No Stop Council Fine in Court

LBarhunter89 on 21/08/2024 - 20:45
Last edited 21/08/2024 - 20:55 by 1 other user

Hi all, the other day a council ranger issued a fine in regards to disobeying a no stop sign.

I requested for a review, as I stopped for pedestrian who was crossing the road. Review request was denied, following that I selected to go to court. I am going to plead guilty as I did stop in a no stopping zone but have a valid justification.

Just wondering of court still finds me guilty, will this conviction go on my criminal record. First such fine issued to me in 10 years of driving. This happened in NSW and have an NSW licence.

Automotive Fine

Comments

  • randomusername2017 on 21/08/2024 - 20:53
    +42

    No way you got done for parking in a no standing zone for just stopping for a pedestrian. Good luck in court 🤞

    No..it's not a criminal conviction.

    • original15 on 21/08/2024 - 21:30
      +20

      We need the full story.
      Pedestrian was a passenger you stopped to pick up?

      • Makaveli99 on 22/08/2024 - 08:59
        +10

        Yea not enough details by OP, wasting our precious time

        • OzzyOzbourne on 22/08/2024 - 09:12

          " I stopped for pedestrian who was crossing the road"

          • Makaveli99 on 22/08/2024 - 17:26
            +4

            @OzzyOzbourne: Dashcam or at least MS paint diagram as per ozbargain standards haha

        • smartazz104 on 22/08/2024 - 09:27
          +7

          precious time

          Doubt.

    • HeWhoKnows on 22/08/2024 - 08:17
      -7

      Hmm Depends if OP was out of thier car when fine was issued.
      Maybe OP got out to help the little old lady cross the road?

  • SnoozeAndLose on 21/08/2024 - 20:58
    +7

    Even if you are determining as guilty, you will need to pay for the court fee plus the fine. This is not a criminal offence

    • happydude on 21/08/2024 - 22:41
      -8

      It's not a criminal offence but it goes on your criminal record as a traffic offence.

        • howcan on 22/08/2024 - 11:24
          +4

          Straight from your link:

          Your criminal record will also include criminal and traffic offences where you have taken a fine to court, and the Court convicted you.

          • SnoozeAndLose on 22/08/2024 - 11:33

            @howcan: It said "except parking offences" I think no stopping is one of the parking offences which you try to park/stop at no stopping sign.

            A parking offence is when you illegally park or stop a vehicle on a NSW public or private road.

            In most cases, you'll be issued a penalty notice which will require you to pay a fine. For more serious parking offences, you may also have demerit points added to your licence.

            The most common offences include parking a vehicle:

            • incorrectly into a parallel or angle parking space
            • in ticketed, metered or coupon parking space without paying
            • in loading or no stopping zones
            • for longer than the time allowed
            • outside a marked parking space
            • on a medium or nature strip
            • in a mobility parking spot without a permit.

            Serious parking offences include:

            • parking in a mobility parking space without a permit
            • using your mobility permit incorrectly or illegally
            • parking on or near intersections with pedestrian crossings.
        • subwoofer on 23/08/2024 - 16:43

          that's not google search

    • knasty on 22/08/2024 - 09:38
      +9

      This is incorrect. Have gone to court 3 times for traffic fines. You can plead guilty and if the magistrate dismisses the infringement there's no fine and no court fee.

      • Poor Ass on 22/08/2024 - 10:38
        +3

        tell me more about your cases

      • SnoozeAndLose on 22/08/2024 - 10:48
        -1

        So if the magistrate plead guilty on you and not dismisses those fine and court fee then you will end up paying both right?

      • trapper on 22/08/2024 - 11:07
        +2

        Why would the magistrate dismisses the infringement if you plead guilty? Doesn't make any sense.

        • knasty on 22/08/2024 - 11:35

          Research Section 10 dismissal in NSW or equivalent in other states.

          • trapper on 22/08/2024 - 15:05
            -4

            @knasty: I asked why.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/08/2024 - 11:14

            @knasty: Guessing your 3 times were prior to 2018 amendments. Things have changed. Beware.

            • knasty on 23/08/2024 - 13:44
              +2

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Most recently Jan of this year. What changes are you referring to?

