Reversing Skeletal Fluorosis Caused by Fluoridated Water

This is my story about how I reversed a mild form of skeletal fluorosis.

How many people do you know that have a hunched back and/or rounded shoulders? To what extent can this be attributed to fluoride levels in the water? Are these symptoms we see in society actually a reflection of the lower end of the spectrum for skeletal fluorosis?

I am currently in the process of a decade long process to remove fluoride from my body. Even low amounts of fluoride can seemingly affect some people more than others. I happen to unluckily to be one of those people that are more sensitive to this chemical.

I do not know how long it will take to fully recover but the normal process of your body growing means it replaces your skeleton every 10 or so years. The fluoride in your bones is broken down and some of it is ultimately reprocessed into your new bones. What I wanted do was replace the fluoride in my bones with stronger minerals such as calcium, magnesium, phosphorous and so far I have been quite successful. These days I am pretty much standing upright and there is only a slight rounding of my shoulders.

When I was younger, I always wondered why I had a hunched back and I never really spent that much time behind a computer. In fact I would hear friends tell me that they would stay up all night playing Age of Empires 2, Doom, Diablo and other games for hours. I never did that and I was jealous because they sit with the weirdest lazy posture without having back problems!!! I could never explain why I looked the way I did until my science teacher at High School asked me what I brushed my teeth with, which was Colgate at the time, whilst also mentioning water fluoridation. At this point in time I didn't put all the information together.

At university when I was studying CHEM1901 and CHEM1902 at USYD was when everything finally clicked as a tutor that was working with me in the laboratory mentioned it to me. I also noticed I was very sensitive to the chemicals in the lab as ventilation was limited to the fume cupboard and the doors.

I don't know if there is a correlation to being sensitive to chemicals used in common science experiments in general, and sensitivity to fluoride. I suspect there is some correlation but I haven't been able to conduct any actual surveys or do research myself as pretty much not many people in the public are even aware of skeletal fluorosis. For one, the physiotherapists and chiropractors thought it was something to do with my posture but it wasn't.

Maybe this is a wake up call for those others who have been unsuccessful with correcting their posture. It could be a form of mild skeletal fluorosis caused by fluoridated water.

I still have vivid memories of rolling a towel along its shorter edge to create a long towel roll to place where my spine was, elevating a pillow to lie down on for multiple 10 minute sessions a day. It was not only painful but useless because it didn't bloody work and demoralised me in many ways I cannot explain.

Fluoride basically displaces other essential minerals from your bones and teeth. What I never understood was why there is this push for fluoridation. Fluoridated teeth and bones are more fragile because it displaces other minerals from your teeth and bones which is basic science. You want to assist the tooth to remineralise but if you understand the science you don't want to be remineralising with fluoride. Fluoride compounds are much less robust than the calcium, magnesium, phosphorous which it ultimately ends up displacing, leading to more brittle bones and teeth which is why the structure of the bones for those with skeletal fluorosis is much weakened leading to the "hunchback effect".

This is the real science which is hidden from the Australian public.

Skeletal fluorosis is actually more common than we think and I bet you have gone to someone at school who has a hunched back. It isn't genetic in most circumstances. It is an environmental problem caused by fluoride. At its early stages it can even be reversed by removing fluoride from the water you drink. Ultimately you are going to be consuming some amount of fluoride in grains, fruits and vegetables, and meat. You only need trace amounts of fluoride.

If you still think there is some usefulness of topical fluoride, then you could continue doing that but there is some science that topical fluoride displaces minerals and even prevents remineralisation. Either way, you should not be ingesting it in the concentration that it exists in our current water supply where it can end up in the rest of your skeleton. It's crazy how Australia is in the position it is, when many scandinavian countries don't fluoridate their water and have seen the same decrease in dental cavities because of modern dental interventions and education regarding brushing.

The history behind why we had fluoride added to water is because it was an industrial byproduct that was costly to dispose of. That's the real history.

Journal of Biomed Research

Due to fluorosis, people's teeth become weak and discoloured (dental fluorosis) and their bones become hollow and weak (skeletal fluorosis).

Fluoride is a known neurotoxin and is linked to lower IQ.

Maternal Urinary Fluoride and Child Neurobehavior at Age 36 Months

Systematic review of water fluoridation

We estimate that six people (95% confidence interval 4 to 21) would have to be exposed to water fluoride concentrations of 1.0 ppm for one additional person to develop fluorosis of any degree, compared with a theoretical low fluoride concentration of 0.4 ppm.

