Workers Going on Strike - Is This Acceptable?

aboogee on 28/05/2024 - 17:43
Last edited 28/05/2024 - 17:45

Title says it all - what do ozb community think about workers going on strike just because they cant reach a deal with the gov on pay rise?

While I understand the employer doing whatever it takes to keep expenses down, but for employees to then say I don't like it and therefore going on strike for me is just silly.
I mean if employees don't like the pay and benefits, then what's stopping them from looking elsewhere?
I don't think I am fairly compensated, but the reality check brings me back down to earth in that there is no better alternative, otherwise I would've gone for the better alternative.
Going on strike is effectively blackmail… and the gov should figure out a longer term solution to get out from this position.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/sydney-lightra…

Financial

Comments

        • shaybisc on 29/05/2024 - 11:09
          +1

          Yes but that's if you do a lot of overtime and that's not for me. I would have to keep living on Struggle St at $120,000.

          • pharkurnell on 29/05/2024 - 12:37
            +1

            @shaybisc: do some OT and knock that debt down and set yaself up for the future…. Although you might only get a $12,000 payrise… Poor souls.

  • nizzkid on 29/05/2024 - 12:04
    +10

    It's not just about striking.
    I've been in manufacturing for 15+ years.
    If we didn't have unions to push back against the corporations the staff would be treated like slaves with zero protections.
    Look at how Amazon America operates, you don't want that issue here.
    One company I worked for was only offering 1% pay rise per year. Refused to negotiate for NINE months. That union was useless, did nothing.
    Have been in multiple work places with different unions. And to be fair they have all been toothless tigers. Untill I joined the CFMEU. They are the only union I've experienced that actually have the ability to hold companies accountable.
    They have shut down our site multiple times due to egregious safety issues that would have NEVER been fixed or addressed if they didn't take that step.
    Management fear seeing them and are far more willing to fix issues so they are not called in.

  • ripesashimi on 29/05/2024 - 12:32

    Look at mass resignations from doctors in South Korea. There is no wakeup call until people actually die.

    Everybody has the right to work or not to work. Strikes in essence only mean somebody takes some time off work unnoticed if we consider personal accountability. But hang on, they did give notice.

  • Kiro on 29/05/2024 - 12:59
    +1

    Poll?

    Yes
    No
    Bikies

    • banana365 on 30/05/2024 - 18:06

      Option 4 - Bikkies

      (sorry, off to get a cup of tea now)

  • crazycalm1991 on 29/05/2024 - 13:06

    I guess there is the risk that your job just ends up being outsourced OS for cheaper wages.

    • Randolph Duke on 30/05/2024 - 07:30
      +2

      Generally not an option for union strong industries, since they tend to be in person jobs.

  • burns13 on 29/05/2024 - 13:48
    +5

    Unions follow the industrial relations laws very closely. These IR laws overwhelmingly favour business by the way, hence poor wage growth over recent decades. Usually protected action is lodged when employer side is demonstrably not bargaining in good faith. It is an impasse and workers right to withdraw from labour is a fundamental human right (as per the charter).

  • bmxr on 29/05/2024 - 13:55
    +2

    Title says it all - what do ozb community think about workers going on strike just because they cant reach a deal with the gov on pay rise?

    Just to clarify, the article you linked to is about workers threatening to go on strike against Transdev over a pay dispute. Transdev "is a France-based international private-sector company which operates public transport. It has operations in 17 countries and territories as of November 2020" (wikipedia).

    Not wading in to the debate on anything else, just wanted to clarify.

    • duluxe2000 on 29/05/2024 - 16:34

      I don't understand this. They strike when it hurts (the economy) the most : on weekday and during peak hours. But since Transdev is a private company, why would they care about it? For them, it's simply the math of giving the work payrise vs the lost revenue during these hours on a day. If I'm Transdev boss, I'd give a f.. abt the strike because I'm monopoly anyway.

      • Jolakot on 30/05/2024 - 08:52
        +1

        They still have targets to meet for the government, and not meeting them results in fines or even the contract being given to another company if they're unable to perform their duties.

        That's the threat, public pressures government which pressures transdev.

        • DONMAI on 30/05/2024 - 21:43

          Who pays transdev's employees and who pays transdev?

    • try2bhelpful on 29/05/2024 - 15:32
      +11

      Nah, you just have no idea what you are talking about.