              I Self represented for a low range speeding fine, plead guilty, requested a s10 dismissal. The magistrate thanked me for my guilty plea and asked to explain the circumstances. after being lectured (which I deserved) the infringement was dismissed due to the circumstances and my relatively good but not perfect driving history. No fine, no court costs and no demerit points. The process is quite easy to understand when you Google it.

              I'm not going to advise people what they should do; I'm just pointing out that the original statement in this thread is not correct.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 24/08/2024 - 08:22
                +1

                @knasty: CROs

                Make sure you're a good lad now for the next 5 years.

              • trapper on 26/08/2024 - 17:42

                @knasty:

                the infringement was dismissed due to the circumstances

                What circumstances? You still haven't explained why a magistrate would dismiss the infringement.

      • happydude on 23/08/2024 - 15:06
        +1

        Yes, if

  • Ryanek on 21/08/2024 - 21:00
    +25

    Four years without a word and your first post is a driving question? Nice.

    • Barhunter89 on 21/08/2024 - 21:05
      +15

      Silently reaping the benefits of being an Ozbargainer.

    • donga100 on 21/08/2024 - 21:09
      +6

      What other topics are discussed here apart from traffic infringements and not having insurance?

      • jv on 21/08/2024 - 22:04
        +3

        Gift cards ?

        • Murkymerv on 21/08/2024 - 22:52
          +9

          JV ,"you've done it again".

    • Duckie2hh on 21/08/2024 - 23:13
      +1

      Its the ozbargain way

    • overthinking on 22/08/2024 - 08:30
      +1

      certified lurker

    • cashless on 22/08/2024 - 17:21

      OP's been busy hunting bars

  • ihfree on 21/08/2024 - 21:26
    +11

    Got dashcam footage? Where's the MS Paint diagram?

  • Porker on 21/08/2024 - 21:27
    +14

    It's permitted to disobey a parking road rule to comply with a permitted other. As example, stopping in a No Stopping zone while at a red light or at a STOP sign.

    I suspect you're not giving the full story. Eg. How long you were stationary for? Did anyone get in or out of your vehicle? Or you indeed stopped to give way but didnt pull away and stayed stationary, etc.

  • KangaDrew on 21/08/2024 - 21:43
    +11

    Missing context: OP is an Uber driver

    • randomusername2017 on 21/08/2024 - 21:54
      +2

      Uber good driver…10 years of not getting caught in Sydney for a parking infringement…pretty impressive.

    • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 04:18

      OP is a law abiding, tax paying, ozbargain citizen and works in banking. If this helps.

      • Krankite on 22/08/2024 - 07:24
        +7

        law abiding, tax paying banker? no wonder you need ozbargain

      • Munki on 22/08/2024 - 09:20
        +3

        Must be in your high yield investment European car then.

      • KangaDrew on 22/08/2024 - 12:44
        +1

        OP is a law abiding, tax paying, ozbargain citizen and works in banking

        You stopped in a no stopping zone - was that law abiding? Also, many people have a primary job and drive for Uber as their side hustle, so your counter-argument is redundant.

  • Toph Beifong on 21/08/2024 - 21:43
    +3

    Dash cams are on sale

  • jv on 21/08/2024 - 22:03
    -7

    a fine in regards to disobeying a no stop sign.

    and

    I requested for a review, as I stopped

    Case closed

  • spackbace on 21/08/2024 - 22:10
    +4

    Hammer time?

  • happydude on 21/08/2024 - 22:38
    -3

    You are going to get burned. I can tell straight away.

    You say you are going to plead guilty AND then wonder if the court will find you guilty. It's an easy one, yes, if you plead guilty you will be found guilty and convicted.

    If you are convicted it goes on your criminal record as a traffic offence, although you can apply for a section 10.

    You've been really silly here not just paying the infringement. You should contact legal aid.

    Your criminal record will also include criminal and traffic offences where you have taken a fine to court, and the Court convicted you.
    Source : https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/fines/fi…

    • Danstar on 21/08/2024 - 22:46
      +2

      Legal aid? I thought all Ozb’ers were rich!

    • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 04:15
      +1

      My understanding is that disobeying no stop sign is a parking offence, hence will not go on criminal record
      Extract from legal aid
      and traffic offences where you have taken a fine to court, and the Court convicted you.

