So when you're adding close to $3B in a qtr to your cash balance, along with auto margins back to just under 20%, the company is struggling. sure
$3,000 Novated Lease Incentive Available for Tesla Model 3 and Model Y Variants @ Tesla » All Comments
They need to keep the volumes up to show profitability and keep the share price up. Elon probably has a lot of the shares pledged to the banks.
Businesses often slash their prices because their products are so popular.
@Brick Tamland: except in this case all the EV makers have been slashing prices as they fight for sales, Tesla are down yoy for cars sold.
3billion in cash balance is nothing. You want the ebita the net profit in order to make a judgement on a companies profit.
@shegeloaf: ebita is an interesting one.
Also he said 3bn in cash added per quarter. So on a cash basis the business is doing bananas and I'd take that measure over EBITDA and Net Profit any day.
It was really stupid of Elon to tie pretty much ALL of his net worth to Tesla shares.
If Tesla tanks, his billionaire status crumbles.
No wonder he's tied Tesla's stock price to his cult of personality, and no wonder he's going all in on Trump to save his company.Somehow I feel one of the world's riches men and one of the foremost entrepreneurial geniuses of our generation….might have a better grasp of his financial situation than a random OzBarginer
@CyberDyn999: genius? marketing genius potentially….major BS artist definitely - remember he said the self driving problem had been 'solved' in 2016 and you'll be able to have a fleet of taxis for yoself by 2020 …. the guy bought twitter which is widely regarded as one of the stupidest decisions ever. that being said, he's doing his best to influence people on twitter to vote trump. so he's using in money to try to get what he wants alright. deluded elon fanboys may beg to differ on all of this of course.
billionaires be billionaring alright!
He didn't tie it to Tesla. His worth is because of Tesla. If he didn't stay in Tesla he'd be relatively worthless.
I suspect THIS is already their "price drop", alongside the low-interest-rate that they are providing via Plenti.
Tesla has been roundly criticised in the last 1-2 years for their very aggressive price cutting result in huge depreciation in earlier cars, therefore I suspect that by providing these alternative discounts they can still reduce the effective price tag without changing the actual price labels itself.
That's one but also technology does get cheaper with team and R&D. LCD LED TVs don't cost as much either
Yes but price cuts have been too drastic over the past 2 years.
Can technology prices fall that much when we are in this inflationary market?
Is it better to buy accessories such as a bike rack via NL or outside paying cash?
Tesla invoices all accessories separately. Novated lease companies normally do not cover what is not on original invoice, which in Tesla’s case is just the car. Talk to your novated provider as YMMV.
I keep hearing about the "current inventory" yet at the same time multiple friends claim to have Tesla's on back-order for months.
they only are on backorder for months if they have specific accessories or colour options that aren't available on the lots, just like any other manufacturer.
2 are waiting base 3's and 1 is for a base Y. Pretty sure all were white with no options.
Out of Interest, I just looked at the Tesla Inventory and most are "In-Transit" (presumably on a ship).
There is no massive backlog of stock in Australia.
if I had my guess, 1-2ships arrive close together (looks like Tesla's arrive in Waves, not just 1 ship at a time), then you have thousands of cars per ship being unloaded and the media has a field day.
Take delivery by Dec 20 - some specs could take up to 6-8 weeks delivery if not in current inventory.
Got to be at least $6k to make a dent in the interest rates wrapped into the NL contract.
If you put the 50k you otherwise would have spent on a Tesla into an offset, you are generally only paying 2% or so interest.
If you put it into the stock market you'll be getting +2% returns
Or throw it into the NDQ and it will go to the moon (400% return in last 10 years) it pays hardly any dividends so it is all capital gains.
or it could crater, investment returns is not the same as offset. it's basically a govt. guaranteed deposit netting you 10%+ gain pa tax free risk free.
hence you are usually ahead if you NL in terms of opportunity cost. if the NL interest is 8%, it's 4-5% equivalent if you are on top bracket, and you are actually ahead by 1-2% if your mortgage is circa 6%
@May4th: that's 100% complete BS. You are saying you're better of having a NL due to "opportunity cost" than investing? WOW that's enough ozbargain for me today..
@kobeduck: I think the 'better off' is in relation to if you'er already planning to buy a car and the NL is much better compared to paying for the cost up front because then the upfront payment is instead put into your mortgage offset.
Absolutely cannot guarantee that over a 5 year term… Though to be fair, it looks almost guaranteed trump is getting in again so America shares will probably do well over the next few years.
@Binchicken22: Look what happened last time Trump was in government. Stock markets went up.
Trump is going to drop taxes and increase government spending which will go straight into the private sector. Lower taxes means higher profits.
Or buy about half a Bitcoin before it shoots off once the alUS election is over.
Bank interest earned is taxable income.
Not if its in an offset which I mentioned.
But you save your tax bracket in percentage terms? which greatly outweighs the interest rate you pay.
Thats correct. An EV Novated lease is well worth it for multiple reasons.
This, and some still can't understand. Lol.
First time I get NL and can only ask myself why only now FFS!! When I am paying 50-60k tax yearly. Finally, this time I feel like "I am happy to pay tax".
You need to speak to an accountant. You need urgent help if you're paying 50-60k tax yearly and I guarantee you getting a novated lease is not one the solutions you will be given to maximise your tax return lol.
You need urgent help if you're paying 50-60k tax yearly
If you're earning a salary of $190K then you're paying $51K tax on that income - this is just the normal PAYE rate that your employer will be withholding.
Yes but NL companies have upped the interest rate. I got a quote from 2 NL companies, one was 7.9 and another 12.5 for the model Y.
But yea with no FBT, that gets subsidised to 4-5%.
Not sure why someone negged me, I did the calculations and everything and NL will make most of my money. Just the insurance alone, I feel like the real winner on my end.
But again, do your homework.
Not sure why someone negged me,
May be some people are jealous that your taxable income is around $180k a year in order to pay that much tax ;-)
@Buy2Much: Nah, not on OzBargain. Everyone on here is $250k+ and has a couple of high return investment BMWs
I suggest going through your own finance then. Novated lease providers resell most of the products to take a cut but technically you can source everything yourself and save quite a bit of money. Just more work
@fremeer: I have been doing NL for a few years. Just want to tap into no FBT for EVs now.
Based on the calcs, it's still beneficial to go with NL at around 7-8% interest purely because
1. No finance on GST component(5-6K)
2. All running cost is pretax
3. No GST on running cost either
Smart group used 13% in their quote and said it will go down once I submit income docs.
Asked how low it can go and they said 9%. Not sure if it worthy.
Yeah some nl companies are vultures especially if your employer locks you in to one as the only option. Just did the process for a sealion 6 premium.
Some lease companies throw numbers and potential savings numbers at you, in a bid to confuse you. Found one that was upfront mostly honest. 9.7% but you can’t compare to a secured personal loan as it’s not structured the same. Nominated my own insurance and expenses - you only need to compare lease rental and admin fees, the rest is your budget to spend and gets returned if unspent.
3 yr lease. Vehicle cost 60k. Total paid over the lease 59k inc 5k of rego/insurance. This is including balloon to buy out car at the end. So in the end I save 6k, and pay no interest for the finance (effectively). Get to keep that money in stocks etc for three years.
A good deal, yes. Mind blowing enough to buy an EV/PHEV if you didn’t want one anyway? Arguably no.
And everyone on ozbargain is in the top tax bracket
For vast majority of people NL would still emerge cheaper than cash despite the interest.
For a top bracket earner, it can be cheaper by some tens of thousands of dollars over 5 years of ownership. My 8.6% interest NL for a 81k Tesla ended up 46,000 dollars cheaper over 5 years when compared to buying it with cash.
My spreadsheet goes into huge details and many have found it helpful in navigating this confusing area.
Your spreadsheet is excellent thank you for your service 🫡
Hey mate, I found this helpful really and read this prior to deciding getting my Tesla last August via NL instead of paying cash after I sold my previous car.
