants never even look at signatures, so asking them to fail to look at photo ID as well is hardly an improvement.
Most of the time, they do match the signatures.
If someone is asked for a ID and even though staff won't look at it, it is a deterrent for people, who have stolen the credit card and might find it uneasy to show their ID.
Got asked when I used my CC to purchase a $79 Panasonic Blu-Ray player.
Honestly, I didn't think anything of it.
id check when paying with a cc is good thing. asking for id for cash transactions would be very strange.
Exactly! It's there to protect both them and their customers from credit card fraud.
VISA does this anyway. And Mastercard too, I believe.
Did you pay via pay wave/pay pass?
From my ING Visa Debit card. I have purchased things like HDD and pionner system with the same card but never have any problem in the past at JB
You can't use PayWave/PayPass for transactions over $100 anyway.
You can, you just have to use a pin.
Kinda pointless to use paywave then isn't it?
It's faster.
Not even, I don't think you understand…
Use paywave once and have to enter your pin and you'll see it's not faster.
I did not know this. I know that it definitely says "NO CONTACTLESS" at my place of work if I enter $100 or more on the EFTPOS machine (i.e. no PayWave/PayPass). And if you have to enter a PIN, then the only time you save is the one or two seconds it takes you to normally insert and remove the card. If you are just swiping, then that is just as fast as using PayPass.
No time saved at all, if anything paypass is slower when you have to enter your pin.
hold card there few seconds wait for it to register, checked to see if it registered… did not register, oh fuckit i'll just swipe.
They have a sign that your ID can be checked for purchases over $500 with a credit card at the checkout in Knox, Vic.
Never checked mine tho…
I often don't even bother going into JB (or Harvey Norman for that matter) especially when I have a bag with me as I find the attention everyone gets on the way out when someone checks through your bags as rather insulting. I'm Aussie but lived in London and Tokyo before for many years and this is the only place I have seen this happen.
perhaps aussies steal more? we are after all descendants of convicts and criminals. aussie retailers don't want to write-off, while brits and japs says "ohh well, better luck next year".
They cant actually enforce the bag checks from my understanting. (different states could be different).
They cant actually make you open your bag. You can refuse and they pretty much have to make a choice to detain you and wait for the police or let you go. They need to have a good reason to detain someone (like actually seeing them put something in their bag) or they can be charged with false imprisonment. If they detain you and you have nothing in the bad they could face charges.
I did a training day with the loss prevention guy for the woolworths group. He said on occasion he refuses bag checks just to mess with the people at the door. Most of them have no idea what to do in that happens.
edit: should have read further down in the thread.
You can refuse and they pretty much have to make a choice to detain you and wait for the police or let you go.
Actually the store cannot detain the person with physical force.. definitely not without a security guard (not sure if a security guard can detain a person though, think they can use 'reasonable force' to remove someone from the premises though)
JB usually have security guards though - unlike most other stores
I work at safeway, and know for a fact that we practically can't do anything if someone steals from us. I've seen it happen right in front of me many times..
Uhhh…which Safeway is that?
actually theft in australia is just a slap on the wrist when you are caught…
in japan, it's a different thing… you'll get your arse handed to you in jail.
I just open my backpack on the way out so they can do their cursory glance and give 'em a big smile and a cursory 'have a good day!'. Doesn't bother me any but I guess those who aren't comfortable will just shop somewhere else. Fair enough. Each to their own!
If you do have a security person ever ask to check your bag people just be nice. They have a pretty crappy job…
Doesn't bother me any but I guess those who aren't comfortable will just shop somewhere else.
I think it's got to do with women's bags mainly… with their 'personal care items' that can be embarrassing.
I'd put it this way though: Why do you even care what a security guard will see in your bag, it's not like the security guard will ever see that chick again (usually) or affect their personal life/status/image.
Sorry, but it seems like a small thing showing an ID, why did you just walk out without purchasing it? It's not like they were being intrusive, it's most likely that the cashier was just following a new protocol as mentioned above by Trueno.
I knew what you are saying exc3113nce. May be i am a bit sensitive in this kind of treatment. I felt rather insulting in this matter and I am not a criminal. I just simply tried to spend my hard money. as mentioned by wasabinator I lived in overseas for many years and that was the first time my joy of shopping was destroyed .
Your joy of shopping is destroyed by having to show some ID, which would take maybe 5-10 seconds to present?
