The ESV Church Bible is an affordable, practical choice for churches to use as part of their weekly worship services or outreach, featuring all-new typesetting, a durable cover, woodfree paper, and a sewn binding.
CamelCamelCamel.
@UberIsCool: Whether someone is bad or not is purely subjective and or just a matter of semantics. What matters is should there be consequences. By saying that the sin is bad and not the person you imply that no punishment should be given so long as they ask forgiveness. Should we not lock people up for murdering a stranger? Terrorism? What about pedos? I only care about societies value judgements of good or bad to the extent that they form societies response to those actions.
@gakko: Comprehension is not your strength, is it gakko?
Murder, terrorism and paedophilia are crimes.
"Hating" "trans" people is not a crime.
We don't - nor should - prosecute thoughtcrimes.
@Gamer Dad Reviews: Thanks for starting with a personal insult.
Uberiscool talked about crimes in the same vein as sin, which roughly makes sense in the context of our conversation, so I responded. You are arguing against a point no one here is making.
@UberIsCool: I've yet to murder someone, do I have that to look forward to? Adultery could be fun too.
@miwahni: ‘If you have harbored anger, contempt, or malice toward someone else, you are guilty. Have you ever wished someone harm or, even worse, wished they were dead? Have you ever rejoiced over someone’s misfortune? Have you ever put someone down in your heart? Then your heart has known murder’
It’s not always the physical act, it’s generally what is in your heart
God hates the sin AND the sinner, i.e. "evildoers."
Psalm 5:4-5 - For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil cannot dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.
However, the focus of the bible is that we are all sinners and it is only through Jesus Christ that we are forgiven for our sins because he died and took the punishment for our sins. We need Jesus because our sin makes us unacceptable to God, who is holy.
So whether you think God hates the sinner or just the sin, the result is the same — It is only through Jesus Christ that we are saved, and freely at that. We just need to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
Romans 5:8 - but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Ephesians 2:4-10 - But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Yes, Christians are still sinful, and often disappointingly so, but most importantly — forgiven and adopted into God's family because of Jesus.
Remember these people that follow religion may want to do good, but the system they are in can be a problem, they only see black or white no 50 shades of grey
Moses is supposedly the "Humblest person" who ever lived, yet he wrote the first 5 books and a lot about himself. Also seeing burning bushes (god) taking too much magic mushrooms
Abraham heard voices from "god" saying to sacrifice and kill his son, if today this would have happened, would be sent to a mental asylum or even prison
King David heard voices from "god" telling him to kill actual races of people eg all canaanites, Jebusites, Hittites, first example of REAL genocide and what happened in WW2 - Karma
Jesus (a Fundamentalist" states "I came to the world not to bring peace but a sword" in the book of matthew, no wonder he was crucified, no wonder his radical followers were fed to the lions….. No wonder just stated "facts" from this "book"
Also slavery and racism all came from the believe that black and coloured people are of lesser value and should be subjected, when Noah cursed his son Ham (when Noah had incest) to become black
‘ While Genesis 9 never says that Ham was black, he became associated with black skin, through folk etymology deriving his name from a similar, but actually unconnected, word meaning "dark" or "brown"’
ahh yes… the old pick out of context
Religion and Politics, two topics that should never be debated.
It fuels so much hate from both sides of the coin.
The counterspeech doctrine,
more speech, not silence
Talk more - less hate. Done.
Are they not both religion though?
While polotics has a lot of brainless followers, it is inherently important, as it affects most aspects of life. Religion is a vestige of unenlightened times.
You mean exactly like that other religion was back in the day?
"Religion is a vestige of unenlightened times."
Nope it's still here in full force and hasn't gone away, it's merely that the objects of worship have changed.
@EightImmortals: A world without religion is possible, but not likely in the context of how most of humanity is conditioned. A world without politicis is entirely impossible - even horrid, absolute systems like North Korea have politics. Though I agree a lot of politics resembles religion, especially in one party states like North Korea.