      Your criminal record doesn’t include:

      parking offences
      dismissed criminal charges
      offences for which a court found you not guilty

    • 82norm on 22/08/2024 - 07:47
      +2

      @haspydude… how do u make this shit up? In New South Wales (NSW), minor traffic infringements, such as speeding or running a red light, are dealt with through fines and demerit points rather than criminal convictions. These types of offenses are considered administrative or regulatory breaches and do not result in a criminal record.

      However, more serious traffic offenses, such as drink driving, driving while disqualified, or dangerous driving, can lead to criminal charges. Convictions for these serious offenses will be recorded on your criminal record.

      In summary, minor traffic infringements typically do not result in a criminal conviction in NSW, but more serious offences can.

      Btw. I use to work in the NSW courts

      • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 08:48

        @82norm disobeying a no stopping sign is a minor parking offence, what I am struggling to find an answer to is, what will be the outcome if judge decides to find me guilty in court, will this go as a conviction in my criminal record or not.
        As in a fit of rage I decided to challege the ticket in court.

        • 82norm on 22/08/2024 - 10:40
          +2

          I think you’re over baking the situation, it’s a minor traffic offence. There will be no conviction. It won’t be a judge, but a local magistrate. You’ll get probably 15mins of air time to state your case, argument and a decision will be made. On any given day a magistrate will do dozens and dozens of cases, literally churn and burn. Just explain exactly what happened.

      • Munki on 22/08/2024 - 09:23
        +2

        As a cleaner?

      • happydude on 22/08/2024 - 10:26
        -1

        Making shit up?

        Your criminal record will also include criminal and traffic offences where you have taken a fine to court, and the Court convicted you.

        Source : https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/fines/fi…

    • randomusername2017 on 22/08/2024 - 09:35

      Court convicted you.

      What exactly is the conviction for a minor traffic offence?¿

    • Munki on 22/08/2024 - 09:24
      +14

      You forgot to tap back on. That was totally your fault though…

        • Munki on 22/08/2024 - 10:26
          +10

          Love the zero accountability approach. It's obviously the transit officer having a power trip and not them doing their job because you forgot to tap on.

          And holy crap "Raygun's brother"? God that's so cringe.

          • TheMindsetTraveller on 22/08/2024 - 18:26
            -5

            @Munki: The words he was using like "listen to me" "im telling you" ..

            Thats power tripping.

            As i said, a mistake happened. I genuinely thought i had tapped on, and why would i deliberately not tap on when i had already paid for the first leg. 2 weeks prior the 2nd leg was in fact $0.00. First time in 45years i have mever been given a ticket for transport like this and the dude treated me like im a criminal.

            • banana365 on 23/08/2024 - 13:21

              @TheMindsetTraveller: Those sound more like phrases that would be used if someone wasn't listening to someone else endeavouring to explain reality. An image of fingers in the ears and "la la la, not listening" petulance comes to mind for some reason.

    • Euphemistic on 22/08/2024 - 12:04
      +3

      Based on your opening lines, i reckon you got a good dose of karma. Sounds like you failed the attitude test to get a fine like that.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 22/08/2024 - 18:34
        -4

        Im a nice person, really. I also passed the attitude test but lapsing happens, we are all human, and some people can really go foxtrot oscar.

        • Euphemistic on 22/08/2024 - 19:02
          +1

          Yeah. Sure you are. Nice people don't hate.

    • KangaDrew on 22/08/2024 - 13:22
      +5

      So you hate ticket inspectors because you got caught out?

      It's not the job of an inspector to:
      1. have a deep and meaningful conversation about why someone didn't tap on, or
      2. review an individuals travel patterns with the aim of making a judgement call as to ones intentions

      But, sure… blame ticket inspectors for doing their job, because accountability for your mistake absolutely lies with the inspector smh

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 22/08/2024 - 18:27
        -5

        Yep i hate them, so what? If we thought the same we might as well be robots my friend.

  • djsweet on 21/08/2024 - 23:20
    +6

    Tbh your story doesn’t make any sense. If you legitimately stopped to avoid running over a pedestrian who was blocking the flow of traffic why would you plead guilty? If someone jumped out in front of you and you slammed the breaks to avoid turning them into a human pancake you wouldn’t have got a ticket.. and if you did the court will overturn it I’m sure.

    • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 06:11
      +1

      I would plead guilty so that I don't have to turn up to court once more on the day of hearing.
      If you plead not guilty, court assigns a date on which matter will be heard.
      I have made a stupid mistake of taking this to to court, rather than coughing $320.
      Don't want to make things any worse.