      • pizzip on 30/05/2024 - 13:20
        +3

        Probably one of those parents that never interacts with their child's education in any meaningful way and just expects teachers to fix their terrible parenting choices.

        • banana365 on 30/05/2024 - 18:08
          +1

          Or has no children at all and is just opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble to repeat the catch-phrases of other numpties.

    • smartazz104 on 29/05/2024 - 21:40
      +5

      Should look more closely at why kids these days are doing worse. Perhaps you could become a teacher yourself, might open your eyes a bit.

      • HangryCakeStore on 29/05/2024 - 21:45

        Compared to most countries other than USA, it’s definitely got to do with the teaching

  • snapper17 on 29/05/2024 - 15:48

    they better be careful this job can be automated

    • aboogee on 29/05/2024 - 19:48

      don't think unions will ever approve automation. wasnt there a documentary on this? (not rail but another sector)

      • snapper17 on 29/05/2024 - 20:12

        the union wont make the decision. they use automation in the mines in the dump trucks so why cant it be used on tram and trains that are on rails?
        there will be some trained humans to take over if needed or to inspect te tracks ect but soon this will be automated

  • CommuterPolluter on 29/05/2024 - 17:02
    -3

    This is what you get when you cut back on migration: strikes.

  • jv on 29/05/2024 - 17:10
    -3

    Workers Going on Strike - Is This Acceptable?

    No. Sack them.

  • gromit on 29/05/2024 - 17:22
    -1

    I don't think there is one simple answer to this. Yes a lot, maybe even most, unions are more corrupt and self serving than anything and hav little to no interest in whats best for the employee or employer. Having said that unions have achieved some good outcomes in the past through strikes. What I find appalling is the strike where non related businesses are hit to try with strikes in support of their "work colleagues", dock workers come to mind.

    • ThithLord on 30/05/2024 - 14:33

      I don't think there is one simple answer to this. Yes a lot, maybe even most, unions are more corrupt and self serving than anything

      [citation sorely needed]

  • TightLikeThisx on 29/05/2024 - 18:22
    +5

    You do realize how many things like holiday pay, sick pay, maternity leave etc are due to collective bargaining?

    If big business/government would have their way you would earn just enough so that you could show up to work the next day.

    If you think workers getting payed a good wage is concerning don't read about how much the project went over budget.

  • MessyG on 29/05/2024 - 18:35

    Okay what if you're a nurse though, and wages haven't risen commensurate with cost of living, you can't afford to live anywhere near close to work, and the remuneration you're receiving in no way reflects the level of skill required to do that job, or accounts for the amount of vicarious trauma and workplace assault. Same with ambos. They're not asking for lambhorginis, they're just asking for a decent life outside of work.

    On a side note, the radio silence from MSM right now about the rather large nursing industrial action and hospital bed closures is…interesting.

  • belongsinforums on 29/05/2024 - 19:43
    +5

    cant believe ozbargain is full of anti union shills. what bargains have they given them?

    • aboogee on 29/05/2024 - 20:08

      to clarify, i am not against union.
      i am just not sure about strikes.

      • belongsinforums on 29/05/2024 - 20:10
        +3

        then youve never been in a situation where your employer hasnt given you a payrise, effectively making it so that you dont get paid less the longer you work for them. id strongly suggest taking anything from the custard mail with a very small grain of salt

        • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 00:30

          point taken - my view is 100% based on what i read from the news which could be biased.

          but i have, for most part of my career, been given less than inflation payrises.
          i also work easily 50hrs per week because i like what i do
          payrise for me only happens when i get a promotion, otherwise i've never had payrises greater than inflation.

          • Jolakot on 30/05/2024 - 08:54
            +1

            @aboogee: Why don't you count inflation payrises as payrises?

            • aboogee on 01/06/2024 - 00:37

              @Jolakot: Just responding to belongsinforums' remark
              As an employee, more is better, and is always going to be the case

            • BuzzBuzzBuzz on 01/06/2024 - 12:56

              @Jolakot: Why would you allow an employer to class "paying you the same amount in real terms" as a pay increase?

              • Jolakot on 01/06/2024 - 18:55

                @BuzzBuzzBuzz: For the same reason that maccas raising the price of a soft serve to $1.1 is a price increase.

                The pay you receive has increased, therefore it's a pay increase. Whether that's enough to beat inflation or not doesn't change that fact does it?