@JohnHowardsEyebrows: Can you define exactly what you mean when you use the word 'religion' as I'm having trouble understand what you mean. :)
Also I'm not sure why we actually need politics, perhaps you can explain that as well while defining what you mean by 'politics'. OK we need an organising body to pave the road and make sure the train tracks line up, that kind of thing. I'm not sure why that has to involve politics and all of the abuses that go with it.
All states have one party, it's just that in some of them the uni-party has two heads in order to provide the illusion of choice or 'democracy'. Interchange those heads as much as you like, the main agenda never seems to change and the damage done by the previous head never get reversed. It's all an illusion.
Aaah. Lots of up votes.
Now i understand why there are so many forum comments where the author hates poor people, helping others, and immigrants.
All the neo-liberal Christians who exhibit no Christian values and and are only in it for personal gain and money. Scott Morrison, Donald Trump, and Joel Osteen would be proud of you.
Scott Morrison, Donald Trump, and Joel Osteen would not be my first picks on the list of good Christians (lols). I guess some of the go to church sometimes so that's good enough for the haters these days. :)
The whole point is, they preach that everyone should be a good christian, whilst not actually following the doctrine themselves.
But Scomo should be in Gaol for Robodebt.
Fair enough, that's not exactly going to be a short list though and doesn't really say much about the Bible, only the person in question. :)
@EightImmortals: If its a long list, then doesn't it become a trend, not an anomaly?
If more people use religion as a political tool to profit and control others, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?
@AnotherRedLight: Fair questions which would be much easier to answer IRL but I'll give it a go. :)
I think one of the main issues is the way we use the word 'religion', currently the common meaning seems to be that of some type of theistic or at least spiritual organisation. In the west it is mostly the 'Church' but I imagine other cultures have their analogues as well. Mosques and Buhddist temples etc. Feel free to add to that definition or disagree if you don't like it at all. But to me it seems a bit too limiting when attempting to describe the plight of humanity.
As I mentioned in other parts of this thread, not many people have actually read the Bible (cover to cover) so they are the mercy of others to some degree. We saw this, as most people are aware back in the dark ages where the RCC was the main power in Europe and held on to that power in large part by not allowing people to actually read the Bible. And then when they finally did after the invention of the printing press the reformation occurred (for better or worse :) ). And now the Bible is available to everyone but nobody wants to read it. :) My point is that for those who have actually read for themselves and ended up in religion then they have missed the main point. "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery."
In short, yes what most people know as 'Christianity' is not what the Bible teaches and while it has done an enormous amount of good in the history of western society (yes and some pretty bad stuff as well) people's biggest mistake seems to be conflating Christ with the Church and then in seeing the faults in the Church and not wanting anything to do with it and up throwing out baby Jesus with the religious bathwater so to speak. So to summarise 'knowledge is power' and those who have read the Bible shouldn't be too worried about Church demands and shenanigans. Especially when it comes to money and other people trying to control your life. The other thing that comes to mind is that a lot of people have an assumption (understandably) that somehow 'Christians' or Churchgoers are separate from the rest of the human race. As if belonging to that particular club somehow means you all of sudden become Christlike and perfect in all ways and if you aren't, well the unwashed masses will be quick to point it out. Yes the goal is to become Christlike but it doesn't (for most people) happen overnight, or at all in a lot of cases. A lot of people on 'converting' don't give up their false Gods and idols, they simply put Gods name on them and carry on as usual. From the perspective of the believer this can set up a false assurance that merely belonging to the club is their ticket to salvation (whatever that means). But the point of the whole thing is personal transformation and without that, all we have, as I said before is a set of rules.
"If more people use religion as a political tool to profit and control others, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?"
If the purpose is to be Christ in the world the of course it defeats the purpose. Please let me know if you had a different purpose in mind here. But then again the Bible does warn us about such things. Even still those kinds of things do provide valuable lessons for those who are truly seeking God and not something else.
