Should I File an ACL Claim for My MacBook Pro Which Is Completely Dead?

gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 13:52
Last edited 18/12/2024 - 14:42 by 1 other user

My 2018 15" Macbook Pro completely died last week. It spontaneously shut down and would not power on at all.

I took the laptop into the Apple Store in Chermside, QLD on Saturday the 15th of December, 2024 and they said that it's likely that the logic board would need replacing at a cost of ~$1100 (I can't remember the exact figure but it was pretty exorbitant). I bought the Macbook Pro on the 26th of August, 2019 for a cost of $4114 so it's just a touch over 5 years old with a cost/year of $822. I pushed for them to repair the laptop under their ACL obligations, but they've formally refused.

I'm of the opinion that a laptop of this price should last for longer than 5 years. Sure, if I'd bought a $1500-$2000 laptop, I'd understand that I'd be barking up the wrong tree but considering how much I paid for this laptop, I'd expect a longer duration of use and I'm thinking of filing a claim with QCAT for remediation of this issue via a no cost repair.

What are everyone's thoughts on whether I should proceed? Am I being unreasonable here?

Computing Apple Computer Laptop

Comments

  • Dollar General on 18/12/2024 - 14:03
    +40

    A $100,000 car comes with a 5 year warranty but for that price it should be a 20 year warranty

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:35
      +24

      A warranty provided by a manufacturer is not the equivalent to the rights afforded to a consumer under ACL. There are numerous examples where car manufacturers have had to offer repairs to cars over 5 years old and I remember Jeep having to repair blown engines for cars at or around 10 years old.

    • justworld on 18/12/2024 - 17:45
      +3

      I have no doubt that car warranties that last only 3 or 5 years on expensive cars are insufficient under the ACL. It depends on the nature of the defect. Something big like a blown engine I think should be repaired far beyond the warranty period (assuming normal use by the consumer) particularly for higher-priced models that are advertised as being luxury vehicles. If I bought a 911 and it suffered a major defect beyond the 3 year warranty period I'd be litigating it for sure. In this regard I think Ferrari with its 7 year warranty clearly shows up Porsche and all the other luxury brands who only offer 3-5 year warranties, and I think you'd be a mug to ever buy an extended warranty on a car like that within 7 years of manufacture.

      That said I litigate for a living and others might enjoy having the 'peace of mind' of a warranty extension.

      • mhz on 19/12/2024 - 07:48
        +4

        Warranty extensions are usually provided by a third party and aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Have a look how Harvey Norman and JB were both fined for selling them to customers.

        • psylnser on 21/12/2024 - 16:11
          +1

          Respectfully disagree, Ive had both jbhifi and car extended warranties for cars and they have paid for themselves 1.5 - 2x.

          That being said I also check which supplier is offering the 3rd party warranty, some are garbage and some are legitimately good.

      • zyj494949 on 19/12/2024 - 11:45

        Same as lexury cars, sell it before warranty ends and not your porblem

    • Hvrd on 21/12/2024 - 12:23

      The ato has car life of 8 years

  • 87percent on 18/12/2024 - 14:04
    +30

    Lodge it, can’t hurt

    • JustSomeUser on 18/12/2024 - 14:09
      +13

      I agree, lodge it now.

      Just my 2 bucks worth, but I am also of the opinion that the device/product should last longer than that, at that price.

  • geekcohen on 18/12/2024 - 14:11
    +32

    How often are you using the laptop? Daily? If so, 5 years is pretty good. ACL might say it is wear and tear.

    for a cost of $4114

    and this why I don't own a Mac. Cannot justify this cost.

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:41
      -8

      I used it daily but it was mainly for emails, web browsing etc. with some photography/video work thrown in. It was my daily driver but I just would have expected it to last longer given Apple's supposed reputation and the premium I paid for it.

      And I agree: this will definitely be my last Apple product based on my experience.

      • geekcohen on 18/12/2024 - 14:46
        +10

        Daily for 5 years is good even for Apple. When it comes to electronics, it could've lasted 2 years or it could've gone on for another 2 years. Its hard to tell. You really paid a little more of the brand and the OS.