Completely understand, I guess it's hard for some of us to comprehend what others have been through, and in some cultures something such as an ID check would be considered condescending.
I agree with you, feel similar, but I think it's worth the annoyance if it helps cut down fraud
I once got asked by a security guard at a JB on my way out "why are you smiling?" said in a slightly suspicious tone, maybe they had some smiling shoplifters through the store recently. Anyway it wiped the smile off my face for a bit, but then I was just glad that I wasn't the one being a jerk and continued on my merry way.
You know that the highest IQ acceptable for a security guard job is 90? :) At least it's always seemed that way to me.
You don't have to show them your bags. Even though it might be a "condition of entry" it has no legal binding. The store may refuse you entry but they won't even remember your face next time you go in.
Big companies like these are more scared of you suing them than what you have in your bags. It's all for show. If a security guard touches you or grabs your bag and forces you to show him then you can sue the store.
I did security work in QLD for a few years ago and they teach you not to touch or search anyone because most of the time it will get you fired. If you see some kid shop lift something - don't even pursue him because chances are he might of put it back by the time you get to him and the cameras usually see nothing to back you up!
What exactly can you sue the shop for? What dollar figure would you want your lawyers to demand, if you were indeed successful in your lawsuit, and what does this dollar figure represent? The mental stress you suffered from being touched by a security guard?
We don't live in a litigious society like our American friends do, we don't go around suing people for nothing. I can't speak on behalf of everyone but I personally like it this way.
What exactly can you sue the shop for - I'm not sure, why don't you go ask a lawyer? As for the dollar figure it would depend on what exactly happened - go see a lawyer. Mental Stress - maybe, possibly - once again go see a lawyer.
You say we don't live in a litigious society. That's a load of crap. Australia is fast becoming like our American friends and has been this way for a long time.
You can sue the shop and the security guard himself. We shouldn't have to live in a society of bag searches and id checks to make purchases. Especially when we all know that it's only for show.
Edit - i forgot to copy and paste this in:
Can a shop ask to inspect my bags?
When you enter a shop with a sign at the entrance advising you of that stores bag checking policy, your entry to the shop is conditional on you making your bags available for inspection if asked. Store keepers can ask to look inside your bags without touching you or any of your belongings. You can be asked to show what is in the bag or move something to allow them to see what is in the bag. Small handbags are usually not checked.
You have the right to refuse to allow a bag inspection. You may be asked to leave the store, refused right to buy goods or refused reentry to the store. Police may be called if you were shoplifting.
Traders do not have the right to forcibly search your bags or detain you in order to search them. If the trader, or an employee, asks you to do either of these, you should ask to speak to the store manager or request that they call the police.
If you have been shoplifting you may be detained until the police arrive. If a person has been wrongly detained they may have a legal action and should get advice from a private solicitor. If you wish to complain about a bag check you can contact the store or complain to Queensland Retail Traders and Shopkeepers Association.
I agree we're even slowly losing our health care ya know because health isn't important or anything.
I doubt you've ever been sued before. Someone tried to sue me before at work (company and myself and my boss named). Just sending aggressive sounding letters to and fro ended up with a legal bill for $100k+ (that's as far as the case went before the other side backed off). I'd hate to think what it would cost if we got into a courtroom.
I'd suggest that the legal fees for suing someone because they asked you to open a shopping bag would far outweigh the potential damages you'd get.
It's only if they touch you or your bags that you would have a case. Wait until your daughter comes home one day crying her eyes out because the security guard asked her to open her bag and he saw the big black adult toy she had just recently purchased.
It could have been avoided if you informed your daughter that she doesn't legally have to show her bag to anyone (except the police.) I'm just sharing the love.. i'm sure there are a few people that didn't know you don't have to show bags.
My apologies. You seemed to play the "you can sue em!!!" card so quickly I (incorrectly) assumed you had some idea with respect to what you're suing them for.
It would simply be a precaution to prevent credit card fraud in the case of stolen cards and chargebacks. I think you'll find quite a few retailers request ID for large CC purchases these days. I imagine JB would be high on the list of places to use stolen cards ie. young staff, long lines at busy times, and most importantly desirable and easily sellable goods.
If my card got stolen I think I'd prefer this check in place, before someone can max out your card with a big screen TV or couple of top of the range iPads, before you even realise it's gone.
