Got Fined for Same Offence Twice, Chance to Contest It?

sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 13:58

I forgot to update address, and so did not receive rego renew notice resulting our car being de-registered.
Got 2 fines (Can't remember the exact fine and name)
A: 371 Driving un-registered car
B: 611 Driving un-insured car
But I did not know the fine because they were sent to old address until I was pulled over by a cop.

I thought the cop was nice explaining what's going on and allow us to drive back to our home, until he sent us 3 more fines later
C: 371 Driving un-registered car
D: 611 Driving un-insured car
E: 123 Possession of unregistered car plate

C,D are exactly the same offense as A,B, except 2 were in my name and the other 2 were my wife.

I know it is my fault. I already started payment of A and B and prepared to pay E, is there any chances to contest C D? The notice says to contact the police station but not sure they would act nice. I submitted an online enquiry form but nothing come back. What's left is stand in the court….?

Thanks

Poll Options

  • 38
    Take it to the cop shop, they can withdraw it
  • 18
    Take it to the court, you might win
  • 220
    No chance. You can't win the system
Automotive

Comments

      • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2024 - 15:38

        I'd have thought it'd be applied on the first offence and not the second one in that case?

    • JimmyF on 17/04/2024 - 15:30

      OP didn't get E: 123 Possession of unregistered car plate twice, only once.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2024 - 15:45

        I know, I was wondering why only once, and why on the second instance of being pinched instead of the first, since circumstances didn't change.

  • Drpepper666 on 17/04/2024 - 14:57
    +4

    You're screwed. Take it as an expensive lesson and thank god you didn't crash your car into person or property while it was uninsured… Driving is a privilege not a right.

  • emblurr on 17/04/2024 - 15:01
    +5

    A cop allowed you to drive an un-registered car home? no way…

    • pharkurnell on 17/04/2024 - 15:10
      +1

      I thought they usually took the # plate off the car on the spot.

      • Euphemistic on 18/04/2024 - 05:57
        +1

        If its stil within the period where you can renew without reinspection they wont take the plates. In NSW i think its 3 months before the rego is cancelled. Until then its just expired and xam be renewed. If its cancelled, then you need to reapply.

        • pharkurnell on 18/04/2024 - 11:55

          yea that sounds familiar.. although lately seen plenty of cars parked up without plates on side of main roads.

    • smpantsonfire on 17/04/2024 - 20:35
      +1

      That’s what I was thinking. That cop must have really trusted OP.

      If they were in an accident, ooooof!

    • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 08:47

      I once got pulled over driving an allegedly unregistered car in NSW, and the cop allowed me to continue my trip to QLD.

      (However, I'd paid for a permit in SA to drive the car unregistered, so i was insured in SA, and apparently QLD accept that. This cop reckons NSW don't accept it, and that he was doing me a huge favour allowing me to continue. Personally, I reckon the cop looked it up and realised he was wrong, but I'll never know.)

  • MS Paint on 17/04/2024 - 15:06
    +1

    When moving address, change of licence details is surely at the top of your "things to do" list. FFS.

    • Save 50 Cent on 17/04/2024 - 16:24
      +3

      I don't know about you but "don't scratch the 42" plasma screen" is at the top of my list.

  • hasher22 on 17/04/2024 - 15:10
    -4

    Why is driving an uninsured car an offence?

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 15:11
      +4

      It is referring to CTP

      • hasher22 on 17/04/2024 - 15:14

        Oh right, thank you.

        There's no harm trying to fight it.

        I got a fine parking in a loading zone with my CX3 and it was my first fine. I got a ticket for it but I was nice in my appeal and said if they can pardon my fine as it was my first offence and technically by law I can park there as it's counted as a station wagon on my rego.

        But I know that's completely different. It's worth trying to ask for a pardon through the first hurdle of contesting online. But might be another challenge if you want to go to court.

        • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 15:17

          Judging by others' response it is not worth to go to court
          Might just try my luck at cop shop.
          I have never been to cop shop just hope they are not intimidating bunch.

          • Save 50 Cent on 17/04/2024 - 16:25
            +3

            @sneijder: Depends on how hot you are.

          • md333 on 18/04/2024 - 12:19

            @sneijder: Is it just the two times you've driven the car since the rego expired? Potentially liable for a whole lot more fines if not. May be better to just pay up and hope noone notices.