  • Randxyz123 on 22/08/2024 - 03:52
    +1

    Unless you have dash cam footage you are going to waste hours of your life in court. The courts tend to often favour councils unfortunately.

    I’d just pay it and move on, It sucks shit that this has happened.

    Maybe ask the council for photo proof? If the officer took a photo the pedestrian might be in the foreground still crossing.

    • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 04:13

      I requested for photograph, but they don't have one

      • Randxyz123 on 23/08/2024 - 19:53

        Can you post a link to where it happened? Did you see the parking officer?

    • Porker on 22/08/2024 - 07:00
      +1

      "The courts tend to often favour councils unfortunately."

      The courts uphold the law and typically defendents arguing 'it's the principle' has no legal standing. Councils will have a road rule breach or legislation item behind their case at the time of hearing.

      In short, it's probably more a case of lack of preparation by the party challenging the fine rather than playing favourites to Councils.

  • Fredfloresjr on 22/08/2024 - 06:01
    +3

    F the council rangers! They are useless and hopeless.

    • Dollar General on 22/08/2024 - 09:03
      +2

      What about Walker Texas Ranger?

      • playerzer2 on 23/08/2024 - 12:01

        Walker Texas Ranger if he worked for the council: Walker Toxic Ranga

  • kiitos on 22/08/2024 - 07:25
    +1

    Can you give more detail about what happened? Was there a marked pedestrian crossing? Did the pedestrian get out of or into your car? Did you pull over to the kerb while this was happening?

    • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 08:15
      -1

      I am not even sure what happened, can't even recall. Just received a ticket in my mail box 10 days after the alleged crime.
      I drop my missus to station, where the alleged crime was reported, every morning, and dropped her as usual even on the day.
      Only difference, that day i dropped her a little before the rush hour.

      • The GM on 22/08/2024 - 08:55
        +18

        So, you didn't "Stop for a pedestrian crossing the road", you stopped in a no-stopping zone to unload a passenger, and got caught. For example this stretch along the Kingsway in Miranda, where drivers use the morning peak hour traffic to drop their loved ones off at the station in front of the Westfields. They are no stopping zones for a reason. Plead guilty, hopefully learn the lesson and be a better driver, or get off the roads.

      • Shadowsfury on 22/08/2024 - 09:04
        +3

        Was the pedestrian you potentially stopped for actually your wife who you let cross in front of your vehicle?

        • Barhunter89 on 22/08/2024 - 09:13

          There was another car in front of me which stopped for a another pedestrian, not my wife

          • JimmyF on 22/08/2024 - 12:27

            @Barhunter89:

            There was another car in front of me which stopped for a another pedestrian, not my wife

            If you do this every day, how do you know you have been fined on the day you so called stopped for another car to let a pedestrian across the road and not just the day before this that you stopped to let wifey out?

      • Porker on 22/08/2024 - 09:25
        +8

        As per earlier response - you're not telling the full story. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/15627787/redir

        Now informing that you dropped your wife off puts a lot more context. Did you drop your wife off where you're legally allowed to stop? OR did you drop her off in a NO STOPPING or similar area?

        Doing something illegal for a number of years or times in the past is not justification for getting out of a ticket/fine once you are caught. Eg. "I've been doing this for 10 years", means you got away with it for 10 years - the lack of enforcement doesn't mean it's permitted.

      • randomusername2017 on 22/08/2024 - 09:41
        +5

        I drop my missus to station

        Does she exit a moving vehicle or do you disobey a no stopping sign ?¿

      • JimmyF on 22/08/2024 - 10:59
        +7

        I drop my missus to station, where the alleged crime was reported, every morning, and dropped her as usual even on the day.

        LOL Dude so you stopped in a no stopping zone to let a pax out of your car. The fine totally sticks. Just pay it. Stop wasting the courts time.

        Just because you do it every day, doesn't mean it is right.

      • trapper on 22/08/2024 - 11:14
        +4

        I drop my missus to station, where the alleged crime was reported, every morning, and dropped her as usual even on the day.

        Wait what?? So you stopped in a no stopping area to let your wife out… bro you are guilty.