Your calculator helped me make lay out the costs and over 5 years it ended up being cheaper by 20k for my situation. People who blanket statement "NL=bad" have no clue.
Thank you for this spreadsheet mate.
I used this earlier this year and worked out a novated lease with Model Y was very cost effective for me vs buying a diesel 4WD of similar upfront cost.
Essentially this saved me 50k over 5 years with the decision it helped me make.
Just expressing my gratitude for your work on this!
What are your thoughts on longer vs shorter NL terms (3 vs 5 yr) and cost impact?
I hear somethings changing (fbt rules or something) in about 4 years - anyone have any idea what that might be?
@May4th: So 3 year lease may be “safest” or the benefit should be maintained for those already on it?
@WhyAmICommenting: I believe the FBT exemption cut-off is based on when you start the NL. So if it gets removed in 2027, any novated lease started before then will still have the benefits until the end of the lease
@Dbuiz: Correct, with some conditions. If you look at PHEV as an example (FBT being phased out middle next year).
You lose benefit if one of these happens:Taking up an optional extension to a lease.
Breaks in novated leases, such as periods of unpaid leave where employees pay lease payments directly.
Adding accessories to the car that are added into the lease and cause a change in the amount subject to finance.
A novated lease being transferred to a new employer.
Hey mate. A big question involving multiple nuanced perspectives.
I think for most people, the biggest questions when it comes to considering the length of lease is:
- how likely are you to want to change a car before the lease ends
- how likely are you going to have job changes before the lease ends.These two questions are the biggest determinants of whether people go for a shorter lease. If you think you might want to change employer in a few years, yes it's technically possible for people to simply transfer the lease to the new employer, the process can sometimes be not straightforward or occasionally even impossible (eg the new employer simply does not support novated lease). If that is the case, you are forced to pay out the residual lease payments with post-tax money, resulting in huge additional expense.
With the biggest consideration out of the way, the other considerations are:
- if you want to go for shorter term, e.g. 1, 2 or 3 years, what is the game plan? Are you the type of person who wants to sell it, and change to a new car? Or are you someone who tends to keep a car for longer than that, so you are simply going to pay the residual / extend the lease?
- don't forget that the FBT exemption for NL is up for review in mid 2027, and by then the FBT exemption might end. So if you start a 3-year lease now which will last till end of 2027, and by then FBT exemption has ended, then you no longer have the option of continuing the cheap FBT-exempt lease.Personally I went for 5-year lease because I know I will keep the car for 5 years or longer, and I will simply pay the residual (or even better, if FBT exemption is still in place, I will extend the lease for a few more years). I also enjoy good job security as a specialist doctor with fixed employee, and don't intend to borrow more for houses so no concern about reduced borrowing capacity, etc. But people will have to make their own decision based on considerations above.
So if you start a 3-year lease now which will last till end of 2027, and by then FBT exemption has ended, then you no longer have the option of continuing the cheap FBT-exempt lease.
Even if FBT benefit gets phased out, if you are already contracted to the lease, benefit remains with some caveats.
@Buy2Much: I am referring to someone who signs for 3 years today ending December 2027, and if FBT exemption doesn’t continue at that stage, they can’t extend their lease and enjoy FBT exemption further.
Contrast this to the person who signs up for 5 years straight today and lasting till December 2029, even if FBT exemption doesn’t continue in 2027, the current arrangement will likely continue for the rest of the term. (If they decide to give it the same treatment as PHEV)
Agree, people forget the cost of money. For many people leasing means their money can sit in an offset account or be earning money in shares.
- No FBT
- No GST (includes expenses like Insurance)
- Cost of Money
Offsets the higher interest rates ~7.5% would be paying to lease.Although the best way to save is don't buy a new car.
Haha yes, in most cases just not getting a new car is the best option. But if you want/need one, then NL makes sense in a lot of situations
@Frosty17: While "not getting a new car" is often cheaper, in the face of crazy discount effect of novated lease (especially for higher bracket earners), people actually often save money by swapping out their older used car for a novate-leased car.
A numerical example (that I show in my spreadsheet) is: when I changed my 4-year-old Mazda 6 worth 25k dollars to a novate-leased Tesla Model 3 Long Range (worth 81k when I bought), the overall 5-year financial outcome is on par whether I keep the Mazda or NL this Tesla (with the assumption of the Tesla being worth around 32k in 5 years and the Mazda worth 14k).
Therefore:
- if instead of the 81k EV I got a cheaper one e.g. the current 60k Tesla, 50k BYD or 30K MG4, I would have literally saved tens of thousands compared to keeping my old Mazda 6.
- if instead of 25k Mazda 6 my current car is a Mercedes still worth 40k, I would have literally saved 10k plus changing over to this Tesla.So this old "keeping your old car is always the best" is a mantra that is no longer true in the FBT-exempt novated lease environment. You have to crunch the number instead of simply following this "rule of thumb".
There's always the problem with leasing an EV that as prices drop (which they will as the tech is still getting cheaper) then you've ended up leasing an ~80grand car with a $90grand loan (lease arrangement) to pay out , sure you get this tax free but end up saving only a small amount per year because maintainance costs in three years are one set of tyres and some washer fluid.
With the model Y especially we know for a fact there will be a refreshed one withing the life of most, if not all, of these leases as well as likely dropping another $10k from the price within ~3 years for a new one..
This is a "save upfront" but get stung later deal really. You're getting $3k off upfront, which keeps your monthly costs down, but when the buy it out part comes at the end of the lease you might find that the car has a $40k debt still riding on it and it's worth $30k… so you're going to have to pay back most of what you "saved".
Of course the same is true if you bought the car cash, it's still just lost money, as are all cars.
I cashed to buy a $93k red model 3 LR 2021, and 3.75 years later it's worth more like $40k now, but it's not important.. I just drive it knowing every km I drive it is costing me less than driving what I used to own.Where a lease can work is if you're selling a car now for a big cash bonus that you can invest, and taking instead a loan that is "cheap", so that when you get to the buyout your invested money fills the value loss gap… it can work out but you need to have made that commitment and a lot can change in your life in 3 years.
@DisasterArea: True, that is why personally I did not purchase a Tesla went with a much cheaper EV under a NL for 2 years. $30k driveaway.
Yes I get a lot less, and a higher out of pocket than leasing a Tesla over 5 years.
Paying extra as a hedge against uncertainty in the EV space and the NL meant I could avoid selling any shares\investments.
That being said, unless something major happens will be paying the balloon payment and keeping the car. No way I could go back to ICE.@UltimateAI: Amen to that, pricing is still the sticking point for many who hace not realised the total cost of ownership for an EV can work out a lot better.
I just calculated out earlier that my 3.75 year old long range has dropped $45k in depreciation, but saved $16,000 on fuel costs compared the Mazda RX-8 I used to own, which to me is a "performance car" of similar status. The RX-8 cost me $56k, another $8k in engine repairs thanks to terrible dealer servicing and was sold at 8 years old for $12,000 trade in.
Looking at that.. by 8 years I'll have saved $32,000 in fuel and (hopefully) not have an $8k repair bill.. so which was the better value?
I can tell you the EV is much more relaxing to drive in the places I use it.
ah it's YOUR spreadsheet!! Thanks!! I used it recently and worked out I actually 'saved' money through a NL vs buying a car upfront after selling my current car as well.
Love your work dude. I often refer colleagues to your spreadsheet. Happy (though completely unsurprised) to see you post here on Ozbargain!
I am the loser who likes to show up as the self-proclaimed internet expert in this topic lol. But yeah enjoy helping others and see how people benefit from making better-informed financial decisions.
Thanks buddy.
That’s… not how a NL works. It’s a cash flow analysis and the finance interest rate has minimal impact on the overall cost effectiveness for a NL.
This is especially true for electric vehicles with the FBT discount.
Especially with the risk of losing your job and not being able to transfer.
The novated lease fees will cost you thousands with no offset.