A lot of people are affected by fluorosis and probably don't know about it. This comes from the statistical inference that 1 in 6 people are affected by fluorosis at 1ppm which is gleamed from the systematic review journal article above and is the level that is targeted by Sydney Water and other Australian water authorities. What is a safe level? Obviously they should just remove it altogether to simplify the health framework because likely other parts of your diet already contain some amount of trace fluoride. You can add fluoride topically to your teeth if you need it. For me, I had a very low fluoride diet and I was still a victim. That shows you show sinister the current health status quo is.

I could point to hundreds of different snippets of information, but in essence this post is just a FYI if you are suffering some sort of hunched back which has not been able to be corrected through physiotherapy or chiropractic care. Try removing fluoride from your drinking water. You won't avoid fluoride altogether because trace amounts exist in our food supply, but I would not deem 1ppm to be trace amounts in Sydney's water supply since there are plenty of other articles about 1.5ppm causing skeletal fluorosis. Plainly 1ppm is much higher than it should naturally be. For those who want to claim "Gotcha, India has high natural levels of fluoride", and yep guess what, they have higher incidence of skeletal fluorosis. It is not cool.

To re-emphasise from above: These days I am pretty much standing upright and there is only a slight rounding of my shoulders. I basically look normal again! Removing fluoridated water from your diet works.

Comments

  • +192

    TLDR: Congrats, you cured your hunchback by avoiding tap water for 10 years. Revolutionary stuff.

    Level 34 - Trolling ✅

      • +19

        The court notes that its finding “does not conclude with certainty that fluoridated water is injurious to public health; rather, as required by the Amended TSCA, the Court finds there is an unreasonable risk of such injury, a risk sufficient to require the EPA to engage with a regulatory response.”

        In other words - it may or may not have any adverse consequences, but the EPA needs to study it further as it meets a threshold that requires further study.

        see also https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/29918/AAP-stands-b…

          • +5

            @EightImmortals: Unreasonable risk’ is the wording in the legislation. Not the finding of the court.

        • -2

          If the risk is high enough to warrant investigation/study, shouldn't its use be ceased? "We think it might be deleterious to your health, but we should keep exposing everybody in the country to it until we get around to looking into it."

          • @OzBarAnon: Yeah nah. Nothing already happens in the government, if we had to cancel shit already existing before we know whats wrong with it we be back to the dark ages in 20 years.

            Or maybe we wouldnt have global warming, swings and roundabouts i guess.

          • +1

            @OzBarAnon: So you want to ban everything unless it has been studied and conclusively proven to have zero negative impacts?

      • +2

        Lol
        You went down the rabbit hole

    • +53

      Stop playing with your mobile phone and start bird watching and basketball your back will be straight as a pole in no time.

      In VIC and NSW we have about 1PPM of fluoride added to our water.

      According to google, toothpaste on average 1000PPM maybe you should stop brushing your teeth to fix your bone.
      BTW, the dentist fluoride gel, anywhere 10,000PPM to 20,000PPM. I bet your bone turns into powder as soon as the dentist apply the gel on you.

      • -1

        LOLOL!!!

      • +1

        I was anti fluoride. Then used Colgate 5000. Worked really well and a few uses. Best $11 for a medical product imo. Great for just teeth I guess.

    • +2

      I'd never heard of skeletal fluoridosis so googled it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_fluorosis

      seems to be more common in India, China or Iceland - OP, is that you … ?

      1250 words of OMG is this anything !? - hmm, been called out at level 34, so I dunno.

      good luck with your lunchpack ye olde hunchback !

  • +113

    You lost me at chiropractors.

    • +15

      But they are DOCTORS !!!!!

      • -1

        So is a Vet.

        • +41

          My father in law is a vet. Served in Vietnam

        • +1

          At least a Vet has a PhD. Not just a doctor of chiro.

          • +2

            @ColtNoir: Maybe ….. but probably not.

          • +4

            @ColtNoir: You are just plain wrong.

          • @ColtNoir: they dont unless they sign with DVM, PhD

          • +2

            @ColtNoir: Not usually. They usually have a bachelor of veterinary science (or similar) which qualifies them to use the title Doctor, be registered with their local veterinary registration board and practice veterinary medicine. They don't need a PhD.

        • +4

          Terrible comparison, id hate to be a Vet.

          One minute treating the anatomy of a dog, then the next a turtle.
          And they are surgeons on top of that.

