Should I File an ACL Claim for My MacBook Pro Which Is Completely Dead?

gyrex on 18/12/2024 - 13:52
Last edited 18/12/2024 - 14:42 by 1 other user

My 2018 15" Macbook Pro completely died last week. It spontaneously shut down and would not power on at all.

I took the laptop into the Apple Store in Chermside, QLD on Saturday the 15th of December, 2024 and they said that it's likely that the logic board would need replacing at a cost of ~$1100 (I can't remember the exact figure but it was pretty exorbitant). I bought the Macbook Pro on the 26th of August, 2019 for a cost of $4114 so it's just a touch over 5 years old with a cost/year of $822. I pushed for them to repair the laptop under their ACL obligations, but they've formally refused.

I'm of the opinion that a laptop of this price should last for longer than 5 years. Sure, if I'd bought a $1500-$2000 laptop, I'd understand that I'd be barking up the wrong tree but considering how much I paid for this laptop, I'd expect a longer duration of use and I'm thinking of filing a claim with QCAT for remediation of this issue via a no cost repair.

What are everyone's thoughts on whether I should proceed? Am I being unreasonable here?

Computing Apple Computer Laptop

Comments

  • Foosa on 19/12/2024 - 17:30
    +2

    In case you dont proceed with Apple repair, we have the expert PCB repairer Paul Daniels who lives here in QLD. Ask him for a quote mentioning the symptoms. He is a genius. Louis Rossman(Youtube channel) goes on and on about the software/tools developed the Paul on his Youtube channel. Website here PLDaniels

    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:44

      Thanks for the link. I'll potentially pursue it if my QCAT claim fails.

  • Ruddaga on 19/12/2024 - 18:25
    +2

    Is this trolling or legit?

    You got it in 2018 and it lasted 6 years!

    Mate, do not buy any new tech because you're going to be in for a shock because they sure don't make them like they used to, Macbooks included.

    • drfuzzy on 20/12/2024 - 00:07
      +2

      looks troll to me

      or person with excessive time on their hands

    • SpainKing on 20/12/2024 - 12:20
      +1

      Purchased 2019*

  • DazMon on 19/12/2024 - 20:40
    +1

    Apple really knew what they were doing a few decades ago, I'm running 2x Mac Pro 2010 models and they run sweet, also we have a 2012 iMac running great, I was running 2x 2008 machines but needed High Sierra OS, they really made quality machines back then, not sure what happened?

  • mskeggs on 19/12/2024 - 21:58

    I would be frustrated to have a dead 5yr laptop, but you can likely replace the motherboard for $300-$400 if you buy a used system with a cracked screen.
    Claiming ACL for products near end of life just drives up costs for manufacturing, and they pass them on to all of us.
    If you go to QCAT you will waste a day, plus the filing fee and possibly get an outcome. Plus you cost the taxpayer to provide your pulpit, cost Apple to defend, and waste a lot of people’s time and money.

    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:47
      +1

      You seem to object to the notion of someone exercising their rights under Australian Consumer Law… I'm of the mind that I'm well within my rights to challenge Apple's decision that their premium laptops have a 5 year lifespan. I've got PCs I built 10 years ago for a quarter of the price which are still running after 24/7 use.

      • mskeggs on 21/12/2024 - 08:47

        Nope. Just considering what a reasonable lifespan for a device is, and having a bit of thought for how to resolve things efficiently.

  • drfuzzy on 20/12/2024 - 00:06

    You can go down the xCAT path if you have unlimited time to waste.

    You seem to know enough about the process not to have to ask here, so it seems a somewhat redundant thread.

    As you are already aware, Apple might fix it just to get rid of you so they can close the case.

  • Wayne7497 on 20/12/2024 - 02:11
    +2

    Send it to Paul Daniels Australias resident macbook guru
    https://pldaniels.com/

  • AG_ACT on 20/12/2024 - 08:44
    +1

    I was pretty upset when Apple told me they wouldn't cover my airpods pro with the crackle in them because they were more than "2 years old". In my opinion, it's a known fault, and should be covered under ACL. Anyways, I gave up because, well, to be fair, they were 2 years old. Similarly, for me 5 years is a reasonable time for a Macbook Pro so personally I wouldn't be going down xCAT route. If it was a common known fault, I might have a different opinion.

    Having said all of that, MacBook Pros from 2018 and later can run macOS 15 Sequoia, so clearly Apple don't believe the machine is quite EOL yet either, so if you do go down that route, I don't think it's fair to say you are being unreasonable.

