I moved in to a new apartment after taking over the lease and it turns out my next door neighbour is using his apartment as a psychology office.
They have set up chairs in the landing area in front of the lift using the space as a waiting room for his patients. It's only our two apartments on this level and it's a small building with very few apartments.
What is the best way to approach this?
Hopefully you receive some sensible suggestions on this post. My suggestion would be to not engage directly with the neighbour because if you were to eventually escalate anonymously, they would know who did it. If stuff like your car getting keyed in the basement does not bother you too much, knock knock and have a polite conversation. I am guessing one reason for clients to wait in the lobby is privacy of client conversations which likely would be audible for everyone within the apartment. So in absolute worst case, they will have to find a new place or ask clients to wait out in the street - either very expensive or not good for customer comfort.
There is only two apartments on this floor. Mine and his. He will know.
@persei7: Hmm.. What is that saying something about rock and hard place.
Btw are you planning to stay long in this apartment? If its 6 months, by the time anything happens in your favour you will be out of here.
But if you are long-term you really have two choices. Either you live with this till you move out (think about that too - can you put up with this however long you are going to be here).
Or you are likely forcing the practice to move out. Imagine sharing lift with the neighbour at the same time. Awkward!!!
Either way, its short-term (relatively speaking) benefit or pain as you will eventually move out.
It's affecting, not effecting.
Also, it is affecting his life and he doesn't have to put up with it. Common property can't be used this way. Why is it that you think OP should be the one to compromise when the other party is the one creating the problem?
…which is affecting his life. I don't know why you think you're qualified to say it's not. Personally I would hate this too.
Assuming council knows about the business, there are generally rules about about visitors and they wouldn't be allowed to use common property as a waiting room. OP is well within their rights to complain and doesn't need to check your feelings on the matter.
I don't know why you think you're qualified to say it's not.
The only one qualified is the next door neighbor, the one he refusing to talk too :P
@Beef jerky time: "I don't know why you think you're qualified to say it's not. Personally I would hate this too."
Also your choice. Honestly some people must have no real problems in their lives if they getting all emotional about this kind of thing.
"OP is well within their rights to complain and doesn't need to check your feelings on the matter."
Also OP "What is the best way to approach this?"
If he didn't want input then why did create the thread? I guess he might have been looking for validation? I might buy the apartment next door and hang out my shingle as well.
@EightImmortals: There's always someone who thinks the rules don't apply to them. There's always someone else who thinks that, even though that person is creating a problem, that you should be the one that just sucks it up, rather than expecting the problem-maker to stop being a problem. I feel like the Venn diagram of this probably has you in the middle.
@Beef jerky time: OK so firstly, there is no real problem and secondly "rules must be obeyed without question"? lols.
@EightImmortals: Hang on, there might very well be a problem aside from the justified discomfort of OP.
Randoms bringing who-knows-what into the building. Respiratory stuff. Mental stuff.
And if it's a security building? Buzzing in strangers that Dr. TheRapist will take no responsibility for, should the worst happen?
Yeah, that's comforting stuff right there.
@EightImmortals: All possible, some very likely and they're concerns shared by the majority here, mate.
You never said how comfortable you'd be in OPs situation, just suggested they roll out the tea trolley and talk to random strangers.
Betting you wouldn't.
Regardless, OP doesn't want to and that's their choice. They also didn't move into an office or commercial space, and are entitled to security and privacy.
@EightImmortals: The best probable solution is to set up on your front doorstep. You can give spelling lessons to the waiting patients, seeing as the whole concept doesn't seem like it could 'effect' you.
If life gives you tents, erect them.
Why do people think running businesses from home are automatically legal?
Do they have business insurance? Is their home insurance correctly managed? Are they abiding by council regulations? All that's before body corporate/strata who will ask the same questions (because theyll really be peeved if their insurance goes up)
Home Occupation is a general right. Not sure what council have to do with this at all. State authorities perhaps. Owners Corp/Strata insurance won't be affected at all.
