This was posted 6 months 16 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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30% off First Year Self-Managed Super Fund Annual Fee: from $693 (RRP $990) @ Stake

200
30% off First Year Self-Managed Super Fund Annual Fee: from $693 (RRP $990) @ Stake
Go to Deal
FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 09:39 hellostake.com (351 clicks)
Last edited 22/06/2024 - 21:05 by 1 other user
EOFY30

I have been researching options for combining my wife's super and mine and this popped up in the mail. There are 3 options based on what you want to invest in and the price in title is the cheapest option.

The first-year annual fee also includes set-up with a corporate trustee, the only other cheaper option was Just Superfund which comes with no annual but a corporate trustee for $600 + $49 for ESA.

As far as I understand, you have to keep the money in their "wallet" instead of a bank account, e.g. Maquire CMA like a normal SMSF, so I am uncomfortable with this.

Of course, this deal is not for everyone so please do your due diligence.

Edit: Thanks to @DollarD, the code EOFY30 gives a 30% discount, so I have updated the description.

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Referral: random (1025)

Referrer gets $1 off brokerage for 12 months for each referral. Referees gets $10 bonus (funding account within 24 hours of sign-up required).

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closed Comments

  • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 09:44
    +1

    Damn that's pretty good, they have two other more expensive options, one adds property (leveraged or not) and the other adds property + managed funds/precious metals and other shit.

    I've been thinking about getting a SMSF purely for leveraged property but seemed such a hassle. The addition of stakes crazy cheap brokerage is very tempting also.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 09:48
      +1

      Yeah, especially if you want to set up a bare trust for LRBA, it's $1200 with a corporate trustee which I think is the cheapest in the market. Just Superfund costs $1760.

  • Hasbulla on 06/06/2024 - 09:51
    +3

    Please do read the fine prints of their exchange fees.

  • xyron on 06/06/2024 - 09:51
    +5

    There's a lot of ongoing costs and responsibilities that come with managing an SMSF. Wouldn't be something I'd be racing to the bottom of the market for.

    • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 10:42

      Absolutely!!!

    • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 11:12

      I've only had a cursory look at this product but isn't that the advantage of this, they do all the accounting/regulatory side?

  • 76F on 06/06/2024 - 10:08
    +3

    Stake Super can lodge a Macquarie CMA application for you if you email them. The account will just be in addition to the Stake wallet and not a replacement so you'll have to transfer between the accounts.

    • orido on 06/06/2024 - 10:41

      Yes I have a Stake SMSF and a Macquarie CMA. First time transfer takes 24 hrs like most banks, but after that its pretty instantaneous.

      I even get emails from Stake whenever some PAYG tax or something is due, to remind me to transfer from Macquarie CMA to their Stake Wallet.

    • mandelbrot on 06/06/2024 - 11:19

      What's the benefit of having a Macquarie CMA over stake wallet?

      • CacheHunter on 06/06/2024 - 11:27
        +2

        Paid interest. Otherwise money in your stake wallet gets invested/managed by stake, with stake keeping any earnings. However, as others have said, just ask and they'll setup the Macquarie account.
        My fortnightly employer super gets paid into my stake wallet, but I either invest it so that I'm protected by CHESS or move it to Macquarie within 24 hours.
        In practice, apart from a trivial forgone interest amount, the Stake product is almost as easy as Shares Direct industry fund options, but more flexible.

        • mandelbrot on 06/06/2024 - 13:02

          Ah ok. I googled the CMA rate and it says 2.75%. is this right?
          If I'm holding cash, I would normally buy AAA ETF.

          • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 14:35
            +1

            @mandelbrot: Standard Macquarie CMA is 2.75%, but CMA Accelerator is 4.65%.
            I just keep the standard topped up to cover repayments.

  • OrderedChaos on 06/06/2024 - 10:10

    @FrugalDealSeeker thanks for sharing. I've been looking at STAKE, and concur. The bank arrangement as well a higher than typical exchange rate costs have me baulking at using them. Would appreciate it if you could share who you're leaning to.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 10:34
      +2

      Earlier at full price I was considering setting up with just superfund @ $649 and then switching to Stake in a year but I now I think I’m leaning towards using Stake in the first place and just sticking there to have everything in one place.

    • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 11:13

      Can't you just use whoever you like to exchange if you don't like STAKE's rates?