    Good luck, and please report back

    • zyj494949 on 20/12/2024 - 10:17

      Same boat here. The crackle sound issue in airpods pro will build up eventually and they won't cover the repair at that point. You can still use it as a normal airpods without noise cancelling lol.
      I switched to pixel buds and see how it goes after years…

  • kokita on 20/12/2024 - 09:57

    5 years old of Apple products are considered legacy by them. However, there were many Apple cases happened in the past due to manufacturing issues that resulted of free repair/replacement.

    • MrThing on 20/12/2024 - 15:15

      Legacy aka Landfill

  • kokita on 20/12/2024 - 09:59
    +1

    Use this link to check if you are eligible for free repair out of warranty. https://checkcoverage.apple.com/

  • Oz em on 20/12/2024 - 10:05

    I would as I’ve had a lot of luck getting products refunded in full out if warranty.
    I would keep pushing them to repair or replace by email too.

  • scrambledeggs on 20/12/2024 - 10:34
    +3

    Absolutely ridiculous to expect them to repair a 6year old laptop FOC in my opiniion

  • kaleidoscope on 20/12/2024 - 13:38

    My 2018 15" Macbook Pro completely died last week
    What are everyone's thoughts on whether I should proceed? Am I being unreasonable here?

    I know they're not cheap and it sucks when that happens, but after all it's a 6-year-old laptop no matter what… Apple has also stopped producing these intel based crapbook pros, and it's a crime against humanity to use one these days…

  • quick-dry on 20/12/2024 - 13:54
    +2

    I think a battery failure at that time frame is annoying, but reasonable to claim as wear and tear on a consumable.

    5 years on a moving part, hinge or fan died due to wear and tear.. ok, it's annoying but for a reasonable part cost it's not so bad… but solid state electronics from a premium supplier who bills themselves as a premium supplier shouldn't be dead so quickly IMO. I'd be pushing for repair

  • MrThing on 20/12/2024 - 15:14
    -1

    you bought an overpriced hype product from a brand that doesn't understand the terminology "right to repair" and it broke

    sucks to be you

    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:30

      I hear what you're saying and I agree with you and share your same ire for Apple with regard to their failure to adhere to "right to repair" standards but it's a little childish to rub my nose in a decision I made 5 years ago.

  • Brick Tamland on 20/12/2024 - 15:45
    +2

    My MacBook fried its logic board and screen at just under 3 years. Both got replaced under warranty but the repair sheet was like $2k of repairs. It almost seems like a design fault that a logic board can render it useless, maybe the need to be built with better repairability.

    Saying that, 5 years is a pretty decent run. I'd be expecting any laptop to be effectively at the end of its useful life at 5 years.

    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:39

      This will be the 2nd or 3rd logic board replacement on my Macbook Pro. They are, without a doubt, the most unreliable/prone to failure mainboard I've ever come across.

      • Brick Tamland on 21/12/2024 - 08:39

        Mine is the pro to. Frustratingly the screen broke on my mine 2 days after the new screen was put in and they refused to fix it. Will probably be my last MacBook or at least my last expensive one.

  • haemolysis on 20/12/2024 - 15:54
    +1

    Respect for attempt to try it on, but 5-6 years …for a laptop… haha, good luck. That’s a lifetime. Those models are from the Intel chip days.

  • Logical on 20/12/2024 - 15:56

    Laptops can be easily abused eg kept running hot etc and can lead to premature wear and tear. You have a high mountain to pass to be successful in any claim for warranty repair, i'd say around 5% success if at that.

  • pandadude on 20/12/2024 - 23:13

    ACL is a waste of your time unless your willing to take legal action against the business who sold you the product. This is assuming they already refused to work with you.

    Do you have the money to spend on getting experts in the field to attention court to argue you point that the product did not last a reasonable period of time.

    ACCC is a waste of time for an individual matter as they do not take actions for individual.

    Consumer Protection in your state is a lion without teeth. They can roar but can not enforce individual matter.

    This leads back to my orginal points do you have the time and money to take the matter to court?

    For the majority of consumers we do not have lawyers on call but many business would. Also those businesses are more likely to get the support of manufacturers.

    • gyrex on 20/12/2024 - 23:37
      +1

      ACL is a waste of your time unless your willing to take legal action against the business who sold you the product

      Certainly not a waste of time. I've used ACL previously for positive outcomes. I've already commenced legal action and served my claim against them via QCAT.

      Do you have the money to spend on getting experts in the field to attention court to argue you point that the product did not last a reasonable period of time.

      I don't need experts. Administrative tribunals in each state are designed around self representation and minimal cost/effort for the claimant.

      ACCC is a waste of time for an individual matter as they do not take actions for individual.