        I wouldn't be against another Apple product, my wife loves her Macbook Pro 13". I cannot justify the cost of a highly spec'd machine for what I would want. But they are good for others that just need it for general usage with low resource requirements. If you need large resource requirement, go a Windows machine and get more bang for buck.

        That's just my view.

        • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:50
          +2

          I hear you. Thanks to a deal on here, I ordered a Lenovo Yoga Slim 7i Aura Edition (15'', Gen 9) with a 1TB HDD and 32GB RAM from their outlet store for ~$1700 since I needed a replacement laptop urgently. I can't justify the absurd cost of Apple's laptops. The equivalent Macbook would have cost 2-3 time as much.

          • geekcohen on 18/12/2024 - 15:41
            +4

            @gyrex: Perfect! You could get one of those again in 2-3 years and still be in front compared to an Apple.

            • bargainy on 21/12/2024 - 08:31
              -5

              @geekcohen:

              Perfect! You WILL get one of those again in 2-3 years and MAY be in front compared to an Apple.

            • Skinnerr on 19/12/2024 - 11:50
              +4

              @watwatwat:

              Yeah, it costs more and it's worth it, for many.

              Its funny how you don't explain at all why its worth it, 'for many', just insist that it is.

              • watwatwat on 19/12/2024 - 13:41
                -1

                @Skinnerr: Well for someone who uses their machine daily for 5 years it is worth it. I think for any business professional, for any heavy user of the machine, for anyone who wants high performance (battery, software and hardware stability), that wants to use a machine reliably for a high number of years, anyone who is seeking high resell value later on, it is worth it.

                For someone who doesn't use their laptop very often, or has a requirement to run non-mac OS services, then probably it is not worth it.

                • Assburg on 21/12/2024 - 01:37
                  +2

                  @watwatwat: I work in a multinational company that bills in 6 minute intervals and has very high productivity expectations of us and they put everyone on very expensive windows laptops….

                  I assume they probably gave productivity and bang for buck more objective thought than you've ever given anything.

              • johnno07 on 19/12/2024 - 15:21
                +4

                @Skinnerr: I use Macbooks professionally and in my experience they do age better than Windows laptops - generally. I predict this to be even more the case with Apple Silicon-based machines. Build quality is also a cut above, IMO.

                In saying this, I don't know why the heck someone would by a $4000 MacBook Pro to send emails :S

          • drfuzzy on 19/12/2024 - 23:58
            +4

            @gyrex: I have a Yoga and a Macbook Silicon. Yoga is pretty shit in comparison. I'd buy another Macbook if I was you.

      • kobeduck on 20/12/2024 - 16:19

        definitely should be your last $4k+ or 'Pro' laptop. Buy a refurb M1 if ever you reconsider that's more for your use case

      • Wilson Wallace on 21/12/2024 - 07:50

        5 years of daily use is actually quite a lot - Was this at a minimum of 6-8 hours per day? I’m assuming you’ve had the battery changed as well or wanting it changed?

    • Geoff-bargain on 18/12/2024 - 16:14
      +1

      My 2016 (but bought 2017) MBP cost 3x what I'd spent on a laptop before. But definitely worth it. Apple fixed it a couple of times for known faults and since has been perfect. Mine so far is costing about $430 a year - but each year I hold it for that drops even more.
      I've taken it on some long trips as well which can be hard on tech. I will definitely replace with another when it eventually dies.

      • 2ForTheMoney on 19/12/2024 - 17:03
        +3

        I don't think apple laptops are built any better than others. I've had a Dell latitude since 2017. Paid $550 for it as a refurb. Been going great since then. Has been dropped and travelled with many times. Only money spent on it was about $50 for upgraded ram.

        • YellowDieselGolf on 20/12/2024 - 16:24
          +3

          As someone who supported a fleet of laptops, they absolutely are built better.

          The downside is that they’re often difficult (or hostile) to repair.