    • orido on 06/06/2024 - 13:25

      Serious question, Stake has forex rates of 70bps. Yep, I understand a bit higher than others, but given everything else, ease of use, other low fees etc, which would you recommend using? I mean, SMSF/Super is a long term play, so if I'm buying US stocks, its a buy and hold, and an extra 20-30 bps of fees is negligible to me

      What forex fees are you paying elsewhere? I have a business as well and im paying around 30bps there with a pretty hard negotiated rate.

  • Shadowsfury on 06/06/2024 - 10:25
    +1

    Been with them since the beginning - happy to answer questions - if too specific perhaps via PM instead

    I have the no frills kind of one as I just wanted my own DIY portfolio of mostly ETFs (mix of Aussie and US ones) and a couple of individual holdings

    Do indeed be aware of the forex fees for US markets as someone else mentioned (definitely expensive but not as bad as some others that charge forex fees on every purchase and sale)

    Rest of it has been pretty smooth sailing IMO

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 10:35
      +1

      Just wondering if you were unhappy with the brokerage fees, can you use someone else e.g. IG.

      • countmein on 06/06/2024 - 11:28
        +1

        Im very happy with AU brokerage fees, even compared with CMC.

        Not so much in love with exchange fees for US account so I went to IBKR which is cheap however the registration was a bit pain

      • Shadowsfury on 06/06/2024 - 16:12

        The brokerage is cheap enough for the ASX especially for CHESS sponsored - already one of the cheapest in the market apart from perhaps CMC (only cheaper for the small daily purchases), or IBKR/Superhero (not CHESS)

        You cannot pick another brokerage - part of where they'll make a little more from you

        Yes as others said its more the exchange fee to USD that is the issue - at circa 1% on the way in (can do what you like for as long as you like in USD once its there) and 1% when converting back to AUD.

  • bhunter101 on 06/06/2024 - 10:35

    How soon can we get our money in this?
    I have Stake black.
    Can we have both of our supers here? Me and wife?
    Can we invest in any stock? ASX and WallST?
    What fees do we compare from say for example my ANZ super. It has monthly service fees of $23 and contribution tax average around $130? Both monthly.

    • orido on 06/06/2024 - 10:45
      +2

      The good thing about SMSF is you can combine you and your wife's super (what I have done) and save on fees. So you only pay one set of fixed fees for your accounts.
      You can pretty much invest in any ASX/Wall st stocks too with minimal fees

      Its not a like for like comparison between ANZ Super and this as Stake's product is a SMSF and you manage it yourself. You can put it in a index ETF for very minimal fees. For example, the Vanguard ASX ETF Tracker feees are only 0.07%. Usually ANZ Super and other Superfunds are charg
      ing 1.5-2% on your money. And even if they lose money, you still pay them!

      Regarding contribution tax, that depends on you and your wife's salary. Super contributions are taxed at 15% and you'll pay this no matter where you go. This is a government/ATO thing, nothing to do with Superfunds or SMSFs.

  • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 10:42
    +5

    Just a heads up for my OzB community, be very careful when playing around with an SMSF, it's not something you want to cheap out on.
    Maybe OK if you're just putting a few extra dollars away, but it is a very strictly regulated scheme that has some potential enormous penalties if you get it wrong.

    We've had ours for about 8 years now and have some properties, CFS managed funds, and a CMA. And over that time I have seen several so called 'SMSF experts' also get it wrong.
    One example is offsets and redraws on an LRBA, (which we have set up, but will not touch). It simply contravenes the SIS Act in most cases if you use it. Yet, plenty of lenders, brokers, and experts will tell you it's OK.
    Firstly, you can not use a redraw facility regardless (you can easily look this up).
    And to use an offset account against an LRBA is an incredibly grey area. The only way to do this is if it's through authorised deposit-taking institutions, e.g. banks, which most rarely use for an LRBA. The way they do this is by not actually attaching the offset to the LRBA (which would contravene the SIS act), but simply setting up a high return rate account that matches the LRBA's rate.
    Non-bank lenders run the risk of setting up the offset as a sub-account of the LRBA because quote, “Having the offset account as a sub-account raises the question of whether the lender has a charge over an asset of the SMSF other than the acquired property, which is not permitted under the SIS Act.”

    Anyway, that's just one example of how wrong some of these 'experts' can get it.
    Plus, carefully check out the full amount of fees for your particular circumstance.
    But I highly recommend an SMSF to anyone in a position to put some extra money aside for retirement, there are potentially some huge tax benefits that far outweigh the cost once you reach preservation age.

    • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 11:15
      -1

      That was a bit jargony tbh.

      • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 12:11
        -1

        Moral of the story… You get what you pay for.
        And in the case of an SMSF, you also stand to lose heaps if not done correctly!

    • mandelbrot on 06/06/2024 - 13:36
      +2

      Most people looking at stake SMSF would be buying ETFs or stocks. Few would be buying property, and even less with LRBA loans.

      • hayfeverman on 08/06/2024 - 21:45

        Yes, my hypothesis is that the regulator probably doesn't mind these due to their simplicity. They're more worried about the bespoke agents doing exotic things with SMSF.

    • powerhead on 06/06/2024 - 17:01
      +1

      there's also trustee residency requirements to be aware of - if you lose Australian tax residency, SMSF can attract the highest marginal tax rates

  • clubhonda on 06/06/2024 - 10:45

    How much do you need to have in your Super to make this cost effective?

    • BarrytheBargain on 06/06/2024 - 11:11

      Very variable depending on who your super fund provider is, but for AusSuper in their core styled options ~$300k. If you invested in the purely indexed options at REST you would need closer to $600k as they have no investment fees. Also need to consider your life/income protection insurance as it is often cheaper with the group policies in super funds, but that will depend on many factors.
      This all varies depending on what you plan on doing, if you are investing in individual shares through your current superfunds direct investment option you would need to work it out as they would have higher fees than stake in general.

      • powerhead on 06/06/2024 - 16:55
        +1

        Very variable depending on who your super fund provider is, but for AusSuper in their core styled options ~$300k.

        you can make it cost effective with way less then 300k. Example: $120k balance, $100k in Member Direct.
        AusSuper fees for pooled International Shares options ~0.43%
        Fees in member direct: $180 p.a. platform fee (0.18% for 100k balance) + BGBL ETF MER 0.08% = total 0.26% fees

        or you could go even lower with VTS or IVV and end up with 0.21% or 0.22% respectively

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 11:46
      +1

      the most expensive investment option for Aus Super, for example, was 0.79% (admin + management fees) so I would only aim for 0.5% - 0.75% to be cost-effective so, in this case, $100k - $150k unless you want to go for a property in which case I wouldn't mind a slightly higher percentage but considering Melbourne's real estate, you would need the same anyway.

  • clubhonda on 06/06/2024 - 10:46

    Does anyone have information on what to consider in terms of setting up an SMSF for leveraged property?

    • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 11:22

      I had a brief delve into it, my understanding is the property is under a Limited Recourse Borrowing Arrangement (LRBA). The property is held in a separate trust from the rest of the super funds and if the loan defaults then the lender can only claim against the asset, not the rest of the super fund.

      Note that due to the added risk to the lender, interest rates are substantially higher.. last I looked I think I found 8.5%ish which is a bit rough.

      • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 14:47

        @Bdawg, I've currently got some through WLTH… (60% LVR) at 7.19% and (70% LVR) at 7.39%.

        • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 15:03

          That's not too bad, I could stomach that, cheers.

    • CacheHunter on 06/06/2024 - 11:31

      Leveraged property is often better outside super where you can use the negative gearing benefits.

      • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 11:35

        Yeah, I would do debt recycling and use personal income rather than through an LRBA and my SMSF.

      • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 12:33

        Yes and no.
        Some benefit is that you can max out up to the $27.5k max concessional super contributions at 15% tax each (assuming you can put the extra in and survive).
        Obviously, any negative gearing would also be calculated at the lower rate, but that calculation is up to the individual's circumstance.
        The other huge benefit is the zero CGT when you reach pension phase. The savings here could be ENORMOUS (if the Govt. doesn't f@$% us over in the meantime).

        • glenf on 06/06/2024 - 13:23

          I was told we can’t negative gear our super investments ? Are you talking SMSF with a trust setup? Even in that case , who gets to do the deductions ?

          • Snoop on 06/06/2024 - 15:18
            +1

            @glenf: Without going into it too much, essentially, yes you can. It's really not that much different to individuals in a sense that your SMSF will claim any contributions (income), profits, and losses associated with its operation.
            So basically, if you put $20k of 'concessional super' into your SMSF, you'll be taxed at the concessional rate of 15% ($3k tax owing).
            However, if running your SMSF has cost you $10k in accountant fees, etc. as well as any losses associated with your investment, whether they be rates, utilities, repairs, etc. then you deduct those losses from the profits and concessional contributions.
            So, if you've already paid that $3k in tax, your SMSF will then receive a $1500 refund for EOFY.