      • Aleigh123 on 29/05/2024 - 21:14
        +1

        It seems like you've not been in a situation where your employer sees fit to increase your salary each year by a fraction of the inflation rate, meaning you're effectively being paid less each year for many years.

        • gromit on 30/05/2024 - 10:43
          -1

          I haven't been in that situation for 30 years. Unions have there place, but in many industries they are irrelevant. I negotiate my raises and bonus position with my boss each year, if I am not happy I would simply walk into a job elsewhere or switch to contracting, neither of which are in my employers interest so they make sure at worst I am content with the pay situation.

          • DashCam AKA Rolts on 30/05/2024 - 18:40
            +1

            @gromit: Must be nice to have such a unique and irreplaceable skill set. You're probably one of a handful of such people in the country. Well done. /s

            • gromit on 30/05/2024 - 19:14
              +1

              @DashCam AKA Rolts: nothing unique about it, it is relatively common. Despite what many of the more ignorant believe, not all employers are out to screw employees and anyone with decent skills that are desirable have bargaining power.

    • ThithLord on 30/05/2024 - 14:34
      +1

      I'm finding a lot more push-back against anti-union sentiment in this thread, to be honest. Workers unite!

      • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 22:08

        should i add poll?
        its obvious that its the other way round…

        • ThithLord on 01/06/2024 - 09:16

          Anti-union flogs are getting whupped in here, what are you talking about? See the very first comment. -1 comment score versus my 154+ pro-union comment. How delusional are you?

  • SpicyStew on 29/05/2024 - 19:45
    +2

    the reality check brings me back down to earth in that there is no better alternative

    you're a pleb so do what you're told and stop complaining

  • surg3on on 29/05/2024 - 21:10
    +3

    OP has told me he has never read a history book or watched one of them dere learnin youtube videos.

  • smartazz104 on 29/05/2024 - 21:42
    +2

    Admit it OP, this has somehow inconvenienced you directly, hasn't it…

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 00:25

      Nope - I always preferred the bus anyway and with flex working these days, I'm pretty sure people affected will just work from home.

      Per one of my comments above, my colleagues were going to strike in ~2011.
      I never agreed, and never thought it was right
      Thats not to say i liked my pay - i just moved on when i felt the place was under-valuing me, and it was alot easier when the underpay was significant because it doesnt take much to find a better alternative.

      • banana365 on 31/05/2024 - 11:36
        +1

        I'm pretty sure people affected will just work from home.

        That shows just how narrow your experience is. The percentage of jobs that can be done from home is not that high and the percentage of those that are actually set up to enable it is even lower.

        • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 13:39

          Sorry I get you disagree with my view
          But I don't quite get the logic - the purpose of my post is to ask if people agree with strike
          I personally don't agree, even though I am not impacted.
          But people here seems to think I am out of touch and are supportive of workers going on strike

          It was never about union, which people seem to think what I am suggesting.

          • banana365 on 31/05/2024 - 14:14
            +1

            @aboogee: That's what happens when you ask a fairly leading question about a subject that a lot of people care about - it expands past the original intent and opens up other aspects. It was a good question that's prompted some great responses, whether they agree or disagree with one's viewpoint.

  • Techie4066 on 30/05/2024 - 00:51
    +3

    Just fyi the light rail industrial action was called off the same day because Transdev met their demands and will provide pay parity to new drivers on the Parramatta line

  • Commander Shepard on 30/05/2024 - 07:29
    +6

    Workers of different industries wouldnt have ever unionized if the businesses simply treated them well, listened to their staff and compensated them fairly in the first place.

    The system isnt perfect. But some people that came before us had to sacrifice a lot so that we have the working conditions we have today

  • luffyex2010 on 30/05/2024 - 08:51
    -2

    Union membership is declining a fact. Not siding but just to give pure facts.

    1976 56% total workforce
    2023 12.5%

    Youth membership
    21-24 yrs old 5%
    15-19yrs old 2%

    To summarise….. Sorry guys, the bad news is your Unions will be extinct in the near future especially when the government and corporate are actively seeking ways to get rid of you guys etc a. I., import of foreign labour.

    Don't be upset current union members, enjoy what your current unions is fighting for but for the future generations I don't see unions will be able to get their membership.

    Have a great day people.

    Should have a poll to see what the people think of unions.