    • paulojr on 21/12/2024 - 00:39
      +1

      no no no, the main degrading part is the battery and fan then followed by keyboard, a logic board failure should not occur in 5 years or really ever. OP says the claim was that a logic board had to be replaced which would be warranty.
      if your throwing out laptops at 5 years thats wrong, replace battery, refresh thermal paste if necessary and should get another 5 easily. 5 years are gen 8 cpus for intel range, lots of second hand machines being sold here on ozbargain in that category very decent spec machines.

      macbooks basically don't honour or respect consumer laws each year getting worse in how they build them to be disposable so I think go for it lodge under ACL as a repair cost that high is total BS in my view, and apple's fault for not making them repairable.

  • LanceVance on 18/12/2024 - 14:13
    +5

    Might as well lodge it. But also the repair prices at an Apple Store for repairs are going to be very high. Take it to a few other 3rd party repairers for alternative quotes. At the very least they may be able to help you recover your data.
    Years ago I had a Macbook Air fail and the independent repairer recovered my data and ended up offering to buy the machine for parts so I walked away with money in my pocket.

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:37
      +2

      Thanks for your comment. I don't care about data recovery. I used a NAS with a Time Machine backup so I've got all my data backed up. I'd just like them to repair the laptop.

      • bargainy on 21/12/2024 - 08:33

        And you’re recovering that to a Windows laptop how?

    • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 13:46

      Could take it to an alternative repairer but good luck getting Apple to cover the bill when you submit the receipt to them, they will try and fight you on it

  • trapper on 18/12/2024 - 14:16
    +16

    A laptop should last until it's obsolete, especially a $4k one.

      • LanceVance on 18/12/2024 - 15:42
        +6

        AppleCare wouldn't help here.

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:36
      +4

      This is a pretty asinine comment considering I didn't buy the laptop to look cool or hip. I bought it because it was effectively a desktop replacement and it was super powerful for its time.

      • jv on 18/12/2024 - 14:52
        +2

        it was super powerful for its time.

        It's not super powerful now though…

        • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:07

          Touché

        • Andard on 21/12/2024 - 07:23

          Actually it's the most powerful door stop to ever exist now

      • TheFreaK on 19/12/2024 - 11:51
        +6

        Doubt.

        Macbook on the Intel platform? Not particularly powerful and more than likely spent its life thermal throttled

        • ozturtle on 19/12/2024 - 13:50
          +4

          Yep, was never a desktop replacement.

  • joka on 18/12/2024 - 14:26
    +28

    I feel like an expensive computer/ laptop is expensive because its powerful and fast, not because its designed to last 30 years. Five years I'd say is pretty decent. What if you were mining crypto and pushing it to its max 24/7 for those five years, should it still be covered?

    • Ynk on 18/12/2024 - 14:35
      +4

      Agree, you can spec up a MacBook to over 11k, doesn't mean it's going to last 5 times longer than a base model. 5+ years for portable electronics is pretty good, obviously OP is unlucky but can't say I would be surprised it could happen nor expect a free repair.

      • trapper on 18/12/2024 - 18:33

        The $11k one should also last longer than 5 years though.

  • jv on 18/12/2024 - 14:38
    -3

    Should I File an ACL Claim for My MacBook Pro Which Is Completely Dead?

    How would you do that?

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:38

      QCAT

      • jv on 18/12/2024 - 14:47
        -3

        ?

        • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:52
          +3

          Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal (Small Claims)

          I'll self represent myself and it will only cost a small-ish fee to lodge the claim. Hopefully the claim itself will prompt Apple to come to the table and mediate and provide a repair.

          • jv on 18/12/2024 - 14:53
            -5

            @gyrex: Read the reviews… It is pretty bad.

            • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:55

              @jv: The reviews of what? Can you provide more context in your replies?

              Edit: The reviews of QCAT? They're an administrative tribunal. If I don't get the result I want, it goes to court and a magistrate will provide a ruling.

              • happydude on 18/12/2024 - 16:25
                -4

                @gyrex: You are prepared to take this beyond QCAT to court?

                You are in over your head. There are no circumstances where a magistrate will be involved.