          • johnno07 on 19/04/2024 - 23:22

            @sneijder:

            Might just try my luck at cop shop

            Given you've just broken the law a bunch of times by being ignorant - good bloody luck.

  • jv on 17/04/2024 - 15:19
    +3

    I submitted an online enquiry form but nothing come back

    Wait for reply, unless you submitted an old email address…

  • pharkurnell on 17/04/2024 - 15:24
    +3

    Different dates = different offenses..

    • Save 50 Cent on 17/04/2024 - 16:26
      +3

      Different countries = different spelling

      • senor cogswallop on 18/04/2024 - 20:23
        +2

        Cue Phil Collins In the Air Tonight drum solo….

        My mother told me it was a waste of time for me to pursue my bachelors degree in mathiomatics but I think I've been waiting all my life to shine here at this very moment….

        if we cross out "different" because they are common on both sides, then
        countries = spelling

        I confirm this statement is true. Countries do spell. Therefore "pharkurnell" and "Ridiculous Panda" are correct.

        drops mic

        • Save 50 Cent on 18/04/2024 - 20:58

          Please also drop the joint in your other hand. You’ve had enough today.

  • Gdsamp on 17/04/2024 - 15:35
    +1

    you probably already have your answer here from but it would help to clear up the timeframe of when things happened, presumably it is:

    1. moved house but did not update address with qld gov
    2. registration expired
    3. identified as driving unregistered and fines A,B sent to old address (not yet received)
    4. pulled over and fined for C,D,E
    5. updated address with qld gov
    6. received fines A,B

    out of interest how much are the fines all up

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 15:42
      +2

      More or less that. But to be exact
      1. moved house but did not update address with qld gov
      2. registration expired
      3. identified as driving unregistered and fines A,B sent to old address (not yet received)
      4. pulled over and realized we are in deep shit
      5. Update address. Find out A,B. Get the car re-registered. Paid the first installment
      6. Received fine for C,D,E issued by the cop in 4.
      7. OZbargain

      about 2000 in total.

      • xuqi on 17/04/2024 - 17:31
        +4

        It's a hard pill to swallow but luckily you didn't have an accident whilst driving and unregistered (also uninsured vehicle).

      • racer1234 on 17/04/2024 - 17:51
        +3

        They could have added the fine for failed to update address within 14 days. Another $113.

  • Duckie2hh on 17/04/2024 - 15:41
    +1

    LMAO

  • Hvrd on 17/04/2024 - 15:50

    you are legally required to update address within a certain time which you did not, if you had of then maybe there would of been leniency

  • coffeeinmyveins on 17/04/2024 - 16:01
    +1

    There's no limit to the number of times you can be fined mate.

    If you drive without a licence and you get pulled over and fined for it, you can then immediately get pulled over again, infinite times. This isn't a game where you have an "immunity shield" for a period of time lol

    • smpantsonfire on 17/04/2024 - 20:41

      This is not always true.

      It is reasonable that the law expects one to take action within a acceptable timeframe.

      If you get a fine 2 days in a row for speeding, with the same camera on the same road, generally you can appeal the second one. This is because you were not aware of the first fine, and were unable to reasonably correct your driving behaviour before the second one.

      To your example, for something like being told you are unlicensed by a police officer at a RBT for example, and then driving again, yes fine away.

      • Drakesy on 18/04/2024 - 10:34

        If you get a fine 2 days in a row for speeding, with the same camera on the same road, generally you can appeal the second one. This is because you were not aware of the first fine, and were unable to reasonably correct your driving behaviour before the second one.

        Yeahnah

  • MITM on 17/04/2024 - 16:01
    +1

    Just checked all my rego's online - 2 mins max. All good, address still good. Thanks for the heads up OP.

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 16:13

      You are welcome

  • stedmaster on 17/04/2024 - 16:06

    In WA there is an app you can get called License Alert through department of transport. I linked my regos and license to it a number of years ago, you can set notifications about rego or license expiry etc, sms and email, it can list demerits and even unserved notices too. If you travel a lot or have a few vehicles, its a handy app. Although not sure if eastern states have one. You can even pay the rego through it.

    I highly recommend it, as its easier than you might think to get caught out in this situation, I've seen this often.