      • Hangryuman on 23/08/2024 - 15:32

        'I am not even sure what happened, can't even recall. Just received a ticket in my mail box 10 days after the alleged crime. I drop my missus to station, where the alleged crime was reported, every morning, and dropped her as usual even on the day. Only difference, that day i dropped her a little before the rush hour.'

        so OP can't remember what happened but decides to fight it in court.

        Sounds like he regularly dropped his wife off at a No Stopping zone at the station, and never thought about it until he got a ticket.

        This reminds me of the woman that nearly killed me by doing a u-turn across/blocking my entire lane on the blind crest of a hill in an 80kph zone - my motorbike and I hit the side of the Oldhen station wagon (that image permanently imprinted in my brain), my girlfriend on pillion hit me helping wedge fracture my spine and push all my teeth back, before somersaulting over the car and landing on her back she said many metres down the road, I woke up in hospital with 3 limbs in traction, and the woman car driver said she'd been doing this to drop her husband off at the bus stop every day for the last 18 months, and didn't know it was illegal - until she nearly killed two of us.

        So yeah - have fun in court !

        • Euphemistic on 23/08/2024 - 15:57

          I am not even sure what happened, can't even recall. Just received a ticket in my mail box 10 days after

          Thats why im not a fan of fines in the mail. It loses the immediate deterrent effect of a policeman standing beside your car while you know exactlyl what you were doing. If you dont know exactly what you were doing - like if you do almost the same thing every day, it can be frustrating to remember exactly why you broke the law

  • SpicyStew on 22/08/2024 - 08:58
    +1

    its a minor traffic offence nobody got hurt
    in other words, a waste of courts time.

    instead of wasting time at court
    use the time to make your money back.

    imagine this coming from a 35yo

  • stuffandthat on 22/08/2024 - 09:27
    +2

    Never plead guilty. Never admit guilt.

  • JimmyF on 22/08/2024 - 09:27
    -1

    as I stopped for pedestrian who was crossing the road.

    Got a google map view of the street?

    Did you pull over to the side of the road to 'stop' or stay in the lane?

  • trapper on 22/08/2024 - 11:04

    What is the point in going to court just to plead guilty? You will then pay the fine plus court costs.

    So either pay fine and forget about this, or go to court and make your case - that you are not guilty.

    You were forced to stop because the road was obstructed by a pedestrian. Seems like a reasonable argument, if you can demonstrate this.

    Also: This is a traffic infringement, not a crime. So you won't get any criminal record.

    • JimmyF on 22/08/2024 - 12:26

      You were forced to stop because the road was obstructed by a pedestrian. Seems like a reasonable argument, if you can demonstrate this.

      But they didn't stop because the road was obstructed by a pedestrian, they stopped because a car in front of them stopped to let a pedestrian cross the road, at a guess, as the pedestrian crossing. (see comments above by OP)

      But while they had been stopped, the OP wife jumped out as well and the OP has been doing this for 10 years without a fine.

      So the quesstion is, if the OP does this daily, how do they know they got fined on the day they stopped for cough cough 'pedestrian' vs every other day they stop to let wifey out.

      What is the point in going to court just to plead guilty?

      There is no point other than everyone thinks they are not at fault when they do things wrong.

    • brad1-8tsi on 22/08/2024 - 12:37
      -1

      @trapper That isn't how it works. If the OP stopped in a No Sopping then they have to plead guilty because it actually happened & then they plead the extenuating circumstances and then the Magistrate drops the fine if they agree it wasn't warranted.

      • trapper on 22/08/2024 - 14:53

        If the OP stopped in a No Sopping then they have to plead guilty because it actually happened

        If there is a valid defense, then they are not guilty and should not plead guilty.

        For example, see: https://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/con…

        REG 165 Stopping in an emergency etc or to comply with another rule
        It is a defence to the prosecution of a driver for an offence against a provision of this Part if—
        (a) the driver stops at a particular place, or in a particular way, to avoid a collision, and the driver stops for no longer than is necessary to avoid the collision, or
        …
        (e) the driver stops at a particular place, or in a particular way, to comply with another provision of these Rules or a provision of another law, and the driver stops for no longer than is necessary to comply with the other provision.

        If this applies to the OP, then that would constitute a valid defense. In that case, they are not guilty.

  • will05 on 22/08/2024 - 11:41

    OP is going to visit court of his own expense. we wish you also get some "first time discount " in the court.

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