                • gyrex on 19/12/2024 - 11:34
                  +4

                  @happydude: There's a lot of people on here who profess knowledge on this process and ACL but clearly have no idea what they're talking about. I've used the QCAT process previously to have a fridge repaired outside of the manufacturer's warranty period (successfully) and when mediation was unsuccessful, the case was transferred to a local court to be heard by a magistrate.

                  • happydude on 19/12/2024 - 15:38
                    -1

                    @gyrex: I would be quite surprised by that. You would only go to court to get an enforcement/appeal of a QCAT decision, not to hear a decision.

                    It looks like QCAT is physically in the Magistrates Court building, but QCAT cases are not heard by a magistrate. Are you just confused?

                    You are absolutely right about people on here who profess knowledge on this process. They clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

                    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:57
                      +3

                      @happydude: You're right, I must have been hallucinating when I appeared at Noosa Magistrates Court 4 years ago and a magistrate heard my QCAT case after mediation was unsuccessful.

                    • Ti-au on 06/01/2025 - 18:15

                      @happydude: In some regional centers Magistrate courts can rule on QCAT decisions.

                      You do go to Courts to enforce QCAT rulings.

                      However know I think it can be done over zoom, etc - this obviously depends on the State.

                      @gyrex -
                      5 years is really pushing it to expect QCAT to rule in your favour.
                      Laptops are given 2 years life by ATO (which influences effective life)
                      Desktops are given 4 years life by ATO

                      I would argue that if the average price of a macbook for 2 years is $800 (so $1,600/2) then you should expect a $4,000 laptop to last for 5 years. It is hard to beat that logic, but its really a borderline case tbh.

                      Just look at getting repaired at unofficial mac repair shop tbh.

                      • happydude on 06/01/2025 - 18:27

                        @Ti-au: I did appreciate that but in context it was said:

                        They're an administrative tribunal. If I don't get the result I want, it goes to court and a magistrate will provide a ruling.

                        and

                        the case was transferred to a local court

                        The OP appeared to be saying a QCAT decision could be appealed in the magistrates court. And that they could just appeal if they didn't like the outcome, which isn't true - an appeal can only be made on an error in law and/or facts.

                        While it could have been heard by a magistrate sitting as a member of QCAT, the decision is done so under administrative power rather than judicial. It is still a decision of QCAT rather than the magistrates court. So the case was never 'transferred to a local court' - its still QCAT.

                        If OP even knew some correct terminology I might have been able to follow along better.

            • Miami Mall Alien on 19/12/2024 - 13:16
              +8

              @jv:

              Read the reviews… It is pretty bad.

              Have you ever read your own comments? They're pretty bad too.

            • Chandler on 19/12/2024 - 17:41
              +1

              @jv: People are always more likely to leave negative feedback on the internet than positive feedback.

              Doubly so for a place that literally is there to deal with feedback on other businesses…

              • jv on 20/12/2024 - 00:11

                @Chandler:

                People are always more likely to leave negative feedback on the internet than positive feedback.

                Why?

                • Chandler on 20/12/2024 - 12:13
                  +1

                  @jv: That's a good question.

                  People always happy to complain?
                  Differences in thresholds to provide bad vs good feedback? (i.e. bad feedback is typically left for even slightly bad experiences, whereas good feedback is only left for really good experiences)

                  • jv on 20/12/2024 - 12:53

                    @Chandler:

                    People always happy to complain?

                    Is that an indictment to today's society?

  • zombrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:46
    +10

    The fact they did not even look at it shows how little they care.
    They aim to quote a high repair cost to hope you will just buy a new one.
    As others had said take it to a proper rerpair shop, they will actually look at it and likely be able repair it.

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:54
      +2

      Yeh, it's really turned me off Apple and I won't be buying any more of their products. I'll lodge a claim via QCAT since the consensus on here seems that it's reasonable for Apple to repair the laptop given how much it cost.

      • lunchbox99 on 18/12/2024 - 14:59
        -3

        You think if you buy a dell, hp, Lenovo, MS and it dies after 4 years they will repair it for free? lfmao…

        • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:04
          +4

          I don't think you understand how ACL works.