I for one would also leave and not show ID. It is the wrong solution to the problem, if the payment system isn't working then fix it, don't introduce more intrusive privacy destroying measures.
There may be a security protocol required by the card issuer. I was using my Ing card at Chemist Warehouse and asked for the transaction to be split so that I could come under $100 and get the Paywave bonus both times. The second transaction she asked me to use my PIN. I said no, I prefer to use Paywave to get the bonus. She then asked for my ID and okayed Paywave. I notice she glanced at the screen so I wonder if she was reading some instructions there.
Mastercard and Visa both specify that merchants must accept cards with no extra ID checks.
Actually, as a merchant - I know they don't. In fact, the suggest ID checking in suspicious circumstances.
MasterCard Rules
Merchants and Sales Transactions
5.8 Card Acceptance Requirements
…
5.8.1 Honor All Cards
A Merchant must honor all valid Cards without discrimination when properly
presented for payment. A Merchant must maintain a policy that does not
discriminate among customers seeking to make purchases with a Card. A
Merchant that does not deal with the public at large (for example, a private
club) is considered to comply with this rule if it honors all valid and properly
presented Cards of Cardholders that have purchasing privileges with the
Merchant.
…
5.8.4 Additional Cardholder Identification
A Merchant must not refuse to complete a Transaction solely because a
Cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a Card at
the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as
specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A Merchant may require
additional identification from the Cardholder if the information is required to
complete the Transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A Merchant in a
country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification
Service (AVS) may require the Cardholder’s ZIP or postal code to complete a
Cardholder-Activated Terminal (CAT) Transaction, or the Cardholder’s address
and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce
Transaction.
http://www.mastercard.com.au/merchant/_assets/docs/merchants…
Never, I purchased a home theater system and paid on card- no id check…
buy online…and no ID as…
buy online…and no ID as…
But they have your delivery address…
Bought a TV online, ID check instore for pickup.
What I didn't like was the security guard demanding for a receipt…really, how could I possibly steal a TV in a box. Had to go back and the storeman told the security guard that we were fine.
How is an id check that intrusive? its not like they note down what they see, and will most likely forget 2 seconds after seeing your ID.
So then why is it even needed at all? If you were committing fraud you wouldn't be using your real ID anyways. It's quite easy to obtain a fake Drivers licence with false numbers on it and like you said JB would forget and wouldn't have a way of identifying if the ID you're showing them is even real.
Someone with access to fake drivers license and ID is going to commit fraud. Asking for ID is simply another way to MINIMIZE (not to eliminate) potential credit card fraud which is a big thing. Its simply verify for the merchant that the person using the credit card is the legitimate holder. Simple really. It may help to stop petty, small time crooks who've come across a lost or stolen CC.
Are you serious?
Time spent showing ID = 2 seconds
Time spent going to another shop, waiting for service, hoping for the same price/product, waiting in line > 2 seconds
I know what I'd choose.
A choice of convenience, I know. Some people will choose morally though rather than by per convenience on each occasion.
Time spent giving a blood sample and having an in depth rectal exam performed to confirm your identity (company policy I'm sure you understand) = 10 min
Time spent wishing you and others had cared enough about the tiny injustices to make even the very slightest of efforts to shop somewhere else = > 10 min
I know which one sounds like more fun.. ;D
We went to Spain in May 2012, and every single time we bought anything on our credit cards, they checked our ID to make sure the signature was the same as on the credit card - whether it was 10euro or 500euro, that's just the way they did things there.
Anyway if you don't like their policy, don't shop there. If anything, at least they're doing their bit to reduce credit card fraud, which although currently at a low rate in Australia could certainly increase if retailers pay less attention to signatures etc.
I had the same experience when I went out last night and the bouncer at the bar asked for my ID. I WAS ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED at the request. I felt like I was treated like a criminal and they thought I was a rapist or worse, a paedophile. I left and came back home to watch internet.
maybe you just look younger than you are?
Uh oh! Time to check your sarcasm-o-meter!! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE CALL CAPTAIN OBVIOUS??
i ll take that as a compliment
6 out of 10 times in my memory check out staff asked me whether I want to pin or sign wherever I checking out ( I am going to pin it anyway in this case). However that check out lady asked me nothing but just demands " I have to check your licence".