      I've never mentioned anything about the ACCC, not sure what they've got to do with consumer rights under ACL.

      Consumer Protection in your state is a lion without teeth. They can roar but can not enforce individual matter.

      Not in my experience. NCAT/QCAT have provided positive outcomes for previous matters relating to claims made under ACL.

      do you have the time and money to take the matter to court?

      Yep, $150 and a couple of hours at my local court house - well worth it IMO. I can also claim the cost of lodging the $150 claim with QCAT so this will cost me nothing if I win.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 21/12/2024 - 03:44

        You should have made this a poll.
        I've scanned through this and despite a lot of people saying I think its warranted life is up, you pretty much just seem to be justifying why you've already made up your mind to lodge a claim, so not sure you are really interested in opinions for your original post question?

        Reading through it, it seems to me many on here either agree: (1) Over 5 years is long enough for warranted and any longer is a bonus / luck; or (2) many people are in the just try your luck anyway and see how you go. As for option (3) … there's not too many informed people outraged thinking you have been ripped off by getting over 5 years out of a laptop to the point you should definitely have received warranty replacement, and pursue and win legal action. Sure it was expensive but you made that choice for its specs. Once you get over $2K to put you into high-end laptop range, I can't say most people spend more on laptops for longer life, or that the manufacturer makes such claims to justify that price point, its normally upgrades / performance promoted.

        However, the fact that the mainboard has had to be replaced several times is quite important as it shows it was dud from the get go. However if they have fixed it before they've probably been considered to have honoured their ACL obligations to a degree.
        I'd suggest the reality is, if you make a claim, sure yes you may get something to make you go away and because they may see some advantage in trying to keep you as a future customer. At that age, it will be a token amount, not a full replacement, and with all your time and stress involved and the $150 gamble plus the time - I don't really think you should.

      • pandadude on 21/12/2024 - 22:58

        Your answer itself proves my point.

        An individual has to be willing and able to take legal action against a business to enforce ACL.

        Consumer Protection or the ACCC does not take on individual matters.

        You as a consumer had to lodge the case in NCAT/QCAT. Did the consumer protection in your state lodge the complain for you? Did the ACCC lodge the matter on your behalf?

        I am going to assume you personally lodge the case yourself. So how does your experience disprove my statement?

        Going to NCAT/QCAT is a form of legal action.

        If your so certain about the result how about you share your case with everyone here. The courts will use previous case law as a precedent in your case.

  • happychappy1 on 21/12/2024 - 01:49
    -1

    You've probably mistreated it somehow - either knowingly or unknowningly. Just suck it up, get a new one and treat it better, it's 6 years old at this point. I have computers that are over 10 years old still going strong - because they've been well maintained and treated.

    • gyrex on 21/12/2024 - 03:24

      Not a scratch on it and it's 5 years old. I've also got computers over 10 years old still going strong after 24/7 use as security camera servers - they're not macs though.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 21/12/2024 - 03:57
        +1

        Servers / Computers are not laptops - laptops are always less life due to compact nature of design / poorer cooling, and being transported around / bumped etc.

        Straight from ACCC guidance on the consumer guarantee: Acceptable Quality and the meaning of durability:

        "The type of good and its use
        The type of good and how the good is used can also impact upon a good’s durability.
        For example goods that are more portable or contain complex components would generally be reasonably expected to last for a shorter time period than goods that are stationary and relatively simple. This is because a reasonable consumer would be likely to expect portable goods to be subject to more wear and tear through normal use of the good"

        It then gives an example:
        Billy and Maya each visit an electronics retailer on the same day. Billy buys a new refrigerator while Maya purchases a new mobile phone, each for the same price. After 3 years both products develop faults and stop working.
        Billy’s fridge is unlikely to be reasonably durable because a reasonable consumer would expect a refrigerator to last longer than 3 years. On the other hand, Maya’s phone may be reasonably durable because a reasonable consumer may not expect a mobile phone to last longer than 3 years given the portability of a mobile phone means it is likely to be subject to greater wear than a refrigerator.

        I would say this example gives you the best example of how ACCC sees a portable electronic device - 3 years. A server is not in this category.

        Unfortunately it doesn't give an example for a high end laptop, but that same document states this example:
        "Li Wei buys a basic laptop which comes with a 12‑month manufacturers’ warranty. The laptop’s central processing unit and battery stop working one year and six months after purchase. It is likely Li Wei could claim the laptop is not of acceptable quality under the ACL because it is not reasonably durable. This is because a reasonable consumer would expect a laptop to last for longer than 18 months, despite the manufacturer’s warranty having expired."