          And dealing with the extreme emotions and outbursts of some owners would be traumatic in itself.

          • +2

            @AnotherRedLight:

            One minute treating the anatomy of a dog, then the next a turtle.
            And they are surgeons on top of that.

            As a reptile handler I've taken injured red bellies, eastern browns and Lace Monitors to Vets.

      • +8

        crack addicts

      • +1

        If chiroquackers are doctors then I'm Batman.

      • did you know that top specialist doctors are no longer called doctors ?

        they get to be called MISTER

        in case you missed it, that's 'Mister' to you - a higher form of respectful honorific than mere 'Doctor'

        "What are you looking at - Mister !??" - "Oh - my throat … ? Ok then …"

        maybe like the Sloane Rangers, of which Princess Diana was one - dressing in secret code style that looks ordinary to the uninitiated, but signals membership of an exclusive club to those 'in the know'

      • Chiropractors are murderous scamming scum.

    • +1

      My neighbour's a chiropractor - he's a knob.

  • +61

    To what extent can this be attributed to fluoride levels in the water?

    Nil.

    • +11

      5 bucks it’s because ops parents refused to vaccinate.

    • A second question is why put fluoride in our water in the first place?

      • +7

        A second question is why put fluoride in our water in the first place?

        Where have you been the past 71 years?

        • -1

          Under a rock. Can I get an answer then?

          • +2

            @Cusack:

            Under a rock. Can I get an answer then?

            I don't know when you emerged from under the rock but, there is this new thing called Google, where you are able to find answers to difficult questions.

            https://www.google.com/

            If you are really computer savvy there is an even more amazing thing called AI.

      • +3

        so that the majority of the population have healthy teeth, better nutrition in old age, and don't have to pay for dentures

        • +1

          Why stop at flouride?
          Hypothetical, if they could put multivitamins in our water should they do that also? A bit of vitamin A is good for everyone afterall

          • @Cusack: They kinda do. Not to water. But many common groceries have added vitamins in them.

          • +1

            @Cusack: What weird logic. Why does everything to be either nothing or everything to make sense to some people. Jeez.

      • +1

        So that people who do not brush their teeth are recieving flouride protection.

  • +36

    Only water not worth drinking in most circumstances is bottled water. Massive waste of resources and contain micro plastics.

    Tap water is just fine, and if it isn't, get a reverse osmosis system and a mineral additive.

    • +1

      Or a water tank.

        • -1

          Yeah you have to filter it pretty well no argument there. But it least it doesn't have sodium flurosilicate and a heap of chloramines in it. Also add a bit of Hydrosil once a month.

      • +6

        What if the water tank is plastic too? It is really just a massive water bottle?

      • Then you're introducing bacteria

      • 'get a water tank' ?

        and grow your own frogs

    • I thought the RO membrane was usually some sort of synthetic polymer… isn't that a source of microplastic there?

  • +8

    tl;dr

    Level 6 - Helpful ✅

    • +11

      From the tldr site:

      The article narrates the author's personal journey of overcoming skeletal fluorosis, a condition exacerbated by fluoride exposure through drinking water and dental products. The author reflects on the societal implications of fluorosis, questioning the widespread acceptance of water fluoridation, and links it to poor posture and physical deformities commonly seen in individuals. Throughout their decade-long struggle, they have worked to replace fluoride in their bones with beneficial minerals such as calcium and magnesium, leading to significant improvements in their physical condition. The narrative emphasizes that many may unknowingly suffer from skeletal fluorosis due to environmental factors, suggesting that eliminating fluoride from water could help alleviate these issues. The author's experience serves as a call to raise awareness about the potential harms of fluoride in public health policies.

      Level 5 - helping the lazy and wanted to be part of the rating system✅

      • +3

        I like that the site accurately described it as a ‘narrative’ 👍🏻

        • +1

          Today's story - boys and girls …

  • +44

    Brutha go to the gym, work out and strengthen your back and core. Your posture is not governed by your bones but rather your muscles

    • +1

      Kyphosis has entered the chat :(

    • Not sure this is that true either? Seen some very skinny girls with excellent posture, and reasonably strong looking men with shit house posture.

      • +1

        Yes, due to specific muscle strength and balance.

        E.g. if I only do bench press, ill get big arms and chest and hunch forward due to weak back.

        • Yeah exactly. Also you dont have to be absolutely jacked to have enough strength to have good posture. Strength is in proportion to your size. Somewhat unrelated but e.g. I am rather skinny but I can do pullups with ease, because I am skinny

    • +1

      I’m sure genetics is part of it.

