Often I would include a tip of 5% to the order total to help out the drivers in the age of rising cost of living, however, when I see on the Uber Eats app that my house is the next stop, but the driver goes away from the house to somewhere else first (indicating multi apping), I would withdraw the tip.
Am I justified in doing this?
No. OP needs to decide for themselves.
Its not for us to tell OP what to do when it comes to uber deliveries.
My view is that the price you pay is already fully loaded with extra costs, with plenty in it for the delivery person, so why pay more?
Maybe on a cold rainy night.
My view is that the price you pay is already fully loaded with extra costs, with plenty in it for the delivery person, so why pay more?
Bikies.
After paying for gas money and other expenses these guys are working for peanut money well below Minimum wage… Don’t know why anyone would do it
@R4: R4, I appreciate your comment, but it's clear you don't understand the complexities behind these situations. During the COVID pandemic, I was supposed to return home after finishing my studies. However, due to lockdowns and the absence of flights, I had no choice but to apply for a Post-Study Work Visa to avoid violating the terms of my Student Visa. While waiting for the lockdowns to lift, I secured a role in my field at a company where I had previously interned. They needed professionals with my expertise, and I have been with them ever since. My career took off here in Australia, and my visa allowed me to continue contributing to my field. It's easy to make assumptions, but you don't know everyone's story. Please keep your uninformed opinions to yourself and refrain from making public comments like the one you just did.
@dext007: My comments are not uninformed and, no, I won't refrain from making public comments.
All international students should return home on completion of their studies - staying on should not be an option. We need international students but there are far too many here ATM. They are having a real negative affect on our housing market and society.
@R4: Your "should" is based on your own uninformed opinion. Not based on any facts.
We got a glimpse of what happens when our pathetically undiversified economy lost a big chunk of international students during COVID - from retail to hospitality there were shortages of labour everywhere. In every state. Businesses were begging the government to attract more students back. The part-time work done by these internationals can't be filled by locals and that's been proven time and again.
While any group of people has bad apples, internationals are far more hard working than locals. That ethic is what brings out the racism in people like you. And the ones who stay permanently, are far more skilled than the average Aussie, and are chosen to stay because they fill skill shortages.
If you are worried about a "negative impact on our housing market and society" - let's start deporting all the Aussies who've been on Centrelink for multiple generations. Or the ones screaming and drunk in public in the middle of the day. If you lined that crowd up, you'll find they don't look very 'international' though.
If you've got a problem with the system - take it out on the politicians, you elected. Not the people who are following the system in place.
@R4: International students affect the housing market in Australia primarily through their demand for rental properties. They are generally not buying properties due to their financial constraints and reliance on student loans. Many international students struggle to afford high rents near universities, which can exceed the costs advertised in marketing brochures. This financial strain often forces them to seek more affordable accommodation options further from campus. So how is it affecting your housing market? You can't afford properties because you don't know how to earn, so blaming anything like this on students who don't have borrowing capacity like you, won't help you in anyway. As I said think before posting comments like these?
@dext007: They do have a major impact on the rental market - and many of the properties that they rent are also the kind of properties that young people and those on lower incomes want to rent. There's the impact on our society.
I have property and have no problem affording it, that doesn't mean I can't be concerned.
There's too many international students in Australia - and it's a scam.
@R4: I was an international student a few years back. I am now in my mid-20s, working for a large corporation that manages over 20 campuses onshore, offering major bachelor's and master's degrees. Our team of over 50 IT professionals supports more than 1,000 staff members. Each year, around 25,000 students graduate or complete a year of study with us, paying at least $27,000 per year, which helps keep everyone employed and paying taxes in advance. International students make up more than 70% of our student body.
Given this, you can calculate the revenue generated by international students in terms of taxes and other contributions. Additionally, on average, every international student brings approximately $5,000, converted from their domestic currency, when they come onshore. Can you please explain the scam in this situation in this scenario? If you are laundering the money for these students who are on shore, this could be a scam otherwise they are proving a fair bit of chunk for supporting locals.
And for your brain, here is another calculation-
My fees for bachelor's at a known Institute in Melbourne in 2018-2020 was $105000 after scholarship paid in Yearly installments.
Support from family provided every month for 3 years period of time- $2400 average for 3 years.