          • lunchbox99 on 18/12/2024 - 18:04
            -3

            @gyrex: Well one of us doesn't.. thats for sure.

            Be sure to report back if you get your laptop fixed for free.

        • knobbs on 19/12/2024 - 10:56
          +1

          For comparable hardware it would also cost less. Part of the Apple tax is supposed to be quality, IE lasts longer.

          • lunchbox99 on 19/12/2024 - 11:13
            -3

            @knobbs: There is zero chance ACL is going to force warranty of a laptop over 5 years old. None. Zero. Nada.

            • knobbs on 19/12/2024 - 12:00
              +1

              @lunchbox99: ACL don't do the enforcing but yeah I don't think there is close to a 0 chance. I am thinking it will be a 50/50, it is sort of in that middle ground that could go either way. This is a "premium" brand that is marketed to be better. I think if the OP goes through with it cheapest case scenario for apple would be a free repair before it goes to court. If apple want to stick them the middle finger they will take it to court.
              I have had letters sent to me from apple legal before trying to get them to repair a known defect on my wife's phone. It was 3yrs old and they basically said get *****. Wish I took that to QCAT

              • lunchbox99 on 19/12/2024 - 12:06
                +2

                @knobbs: I disagree. The chance is zero. Over 5 years is a long time for a laptop. The fact that they can last double that time doesn't mean the manufacturer has to warranty the item that long. It would be like arguing that because there are 25yo Camrys on the road that Toyota is somehow obligated to make all Camrys last 25 years. Its stupid logic.

                RE price, as someone else posted elsewhere here, ACCC themselves say:

                "However, a higher price is not the only criteria for determining the reasonable durability of a good. There are many factors that affect the price of a good. A good will generally be more expensive if it is scarce or highly valued. For example, a gold bracelet may cost a lot because gold is a relatively scarce and desirable material, but because gold is a soft metal it may not be as durable as a cheaper steel bracelet.Therefore, you cannot always expect a high priced good to be more durable than a cheaper good only because of the price you paid for it. Similarly, just because you bought a good cheaply does not necessarily mean that you should expect it to last less time than higher-priced but otherwise equivalent goods."

                • knobbs on 19/12/2024 - 12:15
                  +1

                  @lunchbox99:

                  It would be like arguing that because there are 25yo Camrys on the road that Toyota is somehow obligated to make all Camrys last 25 years. Its stupid logic.

                  The difference I feel is that Toyota aren't charging a premium for a 'better' product like Apple are doing. I believe Apple products should be lasting longer as they charge a premium for similarly specced other products.

                  I am not arguing price by itself is the whole push for this. As many others have said you can add upgrades and bump up the performance on many things which will increase the cost, but should not increase the warranty period. That said as I have been saying, Apple's base model with similar specs to other devices is at a higher cost premium. They market them as being better, so using that logic yes Apple products should last longer. I have never stated overall price is the reason it should be covered, I keep referring back to the premium Apple charge.

                  If I were OP I would find out what the base price model was from when they bought it without any added upgrades, compare that to other products with similar specs and then show that you paid X Apple tax/premium over the other products to get a more durable product that should still be covered under warranty/ACL.

                  • lunchbox99 on 19/12/2024 - 13:34
                    +1

                    @knobbs: Mate that ACCC statement is unambiguous. It says that price is not necessarily correlated with durability of goods. You pay extra for premium products all the time and it has nothing to do with it lasting longer.

                    In any case, happy to be proven wrong but if I was the tribunal member I would reject a 5+ year old laptop warranty claim. Sure they do often last longer but that is a bonus, nothing more.

                • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 13:49
                  +2

                  @lunchbox99: Really? I do consumer level IT support and the majority of laptops I am working on daily are over 5yrs old. Not sure where you got the idea that most of them won't last? Main things that wear out in them are the battery and the storage drive which are easy replacements.

