Risks of Power Banks Exploding Midflight

johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 08:28

I've always wondered that when you take a packet of chips on an airplane, the altitude increase makes it expand like a balloon. This got me thinking: could similar pressure changes affect airtight power banks and create aviation safety issues?

There have been cases of power banks exploding or emitting smoke during flights, filling the cabin with smoke and leading to emergency landings. I can only imagine how unbearable the smoke would be. If this happened over the ocean with the nearest airport hours away, what would the course of action be?

Shouldn't airlines equip flight attendants with fireproof boxes to safely contain a smoking or burning power bank, allowing the flight to continue or land safely? What are your thoughts on this, and do you know of any existing measures airlines take to handle such situations?

Travel Power Bank

Comments

  • Hardlyworkin on 19/12/2024 - 08:35
    +13

    My thoughts are that despite having access to the internet, I am not an expert on power banks and aviation safety.

      • brad1-8tsi on 19/12/2024 - 18:23

        Then contact those that know at CASA or ATSB

  • try2bhelpful on 19/12/2024 - 08:36
    +1

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/03/03…

    The airlines stipulate you have to carry your power banks as cabin luggage so incidents like this can be monitored.

    • try2bhelpful on 19/12/2024 - 09:41
      +1

      This article talks about the fire suppression containers. Apparently brought in after the Samsung phone issues.

  • djones145 on 19/12/2024 - 08:45
    +4

    why only power banks? and not anything and everything with batteries
    what about phones, ipads, laptop, pwrsonal vibrating devices???¿??¿¿???¿??

  • pjetson on 19/12/2024 - 08:52
    +4

    If this happened over the ocean with the nearest airport hours away, what would the course of action be?

    Open a window and throw it out?

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 09:32

      yes, if only it was at peter jetson's altitude

  • Gunnar on 19/12/2024 - 08:56

    Airlines always have a John Cutter on board to handle such instances

  • DarkOz on 19/12/2024 - 08:59
    +1

    This is what lavatories in aircraft are for. Just flush it down into the ocean.

    • AlienC on 19/12/2024 - 16:04

      I always wondered about this. Does that mean if you look up at an airplane directly above you there is a chance of a fly by?

      • El cheepo on 19/12/2024 - 19:29

        No, thats just a myth.

        Commercial planes have waste storage tanks at the rear.

  • Fredfloresjr on 19/12/2024 - 09:00

    The only thing that explodes mid air is my fart

    • wannagrababargain on 19/12/2024 - 09:21
      +2

      Interestingly by the same mechanics the makes chip packets expand :)

  • wannagrababargain on 19/12/2024 - 09:11
    +3

    Packet of chips contains mostly air, a gas, at approx sea level pressure. This air 'pushes' against the chip packet when the exterior pressure is relatively lower (e.g. aircraft pressurised to equivalent of 8000ft) creating a dramatic effect because the packet is so flexible. Doesn't even need to be that high - drive from a capital city to a ski resort (approx 4500 ft) and you'll see the same effect on your chips. A sealed lithium battery cell doesn't contain much air. The cell is contained in a rigid cylinder or pouch that's more than capable of containing the miniscule amount of 'pushing' from whatever small amount of air is trapped inside. The battery cells (one or more) are mounted inside a case which is not airtight so no problem there - the pressure will equalize inside the case.

    • Boioioioi on 19/12/2024 - 09:27

      Well said. Additionally the risk of batteries exploding is not due to the altitude but battery malfunction. Lithium batteries always have this risk whether in the air or not. It is just more catastrophic if it were to happen in flight. This is why you are only allowed smaller batteries onboard. So if something does happen, the problem is small. I suspect flights also have fire containment kits if a battery does malfunction.