Still, the doofus can't use common property if it impacts on other lot owners/occupiers.
Insurance absolutely can be affected as running a business withclients attending has public liability issues, especially if using common area as a waiting room. Also if they are renting they nees landlord approval in most states. Many councils also have specific re1uirements and regulations for running a business from home.
He's not 'home occupied' but running a business.
Certainly in SA, these are the basics
https://business.gov.au/planning/business-structures-and-typ…
Every council has own regulations. Some have strong restrictions on home businesses where public visit.
Strata insurance has a large portion based on public liability risk. Public visits for the purposes of business may compromise that insurance.
Home Occupation is defined and doesn't require council approval nor permit in every Melbourne scheme that I've seen. SA is irrelevant.
I've been on OC committees before. Underwriters/brokers only ask for disclosure of retail or commercial businesses. Ie. Shops.
he's not using it as a home is he. running a business absolutely requires approval from council, i'm surprised people don't seem to know this too.
he's really playing with fire. if the patient trips and falls and breaks a leg or gets into a punch up with the OP they can sue and I would presume he does not have public liability insurance
It's ridiculous how strong councils are
Why do people think running businesses from home are automatically illegal?
Not being automatically legal does not make them automatically illegal. Strangely, the law isn't black and white.
If only there were planning schemes defining and dictating what practices require approval or permits. Oh wait. There is. Guess where Home Occupation falls under.
Guess where Home Occupation falls under.
I'll be honest, I'm too lazy to search, where does it fall?
Not being automatically legal does not make them automatically illegal. Strangely, the law isn't black and white.
That was my point…. These days it seems to be, home based business, must be illegal!!!
Technically anyone working from home, is part of a 'home based business'. You are providing your services in exchange for money.
@JimmyF: Absolutely and which is fine. Issue arises from the public visitors (not considering any tax implications etc).
It's something that pops up often. Oh, I have a garage and so I want set up a hairdressers/beauty salon/accounting business/repair shop etc.
And they just fail to engage the steps in the link above with council, insurance. The results are invariably complaints and more issues
And they just fail to engage the steps in the link above with council, insurance. The results are invariably complaints and more issues
Even if they are legal and engaged the council etc, complaints will come as people love to complain.
Ask him to pay you $100(?) each week, else you report him to strata.
Invite the clients into your apartment pretending to be the locum psychologist. Advise them that you only take cash now. Just be a good listener for 45 minutes. Approximately every 9 minutes say…
And how does that make you feel?
Pocket the $300 cash. Winning.
remember the golden rule: dont get touchy with the patients and should be all fine.
Don’t do what Dr Huxtable Does
Psychologists hate this one simple trick.
Just check if they are a new patient first. Otherwise they’ll be on to you.
I'm sure you could come to a mutually acceptable solution. Doesn't seem on the surface like its something that warrants you getting involved. If you have specific concerns, approach him and see if you can work something out.
It is obviously somewhat disconcerting to open your door and be faced with some confused clients waiting to be seen at all times of the day. It is not the end of the world but obviously detracts from my free enjoyment of my place. Specially for my guests who have no idea what is going on.
Ok. But why is the onus on me to do that on a residential building? That is the issue.
@persei7: So your guests will then have some idea of what's going on?
I'm not scientist so I don;t know how many joules of energy you would have to burn to communicate that information to them but if you do a crowdfund for some Mars Bars I'll chip in a bit.
@EightImmortals: Communicating the problem doesn't remove the problem. I am still confronted with anxious patients at all times of day. Not something I, or my guests, particularly want to do.
@persei7: 'assume'? But I thought were being put out 'all hours of the day'? So How many people actually turn up and how long do they have to wait for? Is most of it going on in your head?
@EightImmortals: You are being unnecessarily obtuse. It is not a meat production factory. It is a psychology practice. The patients come and go randomly and so do I. There are enough clients that it has been distracting in the short period that I have been here. That is all you need to know.