May be there is a better way to request the ID like" May I see your driving licence please as per company policy to check ID that anyone spending over $500". I said sorry and thank you to sale staff and explained the reason why I am not purchasing it and he looked at the check out counter and shakes his head as well and then we shake hands (even though no deal here) and I left JB.
Anyhow I went to HN this morning and bought it. Sale staff sent the sale information to check out PC via his PC then I just went to check out and mentioned my name and pin my numbers and all done in less than 4 minutes.
Thank you for everyone here for your feedback.
Have a good day all.thanks
Many retailers will ask for ID if a credit card transaction is above a certain amount, I work for Kmart and am also required to do this, though they're not meant to state what the amount is.
I would have bought at JB, regardless of their policy so that Gerry character didn't get any of my heard earned!
(I've got no issues with photo ID for large purchases.)
Yes,I would have bought it from TGG but out of stock at TGG so I tried JB before HN.
I made a 9k purchase on my c/c from JB, they didn't bother to compare sigs against my licence (is this what we're calling an ID check?). I showed them my sig anyway :P.
I have a dirty filthy beard.. people ask me for my drivers license all the time.
you actually walked out and didnt purchase it? showing ID is no big deal.
at the end of the day, they lost a sale
and the reality may be that you didnt even need that item all that much
so its a win for consumerism i'd say
I'm sure the shop manager had trouble sleeping that night because he or she lost $700 in sales that day during their busiest period of the year.
Boo hoo
Reading this makes me more likely to shop at JB (coincidentally, bought something there this morning) and more likely to buy JB shares.
Concerned citizen
Feeling insulted over drivers licence?
If they said it's policy, why do you feel insulted?
Would you feel insulted when you have to show your I'd when purchasing a student ticket on public transport?
If you have nothing to hide then showing your licence is no big deal.
I understand your point. As I mentioned it above demanding and requesting are not the same. What happened if you don't have a driver licence with you or you never have one?
They should clearly displayed purchasing policy on the check out counters at least.
Just saying I have to check your licence may be offended to some sensitive people like me.
i agree with the OP
its his money and his principles and JB's lost sale
the consumer is always the king when it comes to parting with the cash
if you feel that handing over your ID is fine well great, that's your money… its his money in this case
I personally dont think its a huge deal but we're not talking my money are we?
here's food for thought.. would you want to let strangers know where this latest iphone/ipad is located? sure, look at the driver's license.
hope you have content insurance.
They`re on to OP ;p
Heard on news a while back that they have had big problems with shoplifting. 50% rise in a year- something like that.
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/8515943/thieves-s…
I've only ever been in one JB store- Leichardt- staff seemed exceptionally dozy but there was always a security guard out front.
May be the western world is facing more insecurity problems than before.
I lived in Tokyo for years and shoplifting is nonexistent there. Sale staff always treat you with respect.
Being asked for ID is not 'disrespectful'!
but its his money
if he's not happy showing his ID its his right not to spend
and i dont know what shoplifting has to do with a lawful purchase of $500 big tv
Sales person don't know, if it is his credit card or stolen.
Why are people negging him? It's true that shoplifting (and crime in general) is much lower in Tokyo than across the Western World…
Sorry, but it seems like a small thing showing an ID
You should feel insulted buying something from harvey norman. I doubt they gave you the same price.
There is nothing shameful about producing ID unless you are a criminal or have a shitty photo.
I got it for $695 from HN . No bargaining .That was HN's advertising price at that time $1 cheaper than TGG and $201 cheaper than JB.
Criminal will not purchase $700 TV on A stolen card , he will go for $10,000 diamonds ha ha ha.
I still believe there is a better way to request ( not demanding) your ID.
Check out staff should ask the customers whether he or she want to pin or signature.
If for pin there no need for ID to be produced.
Purchasing policy regarding to ID check should be displayed on check out counters or better still at the entry point.
Thanks again everyone here for your kindly feedback and I valued that
Have a good day
if thats your view on id checks then i wonder if you ever left the country, went to a nightclub or liquor store in your youth or went to a hotel. they all need id checks its how the world is. i have so many cards one could go missing and i wouldnt notice for a week, and it would be so easy to roughly sign my name. i personally would welcome if all shops did this for all transactions by signature, maybe not for pin because that is a secret number.
Listen up.