      My brother in law is a sloth with the worst eating and health habits, but him and his family all have straight backs and shoulders. Zero strength, over weight, lazy as you can imagine.

      I’m not exactly buff, but I move and exercise 5x him, eat the opposite of him, but I have slight hunch and rounded shoulders. Alaays have, my son who is only a few years old has the exact same posture as me sadly, not his mums.

      • I think so. My partners family all seem to be prone to having anterior hip tilt. I had it pretty bad when I was younger. Through strengthening the right areas of my body I've been able to reduce it quite significantly now.

        Genetics plays a part but it doesn't mean you can't offset that with some effort.

        • Yeah I think it’s a combination of both. Like most things, personality intro/extroversion etc. some things comes more naturally for some people some people have to work particularly hard to archive the same outcome.

          For me personally, I have to keep reminding myself to straighten my back when I stand, and after a while my body just feels tense and tired and it’s so exhausting. But I keep at it coz I know it’s only right.

          • @cloudy: Yeah I agree. Similar for me, keep at it brother it will get easier.

            I had terrible posture and it was soooo hard and tiring to keep it better. But over time it got easier to the point of feeling natural. Working out the required muscles helped hugely too

  • +12

    Me looking at that wall of gibberish

    https://tenor.com/0KPB.gif

  • +10

    I have confirmed dental fluorosis from childhood over exposure, our local baby clinic kept advising parents to give drops to babies even though our water was fluorinated and my mum thought more was better so I got way over recommended dose. I have no idea if have skeletal fluorosis as well, so curious as to how yours was diagnosed, or if you are running off your own hypothesis.

    All the advice I have had is though my teeth are discoloured (and covered in veneers) it should make my teeth more resistant to cavities rather than less.

    I can confirm though that the health authorities did try to cover it up, made it exceptionally hard to put in a claim for my parents and I asked them not to worry about it in the end as teenager not loving the assessments and attention. I actually met with one of the key players who introduced it in Sydney, and he reckon I had osteogenesis imperfecta, purely from looking at my teeth, which I clearly don't have (you know about it if you have this condition). He came across as trying to protect his idea and program as having no consequences and a win for society, which is a bit silly as really it wouldn't have been his fault as he didn't recommend having it in water and drops.

    Anyway despite this experience my reading on the topic is that with the amount used in water, benefits outweigh risk in the general population. Cutting fluoride once you're an adult probably isn't a big drama either, but probably best for children as long as within the recommended dose and using a low flouride toothpaste (as per age recommendations).

    For you OP I suspect your improvement is from a concerted effort to improve your posture, through exercise, stretching etc.

    • +4

      Oh also had my IQ measured as a kid as I wasn't the best a concentrating in class, turns out I was pretty smart (IQ wise anyway). Scored in the highest range that could be measured with the test they used in my age range, and that was after above normal fluoride exposure. Imagine how smart I would have been without fluoride!! I probably wouldn't be on this forum post right now because I'd be smart enough to be doing something else.

      • +21

        Or smart enough to edit your first response.

        Level 3 - informative ✅

        • +7

          That’s harsh mate, poor kid has dental fluorosis.

    • -1

      Teeth discolouration is generally due to babies and developing kids taking antibiotics as they grow.

      Im sorry but by your logic every kids would have discloured teeth. What someone says in a baby clinic doesnt nullify years of research

      • +2

        Mine is definitely dental fluorosis. Every dentist I’ve ever seen has confirmed. It has a distinct pattern with ultra white areas and brown areas (search dental fluorosis). It’s essentially over mineralisation from over exposure to flouride in early life. Hence what I wrote about it generally not being associated with decay. other causes around. I definitely have dental fluorosis.

        Also. Read what I wrote a) mine wasn’t from drinking water alone, it was from oral drops that were only meant to be given in areas without fluorinated water, we had fluorinated water also. b) I wrote that the benefits of fluoride in water outweigh the risks. So I don’t know what you’re sorry about, unless you’re anti fluoride in water.

        With every public health measure there are a small number of cases where people get adverse outcomes or events. It doesn’t mean that the intervention is wrong. But it also doesn’t mean those adverse outcomes aren’t real. Also mine wasn’t from drinking water alone - I was essentially triple dosed because baby clinic didn’t update their practice and stop advising fluoride drops and then my mum being the goose she was decided to give more than that.