    Fun fact
    The estimated salary for a Tram Driver is $78,000 per year.22 Jan 2024

    Fyi

    About negotiating it should involved all Australians. There should be a general consensus vote of what we do with our national money e.g.320billions sub, taxes on foreign companies sucking our natural resources, our freaking $2 a litre u98 petrol prices, our bloody tolls everywhere roads….. These are the topics that all Australian should have negotiation power over…. My opinion.

    • Jolakot on 30/05/2024 - 09:29
      +3

      It's an interesting contradiction, because gen z is the most pro-union generation alive. These are American statistics though, so take them with a grain of salt: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-closing-gender-…

      I'm borderline gen z, I would join a union if I could. Everyone in my peer group thinks the same, only those in construction and nursing actually have a decent union to join though.

      Union sentiment is very high, but union participation is very low. I think there will be a shift over decades with new unions replacing the old corrupt boomer unions, especially with support for legal reform at an all time high

      • luffyex2010 on 30/05/2024 - 09:43

        True but still a minority.

        Just 10% of the U.S. workforce belonged to unions in 2023, down from 10.1% in 2022. That's the lowest in Labor Department records dating back to 1983.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 30/05/2024 - 11:42
          +3

          Sadly the USA is a majority 'At will' country, meaning 'n employer can terminate employment for any reason, at any time provided that is not illegal'.

          Basically employers have sacked and continue to sack workers for reasons such as a persons faith, or lack of faith, physical appearance, political stance and many more cray cray reasons.

    • RolandWaites on 30/05/2024 - 23:48
      +2

      It is a shame. What's frustrating is that so few people either can't see or refuse to acknowledge - or acknowledge but can't be ar*ed addressing - the fact that there's a clear correlation between the general decline in union membership in the past few decades and the decline in wage growth.

      Strong unions mean strong wage growth, employee protections and higher standard of living for all. Unfortunately too many people have been tricked, or pressured, by employees and/or peers into thinking it's not worth their while.

      I can sympathise - when I was working retail at 17 and the union rep came in I really saw no value in giving him a few bucks a week for something I didn't think I needed, or would ever help me. Why would my employer screw me over? We're all in this together - and if we aren't, some union isn't going to help me.

      Fortunately I grew up, developed an understanding of labour, its value, employee-employer relations and a macro-level understanding of the economy and society, and am now vehemently pro-union. Definitely worth the dozen dollars a week I contribute - and it's tax deductable too.

      • ThithLord on 31/05/2024 - 14:39

        King comment

  • JumpingUnicorns on 30/05/2024 - 10:23
    +3

    Someone buy this for OP and Spackbase

    https://hamishandandy.com/product/lost-touch-t-shirt/

  • WastedWombat on 30/05/2024 - 10:37
    +7

    Workers withholding labour is the only form of power they have against an employer and it only works when they do it together as a union.
    Big companies are becoming more and more powerful and the people at the top only get richer. Compared to the top of the food chain, the bottom workers are still getting cents to the dollar. Unions are A GOOD THING.

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 20:29

      not sure if i ever implied union is bad in my post.
      i just asked if people think going on strike is OK
      seems like people think it is and so be it

      • WastedWombat on 31/05/2024 - 10:48
        +2

        Right………….

        "but for employees to then say I don't like it and therefore going on strike for me is just silly."

        "I mean if employees don't like the pay and benefits, then what's stopping them from looking elsewhere?"

        "Going on strike is effectively blackmail…"

        Yeah I dunno why I thought that my b

        • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 13:43

          I am a simple person.
          None of what you quoted above has the word union in it.
          I am just saying, if someone dont like the conditions, then find another job
          I personally don't think strike is "good" and hence my post

          But I do concede by the point made by jsparky77 that not all employees are mobile.
          In that instance, it does seem like my logic is somewhat flawed
          But again, nothing against union. Just "strike"

  • SupeNintendoChalmers on 30/05/2024 - 11:37
    +3

    You gotta fight, for your right, to unionise.

  • cenakhoa on 30/05/2024 - 11:37

    Going on strike is individual rights but different people working in different industries could be more resilient than other and strike less often, but it does not means that we should give more attention to squeeker wheels. Nurse, childcare educator and teacher strike less often but those jobs are draining as well.

  • lonewolf on 30/05/2024 - 12:29
    +5

    Union Achievements

    Annual Leave
    Paid Annual Leave was first won after a campaign by printing workers in 1936. The Arbitration Commission granted the workers paid leave, which was then gained by other workers through their unions in different industries. Annual leave loading of 17.5 per cent was first won by workers in the Metal Industry in 1973.