Paid my monthly PTV usage as student- around $100 a month not used during Covid lockdowns.
So, in total currency brought converted to AUD- $191400.
And I use to live in 10KMs of my campus, paid on an average 750 a month as rent for 3 years roughly.
After doing the calculation, can you please explain the scam that happened with you, after my parents paid roughly $200k in AUD for three years of my education?
@sauce2k: Indeed but not hate, more like anger. The international student industry is a scam and does little for our economy and society.
@R4: I recommend using anger management apps available online. These apps can help you channel your anger in a positive way, rather than expressing your frustrations through public forums. This approach can be more constructive and beneficial for both you and the community.
@R4: All good, just trying to convince your old soul, that it might need some help! And I am waiting for your reply to the upper comment, reply soon ;) .
@R4: Your average Australian 'anti-racist' has been programmed by the media and general culture to defend to the death any vector that harms Anglo Australians (without even realising it). Appreciate you bringing some truth to the issue despite the fact the audience is too brainwashed to reason their way through.
Macrobusiness gives a good professional level rundown on the issues you raise, in agreement with you.
@dext007: their dim-witted, wilful ignorance comes from a loss somewhere in life. chances are a teenage international student 'stole' their job by being better at it. no amount of facts or reason will take away the resentment, lol.
@bigbadaboom: Probably, you are right. They were not taught in a correct way, I guess. I was here for better education, which I got but I still think people like him @R4 need something more to prove to themselves that they are superior because they are born in Australia? But given the comments he has posted hope his future generation gets better otherwise it is waste of resources by the government of Australia on him! No hate for him but for his ideology!
@bigbadaboom: Nations are supposed to support the development of their own citizens, not others, and nor were they established to 'replace' their own people in positions should they be 'better at it'.
A herd of lions would not have their biological future enhanced by importing Tigers to their territory.
@lukeghulm: That's correct for a nation that can manage to stay afloat with their own economic activity. Australia needs migrants in most sectors, and has even evaded recessions thanks to that.
We can't even maintain the population without migration. Let alone the economy.
@R4: does little for our economy ….how about you read some paper and get yourself updated with the numbers?
@Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The same person prob did nothing at work then claims his job was “stolen” by migrants while doing
@sauce2k: Mass supply of new labour -> downward pressure on wages. Mass demand for new housing -> massive upward pressure on prices.
It is not rocket science to work out how dramatically international students and mass migration generally affects Australian wellbeing.
Note the 'per person' combined infrastructure and healthcare (lifetime) bill for every new migrant is over $300k in present dollars. The dollars they bring in and earn rarely cover their lifetime negative impact for these reasons. Note how we've been brining in ever increasing numbers of migrants and never shrunk so called 'demand' for migration? It is because the infrastructure load is immense and requires bodies to fill the positions.
Ever read the Lady that Swallowed the Spider? No point anyway I guess, because some will never let themselves understand an inconvenient truth. It goes against their religion of reflexive immigration defence.
@lukeghulm: "combined infrastructure and healthcare (lifetime) bill for every new migrant is over $300k in present dollars" - and what's the per head contribution IN to the GDP? Lifetime taxes paid? All the assets and net worth they bring with them? Subsidising the university system for locals?
Australia is among the top 5 countries millionaires migrate to now, so we stop them too?
That's a pretty misleading way to paint half of the country's population. As if they are just a cost.
and what's the per head contribution IN to the GDP? Lifetime taxes paid? All the assets and net worth they bring with them? Subsidising the university system for locals?
Their contribution to the working class taxpayer is generally less than their cost, as evidenced by the simple supply and demand of employment, housing, etc. The only people that benefit from their contributions, i.e. benefit from more cheap labor and demand on limited goods, are the wealthy/owner class.
@ssfps: "generally less than their cost, as evidenced by the simple supply and demand of employment, housing, etc" - wow really had to stretch for that one, lol. nearly reinvented basic economics there!
@ssfps: Exactly. Currently, migration is increasing our total GDP but our per capita GDP is decreasing - we're all getting poorer essentially. Many economic indicators are decreasing - HDI, disposable income etc. Immigration is not only to blame for this but it's having an impact. If Australia was importing highly-skilled migrants only those figures would nit be dropping, but we're not.