                  • lunchbox99 on 19/12/2024 - 14:25
                    +1

                    @Agret: This is a common misunderstanding. The life of a product is not the same as what it’s warranted life should cover (acl or otherwise). We are talking about the life that the manufacturer is deemed to have failed to meet their obligations.

                    Once again, just because Camrys last 25years that doesn’t mean Toyota is on the hook for 25 years.

    • jv on 18/12/2024 - 14:54
      -3

      how little they care.

      To care, you need to pay for applecare…

      • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 14:54
        +1

        Absurd, isn't it…

        • jv on 18/12/2024 - 15:15
          -7

          Apple includes a 2 year warranty with the purchase. If you want more, you need to pay for it.

          • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:18
            +10

            @jv: You should probably familiarise yourself with your rights under ACL. A warranty provided by a manufacter does not absolve said manufacturer of their obligations under ACL.

            • jv on 18/12/2024 - 15:19
              -4

              @gyrex: ACL does not specify what number of years the warranty of a laptop should be.

              • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:29
                +3

                @jv: You don't say… Yet you confidently made a post below stating how many years laptops should be covered under ACL. Dunning-Kruger in full force here.

                • jv on 18/12/2024 - 15:50

                  @gyrex:

                  Yet you confidently made a post below stating how many years laptops should be covered under ACL.

                  That is just my opinion on what I'd consider reasonable. It is not enforceable in a court of law…

              • mhz on 19/12/2024 - 08:23
                +3

                @jv: "Statutory rights have no set time limit – depending on the price and quality of goods, consumers may be entitled to a remedy after any manufacturers’ or extended warranty has expired"

  • neo on 18/12/2024 - 14:57
    +3

    To make things worse, could be something so simple and easy to replace on the board. I like watching those videos of the guy in the U.S that changes one capacitor and their 4k brick is now working again.

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:00
      +5

      Yeh, I watch a lot of Louis Rossman's videos since I love electronics, soldering, repairs, building stuff etc. He's been a prolific opponent of Apple for years. Apple's products are disgraceful when it comes to repairs.

      • neo on 18/12/2024 - 15:01
        +1

        If you get nowhere you should give it a go!

        Plug her in, get a IR camera and start looking for RED. Could be something simple :)

    • Agret on 19/12/2024 - 14:09
      +1

      Wish we had people like that here in Melbourne, I get a lot of jobs in that are just failed in one part of the board but I have to order boards from aliexpress and just replace the whole thing. Only guys I know that do motherboard repair charge $350 for it and only guarantee it for 7 days, i've taken a few things to them and it has worked but it's often less than $350 to get a whole other board from China.

  • tsunamisurfer on 18/12/2024 - 15:05
    +3

    OP, how many years do you think is reasonable to no longer be covered by ACL?

    • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:15
      -7

      Really good question… I guess if a $1500-2000 laptop should last maybe 3 years at a cost of ~$650/year, a laptop which cost >$4000 should last maybe 6 years at the same cost/year?

      • jv on 18/12/2024 - 15:17
        +18

        at the same cost/year?

        Cost has nothing to do with it…

        Why would 64Gb RAM last 8 times more than 8GB RAM ???

          • jv on 18/12/2024 - 15:28
            +9

            @gyrex:

            It has everything to do with it.

            Nope…

            I would not expect an i9 processor to last longer than an i5…

            • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:33
              -1

              @jv: https://imgur.com/dP6fEcv

              I mean, I knew you were obtuse based on comments I've seen in other threads, but I didn't realise you were this obtuse.

              • coffeeinmyveins on 18/12/2024 - 15:37
                +11

                @gyrex: jv is a known troll, but i actually agree with them here. you're on a high horse thinking that because you got higher spec that it should last longer.

                You think a Ferrari has a 5000 year warranty because it costs so much more than a Mazda?

                • gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 15:39
                  -1

                  @coffeeinmyveins: From memory, I think it was pretty much a base model at the time. Maybe I upgraded the RAM from 8GB to 16GB for a nominal amount but the base price wasn't much cheaper than what I got.

              • scrambledeggs on 20/12/2024 - 10:27

                @gyrex: Key wording in this snip being (if relevant)

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