    • pharkurnell on 17/04/2024 - 16:14
      +3

      most mobiles and email apps have calendars which you can use to put in dates like these

      • stedmaster on 18/04/2024 - 14:17

        I used to make manual calendar entries until I came across the app, it is much more convenient and provides a lot more information. If you're buying a car, you just type in the rego and it can add everything in automatically.

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 16:15

      I think QLD does. thanks

  • KangaDrew on 17/04/2024 - 16:11
    +1

    Where's the poll vote to Suck it up princess, this one is (or rather, these five are) entirely on you?

  • gromit on 17/04/2024 - 16:18

    If they were the same date you might have a chance. But different dates I would say you have to cop it and consider yourself lucky you didn't get an additional fine for not updating your address which you are also legally required to do.

  • freefall101 on 17/04/2024 - 16:57
    +3

    It took me a few reads of OPs post and comments, but from what I can tell they were picked up by a number plate recognition camera and a fine was sent to OPs name at his old address so he never got it. Then while OP's wife was driving a cop pulled them over and gave her a set of fines. There's no way of dodging those two sets of fines because it was clearly two events and two different people being fined.

    There's also this:

    https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/fines/number-plate-r…

    Even if you have received an automated infringement notice, the Queensland Police Service can still issue you a fine at any time for driving unregistered.

  • scooba on 17/04/2024 - 17:27
    +1

    Hate to say it buy here's your two most important mistakes -

    "But I did not know the fine because they were sent to old address until I was pulled over by a cop."

    "I thought the cop was nice explaining what's going on and allow us to drive back to our home"

    Considering you and your wife have been fined for the same offences, that makes it look very bad for the both of you and almost like you can't understand or don't respect the laws in regard to the offences.

    I wouldn't try to contest it in any way if I was either of you, the both of you have monumentally screwed up and should ultimately wear it like any other Australian citizens, Unless you want the judge to increase the fines when you appear in court, not to mention having to pay court costs on top of that.

  • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 17:35

    A: 371 Driving un-registered car
    B: 611 Driving un-insured car

    I've never understood why these two are separate offences. If you're driving an unregistered car, then it's also uninsured by default.

    .

    • jjjaar on 17/04/2024 - 17:53
      +1

      Because you can drive an uninsured car that is registered, so they need an offence number for that scenario.

      • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 17:56

        The insurance the'yre referring to is the personal injury one (for eg, NSW, it's CTP and for VIC, it's TAC). They're compulsory, so for your car to be registered, you either have a current CTP policy or pay the TAC charge as part of the registration costs.

        It is not an offence to drive without third party property damage or comprehensive insurance (although, I personally think the property-based insurances should be made compulsory too… but that's another matter altogether).

        • jjjaar on 17/04/2024 - 18:01

          In Vic, TAC is included in our rego fees, yes. But it seems like CTP in QLD (where OP is) can be purchased separately:

          You can buy compulsory third party (CTP) insurance from any of Queensland's licensed CTP insurers or when you register your vehicle through the Department of Transport and Main Roads (DTMR)

          Perhaps there’s ways to bundle the CTP with the full insurance of your car for discounts? So if people choose to purchase CTP elsewhere, maybe the rego still goes through without a sense check of the CTP?

          Or I’m completely wrong, I honestly have no idea what goes on in QLD.

          If the latter, it’s probably an archaic offence that hasn’t been reviewed.

          • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 18:03
            +1

            @jjjaar: haha I won't pretend to know what happens in QLD either!

            In NSW, when you purchase the CTP policy off an insurer, it automatically updates a flag in the RMS systems and then you can pay your rego. If you haven't, the system doesn't allow you to pay because the requirements are not met.

            • jjjaar on 17/04/2024 - 18:06

              @bobbified: Oh that’s just confusing, I much prefer the Vic way that it’s just all in the one payment.

              Especially as with Vic you can pay your rego every 3 or 6 months too. If this is possible in NSW, how often does the CTP red flag come up? The first payment due after the CTP expires, or if the yearly anniversary date?

              • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 18:11

                @jjjaar: If I remember correctly, you can buy a 6 month or 12 month CTP policy. At the time of the rego payment, it does a check that you have a current policy.

        • johnno07 on 19/04/2024 - 23:24

          You cannot register a car in QLD without CTP. The only choice you get is a choice of insurer.