@bigbadaboom: If you truly believe someone, from anywhere, is going to produce more wealth for the general population than they take, why would you want to deprive their country of origin from the benefit of that extra wealth? Are you in favour of classism at an international level?
@ssfps: you seem to be genuinely confused between letting illegal asylum seekers in VS legal migrants who are literally invited to be here: skilled, marriage, work sponsorship, etc. They aren't plucked out of just anywhere.. Skilled migration is the bulk of the numbers coming in..
@lukeghulm: Well said. The major factors at play are so obvious, but we're a brainwashed people.
Pro-immigration arguments usually fall back on the 'racism' card, even though immigration negatives are the same for pommies as indians.
The real evil of pro-immigration folks is that they use arguments about humanitarianism, i.e. those people should be allowed in to make a better life - then why is the government limiting it at all? Why would they not be arguing to immigrate the entire population of India and South Africa to australia this year? They believe that is a solution for human suffering and equality, yet they want to withhold that solution to only a select ~500k people per year the aus government deems worth "saving" - that are typically already middle class or wealthier in their home country? Abhorrent.
@lukeghulm: @lukeghulm hey mate not about to go in deep with this discussion. I responded to him because his hate on international students and migrants. Go back to his previous comments on a different post
@sauce2k: @lukeghulm seems to have some serious misconceptions. Every international student entering the country through standard immigration processes is required to prepay for their healthcare coverage through private providers such as Bupa, Medibank, NIB, among others. These healthcare plans are specifically designed to cover the majority of routine medical expenses for students, with an annual cost averaging around $1500. Given this prepayment for services, it's perplexing how the government's resources are purportedly being strained by these students' medical needs. Moreover, the same principle applies to temporary residents who transition to full-time or part-time work post-graduation; they continue to make monthly payments for their healthcare coverage. So, how exactly does this translate into an additional burden on government healthcare services?
@dext007: some people just don't get it and there's nothing you can do to change their mind. The usual suspects - boomers/old folks.
@sauce2k: I think people like @R4 are the real issue. They are holding onto their properties, preventing new local investors or international graduates like me from buying them outright. Unlike him, who relied on loans from the big banks to build his single property, I can afford to buy without a mortgage. He blames internationals for the rate increases, but in reality, it’s people like him—without the skills to match more deserving international graduates—who are the problem. People like him, who rely on Centrelink for help, are the ones crying during these rate increases but R4 being an @$$ has nothing to say as seen in the comments above!
@dext007: Racism fuelled by wilful ignorance is what it is. As stupid as these peeps sound, they will knowingly refuse to absorb anything but their own fact-free narrative. It's not accidentally missing most of the picture.
@bigbadaboom: You live in a village that grows enough food for 10 families and has the ability to maintain 10 houses.
The village leader says lets bring in a few more people to help out, life will be easier for us all.
So now you have 15 families but only 14 houses were built, and only 40% more food, so everyone is a bit hungrier.
So the village leader says the problem is the village needs more people to farm and to build houses.
So 10 more families join the village, however only 3 more houses were built and food production only increased another 40%. So now you have 25 families sharing 13 houses - the houses being remodeled into tiny duplex flats. The less fortunate half the village are often very hungry, with the social consequences that disadvantage and inequality bring.
Of course, the answer, we're told, is we need to increase the number of people in the village.
There are of course many other factors in a very complex system, but at the core is a supply and demand of property, goods, cash, and services. We've consistently massively increased demand without regard for whether the supply can actually meet it, which for whatever reasons (whether regulatory, the weather, or the laws of physics, etc) aren't being met.
Immigration and money printing are seemingly the two largest factors in our (working class peoples) declining economic prospects decade over decade over decade.
Also, for those that argue that being born in a certain place doesn't confer any birthright to that place, i'm curious if you also believe being born to parents doesn't confer any birthright to their inheritance?
@ssfps: You're still stuck on a bias that migrants create a net drain on resources. That's not how this economy was built and there's no data to back that.
"5 more families and only 40% more food" example of yours - maybe replace those numbers with actuals.
https://population.gov.au/publications/research/oecd-finding…
And blaming the government's inability to add to housing supply on migrants is just convenient scapegoating.
And blaming the government's inability to add to housing supply on migrants is just convenient scapegoating.
So you admit we don't have enough houses for the current population, and yet you believe adding ~500k more people per year is perfectly fine, even if the housing needs of current residents aren't met. You'll blame any abstract reason, except the fact we're adding more people than we are adding houses.