And finally (yay) 'religion' (on the previous definition) is not high on the list of entities that control and profit from others these days, at least not in the western countries. I would argue a broader definition of what constitutes religion does but that might drag us too far off topic. The west is a post-Christian society at this point in time (not that it ever was a fully Christian one previously but the worldview did have a huge impact on our societal evolution) so I'm not concerned about the negative power of religion at this point, and certainly not concerned about the power of the Christian Churches to mould and shape our lives too much any more outside of those who are part of that subculture. There are way more sinister forces at work and the Bible should lead you into freedom from those as well.
Anyway I've rambled too much as usual but I hope you find some kind of answer in there somewhere. :)
@EightImmortals: I think that’s a very well considered explanation, especially:
“conflating Christ with the Church and then in seeing the faults in the Church”
You need not worry too much about these "bible" bashers as most of them are pretty wishy washy otherwise if they really "take up the cross" to follow "him", they would all end up in prison (which some of them do eg pedo priests).
Religion these days is mostly organised business, where they "sell" or "give" free an imaginary product and get gullible people to give lots of money and time to them, look how rich these institutions are? Some do good work in giving back and to look good like the Pharisees and Seducees, to get more followers eg min 10% x at least 6 Billion followers thats a lot of $$$, hence they all compete for followers… look how many flavours of churchananity their is?
Feel free to read all or none religious texts and make your own conclusions or be mindless Zombies…its easier to follow than lead for most people…
I don't downvote or upvote no point really imo
By the mount of negs you got (and will get) I guess you got a bit too close to that particular (un)holy cow. :)
Amen (no pun intended). OzBargain has gone to sh$t, along with other social media, and our society as a whole, which is a reflection of our education indoctrination system and mainstream media.
Truth. I'll take a bible basher over a wokester any day of the week. No blue hair is also a plus.
Much of a muchness TBH. We've also been indoctrinated with lots of beliefs by society, which is near impossible to see. The brainwashed can't see the brainwashing. We are so far off balance atm it's crazy. Look at the diseases people get these days, and how unhappy people get. It's only getting worse year by year.
We are in a giant religion.
Not sure why you are being negged.
Woke ideologies have contaminated almost every workplace (especially government) with a lot of ideologies that are not based on pure fact.
The major issue is if you try and debate these issues or do not agree, you are labled as some crazy hateful person. Just madness.
If by ‘wokism’ you mean being empathetic towards others with a lean towards calling out social, political and economic injustice….. I would prefer that as a religion than the hypocritical ‘religious’ right.
And so might Jesus.
The biggest religion today young Jedi is capitalism, even at this website we are praying at the altar.
haters out in full swing today
Does it come with a pamphlet about child safety?
you should also ask that question in every place you visit
Do schools?
Religious items/materials should not be a "deal".
Ok. Let's make sure that only atheism/anti religious items/materials are to be considered 'deals' from now
Finally,
War (the biggest industry) is a necesssity of life as is death, it is imminent whether its about Resources, Religion, Race or the Richie Rich corruption (Day of the Jackal ;))
The "Foundations" of the Abrahimic religions is based on sinking sands and hatred ("my god is better than yours" etc is their mentality) as society is even more influenced by "it", Government systems will eventually crumble…maybe… if no steps are taken
The War industry (including the vengeance/justice/legal industry) also fuels the Victimhood industry and the cycle continues…
Find your own path… Keep to yourself :))
So why is the war industry a necessity of life?
War is a total scam, yet people keep on doing it and those who foment the wars are rarely the ones who fight in them. Reminds me of that old saying from the eighties: "When people love their kids more than they hate their enemies (real or imagined) then we will have peace."