      • wannagrababargain on 19/12/2024 - 09:30

        Yes, was in the process of adding a PS. As you mentioned the risk of "explosion" is from an uncontrolled chemical reaction within the lithium cell which then creates its own gasses that build up pressure until the cell ruptures. The cells do have a safety valve that will go first before the case itself to release the gases, in an attempt to control the failure mode such that it's not an uncontrolled explosion throwing shrapnel everywhere. This safety valve pressure is many many times the pressure we're talking about from altitude changes.

    • isthisreallife22 on 19/12/2024 - 09:59

      A similar phenomena I've observed is that my toddlers water drink bottles turn into water pistols once the plane reaches a certain height, and I have to unscrew the lid to release the pressure

  • Cluster on 19/12/2024 - 09:12
    +1

    Yes, airline crews have fire buckets and pouches to cool and contain a burning mobile phone or battery.

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 09:34
      -1

      i searched but couldnt find anything about it online

    • ripoffmerchant on 19/12/2024 - 09:49

      Hope American airlines are ready for a class action in 20 years time after the whole plane breathes lithium char for hours in a confined space

      • Protractor on 19/12/2024 - 10:20

        They won't care.In 20 years time there won't be any law or courts left in America.
        It will resemble all the other oligarch shitholes.
        There's a lot more on our menu over the next 20 years.Class actions, not so much.

        • MrThing on 19/12/2024 - 11:49

          This is an under rated comment

      • Cluster on 19/12/2024 - 11:10

        Your average plane's air is changed every several minutes using compressed bleed air from the engines, or on the 787 it uses a bleedless system. No one will be breathing that contaminated air for hours.

  • pharkurnell on 19/12/2024 - 09:42
    +1

    Courier company we use wont air freight any device with a battery anymore moblies, laptops, computers, etc- they have to go by road..

    We thought screw that, shopped around and many companies are the same with some saying it was a new rule

    But I can take any of those devices on as carryon or check in luggage…..

    please explain

    • try2bhelpful on 19/12/2024 - 09:47

      If one of the devices starts to smoke in the cabin you will probably notice it. Sitting in the luggage carriage it might not be evident until it catches fire.

      • pharkurnell on 19/12/2024 - 10:04

        But its not like you can open the window and launch it at 30,000ft

        • try2bhelpful on 19/12/2024 - 14:26
          +1

          No, if you look at the article I posted they put them in fire suppression containment boxes.

  • MS Paint on 19/12/2024 - 10:03
    +5

    You have some pretty deep random shower thoughts OP.

    Try something like 'lamps in video games are actually using electricity'.

    I'm guessing you possibly have an up and coming long haul flight?

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 10:07
      -1

      no flights booked or planned.

      thats a good one, lamps in computer games

      • MS Paint on 19/12/2024 - 10:13

        If this happened over the ocean with the nearest airport hours away, what would the course of action be?

        Technically landing on water is still a landing/ditching in an emergency and ETOPS dictates how far a particular aircraft can be away from a suitable place to land.

        • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 11:50

          landing on water? i think you mean crash landing

          • MS Paint on 19/12/2024 - 12:01
            +1

            @johnfuller: No I don't. Ditching is a controlled emergency landing on water. It's rare thanks to reliable engines and strict ETOPS requirements.

    • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 12:58

      so lava lamps use…?

      • MS Paint on 19/12/2024 - 13:18
        +2

        Lava of course.

        • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 13:21
          +1

          yeah, but how do they get it in the lamps when it's so hot?

          • MS Paint on 19/12/2024 - 13:26
            +2

            @TheRealCher: I asked chatgpt and TIL it's not real lava.

            @johnfuller - did you know this?

            • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 15:47
              +1

              @MS Paint: Sounds like an AI hallucination. Everyone knows it's real lava in there, see if you can convince ChatGPT it's wrong.

              • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 19:30

                @Agret: and back in my day, I had real hallucinations looking at real lava lamps, none of these computery AI tesla-powered ones…

  • pharkurnell on 19/12/2024 - 10:11
    +3

    OP… Do you not think airlines would have thought of this after 20 years?

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 14:27
      -1

      im sure they think on alot of things and only act on some.