The novated lease also affects mortgage applications.
I have a Zeekr X pre-ordered but they are seriously dragging their feet in terms of timelines and availability. I may have to consider Tesla with this deal.
You have a what?
iPhone X
Is that Apple's version of twitter?
I have to say I considered the zeekr for about 5 minutes until I saw its price and not much to justify it (nice materials, few extra options, that’s about it)
I thought it looked hideous.. the people mover looks good but will be quite expensive over LCT threshold
For me it's a balance of:
- Luxury interior.
- Soft ride (we've test driven it in another country already).
- A bloody fridge! Well, it can also go up to I think 40C, very helpful addition for our lifestyle.
- 3.8s to 100KM/H (actually a bit quicker with better tyres) in the AWD model.
- Very funky colour options, we're considering Pine Green over Blue/White.
For just under $70K driveaway, it's a very sweet deal on a novated lease.
What's a good novated lease provider to get a quote from?
I found this brilliant EV novated lease calculator on Reddit - I believe changyang1230 also frequents ozbargain too… but I got a bit stuck when it asked the fortnightly lease payments and I couldn't find a provider to churn out a quote. I should be only in the 30% tax bracket ($45,001 – $135,000) for now so might not be worth it…
With your employer work with any NL company?
If yes, then go with the bigger ones likes Sgfleet, Novated lease Australia etc. they tend to offer a lower rate
Thanks for the plug.
The spreadsheet works best if you already get a quote from an NL provider. However, if you simply want to explore, you can simply simulate "what would happen if my NL interest rate is 9%" by following the instruction on that reddit page, under the section called "I Don't Have A Quote For A Car, Can I Still Use This Calculator?".
Great work on this comprehensive resource! Sorry, I completely missed that in the Reddit page… Looks like I should go back and look through that in detail as I’m sure there are other tips as well. Cheers!
Super handy, thanks
Your calculator is amazing changyang, thanks.
I got a few quotes recently. SG Fleet was the best, around $300 per fortnight for a Model Y with no extras.
I should be only in the 30% tax bracket ($45,001 – $135,000) for now so might not be worth it…
Consider a 6-month or 12-month 'subscription' EV,
but ask your employer if they would deal with AGL:
Make sure you factor in that you're paying $2-3k more for insurance on a Tesla so the saving might not be so good
Not really. My current Sportage came at 1300 and Tesla at 1600.
Novated leases include insurance, right?
Yes. I heard from a friend, whose insurance is about 3k for Y.
Probably young and/or has a claim history. 3K is very expensive.
yes by default, you can get ur own too..
The ones they will offer you would be double the market cost. They will try to tell you we offer this and that which others don't nah. Not worth it
Ahhh gotcha
You can choose your own insurance provider and get reimbursed later (tax free ofc). Smart Salary lets me do that.
But if you really just had an accident and your fault, go with them lol
You can get your own quotes and claim under a NL so you get the GST and pre-tax benefits.
By default NL will put in a whole lot of crap you don't need.Thanks, didn't know that
@theguyrules: BTW: If they budget too much and you don't use it, you get it back at the end. It's not wasted money so to speak.
I had an EV quote and the maintenance \ service budget was stupidly high.
I got my own insurance and then claimed it back via the NL.@UltimateAI: Good to know. I am still finding this rather confusing - might need to talk to an accountant
not last I got a quote. Maybe $2-3k more if u upgrading from a bicycle.
The premium to insure my Tesla for the past 2 years would only total slightly over $2k.
every post on EV has this. you just need to look around and not stick to budgetdirect
Model Y on NL owner here. My insurance is only $1400 per year, I use NRMA and my lease provider reimburses me the money. Tesla insurance can be pretty normal, just need to shop around.
My insurance quote for a new Model Y was only like $20 a month more than I'm paying now for an almost 15 year old ICE car.
I was watching youtube videos yesterday trying to understand novated leases. Is this an extra $3k off the purchase price when bought using a novated lease?
Reading the terms and conditions it will a reduction on the final invoice. So yes, it will reduce the cost upfront.
I think, BYD on the other hand is giving it back to the customer. I could be wrong.
I think, BYD on the other hand is giving it back to the customer. I
If they are that's a worse offer as you are paying interest on the 'cash back'
Or you can use it to buy accessories for the car, tint it, get a dashcam which are useless to package in the NL anyway and a cost to the user
Even better, invest it and get more return than the leasing cost, or or put it towards the residual amount.
Model y at 50k and I'll buy one. Even though I hate the idea. Why buy a RAV4
Wouldn't buy a Model Y right now mate. Juniper facelift is on the horizon.
True. Let's hope it's a similar price to the highlander. LR rwd would be my pick
Not just a facelift, major range upgrades too apparently
Couldn't tell you how happy I am with my rav4 hybrid.
The RRP sucks, but that's our new normal with government deficit spending
That said, seems like everyone outsources their head units to Bangalore because the Android Auto was below expectations - literally the one tech item that new car buyers want, phone integration, is crap. UI is otherwise functional and aesthetic.Ouch, it's crazy you can get a model y for less than a rav4 hybrid now.
I also got a RAV4. I had the enormous displeasure of driving a toyota C-HR overseas and seeing how it shits all over the Rav4. The lane assist can actually accommodate bends in the road, there is a speed limiter, and the option for a non-radar cruise control.
Nobody buys c-hr so Toyota is going to stop making them. Overpriced and unnecessary with the rav4 and Corolla cross.
And on lane assist you should try Tesla autosteer as it destroys anything that any toyota does.My Rav4 borderline is self driving on the freeway with active cruise control and lane keep assist.
I don't like the lane keep assist on normal B roads that I travel with crappy shoulders and inconsistent lane marking - I can't see fully self driving cars on the roads anytime soon.I think the Rav4 price reflects demand.
Model Y buyers are giddy about their tax and fuel savings, but the largest cost to a vehicle is generally depreciation, which they are hit hard with.
Electricity isn't even cheap in Sydney, you'd need a solar set up AND the ability to charge during that day (when solar generates) to drive a benefit. I briefly considered a Y when Rav4 was unobtanium@gfjh567gh3: Depreciation is only a cost consideration if you sell early. For those who buy cars for 10+ years it is a non issue really.
The rav4 is a mile behind a Tesla in driving performance and technology.
The horribly rough noisy petrol engine and the lack of performance are pretty disappointing at the price of a rav4.
Mind you the Tesla is far too firm and not a great handling car but that rough ride around town is also disappointing at its price@choofa: Just because a car is electric and has 100% torque at 1rpm, doesn't mean that it's fast and handles well - if 100% torque is only 20nm on a 3 tonne car, that's going to be slow (numbers for example purposes, only). Let's not pretend that a base model Y is a Plaid.
Rav4 AWD hybrid has 2x battery packs to help get off the line. I am supremely impressed by the handling (though I'm still running the engine in). The kinetic recovery system also goes very easy on the brakes, which is a high running cost for larger cars.
Tesla is not renowned for fit and finish and longevity of components, such as suspension and panels and connectors - that would be my long term concern.
Let's not pretend that a base model Y is a Plaid
Definitely not - but even the base model has 350Nm from standstill, which is 50% more than the RAV4 can muster at 3500rpm, so it's a hell of a lot more zippy. The Tesla has far better handling too thanks to the very low centre of gravity.
The kinetic recovery system also goes very easy on the brakes, which is a high running cost for larger cars.
Full EVs have a much larger battery and regen capacity, so they're significantly more capable in this regard. Brake pads and discs lasting beyond 100,000km is super common on Tesla vehicles.
Tesla is not renowned for fit and finish and longevity of components, such as suspension and panels and connectors - that would be my long term concern.
Panel gaps are a US thing and irrelevant to the Shanghai-made vehicles delivered to Australia. I've heard of issues with Model S suspension, but not so much on the Model 3 or Model Y.