        … there's a big jump from 18 months expectation for a basic laptop, 3 years for a phone (e.g. Apple also), to your expectation for over 5.5 years for a high end laptop still being considered unreasonable durability. It's only the repeat failures prior that help you argue it was flawed and never lasted long enough, so maybe you need to argue the original remedy of logic board replacements was not good enough, and it should have been replaced in entirety with a different model "of acceptable quality (for the price)" back then maybe??? Otherwise, I just really can't see you having much success on the 'durability' (i.e. lifespan) argument alone. The (un)acceptable quality argument would need to establish a history of problems over the 5 years.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 21/12/2024 - 04:17

      I'm not sure its considered mistreated, its just an expectation as the ACCC puts it that complex more portable goods last for a shorter period by nature due to being subject to more wear and tear through normal use than simple stationary goods that are relatively simple and receive less bumps and movement - e.g. a desk vs a laptop in normal use.

  • hypie on 21/12/2024 - 03:29

    $4000+ for 4 years? Seems perfectly reasonable to expect it would last longer than 4 years. I would be upset if the product (probably in the top 10% of consumer laptops by price) failed due to a manufacturing failure in 4 years.

    What argument will apple make? It is a laptop, it is expected to fail in five years. You should be replacing your $4000 laptop every 4 years.

    Most people don't understand or have not bothered reading up on ACL.

    My Dell XPS13 motherboard died this year (purchased in 2019). Dell repaired it without any concerns. I could have argued major failure, but I wanted some unpacked up data back.

    Edit: seems like it was 6 years, a little more of a stretch, but you have a case.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 21/12/2024 - 03:47

      It's closer to 6 year old model owned for 5.5 years - c'mon, its a laptop. That's well known to be about its lifespan regardless of price which yes under ACL puts you in an expectation of a higher category of durability, but it has its limits at just 'high-end' - after that it only buys higher specs, not longer life. Unless they made bold advertising statements about it being for a longer durability, lasting forever or something to justify that cost. However I'm guessing their advertising was mostly about performance not lifespan.

      • hypie on 21/12/2024 - 10:38

        Where are you getting this detail from regarding ACL? I have never seen any explanation on how they categorise durability of products? I have always found the law deliberately vauge.

        When that product was released also should have no relevance to ACL.

        Why is the lifespan of a laptop 2-3 years though? Because they didn't design it to last longer?

        Laptop lasting 2-3 years has been our historical expectation of durability due to the limitations of battery technology. I don't think it was because the motherboard was expected to fail?

  • serpserpserp on 21/12/2024 - 07:41

    $4,000 is standard cost for a Mac, when it gets over $10,000 that is considered expensive for a Mac buyer.

    • bargainy on 21/12/2024 - 08:51
      +2

      No Mac other than the Mac Pro is over $2500 for base model.

  • imme1386 on 21/12/2024 - 10:38
    +1

    I have 18 years computer technician experience and can safely say 3-5 years is what you would expect from a laptops fair use life expectancy, some people are lucky and get upto 10 years, but after 5 years parts start to degrade, become slower especially after daily use.

    (My personal gaming pc is reaching 6 years now and is showing signs of degredation and slowing down, im happy with the time i got from it and will be replacing it soon.

    Being just outside 5 years you can certainly try claim but the laptop would not even be worth $250 now given its age it would be better to just replace it, dont spend $4100 on a mac when the same specs in a pc can set you back roughly $2800, yes some pcs can run apple OS when done right.

    • hypie on 21/12/2024 - 10:45
      +1

      What parts physically degrade and why? Over 5-6 years as well?

      • imme1386 on 21/12/2024 - 11:12
        +2

        Yes, physical parts degraded, psu is starting to not discharge when turned off, gpu ports dropping out, case buttons breaking, internal cables drying out and cracking from heat inside the case, Ram failling, plenty of issues generally occur after 3 years from excessive use and electrical heat.

    • Daabido on 21/12/2024 - 13:48

      Most people who enjoy just using a Mac are not interested in a Hackintosh and keeping it up to date. You should know that.

      Can I do it? Yes, and I have. Is it enjoyable? No. Would I wish it upon someone who hasn't be mucking around with hardware for 40 years? Never.

  • Hvrd on 21/12/2024 - 12:24

    I have a 2013 macbook pro going strong with daily use but id say 5 years is reasonable to accept

  • drprox on 21/12/2024 - 12:51

    I'd push and negotiate. May be able to meet half way. I agree it's sortve minimum expectation for a laptop at that cost (pre COVID-flation and all!)