            Max out your concessional contributions for the year between yourself and a partner, and you're talking $55k (soon to be $60k) of income that's only taxed at 15%. Of course, any deductions / losses are only going to net you back that 15%.
            The kicker for us will be eventually hitting preservation age / retirement phase, where you'll possibly pay 0% on profits, including CGT.

            • glenf on 06/06/2024 - 15:22

              @Snoop: Thank you

            • EveryLastCent on 19/06/2024 - 00:20

              @Snoop: Would this work to roll over husband's and wife's super in one SMSF where both retired but one still in accumulation stage (preservation age not reached, so 15% tax on income) and the other one in income stage (past preservation age, so 0% tax).
              How are incomes from different assets allocated to each member and therefore to different tax levels?
              Or do you need 2 separate SMSFs?

      • Bdawg on 06/06/2024 - 12:52
        +1

        I can't use my super to buy negatively geared property outside of my super, so your point is moot.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 11:34

      It's called LRBA. Limited recourse means if you go under, the only recourse banks have is the property that’s why it’s held in a bare trust separate from your SMSF to limit liability from your trust. So, the requirements are a bit more stringent such as a min. 20% down payment and at least 10% additional liquidity so after including fees I would aim for a ~40% cash requirement. Also, the property needs to be 50 sqm internally and the interest rates are a bit higher so for some people debt recycling is a better option.

  • alz on 06/06/2024 - 13:00
    +1

    I paid an accountant 6k to set up a SMSF for me WTF was I ripped off.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 21/06/2024 - 07:01

      If it makes you feel better the difference is similar to custom vs mass produced.

  • glenf on 06/06/2024 - 13:20

    Can someone advise ? I am also looking at investing into property /shares using SMSF by adding my wife’s super into mine .

    If I am not wrong the costs for most SMSF comes to around 3-4k a year . I assumed we need to get an accountant / valuer to do annual reports .

    Does stake plan make these compliance reports for us ?

    • orido on 06/06/2024 - 13:27

      Does stake plan make these compliance reports for us ? - Yes!

      You're absolutely right, before Stake, i was budgeting around 3-5k a year for fees. But Stake does all reporting/audits/compliance for the listed prices.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/06/2024 - 13:30

      I don’t know if they do this specifically but all annual regulatory and audit requirements are handled by them.

    • mandelbrot on 06/06/2024 - 13:40

      Stake have recently released a "Stake Super Property" product for $1690p.a. They do all your reporting and administration for you. All up will cost you about $2k p.a. when you take into account ATO fees.

  • hayfeverman on 08/06/2024 - 21:46

    So we should be signing up AFTER EOFY right? Otherwise you get dinged for FY24?

    • bhunter101 on 12/06/2024 - 16:06

      Sign up now and it takes them 2 weeks to onboard you then 2 weeks to rollover your funds. You can ask them to start it on 1 July.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 18/06/2024 - 08:16
      +1

      The annual ongoing Stake SMSF administration fees are deducted from your SMSF cash account on the anniversary date of your fund.

  • DollarD on 12/06/2024 - 20:22
    +5

    EOFY30 code gives 30% off
    https://hellostake.com/au/legal/eofy-30-off-stake-super-prom…

    • hayfeverman on 13/06/2024 - 17:32

      Notice the ToCs say the promotion period is for the 24 hour period of 7 July? Does that mean we cannot use it just yet?

      • DollarD on 13/06/2024 - 18:23
        +1

        Gave 30% off when I tested it yesterday at the end (ToCs for EOFY20 also mention a 24 hour period)

      • FrugalDealSeeker on 19/06/2024 - 07:19

        Yep, just tried yesterday… confirmed works

  • EveryLastCent on 19/06/2024 - 00:27

    I don't understand why the bank accounts for SMSF are paying much lower interest on cash.
    Macquaire accelerator seems to be the best at 4.65%.
    Yet money in individual bank accounts outside super can get 5.5%.
    So for a retired couple it would make sense to keep the cash part of their assets outside super up to an amount of interests equal to the tax free threshold for each. Same 0% tax, but higher percentage interest.

  • js26 on 06/07/2024 - 07:02

    Hi. I fill in all the details in Stake website and then it gives me an option to submit my application but nowhere to enter the code. Help pls, where to enter the code? Thank you.

    • FrugalDealSeeker on 06/07/2024 - 07:41
      +2

      It’s on the very last page, just before you make the payment.

      • js26 on 06/07/2024 - 09:59
        +1

        It worked. Thank you!

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