It creates lots of employment and for some "purpose", because by nature people are greedy and selfish and feel they lack meaning (even giving can give a person a warm and "good" feeling), its just part of human nature that is why there are so many humans…and when it gets to too many then it must be culled as it is part of nature aka diseases (war with nature) and War within…The war industry puts many leaders into power… think about it expand your horizons :)
So what you're saying is maybe I should invest in war bond with daddy Warbucks?
This guy knew the deal :https://archive.org/details/WarIsARacket/
The author was one of (if not the) most highly decorated Marine in U.S. History.
jesus christ…
I'm here for the comments. On a related note, anyone know of any good popcorn deals?
Wow. So many tight arse Christians hanging around OzB!
Jesus loves you; the followers of Jesus, the religion haters, the transgenders, the gays, the murderers, the prostitutes, the widowed, the divorced, the lost, the Ozbargainers. Jesus loves YOU. He loves you more than your mother, more than your father, more than your grandpa/grandma, more than your children, more than your spouse, more than your ex, more than your employer, more than Taylor Swift, more than your imaginary friends. There is no amount of sin or bad things that you've done that would change His love for you. Jesus only loves; He does not condemn. He does not force you to love Him back, but He will still love you. He's standing at the door waiting. He left the 99 other sheep just to look for you. Even if you have known Him once but decided to take all that He has given you and run off to live your life, He still stands at the gate every day to wait for you to come home. And when you return, He will cloth you with the best clothes, the robe of righteousness, and He and the whole Heaven will rejoice with you!
Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." That's His only desire for you and me.
He didn't ask us to defend ourselves and to argue who's right and who's wrong. He last commission was for us was to share His love and joy.
We need to stop following religion and actually read the Bible for ourselves. The Bible is not about us, it's about Him.
Jesus loves you; the followers of Jesus, the religion haters, the transgenders, the gays, the murderers, the prostitutes, the widowed, the divorced, the lost…..
By this list are you saying "the followers of Jesus" and all the other bad ones?
If so, what sort of thinking lumps all of those groups together?
One obvious example for you - wtf did widows do to get on that list?
And that's without going into the majority of the individuals you seem to have lumped together.
Lets try removing your presupposition of being a "follower of Jesus" makes us not part of the said bad ones
That wasn't the presupposition that I was making as I am aware that is not true (but for reasons different to yours).
The way I read it was you giving one good example followed by lumping all of those 'bad' people together to show how loving your Jesus is.
What I want to know is what logic of yours makes any of those individuals (with maybe the obvious one being murderers) to be examples of the 'bad' ones loved by Jesus?
A few of us follow Jesus because we see the need of God's help to be selfless, loving, and not judgmental.
May be worth a bit of your time to practice the 'not judgemental' part.
Well after the various quotes and preaching, there's no need to go to church. Now that's a real bargain. Thanks ozbargainers.
I just take the free ones in motel rooms - never run out of toilet paper again!
It is the gnostic fundamental elements of all ancient religions that enlightened all who truly suffer on this prison planet. The principles of the ancients taught us to turn within, to find answers and not to be fooled by the Maya of this illusional, temporary world. Yes, books such as the Bible were transitory for the initiates, no less invaluable than any lore, customs and teachings from any our our species instructive origins. If we fight amongst ourselves we miss how the governer of this sesspool of suffering is not our benevolent :master, quite the contrary;
It is the great usurper.
It's interesting to see how many just spit out hatred where the underlying message for Christ is love and peace. Just shows you humans are so flawed and really are terrible in nature.
I can't really tell if you're talking about his churchgoers or not, case in point I guess
Him whole heartedly supporting the Old Testament belies this comment about love and peace.
I thought this was just the 'hard cover'/shell that you wrap over or sandwich another novel or book to read while in church haha
This or the limited Donald Trump edition ? :-/
Donald trump edition of course , he is "god" ;) to yankies
Thanks OP, keeps the demons away
Hard to believe this has made it to ozbargain…. Such is the fame of this platform for deals that even one of the world's most powerful organisation is on it
I’m not religious at all. But I’m going to read this out of pure curiosity.