  • changa on 21/12/2024 - 13:56
    +1

    IMHO 5 years of use for a laptop is fine. I would be upset if it stopped working or developed a fault, but I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to be on the hook for warranty repairs. By their very nature of being portable devices, you can reasonably expect them to have a shorter life than a non portable computer.

  • Dyl on 21/12/2024 - 14:57
    +1

    A laptop lasts 3 years under consumer law. End of discussion.

    I've claimed two replacements outside of warranty under consumer law and 3 years is just the benchmark.

    It's not "I could squeeze 5 years out of this under ideal circumstances", it's what the reasonable consumer expects from the product. Businesses replace laptops on a 3 year cycle usually, anything more and they're squeezing life out of them through replacement parts out of pocket.

    • MrMoo on 21/12/2024 - 17:06

      Yer but this is Ozbargain. I think I Saw a post about a fridge breaking after 8 years and wanting to pursue ACL.

      Basically if things don't last 10 + years it's ACL time.

      • Dyl on 22/12/2024 - 09:49

        Fridges used to last a life time so they'd have more of a claim to bat at least, I think more 5 years for white goods if you're lucky though

        Laptops were almost almost 3 years before you're clawing at extra time out of them

        • MrMoo on 22/12/2024 - 14:37

          While that is true, it depended on the brand of fridge. The guy bought some random budget chinese brand. You get what you pay for, except on Ozbargain where you get what you expect no matter what you paid.

  • realaaa on 21/12/2024 - 15:00

    indeed have they even tried regular things like reset SMC, and what not etc?

    could be just a totally flat battery which carked itself, this could be a very easy fix

    • gyrex on 23/12/2024 - 09:31
      +1

      Resetting the SMC and PRAM only works if the laptop powers on. Yes, I tried that and I also tried jump starting the laptop into DFU mode using another macbook and a usb-c cable. The Apple technician at the store said that it won't boot and it's likely an issue with the logic board.

  • scooba on 21/12/2024 - 18:43

    Where'd you buy the machine from OP?

    The 2018 15" MBP was discontinued in May 2019, so I'm guessing you got it secondhand if you bought it on the 26th of August 2019?

    Also, that machine is still compatible with the latest version of Mac OS, so in my opinion, yes it should be repaired because typically the device should outlast the software support.

    • gyrex on 23/12/2024 - 09:31

      Bought it brand new from Wireless1.

      • scooba on 23/12/2024 - 20:22

        Ah that might be why Apple doesn't want to help you, because you bought it from a third party seller after that model was discontinued. File an ACL claim and see what happens, but I bet Apple will say that & wipe their hands of it.

        Damn shame though because it's probably on its last year of official OS support into 2025 and then another year or two of security updates.

        The pitfalls of buying old machines from third party sellers I guess and you probably wouldn't have been able to get AppleCare on it either as it was discontinued.

        At least you got five years out of it if you don't get anywhere with your claim which is more than I can say for most PC manufacturers.

      • happydude on 06/01/2025 - 18:45
        -1

        Oh dear, you bought it from Wireless1 and have made a claim against Apple to repair it?

        Please read and understand s 271/272 of the ACL. Manufactures are never under any obligation to provide a repair, only damages generally calculated on the reduction in the value of the goods. So if it is worth $800 prior to failing and it is worth $200 now as parts, you are looking at a max of $600.

        I pushed for them to repair the laptop under their ACL obligations, but they've formally refused.

        Yeah, there is no obligation for repair if they didn't sell it. That obligation is on the supplier.

  • SpicyStew on 21/12/2024 - 23:30

    why would you want replacement of something that breaks.
    if you buy another apple you're the idiot.

    also logic boards have zero moving parts.

  • Guerilla89 on 22/12/2024 - 03:13
    +1

    I previously worked as a laptop warranty repair technician, 5 years is pretty much the expected lifespan of laptop, regardless of its price. Yes, Apple makes their devices hard to repair. Yes, every major manufacturer uses planned obsolescence (some more than others but all do). You can buy devices specifically designed to be repairable but the price almost outweighs the benefit and most people don't want to muck around with repairs.

    Go the QCAT route if you wish to spend your time "sticking it to the man", it's the right to do, it's also likely to be low return on your time. The most efficient way to spend your time and money if you wish to see the future of repairable laptops though is to go with something like the framework laptop. Personally I like to just buy second-hand Dell laptops as they are the most repairable, at the best cost of the big producers. If I cared more about spending money in a way that would support a better future though, I'd go with the framework, I'm just too cheap.

  • unitato on 22/12/2024 - 13:07

    Doesn't consumer law only cover you for 3 years on a laptop?

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