Showing ID
ID fraud is one of the big growth areas worldwide. The easiest, most reliable way to protect yourself is to limit who has details of your ID, including name, address, date of birth, ID number, photo. If they store it electronically, and they get hacked, you're vulnerable. Not all successful hacking situations will either be detected or, if detected, disclosed to you (to my knowledge there are no laws that require this, yet).
If paying by credit card, then you might be asked for photo ID to confirm you are the cardholder. You can always refuse to do this but provided they do not take details from the photo ID itself this should be fine. If required i might show the photo ID, but do not generally give it to them.
If there are parts of the card you do not want them to see, then mask those parts using tape. For example i mask various parts of my drivers license when flying - i can confirm my name (they can see name & photo), but that doesn't mean they need to see D/L number, DOB etc. More people than you may think do this.
If paying by cash, no ID should be required. If they request a name for the receipt, I decline to provide this, or say "Valued Customer". I have little patience when this happens - I generally ask if we have a sale or not.
Showing bags
Most shops have a condition of entry that they can check your bag on exit (usually specified on notice above points of entry). To breach this is simply a breach of contract - a civil matter - and unless they can prove some kind of loss they are not likely to get far with any kind of litigation. Therefore in practice it's all BS. It is certainly not a criminal matter, but many staff are not properly trained so don't always appreciate this.
I refuse to show my bag on the way out of stores. This can generate some heat. Here's some standard responses to requests that i generally use (always be polite & calm):
Q: Could i see your bag please; A: No.
Q: I'm sorry but it's a condition of entry; A: I'm sorry too because i find it quite invasive - I have private items in my bag and have no intention of showing it to you, nor am i required to.
Q: Everyone else shows their bag; A: Obviously i'm not everyone.
Q: I'll need to get my manager; A: That's fine, but i'm off to the bus stop - he/she can meet me there.
Q: If you've got nothing to hide, why don't you show your bag? A: It's not so much that i have something to hide, but nothing to show.
I get banned from stores now & again. If this happens I ask for the name of the person who has banned me, then i ask for the manager. If only the duty manager is present I ask for the name & number of the main manager & call them the next day. Every time I have done this I have been unbanned. I usually just acknowledge that they are required to ask, but i tell them that i reserve the right to decline. I don't say that i will always decline as this can put them in a difficult position (and the banning is more likely to remain). I never provide my name.
BTW there's been several cases of customers suing retailers for the (civil) tort of assault and/or false imprisonment by over-reaching retailers in these circumstances.
Refusing to show your bag is also great experience for saying "no" and holding your ground - ie good assertiveness training, for when it really matters.
Most people
Of course most people don't care: they let dodgy club owners scan their drivers license and fingerprints, and just show their bags. I've certainly been defrauded before, but have yet had someone romp around claiming to be me & racking up debts. My understanding is when this does happen it can be devastating for the individual concerned. I imagine that for many people they have to experience the horror of identity fraud before they appreciate the issues and choose to make simple modifications to their behavior.
Shopping anonymously & safely online
Check out this awesome prior contribution (and above that comment) to see how to shop more safely using a pre-paid credit card. You'll be able to fill in the gaps …
Another top contribution by FreckleNuts that perhaps three people will read …
Simple answer
"its a condition of entry"
" Yes I see that, that's why I am leaving"
On another comment…
they let dodgy club owners scan their drivers license and fingerprints, and just show their bags
This is different.
You cant enter unless you do this. That's different. You can choose not to enter.
Now if a store had checks on you going in, vs a sign that you might or might not see.
BTW for your personal interest in entering a club (NSW law), if you are SHOWING signs of intoxication, then the club is required to refuse you entry, as well so is the employee. Now ONE of the signs is "argumentive". Most punters incorrectly believe that they need to BE intoxicated before they are refused. My son damaged his eye, so its a diluted pupil all the time. He gets refused as this is a sign. Then he argues - you get the idea.
So now he takes a doctors certificate. Intrusive yes, but the club is under threat of $5000 fine if they get it wrong, so they play it safe….
"Yes I see that, that's why I am leaving".
Think i'll use that next time.
This is different.
I didn't actually say they were the same - it was more a comment on how normalised providing personal information (to say simply enter a venue) is becoming for many people. This is especially the case at many venues in Sydney which is notoriously violent with their big noisy beer barns where monitoring alcohol consumption is difficult. Melbourne has its issues, but it generally has smaller venues cf NSW.
I only know of that if you buy $500 of gift cards.