      • pharkurnell on 19/12/2024 - 15:56

        Just out of curiosity…. Things that could very well cause air disasters, do you think they could be on the list?

        • AlienC on 19/12/2024 - 16:06

          I would like to think so but then you hear about stuff like random passengers opening doors mid flight etc. Sometimes the problem needs to happen first before anything is ever done about it. That's what I noticed for example at my workplace.

          They are not preventative but reactive which is not good imho.

  • GordonD on 19/12/2024 - 10:16

    Will anyone dare fly on electric powered aircraft for fear that they'll explode like the Hindenburg! But that was probably before all you guys' time.

    • Daabido on 19/12/2024 - 14:45

      Shout out to all the late octogenarians and nonagenarians of OzBargain.

    • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 15:47

      I wonder how heavy the batteries would be to run an airliner jeez

  • rumblytangara on 19/12/2024 - 10:17
    +2

    I've always wondered that when you take a packet of chips on an airplane, the altitude increase makes it expand like a balloon.

    TIL that a packet of chips and a battery pack are the same. <shakes head>

    Even if air pressure was a concern (which it isn't):

    You realise that cabins are pressurised, right? Otherwise everyone on board would suffer from hypoxia and pass out.

    Cabin pressures are maintained to be about 2000M above sea level- in Europe you can catch gondolas up to these altitudes. It's absolutely nothing- you don't have to worry about exploding electronics when you're skiing in the French Alps.

    Batteries have also been carried as unpressurised cargo in planes since batteries have existed…. batteries exploding because of altitude is just not a thing. Look at the videos of people attaching totally stock GoPro cameras to high altitude helium balloons and going to the edge of space.

    • GordonD on 19/12/2024 - 10:23
      +1

      China has a train that has special carriages built to be pressurised because the high altitudes - over 4000 metres - it has to travel at to get to Tibet. They have medical staff to monitor passengers for altitude sickness. There were a lot of issues related to it with the workerrs constructing the railway.

      https://www.chinatibettrain.com/oxygentrain.htm

  • Protractor on 19/12/2024 - 10:24

    So the drinks trolley has no packaged containers of liquid at all,eh?

  • Caped Baldy on 19/12/2024 - 10:30
    +1

    Hi Pam

    not an issue at all. I've taken heaps of batteries on board - phones, tablets, flashlights, powerbanks, 360 camera, proper camera. They're not expanding since there's no air sealed inside.

    There was a knee-jerk reaction to dodgy batteries in e-scooters and the like igniting which caused an obvious risk. Smaller batteries (100Wh and less) not being allowed in checked-in is to allow safer management of fires and not let it destroy luggage and damage the plane.

  • Duckie2hh on 19/12/2024 - 10:54

    Shouldn't airlines equip flight attendants with fireproof boxes to safely contain a smoking or burning power bank

    and the hazmat suit to carry said burning power bank from the seat to the galley?

    • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 19:36

      or a safari suit. that would be interesting to watch as the plane plummeted from the sky and stranded 8 random oz bargainers on an island, where they followed an extension cord and eventually discovered a strange man with his cooking tools hooked up to the power socket of a neighbour….

  • brendanm on 19/12/2024 - 11:23

    The air in a chip bag is a gas. A powerbank is a solid. The pressure in a plane at altitude is lower than that of the chip bag at sea level, so the pressure in the bag is higher relative to the pressure outside it. The same thing does not happen with a solid.

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 14:25
      -2

      can you guarantee yours has no air inside? what happens when a lithium battery starts to inflate is it air or something else?

      • brendanm on 19/12/2024 - 15:18

        Good lord. It is about a 3-4psi pressure differential to start with. Secondly I don't think power banks are airtight. Thirdly, why would a slight increase in pressure differential cause them to explode? I suggest not worrying about things you don't understand.

      • rumblytangara on 19/12/2024 - 15:21
        +1

        This thread is rapidly becoming the perfect example of why Mark Twain was right.