“Hey mate just a heads up the lobby is a waiting room”
There's so many ways you can handle this depending on how petty you want to be and if there's cameras or not.
Would the strata insurance potentially be void if there was a business operating there without the correct approvals?
I know residential house insurance can be voided if you run a business from home
Yes. Good point. And is he renting or is he an owner? Many lease agreements do not permit running a business out of residential property unless specifically approved by the landlord.
Strata insurance insures the physical building, and ancillaries. Home Occupation business use wouldn't even be a disclosure. Retail commercial use, yes. Which isn't the case here.
I do hope you realise you're talking absolute nonsense.
https://andlegal.com.au/do-work-from-home-arrangements-affec…
https://www.newsure.com.au/insuring-your-business-when-you-w…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-21/can-working-from-home…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-20/side-businesses-voidi…
https://pno.com.au/insights/do-you-have-the-right-insurance-…
https://graceinsurance.com.au/blog/working-from-home-liabili…
And before you think "ah, but they're talking about working from home, not running a business from home", the WFH issue in any article that addresses it leads on to how running a business affects your insurance, up to and including even asking about business insurance can trigger the cancellation of existing home and contents insurance.
Don't disclose your home business if you don't want to, but don't sook when they tell you "tough luck" when you can't claim for anything on your home insurance policies.
Do you realise you've confused OC/Strata insurance with Home/landlord insurance?
Do you understand the difference?
At my apartment block the first port of call before talking to the neighbour would be the Strata Manager (not the Owners Committee). The Strata Manager is supposed to know the law of what can and can't be done in common areas. They are also good at sending legal sounding letters.
If that doesn't work then next is Owners Committee. They can pass a bi-law if needed.
Note that if they are running a business from the property it could make the insurance null & void.
Check their usage of the BBQ facilities
great post that one….. Classic ozbargain
You are acting like there is no difference between having too many BBQs and renting the communal BBQ for your personal profit to strangers. Everyday.
As others have mentioned, if no strata to raise with, call a body corp meeting to address this. Also speak to council as neighbour will need council approval to run this business from home
If they’re a registered psychologist speak to AHPRA because that’s a massive breach of a persons confidentiality and may well be a breach of the code of conduct
I’d be far more worried about issues with the professional registration body, an audit, and my licence, than anything strata would have to say to me
Again that’s only applicable if they are a registered psychologist and not a counselor
If you know their name look their details up here
https://www.ahpra.gov.au/registration/registers-of-practitio…
How is having a waiting area other tenants pass through a confidentiality breach? Almost every medico I've seen has shared rooms these days.
Yes but those waiting rooms are not in a space in an apartment building, in a domestic living environment. Essentially a waiting room is a private space, the hallway of an apartment block is not)
There’s ethics around this and how you treat your patients. Making them wait in a landing area in an apartment is not a professional way of treating them.
AHPRA would look at this and say it’s bringing the profession into disrepute because it’s unprofessional
I agree it is unprofessional.
that’s a massive breach of a persons confidentiality
LOL how do you think clients get into a psychologist office? Via some underground batman tunnel so no one can see them?
No they just walk in the front door for all to see.
True but they usually aren’t left in a public waiting area before their appointment for the general public to walk past. I wonder how much this is increasing their stress levels?
I would say more people see them when waiting in a waiting room at a psychologist office, than who would see them at the OPs building. The only person that would remotely even see them would be the OP.
While a waiting room at a psychologist office is generally full of other waiting people as the psychologist offices have many staff on at once seeing lots of people.
@try2bhelpful: Nobody is regulating who goes to any waiting room. I can walk into any waiting room I like, no questions asked.
As I said, far less people at the OP building will see them (one person, the OP) compared to a 'real' waiting room that is full. Its not a common area full of people, it'll be one person who arrives a few minutes before their session.