So look it up online for free. Try Genesis 19:30 for some Fifty Shades of Grey material.
Who knew ozb had such a big protestant cohort…
although religious groups have been getting more organised in political and economical spheres lately…
I think they're onto us. OzBargainers for Jesus beware! :P
Fiction is free on reddit.com not a bargain!
I swear upon this deal !
Jesus (profanity) Christ……. Anybody here just HATE religion ??? What an absolute crock of sh*t it is !! All of it !! Indoctrination of gullible people, stupid people and those that cannot rely on themselves or other people - a book of absolute fiction, that has caused millions of deaths and untold wars. I'm so sick of people peddling this nonsense. How can intelligent people believe it ? Seriously….. WTF ?!!! Most Christians probably haven't even read the bible - which has unicorns, dragons, murder, beastiality - just to name a few things. Thankfully religion is getting more and more unpopular as time goes on, and hopefully it will eventually die out all together. Bring that on, and maybe we won't be held back by stupid religious based doctrine and policy. Give me science and actual facts - not make believe and childish nonsense based on fear and indoctrination of children !! It should be law that religion is not introduced to any child ! Let people make their mind up as adults, and then lets watch it die out - except for the idiots peddling it who suddenly "find God" !!
Rant over.
Hold up, so you are saying you didn't order this? or that this isn't a deal?? I'm confused….
@Gmac61 - you might be interested to see this spoken word piece:
Jesus > Religion
https://christianembassy.ca/project/hate-religion-love-jesus…
a book of absolute fiction
There's a lot of history in the Bible. Here are 50 examples from archaeology that confirm different parts: https://bibleandarchaeology.blogspot.com/
Give me science and actual facts
There are many scientists that do believe in a Creator God, though not all share this publicly. Here's a list of some that have: https://creation.com/creation-scientists
If you objectively look at nature, plants and animals, the human body, the irreducible complexity of every individual system shows evidence of design - indicating there was a Designer. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, we were created for a purpose!
Here's a fascinating article that looks at the mathematical chances of macro evolution:
Applying Probabilities to Evolution
The Effect of Time on Improbable EventsAbstract
Evolutionary biologists of today are confronted with the problem of explaining how such an enormous amount of information contained in the most basic cell could have been organized into a life form using only chance, material, and time. The historical explanation has been to claim that time on the order of billions of years will result in these complex structures. This article will mathematically model one simple aspect of cell formation and, using mathematical statistics, compute the expected waiting time for this structure to occur.
Link: https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-against-evolution/prob…
I hope the above gives you a little more understanding, and another perspective. Take care!
You are deluded if you believe any of that nonsense. Grow up and stop spreading rubbish !
@Gmac61
cope harder :D :D :D
love that this has been the top deal on the main page for a few days now. The salt of your tears make it that much sweeter
ChatGPT a real time saver if you don’t have time to read it all:
“Alright, so check it out: the Bible’s like the OG book for Christians, split into two parts—the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament spills the tea on how the world kicked off, the saga of the Israelites, their rules, some deep poetry, and prophecies. The New Testament zeroes in on Jesus—his life, his vibes, how he got nailed and bounced back, plus how the early church rolled out and letters to the squads. Overall, it’s about creation, folks slipping up, redemption, and getting saved through faith in God.”
This deal is NOT updated.
That’s the problem.
Cheers op got one :)
Let’s face it, God should be prosecuted for war crimes, given every barbaric act in history was done in Gods name by or for one religion or another. Will pass on this work of fiction! So much harm from these books!
If you steal my stuff does that make you a bad person for life? Or are you in a situation where you can ask me to forgive you for your crime and change to be a better person and not steal? Every person in the world, including devote Christians have broken every commandment from the Ten Commandments in some shape or form, does that make everyone in the world bad? The act is bad, not the person