There's no question that the RAV4 is a really nice vehicle, and it was actually driving a rental hybrid RAV4 in EV-only mode that motivated me to test-drive an EV in the first place. But for a vehicle that's only used for relatively short drives and can be easily charged at home, IMO the Model Y is just better. I will never ever buy another ICE vehicle of any kind if I can possibly avoid it.
Electricity isn't even cheap in Sydney
You don't need solar. There are a number of electricity providers that offer very cheap overnight rates for charging. Charging a Model Y works out at roughly $1.25 per 100km if you can take advantage of those rates.
A hybrid RAV would be about $9 per 100km (5L/100km x 1.82/L). If you do a lot of kilometres, it can really add up.
@klaw81: Thank you, yes that's an option. Rates do vary suburb to suburb. I did my calculations on a model 3 , and found that the fuel use discount on the rav4 hybrid was only 50%. I don't drive a lot, so I wouldn't meet a payback period any time soon.
Plus, as above, these Ravs just don't depreciate! Not that I intend to sell, I want to make this into a family heirloom… lol
"I had the enormous displeasure of driving a toyota C-HR overseas and seeing how it shits all over the Rav4." I'm confused, my interpretation: 'shits all over' = better, 'displeasure' = worse? is the RAV4 better or worse than the C-HR?
@22slurpee: The European C-HR was a far better experience, which is a displeasure because I spent the best part of $60k (DINK) on a Rav4.
yep got the same email.
so I basically need to talk to Maxxia?
you need to talk to whichever novated lease provider your company has arrangements with.
Spoiler alert - expect to be price gouged by maxxia if they have exclusivity with your employer
true story, better of with 0% interest IMO
well previously it was smart salary, worked out to be 10% interest rate pre covid, so can't be much worse
Recent Maxxia quote is around 16%
Do you get a dark gothic Maga hat with it??
You can try sending them a video of you doing the X Jump and maybe he will send you one.
And VPN indicating you are in a swing state.
I have been literally been holding on for Juniper. Probably the price won't go up, it didn't with the 3 highland either
It did go up with highland. Juniper will definitely go up.
But then it went down to a lowland.
Yes, this. Within 3 months.
Yes. To milk the Tesla fans. Then it drops back to normal price for normal people.
won't go up too much given Kia EV5 and the 20 or so new EVs arriving in 2025. Not if they want to sell anything anyway
Which translate into $14.42 week for 4yr, depending how long ur lease is it.
That's 2 coffees a week with special milk. Not bad hey
It's not bad! But by the end of it, you don't own anything except for the coffee's that you didn't buy
16k to pay to keep 5yo car isnt too bad, you should be able to break even at the very least
We are so lucky that we have chinese EVs in our market. Healthy competition forcing down prices
I thank the overlords everyday for their EV blessings bestowed upon us.
+1 Social credit.
The real question to the Novated Leasing company is what is the interest rate on the car loan component? They hate that question as it is always higher than what the banks are offering. You can usually get 5.99% or 6.99% on car loans at Police Credit Union. At the moment the rate is 6.24%. When I looked into one of these last year they said the loan interest rate was 13.99%
That’s how they get you.
The one my work uses is 8.9%
Do be aware that while the "interest rate" under the hood of NL is higher than typical car loans, because of the discount effect of funding it with pre-tax money, you can't simply compare NL interest rate and typical loan interest rate directly.
For example, a 15% NL on top or second top tax bracket will still come in cheaper than a 6% car loan.
My spreadsheet does all the above calculations in detail and you can verify all the numbers for yourself.
Very true - some may not be aware what a game changer FBT-exemption for EV has been for NL.
Lease Plan (owned by SG Fleet) is currently around 7.6%. Not sure if it is employer negotiated rate.
Can we get it together with $1000 referral code to order new Tesla?
Not 100% sure how to order the new car with referral code and through novated lease…
Will be $4000 off if that works.If you click on a referral link and place an order, $700 referral is deducted off the drive away price.
I'm guessing once you placed an order and go through the process of filling out the details, if you selected novated lease it will deduct $3000 off the final invoice for you to send to your NL company.Thanks indecisive1
NGL, could never buy a Tesla knowing Musk is going to profit off it, rather give money to the CCP…
Typical comment from a Green
You don't need to be 'green' to think Musk is a tool.
We don’t buy car because who the boss is, but what the car offers. Only leftist will do the other way.
Same way we F’d someone’s daughter, we don’t think who the parents are.
Again, only weirdo will do that. Not buying tesla because Elon is the Ceo.
Edit: and btw, Greens are weirdo. Tbh
@Fredfloresjr: Generally the educated do like to be educated about whom their purchasing choices are supporting, yes.
@Fredfloresjr: People who have ethics and a social conscience consider additional factors other than price and function when making purchasing decisions. The fact that you cannot comprehend this says a lot about your education and character.
We don’t buy car because who the boss is,
You should absolutely understand the social and ethical implications of the choices you make when you spend money.
Ever dollar spent, is effectively a vote for how you want things to be.
Don't fund things you don't like !!!
@Nom: People acting like they are the kings of social responsibility. I bet your houses are full of Nestle products a truly evil corporation.
Buying a Tesla in Australia gives money to both, last I heard all Australian Teslars were made in China
Just don't like the bloke, nothing to do with being green or not
Same. I wanted a model 3 but thought they were overpriced, but right as the price has hit reasonable his toxicity has surged.
Shame there's no 3rd choice. If Mazda or Subaru was making proper electric cars I'd jump on that. Maybe even a Euro if they were competitive with Chinese EVs, the current price premium doesn't seem worth it.
That's why I like the options from Polestar and Volvo, Euro designs, built in China. Rather competitive with the Teslas after their price drops last year. They feel better, but seem to suffer from the same build quality issues as Tesla that result in issues that need fixing.
I saw this email. OOOOFTTT. Might be just what I need to persuade Mrs. repstar for the new M3 highland!
There is only one M3 and the Tesla isn't it.
I really wanna buy, but I don't want it dropping like 10K from brand new in the next 3 months
It's not going to happen like that again. But if you're really concerned about early depreciation, take advantage of it and buy a 1yr old car instead.
it likely will given the Juniper model is coming out, I would expect all 2024 model Y's to drop in value by a significant amount once that happens.
This mentality is crazy, might as well wait for Juniper 5, same comment if someone asked should I buy 4090 gpu, "no wait for 5090". This is still the same comment after I built my 4090 last year March. Imagine if I listened lol. YOLO, just buy! If you are buying car and worried about depreciation, go buy a cannondale bike, not a car.
This mentality is crazy
Yeah, crazy. In the face of almost every other desireable vehicle appreciating in the last 5 years, it's so crazy to not want to buy a lemon that loses half it's shine in the first 1000km's.
Who cares, are you selling it in 3 months or 3 years? If the answer is yes then don't buy a new car.
Had my Model Y for 15mths on novated lease, done about 26,000kms. Love it, haven't had any issues at all.
What is the game plan though, will you eventually pay it off to keep the car for 5 + years?
NL to me just seems like paying money for a car you never own?
The game plan is to save several thousand of dollars of tax over 5 years and keep that money in the offset or use it elsewhere. My lease saves me $15000 using the FBT EV exemption. No need to pay upfront for the car.
Yeah except it likely isn't - Lease companies screw at every turn to the point unless you are in the 180k+ tax bracket it's very unlikely you'll save anything after paying inflated interest, inflated insurance, inflated fuel/power, inflated tyres/maintenance etc
No need to pay upfront for the car.
The balloon / residual payment means, having that lump of cash available, at the end of the novated lease.
you can own it if you want to, it's just usually more tax effective to recycle the lease or start a new one. after 5 years the residue value is 30% so it'd be 16-17k to keep the car but most people will sell and lease a new car assuming FBT exemption is extended in 2027
It kind of depends on
- whether you "want" or "need" a new car
- how much the replacement car is worth
- whether you can still do FBT-exempt NL on this new car
- how much is your running cost of the now 5-year-old Tesla vs the running cost of this new car.Personally if my 5-year-old tesla still services me well, and it continues to enjoy low running cost, then I suspect keeping it instead of NL or buying a new car is a more economical option. In fact, there's also an option of extending the novated lease on a 5-year-old car, and if FBT-exemption is still in place, extending this lease for a few more years will always be cheaper than NL-ing a new EV.