So, as I asked earlier, why stop at ~500k per year? Why not import 5 million people a year? If migration is a net positive, why don't we fully open our borders to absolutely anybody globally?
You're still stuck on a bias
I'm not "stuck on" a bias, i'm repeating a major root cause of the issue, rather than talk fluff about how we can better offset the problems caused by that root cause. Why don't we delay the mass immigration policy until after the houses are built to cater for the existing population? Is that too racist for you?
government's inability to add to housing supply
We're still building a lot of houses, just not enough to match the increased migration rate.
Also, your OECD findings are garbage.
Have you actually read these studies? They are pretty crappy. Lets take a look:
The literature has identified three main channels through which an increase in the number of migrants might foster regional productivity. Firstly, to avoid competing with migrants, natives may choose to specialise in communication-intensive occupations requiring high proficiency in the local language. In contrast, migrants may specialise in more manual-intensive tasks that require lower language proficiency (Peri and Sparber, 2009[11]). This division of labour can be mutually beneficial as it allows both groups to complement each others’ skills, boosting overall productivity and resulting in higher wages and employment (Bosetti, Cattaneo and Verdolini, 2015[6]; Peri, 2012[12]; Mitaritonna, Orefice and Peri, 2017[13]; Docquier et al., 2020[14]). Secondly, migration and the cultural diversity among migrants can increase productivity by diversifying knowledge through the introduction of new ideas and know-how from their home countries (Alesina, Harnoss and Rapoport, 2016[8]; Bahar et al., 2022[15]). Furthermore, migrants may stimulate entrepreneurship (Kerr and Kerr, 2017[16]) and increase product varieties (Bahar and Rapoport, 2018[17]), innovation (Fassio, Montobbio and Venturini, 2019[18]), and trade (Felbermayr and Toubal, 2012[19]). Finally, more migrants might increase population density, resulting in positive agglomeration effects on regional productivity (Combes, Démurger and Li, 2015[20]).
Wow, so eye opening. So the fact they can't speak english properly and cause us to live in higher density shitholes is actually a positive for us, because GDP as a measure captures the benefit to our population!!1
Despite their shitty biases, they throw us a bone pointing out a couple of down sides:
In contrast, migration can also have an adverse effect on productivity. Two channels stand out. Firstly, the arrival of predominantly lower-skilled migrants may increase the available labour supply, resulting in downward pressure on the wages of lower-skilled labour. Thus, lower wage costs might reduce firms’ incentives to invest in labour-saving technical change or prompt them to prioritise industries that rely on low- or unskilled workers that have lower productivity levels (Ortega and Peri, 2011[21]). Secondly, migration can increase ethnic and cultural diversity in society and firms, yielding an increase in communication costs (Parrotta, Pozzoli and Pytlikova, 2014[22]) and cultural tensions (Hjort, 2014[23]).
So, more migrants causes downward pressure on wages. They only point this out for low skill, but they don't say WHY they're ignoring the downward pressure on high skill profession's wages.
Another common theme of their paper:
Despite growing literature examining the empirical relationship between migration and productivity at the national level, evidence at the subnational level remains limited.
In my skim read, ive counted multiple similar statements where they point out the literature is inconclusive about the benefits.
On average, a region with a 10 per cent larger migrant share (e.g., 33 per cent instead of 30 per cent) has a 1.3 per cent larger regional wage difference, which indicates a positive link between migration and labour productivity.
I didn't see where they control for migrant settlement patterns to existing wealth disparity. In fact, all the points they make seem to be that the regional wage difference may only be for those migrants or those benefiting from their labour directly, such as their employers.
help out the drivers in the age of rising cost of living
but the driver goes away from the house to somewhere else first
They're doing that specifically because of the cost of living issues that are going on and the low payments they get from uber, you realise that right?
I try not to use delivery services as much as possible. we maybe do it once every 2 months because everyone loses except for Uber and it's not that difficult to go and get your own food in most circumstances.
They're doing that specifically because of the cost of living issues that are going on and the low payments they get from uber, you realise that right?
You realise they don't have to do this job if it doesn't pay enough with gaming the system?
If Ubercrap isn't getting enough drivers due to bad pay, then they up the rates.