    • Ricktheroller on 19/04/2024 - 15:41

      In SA you pay for your CTP insurance at the time of registration but the insurance is valid for 30 days after the registration has expired. An expiry notice is sent once the registration has expired so this gives you time to renew your registration before your insurance also expires. Basically trying to reduce the chances of someone being involved in an incident where one of the parties has expired CTP insurance.

      For this reason there are separate fines, with the first being driving unregistered and the second being driving unregistered and uninsured. Luckily OP isn't in SA as unregistered & uninsured is more like $1800, in comparison to $2000 for the 5 offences.

      Edit - should mention I don't know how this transfers to other states but I'd imagine it's the same if you pay for rego and CTP at the same time

      • bobbified on 19/04/2024 - 16:50

        Basically trying to reduce the chances of someone being involved in an incident where one of the parties has expired CTP insurance.

        In NSW, there's a 'nominal defendant' scheme that all CTP insurers contribute to. The claim will be managed by a single insurer, but the final payout amount is split between insurers. It's used for when someone is injured in a motor vehicle incident and the party at-fault cannot be identified (such as someone who's left an oil spill on the road) or they're uninsured. That way, anyone injured still has coverage. The uninsured vehicle at fault doesn't just get away scot-free though. Sometimes (not all the time) the insurers will try to recover the amounts from the driver.

        I live in Victoria now, but I don't know the inner workings of the TAC scheme they have here.

        • Ricktheroller on 21/04/2024 - 01:41

          Yeah have to say I've always wondered what happens here when an uninsured party is involved, if this is where the victims of crime levy is used as a general money pool to immediately pay for the uninsured damage (which is then recovered through the courts system).

          • bobbified on 21/04/2024 - 11:52

            @Ricktheroller: The nominal defendant scheme isn't the same as victims of crime compensation. They're actually two different things.

            Seems like SA (going by your profile) have the nominal defendant scheme too.

            btw, they're for personal injury only, not for property damage,

  • Z126 on 17/04/2024 - 18:22
    -1

    You could argue you never received the initial notice and if you have a good track record of paying you might be able to be let off with a warning. Unlikely but happened to friend of mine. He genuinely didn’t receive the notice and was given a warning.

    • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 18:31
      +2

      haha a 'good track record of paying' isn't necessarily a good thing in this case. It means that the person has received multiple fines (which means multiple offences)!

      • Z126 on 17/04/2024 - 20:04

        I may not have been clear. I am referring to the notice to pay the registration.

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/04/2024 - 21:02

    If Denis could get that printer fixed, he'd be all over this.

    • pharkurnell on 18/04/2024 - 11:57
      +1

      …. its the vibe…

  • blitz on 17/04/2024 - 21:19
    +1

    OP, think about it. If you could only get fined once for driving an unregistered vehicle, then no one would register their car because it would be cheaper to just cop the fine.

  • jason101 on 17/04/2024 - 22:31

    Was E really necessary in this circumstance? This is the kind of thing that makes decent folk hate police.

    • sneijder on 18/04/2024 - 11:22

      According to the RWC guy it is supposed for stolen plate, but somewhere down the line the cop realized it can apply to such scenario perfectly and there you go.

  • screensaver on 18/04/2024 - 02:51

    Catching unregistered cars is one of their major sources of revenue. They scan number plates when you are not aware. This time its your turn to pay. Driving is a privilege, not a right

  • holdenmg on 18/04/2024 - 04:28

    Before you moved or relocated did you put in place a Redir?
    https://auspost.com.au/receiving/manage-your-mail/redirect-h…

    This allows ALL mail to be forwarded and for AusPost to notify selected providers (like insurers, government departments, energy providers and telcos) of your new address.

    Had you signed up for reminders?
    My e-notices and e-reminders
    https://www.service.transport.qld.gov.au/ecorrespondencepref…

    • sandman20104159 on 18/04/2024 - 08:25

      well if the dude that lived in my old place has anything to say, i still got all his rego and fines and still get his super notices after 5 years. i used to write RTS and post it back, but after a year i just throw it in the bin.

  • serpserpserp on 18/04/2024 - 07:25

    Doesn't everyone get reminders to pay rego via email and sms these days? I haven't been sent a paper reminder in years

    • sandman20104159 on 18/04/2024 - 08:24
      +1

      yeah thats what i thought. seriously some people.