@changyang1230: after 5yrs the residual value would be quite minimal you're more getting deductions on maintenance/insurance etc rather than the vehicle itself.
I suppose it's a similar fallacy to negative gearing..the more tax you 'save' you have to spend more in the first place
I haven't worked out exactly what I will do when the 3yrs is up. It was my first time leasing a car and I must admit I am not an accounting expert - but based on the public calculators it seems beneficial for a high income full time earner. My novated lease % is about 7.8% from memory. I think a lot of places are quoting a fair bit higher now.
And like skye89 mentioned, I keep the money I would have spent buying it outright in my mortgage offset.
So essentially the deposit you would have used towards a traditional car loan, is saved in your offset.
I am going through the Reddit provided calculator to try and compare traditional car loan to NL to see how it stacks up
@starspawn: I also get a 4.2c per km ATO deduction/rebate (again not an accountant I'm probably using the wrong term). But since I charge for free during the OVO 3hr 11am-2pm window, it costs less than nothing to fill/charge. Obviously not a reason to buy an EV just for that, but a bonus.
@Jase83: Not sure if you realise but even though you are charging for free in reality, you should still claim the 4.2c / km reimbursement as it's effectively a tax-refund for you.
So overall, your real electricity cost is NEGATIVE i.e. the more you charge the more profit you make from it.
@changyang1230: Yep thanks, my lease provider asks for the odometer reading each quarter - then they transfer me the calculated amount.
You can choose to own it at the end by paying the residual, which is about $16k.
Or roll it over into another new car.
Or sell it, pay the residual and pocket the difference. Considering 5 year old second hand Tesla's now are still selling for $30k+
Also had mine for about 18 months, not notated lease (not supporting those leeches)
Have had a few issues/critiques:
- Roof rattling
- Drivers seat plastic control panel broke off
- Couple occasions screen hasn't turned on (easily fixed with the restart shortcut on the steering wheel)
- The non-adjustable driver/passenger headrests are terrible and utterly stupid design
- Rear headrests hardly move which makes using the tethers on Australian carseats finicky
- Range is a huge LIE, whatever it claims your range is I would take 35% off
- Spotify and YouTube music often have connection issues
- Could really do with lights in the door handles, real pain to find in the dark especially black handles on a black car. They're also super unfriendly if you have any type of hand disability/injury (elderly/arthritis in-particular)Otherwise, great car, drives fanatically makes basically any ICE car feel like a slug, is super cheap to run (even with the BS range) and so quite
Ah I do have a rattle above 70kmh on really coarse bitumen roads - but I haven't gone to the extent to take the kids seats and my wife's crap out of the storage bins to really narrow down if it's coming from the car and where.
If you push against the roof trim near the front of the glass roof on either the drivers or passenger side and it stops, that's ya problem. It's a none issue, they fix it with some foam bits :)
I have a Model 3 of similar vintage.
No issues with roof rattles or screen power, and Youtube Music has worked for me every time I've used it. I agree that the headrests should be adjustable, but I'm okay with their position.
The door handles appeal to my engineering brain, but I agree that their design is very impractical and non intuitive. The fact that you have to explain to people how to use them is an indication of design failure. And they are near impossible to find in the dark.
I really like that the screen controls almost everything and keeps the console area totally clean and free of clutter. I wish there was hardware control of the temperature and fan speed - that's my only gripe with the whole control scheme.
Totally agree with your summary - drives beautifully, the instant torque is addictive, and the low cost of travel and convenience of home charging is amazing. Zero regrets - I have owned a lot of cars and this is easily my favourite.
"The 2.99% p.a. interest rate (3.99% p.a. comparison rate) offer from Plenti cannot be combined with the $3000 Novated Lease incentive."
I just got a quote for a shark on a 5 year lease they quoted 11.85%!! crazy.
Because it's 3000 off with NL.
Thats the entire lease game, you don't really save anything but thousands in tax dollars get funneled into the leech companies
If your workplace has Maxxia as the default salary packaging provider, do yourself a favour and avoid doing a fully maintained NL with them. My workplace contract with them is 11% interest rate.
For those doing EV, highly recommend doing it via CBA. They offer a 1% discount for EV cars. My 3 year term is 7.19%.
For those new to NL, most of the companies you'll find on the internet are salary packaging providers/broker combinations, in which you'll need to check with your payroll if they are allowed.
Problem is my workplace only allows Maxxia.
I am doing self-managed lease where CBA is the financier and Maxxia does the salary packaging components. Surely your workplace allows self-managed lease.
Nope. They have one other financier we can use - 8.9%. Maxxia's rate is 11.x% something stupid
@shap08: Check thoroughly about this, I've heard you can do it in Tas health using Maxxia for packaging and separate financier.
I find it strange that people are not put off from buying Teslas because of Musk. I would personally find it shameful and embarrassing to be associated with that complete clownshow by driving one of his cars. I guess some people have no social conscience, are clueless to what is going on in the world or just don't care what people think of them.
Weird take.
What's weird about someone not wanting to spend money on products that are closely associated with the very public image of a controversial and very political figure?
Given the opportunity, I know I wouldn't want to give Musk any money after his antics over the past few years. But, that's my choice.
Yeah. I’d be ashamed driving a Tesla.
I feel the same way about driving a Toyota or VW based on their years of deliberate deception of the public in the various emissions testing scandals.
But not in the slightest about the personal politics or beliefs of any particular executive at any car company.
To be fair, Elon has created a far more public image than any other executive. And that image is closely tied to his companies.
I bet if you took the time to find out who the CEOs of any company are, learned about their personality and politics, and came to the conclusion that they are a terrible person, you would feel less inclined to buy their products.
But you don't, and they just don't usually put themselves in the spotlight and invite that opinion.
Not sure why all the hate. What has he specially done that is so shameful?
Most people don't follow politics or news or don't really care.
I still give him a lot of credit for progressing innovation and tech. Tesla and Space X are impressive tech giants. Great benefits will come for humankind from his leadership in this.
What hurty words hurt your feelings the most?
In your case I'm guessing it was "social conscience" or "what is going on in the world"
Seeing as we’re making predictions then your response likely translates to “criticise muh socialism” and “more socialism will fix everything”
@tmcn85: No, my response translates to "make an actual point instead of being vapidly condescending and defensive just because someone called Elon a clown"
Sorry, not everyone can love him as much as you do 💔
But is there an actual reason for that love or is it as blind and empty as you make it sound?@crentist: Don’t love or hate Elon. I do appreciate him purchasing Twitter and making efforts in support of free speech, is that your issue with him? Or do you just wanna call names and that’s that?
@tmcn85: and how did that work out? he personally intervened to quash posts that threatened his political leanings. free speech is a ruse the rich use to push their agenda
@tmcn85: Twitters own reports show that they are banning more people, with more political motivation
So no it's not just about calling him names. It's about recognising that he earns those names if you look behind the veneer.
He has great engineering companies like Tesla, but was so butthurt about people not liking him that he bought Twitter to make his own rules for
freespeech.
And he's so offended by government regulations that he's become a prominent voter-buying cheerleader for trump to buy the government regulators for himself.He talks about efficiency and red tape for everyone, to paper over the goal of gutting any form of oversight that he is personally bothered by. Which hasn't prevented him becoming the richest man in he world, but prevents pesky things like dumping pollution wherever he wants and botching experimental animal surgeries en masse.
But yea nah he'll let you be more of an prick online if you don't upset his friends, so I guess he's pretty cool eh
Because the CEOs and billionaire owners of other car companies are all stand up guys?