You realise they don't have to do this job
Spoken like someone who's never had to make hard decisions in life.
No-one who is working for uber wants to do it. They do it because they have to do. A lot of it is also deferral of payment for things like taxes, wear and tear on your vehicle etc to get food on your own table now.
I know a number doing it for a bit of fun even though they have a full time professional job.
@kyle: you don't honestly believe they're doing it as a fun hobby though, right? They're just trying to put a positive spin on a situation they're in.
Spoken like someone who's never had to make hard decisions in life.
That has nothing to do with tipping culture in Australia. That is really a question of why isn't Uber paying enough to live on in the first place?
No-one who is working for uber wants to do it. They do it because they have to do.
News flash, No one rarely works any job because they WANT to, they work because they HAVE bills to pay.
A lot of it is also deferral of payment for things like taxes, wear and tear on your vehicle etc to get food on your own table now.
Yes that is the Uber model and its utter crap, but as long as customers top up peoples wages via tips, they'll have drivers. Uber is the only one 'winning' out of this transaction, with their 30% cut of the food + delivery + service chargers, all while paying drivers peanuts. Then applying guilt to customers like you into tipping the drivers because THEY pay them like crap, so you should feel sorry for them. WTF?
What sort of world are you wanting that companies get to collect the profits and then guilt the customer into paying their driver via tips? That's some crazy messed up crap if you think its totally ok for Uber not to pay the drivers correctly in the first place.
Whats next? Lets stop paying waiters in Australia a real wage and tell customers to tip them instead?
If you want to know how crazy tipping culture can get? Just look over to the USA. Even they are having some serious questions about it, as every person now wants a 20% minimum tip for doing their job. People are demanding a 30% tip on a $80 meal, so drop $24 tip to the waiter just for bringing you your food? LOL yeah no and oh, screw the cook who cooked it.
So yeah sometimes people need to make some hard decisions in life and if your job isn't paying you enough, its time to look for another one.
So yes, tipping culture should die, it should never be a thing here. Companies should be paying staff rates they can live on and not expect them to beg for tips.
Let market forces do its job, so if businesses are not paying enough they won't have staff.
We saw this recently with all the ongoing wait staff shortages, Was it a shortage of staff or was it companies not willing to pay enough money? From what I see it was the later, as lots of wait staff during COVID after being stood down found better paying jobs. So don't want to come back and cafes don't want to pay real wages.
No-one who is working for uber wants to do it
I'm still surprised that someone who makes claims like "never had to make hard decisions in life" would support Ubers business model of under paying its workers and expecting its customers to make up their pay instead in the way of a 'tip'.
@JimmyF: Don't forget to use your clever nickname "Ubercrap" for it, no point having good ideas if you aren't going to share them
The international students doing it to fund their studies want to do it. If they didn't, they would have just stopped doing it and head back home.
I was an international student also by the way, we did what we needed to do by choice and agency.
You'd be surprised at the number of Visa holders who obtain an ABN and don't have to declare hours worked while working with Uber/Uber Eats.
Student visas, for example, have working hours limits, however they don't have to declare those while working under an ABN, so skirt the laws.
And given the number of visas we seem to be allowing these days…
Yeah well done champ, great argument there 😂
You'd be surprised at the number of Visa holders
Oh I'm not, Uber knows it's a loophole for these students, so pay crap as they have little choice otherwise and will work the job as the hours don't count.
Student visas, for example, have working hours limits, however they don't have to declare those while working under an ABN, so skirt the laws.
Bit like all the students and backpackers that used to work in cafes for cash under the table. Now the cash has disappeared, so have the workers as cafe owners don't want to pay real wages.
Nobody is forced to do uber eats. If they're not happy with the job, they should get another gig.
Am I justified in doing this?
100% YES.
This is Australia….. No tipping, don't start that crap, just don't do it!!!
Its bad enough with Ubercrap adding service charges on top of the delivery fee etc then asking for a TIP!! Then multi stacking my delivery so its now 2nd and cold.
Then you have the crap of drivers using multi accounts or multi apps, so grabbing heaps of deliveries at once so its even colder.
Lol leaves a tip to help with cost of living but withdraws it if driver is trying to maximize their earnings.