@JimmyF: I suspect if you wandered into any waiting room you liked you would be asked to leave, it is private property. Common areas would not be good waiting areas for psychology patients and I suspect people are waiting for more than a few minutes.
This is not an acceptable setup. However, a quiet word will probably sort it out. The guy is probably having a lend hoping nobody says anything.
I suspect if you wandered into any waiting room you liked you would be asked to leave, it is private property
Nope. You can walk into any place and sit down. No one cares, no one asks questions. Don't act like it isn't any other way. Try it next time you go to the doctor, just walk in and sit down. No one will give two sh1ts.
Common areas would not be good waiting areas for psychology patients and I suspect people are waiting for more than a few minutes.
Psychology patient waiting rooms are just normal waiting rooms. Nothing special. You act like its some secret dirty affair to be hidden away from the world that they rush you off into a hidden room so no one sees you. Shock, its like visiting a doctor. Nothing different just longer sessions.
@JimmyF: When I walk into my doctor’s office I am expected to tell the people at the front desk I’m there for my appointment. It would be a pretty poor doctor’s office that didn’t talk to someone who just came in and sat down.
With psychology patients you might be dealing with people who have anxiety issues and are stressed waiting in public areas. If I was going to a psychologist, or any medical professional, I would be unhappy with this situation.
As I said a quiet word to the psychologist should fix this. Not acceptable in a residential building.
When I walk into my doctor’s office I am expected to tell the people at the front desk I’m there for my appointment. It would be a pretty poor doctor’s office that didn’t talk to someone who just came in and sat down.
Sure you are expected, but as I said, no one gives two sh1ts if you just go sit down. Try it next time you arrive early, sit down for 5 mins. No one will care. So don't act like it is some policed waiting room.
Or those places you take a number, don't take a number and sit down. Again no one gives two sh1ts if you sit there for 2 hours.
With psychology patients you might be dealing with people who have anxiety issues and are stressed waiting in public areas. If I was going to a psychologist, or any medical professional, I would be unhappy with this situation.
Have you even been to one? Its not a nut job waiting room like you think. Its no different to a doctors waiting room. It's not full of rain men rocking back and forward you know .
As I said a quiet word to the psychologist should fix this. Not acceptable in a residential building.
Don't disagree with that, I disagree with your views that people seeing a psychologist need to have total privacy and should be ashamed of being seen in a waiting room.
@JimmyF: Since when did I say the psychology patients should be ashamed to be there? It is not unreasonable to expect that someone visiting a psychologist might be more anxious and stressed out than anyone else. That being forced to wait in a public place might exacerbate that.
Since when did you only have to wait five minutes to see a doctor either? Mine seems to be 15 minutes plus. Your doctor’s waiting rooms sound like a zoo. In mine the receptionist addresses people as they walk in the door.
This whole argument is preposterous. There are probably quite a few planning, strata title, and medical board rules the psychologist is breaking doing this. I’m just saying having a quiet word could resolve the situation without escalating it. The psychologist moves his waiting room into the apartment and everything is resolved.
Since when did I say the psychology patients should be ashamed to be there?
Your entire point is centered around them not being seen by others.
Since when did you only have to wait five minutes to see a doctor either? Mine seems to be 15 minutes plus. Your doctor’s waiting rooms sound like a zoo. In mine the receptionist addresses people as they walk in the door.
Reading is hard, I said when you arrive early, go sit down for 5 mins and see if anyone says something to you. I never said the doctors wait time was 5 mins. I said go do a test for 5 mins. I assumed you couldn't spare more than 5 mins out of your busy day, but feel free to rock up 30 mins early and sit and wait. See if anyone says anything to you.
This whole argument is preposterous
Again, I'm disagreeing with your views that people seeing a psychologist need to have total privacy in the waiting room and should be ashamed of being seen waiting.
medical board rules the psychologist is breaking doing this
You have been watching too many movies. What rule have they broken? How does the OP even know they are a psychologist? Maybe they are a sex worker!? Or doing massages?