    Awards
    Awards are legally binding documents that set out the minimum entitlements for workers in every industry. The first industrial award, the Pastoral Workers Award was established by the Australian Workers Union in 1908, mainly covering shearers. The shearers had experienced a terrible deterioration of their wages and conditions during the 1897 Depression and decided to take action to protect working people. Since 1904, awards have underpinned the pay and terms and conditions of employment for millions of workers. Awards are unique to Australia and integral in ensuring workers get ‘fair pay for a fair day’s work’.

    Penalty Rates
    Penalty rates were established in 1947, when unions argued in the Arbitration Commission that people needed extra money for working outside normal hours.

    Maternity leave
    Australian unions’ intensive campaigning for paid parental leave ended in victory with the introduction of the Paid Parental leave scheme by the Gillard Labor government. Under the scheme, working parents of children born or adopted after 1 January 2011 are entitled to a maximum of 18 weeks’ pay on the National Minimum Wage.

    Superannuation
    Prior to 1986, only a select group of workers were entitled to Superannuation. It became a universal entitlement after the ACTU’s National Wage Case. Employers had to pay 3% of workers’ earnings into Superannuation. This later increased to 9% and on November 2, 2011 the ACTU and its unions’ “Stand Up for Super” campaign celebrated another win for working Australians, when the Labor Government moved to increase the compulsory Superannuation Guarantee to 12% over 6 years from 1 July 2013 to 1 July 2019.

    Equal Pay for Women
    Although there were attempts to introduce equal pay going back as far as 1949, the principle of equal pay for women was finally adopted by Australian Conciliation and Arbitration Commission in 1969.

    Health and Safety and Workers’ Compensation
    Workers compensation laws first came into existence in West Australia in 1902. For many years unions agitated and campaigned for health and safety laws which compelled employers to provide a safe working environment. In Victoria, legislation was introduced in 1985 which saw the active role of workers in maintaining safety on the job. Building unions agitated for many years to ban the use of asbestos, finally succeeding in the 1980’s.

    Sick leave
    Before sick leave, you turned up to work if you were sick, or you went without pay. Sick leave provisions began to appear in awards in the 1920’s and unions have campaigned hard for better sick leave conditions over the years, across all industries.

    Long service leave
    Coal workers went on strike in 1949 over a 35 hour week and Long service leave. Long service leave was finally introduced in New South Wales in 1951. Unions in other states followed.

    Redundancy pay
    The Arbitration Commission introduced the first Termination, Change and Redundancy Clause into awards due to work by metalworkers and their union. This entitled workers to redundancy pay.

    Allowances: shift allowance, uniform allowance
    Unions in different industries have campaigned for allowances that pertain to their members. Many workers who are required to wear uniforms in their jobs, get an allowance for this rather than having to pay for uniforms themselves.

    Shift allowances are money that’s paid for working at night or in the afternoon. Different industries have different allowances that were won by workers and their unions over the years.

    Meal Breaks, rest breaks
    Before unions agitated for meal breaks and rest breaks to be introduced, workers were required to work the whole day without a break. In 1973, workers at Ford in Melbourne engaged in industrial action over many issues, one of their demands being a proper break from the production line.

    Collective Bargaining
    Enterprise Bargaining was introduced in 1996 which allowed workers and their unions to negotiate directly with their employer over pay and conditions. Evidence from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows that collective bargaining delivers better wages than individual agreements for ordinary workers.

    Unfair Dismissal Protection
    Unfair Dismissal Protection came from the concept of a “fair go all round”, after the Australian Workers Union took a case to the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission on behalf of a worker who had been unfairly sacked in 1971. Since then, unions have campaigned for laws that reflect that ‘fair go’ principle, which is about having a valid reason to sack someone and that the dismissal cannot be harsh, unjust or unreasonable.

    • ThithLord on 30/05/2024 - 14:35
      +3

      Yeah, but besides all those incredible factors that make working in Australia so beneficial, what have they done for me?!?!?!

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 20:27
      -1

      just to be clear - the post was never about how useful or useless union is.
      i was just saying it feels wrong to be going on a strike, especially when it may cause inconvenience to others

      • lonewolf on 30/05/2024 - 20:33
        +2

        Then the issue is with the company / employer and not the people going on strike.