        My kid drinks fluorinated water and brushes his teeth with fluorinated toothpaste appropriate to his age.

        • +1

          are you from India, China or Iceland too ?

          • @Hangryuman: Sydney’s north shore in the 80s, so pretty much equivalent.

        • It is from swallowing toothpaste as a kid… Don't think so hard about it.

          • @Juice-Wa: Nah developmentally from the timeline of when drops were given, and teeth are formed it was from the drops. These are drops that are no longer given and weren’t meant to be given even at the time in areas with fluorinated water. Not over thinking it, just thought it was and interesting anecdote of what happens with higher than recommended doses. I have no idea if I have skeletal fluorosis as well, but no hunch back here.

    • I apologies because this will probbably come across as argumentative, but im just trying to understand.

      What sort of claim were you parents trying to put in when (by your own admission) your mother gave you higher than recommended doses?

      Parents deciding to give higher than recommended doses of all manner of things has lead to all manner of issues, so im curious what they were trying to argue, thay because it wasnt made explicitly clear "don't take more than the maximum dose" its the health departments fault?

      • It was the 80s. They told my parents to give fluoride drops even though that should have stopped once water was fluorinated. Then possibly my mum gave some extra, but it’s very unclear. But the fear was re the water from the authorities when that really wasn’t the issue it was the drops that shouldn’t have been prescribed in the first place.

        Anyway my parents are dead so I don’t want to shame them and no claim was made but they had a very valid point that nurse should have stopped giving fluoride drops once it was in the water supply. We need active citizens like my parents to call things out when they aren’t right for the benefit of all. Lucky I can afford veneers so really all okay. But just thought useful anecdote to share as not many are nuanced on the issue.

        I guess my point is fluorosis can be real, but likely not from the amount in the water supply.

  • +30

    Must be a slow Tuesday for OP to be typing that much for an N=1 anecdote.

  • +15

    CrapGPT

  • +4

    Cool story.

  • +2

    This reminds me of the precious bodily fluids scene with Brigadier General Jack D Ripper in Dr Strangelove.

    OP, I hope you like grain alcohol mixed with rainwater!

  • +13

    Take some horse paste. Heard that does wonders for everything.

    could never explain why I looked the way I did until my science teacher at High School asked me what I brushed my teeth with, which was Colgate at the time, whilst also mentioning water fluoridation

    Fun fact: You're not the only one who brushes with toothpaste and drinks water.

    At no point did you confirm your suspicions paranoia with a legitimate diagnosis.

  • +6

    This is bad and you should feel bad.

    • +1

      How I reversed feeling bad about shit posting pseudoscience walls of text to an enloop enthusiast forum:

      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed a molestie odio…

  • +27

    Obvious question: If fluoride in water causes hunchbacks, and pretty much everyone drank tap water before bottled became trendy in the 1990s, why are there so few hunchbacks? Even now most people consume water containing fluoride, either directly by drinking or through other ways such as cooking, restaurant meals, etc.

    "Skeletal fluorosis is actually more common than we think and I bet you have gone to someone at school who has a hunched back. It isn't genetic in most circumstances. It is an environmental problem caused by fluoride. "

    Someone? In all of school? So it's a rare condition, caused by everyone consuming fluoridated water. Got it.

    • +10

      obviously Quasimodo must have drunk fluoridated water.

  • +4

    No.

  • +19

    Texas has naturally high occurring levels of fluoride compared to other states across the US. This is due to natural oil deposits, and rocks and sediments such as granite that add this natural fluoride to water sources. This is also why the presence of calcium fluoride within public drinking water is also frequent across the state..

    Some counties, such as Borden with 5.50mg/L, Roosevelt with 4.37 mg/L and Hidalgo seeing 4.35 mg/L, source

    1mg/L = 1 ppm

    so, if 1.5ppm causes skeletal fluorosis, then in Texas where some areas have nearly 4 times that amount then wouldn't there be an obvious cluster of people with skeletal fluorosis?

    • +6

      It's extra lithium we need in water, not fluoride

      • I thought it was electrolytes

        • +6

          That's what the plants crave

          • +3

            @mikkeyg: I'm pretty sure what's killing the crops is the Brawndo stuff

    • How many people are actually drinking that water though? The USA has a safe drinking limit of like 1 ppm flouride. I’ve visited places within Australia that distributed non-potable water via the municipal water mains.

    • -1

      To be fair, if fluoride lowers IQ and you're talking about counties in Texas…

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