        If you have a lithium battery that is swelling, you ditch it immediately rather than bring it onto a plane or anywhere else. The manufacturer doesn't pump air into it at the factory to emulate a balloon.

        • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 15:29
          -3

          you will guarantee all passengers will do that? do they check for swollen batteries at check-in? ofcourse not

          • brendanm on 19/12/2024 - 15:43

            @johnfuller: A swollen lithium battery has nothing to do with the reduced air pressure inside a plane. They are too very different things. You have an entire world of information at your fingertips.

            • rumblytangara on 19/12/2024 - 16:18

              @brendanm: This guy has to be trolling now. Anyone who is truly this thick IRL would barely be able to function in a modern society and all the jobs for holding the Stop/Slow signs for roadworks seem to be reserved for attractive young women (who are also no doubt brighter than this sample anyway).

  • MrThing on 19/12/2024 - 11:47
    +1

    you mean the 100,000mAh ebay specials are not safe?

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 11:50
      -3

      who knows? at one stage they banned samsung models from flights, no?

  • jv on 19/12/2024 - 14:17
    +1

    Risks of Power Banks Exploding Midflight

    3.7%

    • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 14:23
      -1

      probably even lower than that

      • jv on 19/12/2024 - 14:50

        what is the probability that it is lower?

    • Daabido on 19/12/2024 - 14:49
      +1

      Ah yes, I see you know your numbers well.

      • jv on 19/12/2024 - 14:52

        Yes, I am a numerophile…

  • foxmulder on 19/12/2024 - 14:52

    This is the reason why devices with lithium has to be in carry ons thus can be dealt with, not one down there with checked bags.

  • johnfuller on 19/12/2024 - 14:58
    -1

    If they're so safe, why don't they allow larger lithium power banks? 160Wh and larger some airlines even have a lower restriction than this

    • Cluster on 19/12/2024 - 15:29
      +2

      They are safe. I would wager there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions in homes around Australia right now and not bursting into flames.

      The problem is if a battery pack self combusts in the cargo hold it may trigger a fire that cannot be suppressed by the plane's systems. In carry on luggage it's much safer, but we still don't want enormous battery packs being carried on board and being crushed between seats. A limit has to be placed somewhere, otherwise people would happily carry car jump starter packs with them on long flights.

      • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 19:33

        and ride those wheely thingies up and down the aisle… I'm glad they banned those! yells at clouds out the window

    • El cheepo on 19/12/2024 - 19:35

      Because you need to draw a line somewhere…

      Things don’t magically get expeditiously dangerous for every wh increase, its just capped at a reasonable capacity that is practical and safe in case of emergency…

  • Counter Intelligence on 19/12/2024 - 15:45
    +1

    Is it a spicy pillow? In general, batteries don't explode because they're designed to puff up and stretch.

    Remember when you had an old Nokia phone? Everyone used to keep using the batteries until they had no charge. Almost everyone I knew had a puffy battery because they were relatively expensive to replace back then. Every kid had a spicy pillow!

    Remember Snake, anyone?

    • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 15:50

      The batteries were cheap and easy to swap, people kept them because the phones were such low power devices back then that "only" 2-3 days of battery was considered poor. I would charge my phone like every 7 days, that monochrome LCD display took nothing to run. Curious what the battery life of those e-ink display phones is like.

      • Counter Intelligence on 19/12/2024 - 16:05

        Yeah, you are right, I remember the generic batteries I got as a replacement were around $30. I can't remember how much the genuine ones cost.

        My memory is a bit fuzzy.

        I couldn't figure out why so many people kept their old batteries but back then we didn't hear any stories about them exploding.

  • TheRealCher on 19/12/2024 - 19:38

    also I hate to be the voice of reason anywhere, but apparently it's only batteries that smoke which cause hassles, which is obviously why you can't light up or vape on a plane anymore - https://avsax.com/news/what-to-do-if-a-lithium-battery-catch…

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