Mustn’t be a fan of cold food for some weird reason
if your going to tip do it in cash, otherwise it gets taxed
But how else can he expense the tip as a business expense?
i need to know what business buys uber eats in the course of business
Food expenses for company for overtime workers.
The regular payment he gets you still do tax claims.
Yes, it's quite clear that drivers are gaming the system.
I would only ever tip for exceptional service which is never with any food delivery service.
I stopped using delivery because of its lack of reliability - almost every order over the past year or so is way beyond the expected timeframe and often cold. It's not great for these services longer term.
No, never.
It is not your job to subsidise the failings of the Capitalist class.
Tipping, dont even think about starting tipping culture in Australia
Don't tip at all, it is a horrible culture that tipping is expected just for doing your job.
I always tip the driver on takeaway orders, no exceptions.
I also always go and get my own takeaway orders, so its kind of a win win.
So you tip yourself ?
So you tip yourself ?
you don't?
;)
I don’t actually , need to start doing that :)
Please don't bring your self-tipping culture here.
Can’t you just pay for priority delivery instead of tipping?
Drivers still multi app even if I've got priority
most times when I select priority they just delivery mine alone
Yeah but I've had the driver going on the opposite direction even though i was supposed to be the first delivery which suggests they're delivering for another app
@kyle: yeh that sucks but regardless I wouldn't tip not matter how good the service was
I have heard that delivery drivers are doing well too
You should consider tipping for exceptional service, not as a matter of course because you don't think they are paid enough.
Uber gets the stats and when they talk about average driver earnings would include tips in the figures. It just perpetuates Ubers low payments.
Ive personally never used a delivery service for food.
Im surprised any ozbargain user would.
They must have money to burn.
Definition of tipping for exceptional service delivering food?
They delivered it?
It would take me 30 mins to drive there and back. Our usual order is an extra $8 compared to buying in-store, free Uber One so no delivery fee.
I value my free time more than $16/hour, so it's a good deal.
NTA customer is always right
So you want to be charitable but only if the driver plays by your rules?
Or play by Uber's rules
so you are for tipping drivers cause of inflation but you are also for anti-competitive/monopoly rules that contribute to said inflation. Sounds like you just like wielding power over people that service you not actually help them.
Sounds like you just like wielding power over people that service you not actually help them.
If you want to play by the 'tipping' rules, then tipping is for good service.
So no tip is valid if your food is delayed and cold because the driver is running 3 food delivery apps at once and has 4 deliveries before the OPs.
@JimmyF: If that was the reason for tipping, then the tipping step would come after the food is received.
If that was the reason for tipping, then the tipping step would come after the food is received.
That is 100% what gratuity aka tipping was all about, it was a 'tip' left for the server after the meal service as part of paying the bill.
Nowadays, people want the tip up front to do the 'work' or expect a certain amount even if they didn't do a good job. So it's no longer a 'tip' for good service if it is just expected. In the USA drivers won't even pick up your order unless you pre tip it is that bad. So customers are paying for the food, delivery fee, service fee and then having to leave a 'tip' in hope to get their food picked up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity
Either way, tipping needs to die in Australia. Pay people correctly, its not my job as the customer to pay your staff indirectly in the way of a tip to do a job for your company which makes them money. That is the companies job, not mine. So if that means increased delivery fees, fair enough!
Why would you ever tip? Tipping culture is awful, don't encourage it. (profanity) the companies that try and do this in Australia, and (profanity) them overseas they're just used to pay staff less. You're not making any normal person's life better by tipping.
Tipping culture is awful
Even the Americans are hating it these days.
worse people to tip at NCY taxi drivers they don't anything exceptionally well and they expect it because of the norm
People give tips for slow shit service, cold food, 1/2 ya food and drinks missing? we have gone down hill….
So your house is next, but your lazy aZZ can't go and pick it yourself? Shame on you, shame…
The best thing you could do is avoid using food delivery services. Do you know how much margin the food business pays to Uber? Or are you a satisfied repeat customer of an American multinational with US$37 billion revenue that's bankrupting the food service sector?
Do you know how much margin the food business pays to Uber?
Yep, 30% and that is why all the prices are jacked up on the platform.
Get far better value picking up the food yourself, and its hot and hasn't been nibbled on during transit (well not by a stranger at least!).
We prefer to pick up our own take away as well. Give the restaurant all the money.
You need a poll