Average Aussie has plenty of Nestle products in the cupboard - They are directly and literally responsible for the deaths of thousands or 10's of thousands of babies in Africa. Musk is a giant douche but as CEO's go he is not the shittiest, he's just very loud about it
No, as a matter of Principle - because Elon is such a knob.
If you are following him on X atm, it is seriously concerning. He looks like an idiot
im sure alot of ppl on social media are knobs, and that's a true reflection of them in RL too.
what ever the interest on the NL, it's discounted by the tax rate no? since the money is coming out of your pre tax income, and then all the running cost is also getting discounted by your tax rate, add in 0 FBT, that's how NL makes sense.
plus savings on GST on initial purchase and monthly costs
Correct
Not just the interest on NL, both the "principal" and interest are discounted by the tax rate.
Which is why on top bracket, a 16% novated lease is still cheaper than a 6% car loan when you crunch the numbers.
wouldn't recommend Novated Lease if looking to buy a property during your lease years. your serviceability will be very much affected
Who knew having debt negatively affects your serviceability…. Wow you learn something new every day ..
not everyone knows it. i learned it the hard way, when had to pay a lot more to get out of novated lease contract to increase serviceability.
To be honest a lot of people don't actually consciously consider this even though it's logical. And the magnitude of reduced borrowing capacity is higher than what many people imagine. I have heard that NL for a 70k car can reduce the borrowing capacity by up to 200-300k if you are thinking about buying a house. You wouldn't have thought servicing a 70k car would make you afford 200-300k less of a house, would you?
Yes because it isn't the debt size but the amount of cash out the door a week. It could be a 30k car but if a balloon is due in 12 months time it is going to be a lot of cash to pay now and in 12 months.
Ahahaha make sure we don’t have afterpay too?
Tesla having the struggles it seems, lol to him fafo
..BYD sold more EVs last quarter or year. Gotta keep sales up somehowreasonable to go with the EV5 kia over this?
Here's a comparison to give you something to think about: https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/kia-ev5-air-v-…
If you just want the conclusion, here's the spoilers:
There’s lots to like with the 2024 Kia EV5 Air, especially the price. It also has a sensible and functional cabin and it’s comfortable on the road. But while it wins on ride comfort against the Tesla Model Y Rear-Wheel Drive, it’s outclassed in space, driving nous and tech. Having to shell out $6000 more for a larger battery also hurts when the equipment list is underwhelming and the standard EV range modest compared with the Tesla.
In short, the EV5 is competent, but in this company it needs to be compelling. The newcomer is the most serious challenger yet to the big gun in EV sales. But the Tesla Model Y still stands tall as the best electric SUV right now – and one of the best SUVs however they’re powered.
Bear in mind that the Juniper update to the Model Y is coming "soon" (by January or February) and will have substantial improvements in NVH, interior equipment and likely also better range & efficiency.
What is NVH
Noise, vibration, harshness.
thanks a lot
might wait to see what next year has
HODL for juniper
Gotta be a long hold. No news yet at China about the release date where the production is. Gotta hold that balls until mid next year.
It is in pre-production now apparently. Release in Feb is the hot take these days
Even at Tesla US, no dates yet. Considering Australia is always late, just the cybertruck alone. Expect to wait long.
@Fredfloresjr: Cybertruck is not compliant in countries outside of US mostly. Model Y is fine from that perspective. Wouldn't expect a long wait.
I could have sworn around midyear he posted on X saying the Model Y refresh will come in 2025. Don't know if any further official news on the timeline has come out.
driven a bunch of electric vehicle Tesla is still the absolute number one in that price segment. Everything is refined. BYD has a bunch of glitches and software issues I wouldn’t get into one for the same price.
so if you own a tesla how does this work? can you trade in your tesla still?
although I generally see the tax cost benefits of having a NL, what I don't understand is that a NL is tied to the employer and if you want to switch jobs or made redundant, you lose the benefits of this scheme, unless you're sure that your new employer has something similar?
if you switch jobs and the new employer does salary sacrificing and have a novated lease provider / do it in house. You can renovated and continue the arrangement. If they do not, then worse that can happen is it defaults to a regular finance loan and you make the monthly repayments yourself + the residual at lease end
So effectively there is only a benefit if you are able to salary sacrifice with your employer
The "regular finance loan" is extremely uncompetitive though - you're likely to be paying an interest rate of around 10% so the car suddenly becomes very expensive if you lose the salary sacrifice.
Yes
Personally, I'd never take a 5 year lease due to uncertainty in my industry. Been made redundant more than once before.
When the inflated novated lease company interest rates revert to being paid with post tax dollars if you lose your job it is not such a great deal. EV lease is probably worth the gamble but never saw the benefit with NL leases on traditional ICE cars myself.
I don’t the details but why would an EV lease be ‘better’ than a ICE lease? Are there government benefits?
ICE lease has to pay Fringe Benefit Tax.
EV lease does not.
Just want to say for those who are comparing interest rates on a novated lease it's pointless because it cannot worked out or compared normally like a loan
There are complex formulas involved in the novated lease interest rate and the residual is also factored in
So you need to factor in the after tax cost over x years + the residual vs your method of buying if not using a NL
E.g. On 5 years of a NL how much does the lease, running expenses + residual cost vs cost of buying outright + 5 years of running expenses
A loan is never better then a novated lease provided you aren't locked into a scammy NL provider so you don't even need to try and compare it to a loan.
if everything goes to plan yes you are right the NL is better
scammy NL = everyone in the McMillan Shakespeare Group aka Remserv & Maxxia…. scum of the earth
thanks OP, I literally made an order yesterday but I managed to regenerate a new invoice a few moments ago. this is probably the biggest saving OzBargain has made me. FTW!
Enjoy :)
Did you call Tesla to get them regenerate a new invoice?
nope. I managed to do it myself on their website. in the order section, just re-do the financing part, and choose novated leasing again etc. and then voila, it generated a new 'final invoice' minus the 3k.
You're the champ! Thank u and thanks op!
I literally picked mine up on Wednesday :(
He got 15 kids to feed…
Any IT contractors here? Just wondering as we jump from 1 contract (aka company) to another so often, is it possible to use the same payroll company even if we get a new contract from a different agent?
my company doesn't offer novated lease to contractor. Check your company first.
good point, will ask them first…Thanks mate
Go your own ABN where you can, also helps writing operational expenses off. That 4090 card is an AI write off 👍👍
Yes if your payroll company does it and you have different contracts no issue
I tried to use the calculator but seems like I need to pay residue after 5y > the money that I saved!? If I earned under $100k is it still worth getting it on NL?
unlikely. Someone did the math and novated lease starts to make sense after around 120k (i could be wrong about the number)
Most likely yes. As long as your tax bracket is well within the 30% tax bracket and the repayments + running cost deductions don't push you too far in the 16% tax bracket.
The calculator (if you are referring to mine) already incorporates this residual amount.
You need to take the fact that all expenses are covered, it reduces your taxable income, and the money you would otherwise have used to pay for the car can earn interest in the bank or not cost interest if you used a redraw in your home loan.
After you take those things into consideration, it should work out more enticing.
Someone linked a good calculator that figures all this out earlier in the thread.
Upvoting cause it's a great deal. Doesn't help me though, I bought my Model 3 with a NL a few months ago. Couldn't speak more highly of the car.
Leasing cars. lol
Good way of outing yourself as a low income earner.
Maybe he/she/it/they has no income or has generational wealth or living off parents. Never assume!
Low income earner with Mustang GT lol sure bro
Damn, son. You a made man.
imagine thinking a Mustang is a flex
@May4th: The latest Mustang GT costs nearly 90k on road. That's more than the average person can afford.
You are missing the point that had plenty of comments already - the $ benefit of novate leasing EVs.
Which is no benefit to ICE cars like Mustang GT.
Having an expensive car does not necessarily prove you are a high income earner. I know of people who drive expensive sport cars or pimped up pickups who spent a significant chunk of their income paying car loans and live pay check to pay check in rental homes or live with their parents.