I’m just saying having a quiet word could resolve the situation without escalating it
They could. A quick knock on the door, saying hey I noticed you are using the common area as a waiting room, wondering if this is a temp thing or a ongoing arrangement? If the later, then ask has it been OK for the BC to use the common areas like that.
But instead, here we are, with a post asking randoms what they think. So what I think is yes OP should ask them or the BC if this has been approved. As for privacy etc, nothing to see here.
@JimmyF: And here is you doing an item by item argument with me when you have almost no real idea what is going on. Just bizarre. I’m offering practical advice, Maybe you just like to argue anonymously with people. The OP is wondering if this is acceptable, which it patently isn’t. If the psychologist doesn’t respond positively to the request he can look at discussing this with various bodies. I applaud the OP for looking at solutions to de-escalate rather than reporting the guy across a number of bodies first.
My entire point is that patients deserve privacy and dignity, which leaving them in common areas of the public to wait certainly isn’t, it has nothing to do with shame. Anyone could look at both our comments objectively and see that. Given the upvotes I’m getting compared to your down votes obviously other people get that.
I’m offering practical advice
Scroll up darling, you replied to my comment first, but got all twisted out of shape as I disagreed with your 'practical advice' offered.
My entire point is that patients deserve privacy and dignity, which leaving them in common areas of the public to wait certainly isn’t
As per the OP question to us all, this common area is shared by only two apartments, the OP and the therapist. There are only two apartments on the floor. So yeah I would say this waiting space is far MORE private than any therapist office. As the only public person they may remotely be there is the OP.
Also as above, the OP should have a convo with them, said that already. Not sure why you think I'm not agreeing with that. Again, what I disagree with is your comments around how people seeing a therapist are viewed and should be treated.
That would annoy me on the principle. While you could probably go to strata/council and get him to stop, or ask him to make them wait in his home/the street, that's probably gonna annoy him, and having a friendly neighbor can be worth his/her weight in gold.
I tend to think its a) not that annoying and b) if you let it be as a favour, you might be able to leverage it in the future - e.g., if you want to have a loud party or need someone to look after your plants while you're overseas.
PS. Fark me i have no idea why people on here act like its a crime to ask for advice or a different perspective.
People only post here seeking confirmation bias not perspectives.
And compensations. Dont forget, you need to get the compensations… OP has to be entitled to compensations.
You are acting like money is not part of the issue. If money was not the issue, the neighbour could rent both apartments and he can you use the landing area however he pleases. If he pays my rent I don't care how he uses the space. Alas, he does not.
Yes. His part of the common area is being permanently occupied. OF COURSE he's entitled to compensation.
Thought that they were looking for advise.
I think asking for advice before acting in an unusual situation is a good move. This isn't someone posting how much does Tirepower charge for a wheel alignment.
I'm imagining a small lift waiting area with two doors, one to your apartment and one to the psych neighbour, and people sitting in this area as you drag your groceries or bring a date through.
I would be annoyed at this too.
Separately it seems an unprofessional arrangement for the neighbour.
Perhaps ask them if they would mind asking these strangers (to you) to wait inside your neighbours apartment rather than in the common area.
You might find this is a temporary arrangement while their office is being painted, or that there is some other reason.
Totally agree. By the way, how much does Bob Jane charge for wheel alignment?
The 5 minute special or the regular alignment?
Username checks out
Walk out, beer in one hand, nothing but dirty, ill fitting jocks on, just got out of bed hair style and walk over to the closest "patient" and ask "What's going on c#%t? What are we lining up for?" and proceed to adjust "the boys" in the "waiting room".
Don't forget to crop dust just before entering your apartment.
Notting Hill fan here too, happy Valentines day.
What are we lining up for?
😂😂
Using Lift Landing Area
using his apartment as a psychology office.
Is the Psychologist's name Schindler?
Record of their patients has to be Schindler's List.
@Protractor: No, Poland is in the tents. Try to keep up.