      • Eeples on 31/05/2024 - 01:11
        +3

        But how do you think those working conditions and benefits were arrived at…. Hint: striking

      • CrowReally on 31/05/2024 - 09:20
        +2

        So if the union asks for a change to be made in the workplace conditions and the employer says "absolutely not" and won't negotiate, what tools should the unions then use (if not striking)?

        • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 13:52

          Apologies - maybe I am really out of touch, but in this case based on what is in the media (i know whats coming next), there is nothing that suggested the employer says "absolutely not". There were no further details provided.

          Based on my experience from 10yrs ago (which I articulated above), my union wanted 3.5% and the employer came back with 2.0%. People wanted to strike because of that. Frankly, I don't even know if it made news.

          Now my point is, my employer did come back with an offer. It was just not to the union's liking. I can't comment on how it played out in this one.

  • afah0447 on 30/05/2024 - 13:26
    +5

    Have you ever used annual, sick, carers or parental leave? Employers wouldnt pay these if they had a choice. Striking has forced employers to pay these.

  • jsparky77 on 30/05/2024 - 13:34
    +9

    People here are missing the crucial part of the debate. Forget unions, slavery, etc. The key part here is the industry you work in. If I am an engineer or a lawyer or similar, there is an open labour market. If I think my employer is underpaying me - I can go elsewhere to test my theory like you say. However, if I work in nursing, teaching, or public transport operating (among other roles), often there is only one employer (the government) that can dictate the going rate. For those industries, striking is pretty much the only negotiating power. Sometimes, there are a few employers, like with light rail drivers, but the government orgs that run the busses and trains still employ a huge part of the market so they are a monopoly.

    • CheapCoffee on 30/05/2024 - 13:44
      +3

      I can't believe you are the first person to really mention this. It really depends on the industry and who has the control. Monopolised (or similar) industries or heavily regulated industries only have unions to rely on to drive their bargaining power because they often don't have other options in the industry.

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 20:22
      +1

      thats a good point. cheers

  • addison666 on 30/05/2024 - 13:52
    +1

    Everybody has the right to demand better pay/conditions, and to strike where they feel this is the only way. I was screwed hard by the government (Victorian teacher) in the last EBA (VSGA), and now we have teacher shortages. Of course these strikes are the fault of the teachers, and not the government or their lapdog union (AEU). I think we should be seeing more strikes.

  • DingoBlue on 30/05/2024 - 14:36
    +1

    The union just puts the employer and employees into a 1:1 balance instead of one employer versus many small replaceable pieces.

    Shrug.

  • DiscoRaatus on 30/05/2024 - 16:08
    +3

    Spoken like a true scab!

  • bikboy on 30/05/2024 - 16:09
    -4

    Never hire Union members.

    • banana365 on 31/05/2024 - 11:42
      +1

      Never work for @bikboy He's obviously out to shaft employees and wants to do so with impunity.

  • scooba on 30/05/2024 - 17:28

    "I don't think I am fairly compensated, but the reality check brings me back down to earth in that there is no better alternative"

    It's small minded thinking like this that doesn't get people anywhere in society, only you think that there isn't a better alternative, some of us know there's a better alternative but people like yourself just want to keep pushing the broken trolley and either have no idea how to start and support real change or are too frightened to stand up in the first place.

    "Going on strike is effectively blackmail"

    Fifty cents has been added to your social credit score, thank you for your "submission".

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 20:25
      +1

      if there is an equivalent job offering you a better pay, then why not take it?
      the fact that no one is offering a higher pay means either one is being compensated fairly or over-valuing one's self.

      but i concede with jsparky77's view, that some of the jobs have less mobility.

      • Eeples on 31/05/2024 - 01:14
        +1

        No one is fairly compensated.

        The value you bring to your employer is always more than your pay.

        • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 13:45

          frankly, that one i have to strongly disagree
          there are people who are overcompensated, and some undercompensated.
          but i think everyone (myself included) has a bias to think they are undercompensated.

  • Dagwood-Dog on 30/05/2024 - 18:50
    +3

    Sounds like a scab talking.

  • Something Darkside on 30/05/2024 - 19:11
    +2

    More than appropriate especially in monopoly industries like state owned enterprises or state granted, e.g. police, health care, rail etc.

    You can't just leave and go somewhere else where there is no where else to go.

    In general I think there should always be a healthy tension between the employee and the employer (any contract really), there should always be a little bit of I could have done better on both sides, but not enough that it's undeniably unfair. Unions have their place to keep that tension.