Warrent Buffet drives a 10-Year-Old Cadillac Bought With Hail Damage https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-drives-10-old-…
Other billionaires are know to drive cheap cars https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/9-billionaires-who-still-dri…I never said it proves you're a high income earner, only that you aren't a low income earner. Those two statements are not the same.
Just want to clarify.
I'm wanting the Model 3 LR AWD in red with white interior which comes to $70,800
In WA you only get the EV rebate for vehicles <$70,000If I were to go through a NL and get the $3,000 incentive, would it take the price to $67,800 and thus allow me to also claim the Govt Rebate?
Spoke with Tesla and indeed it will mean the cost is <$70,000 and therefore will be eligible for Govt rebate.
Just check the government website because in QLD when they had the $6k rebate, you couldn’t claim the $6k with a NL.
In WA you can
I always read all the post and still I am not understanding how this works. If some one kindly guide me to read or watch some video to understand or explain in simple words how this whole things works and helpful in saving tax. TIA
I can provide an example.
You package up the cost of the car + loan as well as the running costs (insurance, tyres, 'fuel' etc.)
Let's say your income is $140,000 (which means after tax you are left with $105,000)
For a $70,000 car, let's say the cost of the Novated Lease comes to $20,000 per yearThat $20,000 is taken PRE-tax so your taxable income is now $120,000 (140,000-20,000)
This means that after tax your take home income is about $92,000So the "cost" to your take home income is about $13,000 ($105,000 - 92,000) per year.
At the end of the lease you then have a residual to pay (which is what is left over from the loan, which is likely to around $15,000) - so you need to pay that off to keep the car or sell it and you keep whatever you sell it for over the $15,000.
If you choose to buy the car via a regular loan (at 2.99%) on a $70,000 car is about $15,000 per year
So this is about $2,000 per year more than a Novated Lease AND this is JUST for the car, it doesn't include Insurance, Tyres, Rego, Maintenance etc.
Conservatively you would say running costs are about $2,000-3,000 depending on your travel etc.
So now you're paying about $4,000-5,000 more per year than the NLAfter 5 years this is about $20,000-25,000 more, which is very likely to be higher than the residual of the NL, so after 5 years you could realistically be $5,000-10,000 better off even after residual.
Plus you've been spending less money on repayments so you have more in your offset or to put towards other investments.
On the flip-side because your costs are coming out pre-tax your super contribution is lower (so take this into account).Your other option is to just pay the $70,000 for the car today and don't have a loan.
However this means the $70,000 is going into a depreciating asset rather than an offset account or shares, so there is still a 'cost'.I hope this info is accurate, If I'm off base with this, please correct me.
Fantastic explanation.
I just didnt get the last parts when you were talking about offsets..
That's assuming a person had the 70k upfront and choses to buy the car outright rather than invest it whilst taking a NL right?Yeah correct, so the last part is a 3rd option of just buying the car with cash.
Thanks mate. Well explained.
One of the best OB comments this year. Well explained.
I think Super contribution been lower is not 100%. You should check with your payroll to see if they calculate super contribution before Novated Lease amount or after.
I would imagine most company do it before. So your contribution is not affected.
Great post btw
Yeah vast majority of employers use the original super contribution amount rather than the reduced gross salary figure post NL for the super calculation.
Some 5-10% of them do however which result in significant reduction in super contributions each year. (I ran a poll among existing NL owner on an EV group) I agree that everyone should check with their own payroll how their super is treated.
Thanks mate this make more sense to me. I appreciate it.
How would this look for some1 earning 58~60k annual pre tax and has salary packaging and NL available thru an healthcare employer in VIC? Asking for a friend :P
Don't buy a $70k car on $60k income :)
Go to paycalculator.com.au and you can use this to determine the outcome based on your pay.
Nup. Still too expensive.
Ok don't buy 😒
I'm Qld Gov and my leasing companies are a ripoff.
Me too, bit have found one for 8.9% and no fees. Need to check using that calculator but seems ok
I just made an order few days ago and going with sgfleet for NL. Who should I contact to discuss about it? Or would it be automatically applied in my final invoice?
Same with sgfleet. Whats the interest rate you get? Cheers.
8%
Anyone with remserv, what sort of interest rate did you get?
They offered me around 11%. I said no
I would be saying no at 11% too.
Don't forget in WA you can also claim the gov EV $3500 rebate on novated leases
The cost of the car must be less than 70k though. So the performance and optioned LR is out of luck on the model Y
Just ordered. Don't forget Further $700 off with a referral code.
Except that it's $350 now, not $700.
That's true. As of this morning
Tesla La give and Tesla La take
Nice! Enough for two PS5 pros WITH a stand … 🙌
I am a best tesla. I am the best tesla.
It's high time they re introduce model x.
Is there a way to get a novated lease if you’re self employed? I work for an employer 1 day a week who offers NL but I may not be continuing my employment for another 3 years so I don’t want to have to terminate the NL early.
I am also self employed (Personal services Income though not a company) for the other 4 days a week and have my wife as an employee and I’m on the maximum tax bracket.
Is there any companies that offer some kind of Novated Lease under these arrangements?
you'd need to be incorporated and employ yourself to be able to set up a self managed NL, or purchase as company without FBT
Check EV "subscription" with AGL, for 6-month or 12-month subscriptions.
https://next.agl.com.au/ev-subscription/salary-packaging/emp…
Is this a cashback to the customer or is it $3000 off the purchase price?
$3000 off the purchase price
you are better off owning the car
At the end of the lease period, you pay the final residual payment and then you DO own the car.
i have talked to many accountants on this and with the all what I learned about it, you don't benefit from this. eg a 5 year lease for say a model Y ends up being 130k with all the fees you end up paying.
That's completely incorrect.
If you're on the 45% tax bracket, then the Model Y will cost you quite a lot less to Novated Lease than it would to buy outright.
If you're on the 37% tax bracket then you're likely to save a small amount on the Novated Lease.
If you're on the 30% tax bracket then the Novated Lease will probably cost you a similar amount to just buying the car - and you also get the benefit of being able to spread the payments over 5 years. This is where the real saving comes from - instead of spending $70K on the car, you can invest that $70K into your mortgage/shares/whatever - this can earn you a significant amount over a 5 year period, whilst you just pay for the lease from your salary instead of needing to spend the lump sum in one go.Read this post for a thorough breakdown - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/15867085/redir
130k pre-tax over 5 years is 65k for the top tax bracket inclusive of all maintenance/insurance/rego/tyres etc and initial GST. even accounting for the 30% balloon at the end you're basically breaking even and then adding the interest from keeping 60k in offset from day 1 of lease you're ahead by a long margin
You either need a better accountant, or you were talking to the accountant in the context of NL with no FBT-exemption ie ICE vehicles.
Get your accountant to have a look at my calculations and point out exactly how I was not saving 46,000 dollars overall.
@changyang1230: as I said I get information from multiple accountants not just one. None agree that this is a good idea.
@kungfuman: And as I have presented, all the maths are there in the spreadsheet. I am literally 46,000 dollars better off than choosing the purchase with cash, and when it comes to numbers there isn't even opinion, numbers are facts.
It's up to you whether you put your faith in "a few accountants", vs verifying the maths yourself, and many thousands of people who are happy with their decision.
@kungfuman: We've all just explained in detail why you are incorrect.
It doesn't matter how many accountants you've spoken to, if you're asking them the wrong questions.Novated Lease operation isn't a secret - get a quote from your employer's provider, and look at the numbers for yourself.
You don't need an accountant to compare the cost to your take home pay, with the cost of a car loan, and/or the saving from dropping the $70K into your mortgage for 5 years. One of these three options costs you $X, the second option costs you $Y, and the third option saves you $Z.
That's a nice way of inserting a floor under the RRP to see through the Chinese EV bloodbath.