    • aboogee on 30/05/2024 - 20:26

      fair point. cheers

  • Danno666 on 30/05/2024 - 19:19
    +2

    I worked in Mining, underground for 35 years. Not only did unions have a huge impact on safety in my workplace, it also maintained workers rights against some hostile attacks by huge multinational corporations.

    So many workers take so much for granted these days.

    Almost all current workers rights have been fought for over the years by union workers.

    I have since worked in smaller industries where employers pay the bare minimum and use every law and loophole to their advantage. Luckily there is a minimum set of standards that these employers need to adhere to. Most of these minimum standards were achieved by unions and their members.

    A good example of why unions are worth it is the yearly minimum wage argument. This year unions want 5% to claw back real wages lost when the Liberals were in power and workers real wages went backwards. Employer groups want this years increases to be 2%. Say no more.

    When a union worker is on strike, not only are they fighting for a better deal for themselves and their colleagues, but they also raise the bar for all workers.

    • Eeples on 31/05/2024 - 01:18
      +2

      We hear much about inflation but very little about it being caused by massive profit taking by businesses.

      Business believe in the market and supply and demand. EXCEPT, of course when it comes to the labour market. I’ve yet to hear a business argue that labour shortages ought to result in higher wages.

      • aboogee on 31/05/2024 - 14:00

        Perhaps just different industry. I definitely have seen first hand how an admin-ish job which used to get paid $60k was offered $130k+ 2yrs ago.
        And this is perhaps why I have been labelled out of touch in this post.
        It may just be the experience is so different so i apologise if I offended anyone.
        It was just about "not striking". Nothing about union.

        https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-…

  • ginger-gin on 30/05/2024 - 20:39

    Using this thread, i am wondering what’s the current percentage pay raise supposedly reasonable to align with the current inflation? My raise was only 3% last year anf this year they said can’t meet the target so even no bonus though

  • RefusdClassification on 30/05/2024 - 20:49
    -4

    Unionizing should be illegal. Why? Because unions stand for less work for more pay.

    Who pay for the decreased productivity and the increased wages? Why, the rest of us go, the ones who aren't members of the protected rusted on ALP voting class.

    People like unionized jobs because you get paid a lot of money for doing very little. But you are essentially a parasite living at the expense of the productive (non-unionized) members of society.

    • ThithLord on 31/05/2024 - 14:45

      mate what kronic are you on cos it's got you all whack

    • Dagwood-Dog on 01/06/2024 - 17:02
      +1

      BAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

  • Kiro on 30/05/2024 - 21:18
    +1

    Remember peeps, unions are a collective of people, the workers, with the same goals in mind.
    If a company doesn't care for workers and as living expenses go up, it is totally within the collectives right to strike if the company isn't caring or giving what the workers want, if the companies profits keep going up and up, why can't the workers get rewarded?

    Like previous people mentioned. The unions or I should say the collective of workers rallied together to provide what we take for granted today.

    In my belief everyone has a right to strike, the stronger the workers results will show.

  • grr1701 on 31/05/2024 - 13:18
    +2

    My sister worked for SGIO, a large insurance business for decades. It was a good place to work. Then it was taken over and became Suncorp. Not long afterwards, workers’ pays and conditions started to be whittled away. They had to vote on a new, lesser deal. When my sister pointed out to other employees how bad the deal was, and why, quite a few of them said that “the Union wouldn’t let the employers do that to us.” When she pointed out that these f-wits weren’t even Union members, they were aghast. They acted like they didn’t realised they had to pay to be protected by the Union. The deal went through, my sister went elsewhere, and the rest got screwed financially. I guess that would be the Union’s fault not the mongrel employer’s.

  • amy8017 on 31/05/2024 - 15:04
    +2

    Think of the bigger picture and the type of society you want to live in.

    Union members have this tool at their disposal to lift safety and wage standards for working people.
    Do you think it's right that ordinary Australians shouldn't have to work three jobs to stay out of poverty like in the US? Do you think it's right that Australians should be entitled to safe workplaces? Unions have achieved this. It would be a scary world for working people without collective bargaining power.

    The worse the general population's wages are, the worse our economy will be. The way wealth is distributed is already alarming and is continuing to widen rapidly, all because of free market capitalism and greedy people who want those unlucky enough to be born poor to essentially be slaves.

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