For anyone that's interested in finding out more about this, we've published an article here: https://whipsmart.au/2024/11/01/tesla-novated-lease-unlock-3…
And we're happy to assist anyone looking to take advantage of this great offer - www.whipsmart.au/contact
Do I get any deal for posting this thread 😃
Hi, can you tell us what your interest rate is? Can you give an example of current repayment per month for 100k salary? I am looking at toyotafleetmanagement calculator and seems reasonable.
On a 100K salary, the fortnightly payment for a 50K EV will be somewhere around $370.
ie If you were getting $3000 paid into your bank account on pay day, then you'll get $2630 once the lease is underway.
Thanks, so this is your experience with whipsmart?
@naira: Nope, they're just generic novated lease approximations.
In theory, WhipSmart should be cheaper than those numbers…
Does anyone know how long is the delivery for a RWD with colour, either grey or red? I need another week or 2 to decide
Just wondering if there is a good way of working out whether the NL company is actually charging you the rate they quoted? They did tell me 8.6% but not sure they can be trusted, even though the website said self managed lease with own finance they said it was not for private employees…
Lease repayments worked out $283 per week plus $85 for maintenance etc over 3 years. Still seems abit high too me?
This was for the model y base SR vehicle value shown as $54580
I ran my numbers through the calculator of changyang and it said 21k less then paying cash for it and less then 1k based on my circumstances keeping old car.
Does anyone know if this mean if I have a second source of income aside from my base salary of $140k then I will see further benefits come tax time?
who was the vendor you used here?
@KingJuf your figures don't add up, something is wrong.
283 + 85 = 368 per week (this number is humongous and cannot be correct - it's probably a useless pre-tax figure that the lease companies love to use - you need to ask them what is the weekly cost TO YOU, ie What is the effect on your weekly pay ? It's probably more like 200-250 ish)
368 * 52 = 19,136 per year
19136 * 3 = 57,408 total
Residual payment after 3 years = 46.88% of original price $54580 = 25,587.104
57408 lease + 25587 residual = 82995 total.
Some of these figures are clearly wrong, check your quote again.
Yeh sorry those figures were pre tax, if I just include my main income source which the novated lease would be under it comes to $250 per week out of pocket after tax. But I just discovered section 4 in @changyang1230 spread sheet and that indicates my rate would be around 10% assuming I use my pre tax fortnightly figure here.
$250 x 156 weeks $39k plus $28k residual is the actual cost to me.
Hi sorry didn't see your mention earlier.
Yeah "effective interest rate" is an interesting one. As the NL has such complex structure with 2-month deferment and a balloon amount, the usual online loan calculator wouldn't work out of the box so you would have to literally draw up your own amortisation table and set your own formula in your spreadsheet etc (as I tried to explain on the page).
The thing is - using 36 months as an example.
2 months deferred means that instead of the regular loan where repayment payment goes in at month 1, 2, 3, etc until month 36, they would only start from month 3, 4, etc till month 36. However they still charge interest every single month including month 1 and 2 where you haven't started making payment.
And with the balloon amount, it means that instead of hitting zero at the end of the term, you hit the balloon amount (which then gets GST added to it to become the figure you need to pay).
Anyway. The reason I am mentioning the details above is - by using some company's figures and some back-engineering, I realised that some companies (at least Maxxia and SG fleet) use this alternative formula where instead of month 3 to 36, the payment goes in month 2 to 35 which is odd - but that's the payment structure that their figure assumes, which partially contributes to the discrepancy seen between their interest number and mine.
As for your last question: as mentioned on my original "taxable income" cell, your benefit will be based on ALL income, not just your base salary at your workplace. In the end, if your income is say 140 base and 90 bonus, the effect of tax saving is going to come from reducing your taxable income from 230k to say 210k (hence 45+2% discount effect), instead of 140k to 120k (hence only 37+2 and 30+2 effect).
Yeh I am trying to work out if there is any way to hold them to their word based on the calculations but I get that it could get tricky with the 2months deferred etc. might see if they can offer any better but I suspect as my employer only allows this company they might not be willing to budge.
Regarding the secondary income I guess this is where I may have some benefit come tax time if my base is 140k and additional income pre tax is 20k since its subcontracted work.
Thanks for your help with the calculator it definitely helps put things into perspective.
Do you know if we can still use a Tesla referral if we purchase via NL? Or would the NL company handle all the ordering?
For a Tesla you have to purchase the car yourself (you first click the referral link of your choosing to enter the Tesla website which will see your discount automatically applied) - then pay the 400 dollars deposit with your own money. And then you send the invoice to the NL company and they deal with the rest which is to pay Tesla when everything is settled, plus to refund you the 400 dollars you paid.
@changyang1230: Cheers for that!
One more question, whats your thoughts on taking a 2 year lease then follow up with another 1-2 year lease?
I really feel like being locked in for more than a couple years could be abit of a trap.
My employer said I can use any NL company, so what's the best way to go? Get a bunch of quotes from the big players?
Wondering if this will be extended into 2025? $3K is incentive is tempting. Keen to hear others thoughts?
My NL expiring in March 2025. Looking at the M3 RWD in Quicksilver.
I don't believe it will be extended into 2025.
Can't remember if they have ever extended any of their special deals besides with all the news rumours regarding refresh M3 & MY for next year 2025, my guess would be less special deal offers and or potentially a slight price increase for the new updated model versions but its like anyones guess lol.
I would love a 0% interest deal on financing MY like in the USA !
Even with all the new Chines EV competitors entering the Australian market I doubt Tesla will be partaking in the Chinese EV price wars, instead reducing even more the manufacturing costs :)
Next year I would expect them to announce Australian CyberTruck release & delivery dates for late 2025 early 2026
Speaking with Tesla they said it may but that will based on volume of orders and also how many of those vehicles arrived before the deadline.
Thankyou. I'm contacting them tomorrow to confirm wait time for Quicksilver in WA for the M3.
Going to clear my NL early (no penalty) and pull the trigger if they can apply the $3K in time.
You looking at one?
Yes Model Y performance, I’ve seen the available vehicles en route. Will get either plain white with enhanced auto pilot or Quicksilver w/white interior + enhanced auto pilot. Both should come below the LCT threshold when factoring in $3k discount and $350 referral fee.
Not sure if it’s been shared around but there is a NL spreadsheet that helps with the calculations. The 3000 incentive is already included into it and it’s a good way to compare it against an ICE vehicle and any quotes that you’re getting. You might also want to ask if they have any other quote providers. NSW govt usually uses Maxxia but it’s possible to ask sg fleets depending on the department and they’re much cheaper compared to them.
Do you have a link to this spreadsheet by any chance? :)
Legend!
Can this be combined with the $1,400 referee discount? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/880660
Also, any experience on how accurate is Tesla's estimated delivery? There's no inventory of Model 3 RWD in the colour we want, but estimate says December 2024.
Then again all Model 3/Y RWD/AWD 18"/19" all colours are estimated December 2024, only performance variants are Jan-Feb 2025.
Yes you can combine the two.
Also, any experience on how accurate is Tesla's estimated delivery?
Call the dealership and ask. Will be more accurate than on the website.
Thanks, did ask them when we where there to test drive.
They can't guarantee it, but some are coming in December. They encourage us to order soon.
Unlike the referee bonus (-$1,400), is the novated lease discount (-$3,000) not reflected in the order summary?
Very cool. A colleague of mine in Newcastle just got a 7-day turnaround on her novated Lease for a Model Y! She's so happy :D
Considering Tesla has a centralized pricing model and that this is specifically for leasing which is already minus the full GST for a car priced at this level, this is a decent deal for people looking to novate. That said, i wont buy a Tesla. The chinese EVs are so much better.
Not a bad deal
I'm totally interested with Tesla until I see this video this morning and now I'm thinking twice to get it now; especially I love the idea of FSD option…
And yes, I know that this feature is a small part of other great functions of the car…
Valid until 20th December, good timing to see if they drop price further to clear current inventory