  • bazingaa on 18/04/2024 - 07:43

    so did not receive rego renew notice resulting

    I never get these by post. All VICRoads communications are by post and they send renew notice like 1.5 month before end date.

  • sandman20104159 on 18/04/2024 - 08:23

    how in this day and age of email notification you go unreg and unpaid. and how does one not realise this!?

  • AngusD on 18/04/2024 - 08:26

    Different occasions are different offences, so unfortunately you're screwed.

    I remember years ago reading a story in the news about some guy who was working on his motorbike. Every time he tweaked it a bit he'd take it for a run around the block to try it out, then tweak it some more, ride around the block to test it again etc. Turns out there was a speed camera there and he got done like a half dozen times in one afternoon. Life is cruel.

  • AdosHouse on 18/04/2024 - 09:04

    So you got the fines in the mail, which go to the same address that your rego renewal goes to? But you didn't get them?

  • payless69 on 18/04/2024 - 09:17

    QLD transport placed my old plates into my hands.
    Later issued me a fine for $123 for being in possession of unlicensed plates.
    I emailed them but they said it will take 6 months to release promised information under FOI.
    Of course I did not pay that fine, still have a total of 5 plates they handed to me.
    So my drivers license got suspended by sper, was asked to pay it off with community work, applied for it but got rejected because of savings after giving me pay rates: $30/hr for cacausian people and $100 / hr for first nations people.
    Now I got another suspension on top of an existing suspension.
    It is all in a day in Queensland……

    • johnno07 on 19/04/2024 - 23:27

      fine for $123
      …
      was asked to pay it off with community work

      What in the world are you on about?

  • Joey2scoops on 18/04/2024 - 09:29
    +1

    It is not the responsibility of your State to remind you to pay your bills. 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 18/04/2024 - 11:10

    Personally, I would go to court. Own your end of it, but certainly argue the point that you were unaware of the first fine, and that you feel it is reasonable to pay the three you received, but you never received the original fine.

    Accept that you should have changed your address immediately in moving, and are now very aware of the importance of doing so.

    Magistrates are human. They understand reasonable human mistakes. If you were pulled over twice and told twice, that’s different- but the first was some sort of automated thing. There is. In telling where in the chain the delivery of that fine went wrong.

    It will also help if you have a good driving history too.

    • Morphio25 on 18/04/2024 - 12:18

      Magistrates don't have the power to dismiss a charge. They can only find you guilty or not guilty after a trial, or sentence you if you plead guilty. It'd require the prosecutor to withdraw the charge.

  • johnfuller on 18/04/2024 - 11:19
    -3

    contest it, take it to court, plead guilty and tell them you already got fined for the offence and this is a duplicate, they will side with you and you'll only pay once

    • Morphio25 on 18/04/2024 - 12:16
      -1

      Wrong. The facts of charge will state the two different offences happened on different dates and times.

      • johnfuller on 18/04/2024 - 17:24
        -1

        incorrect sir, the police officer fined you and sent you on your way so you could get home, if he was not allowed to drive the vehicle, he would have been told to stop and get it towed, permission to drive on the roads was granted, he should have not received another fine.

        • Morphio25 on 18/04/2024 - 20:47
          -1

          The way I interpret OP's post is that the interaction with the police officer occurred AFTER he'd already received fines for the same offences on a different date (but didn't receive due to the address issue).

          If it is the case the offences occurred on separate dates then he absolutely deserves to be fined twice.

          If the offences occurred on the same date and they were even a few hours apart then yes, I'd agree that there's grounds to dispute one set of fines based on the fact the police officer allowed OP to continue driving.

          Speaking of unregistered vehicles, there's a guy with a big 4WD that he always leaves on the street each night. I noticed the other night it was two flat tyres and tonight when I searched the rego found it was unregistered. Guess who's calling the cops to report it tomorrow morning…this guy!

  • billy72 on 18/04/2024 - 11:32

    Actually, that cop was nice enough to allow you to drive home.
    Other cops just give you the ticket and tell you not to drive home then pretend to go away but secretly follow you to give you another ticket.
    LOL.

  • Morphio25 on 18/04/2024 - 12:16

    In your post you stated that the first time you were driving and the second time your wife was driving.

    These are therefore two separate offices and will be charged as such.

    Even if both times had been you driving they are still separate offences because they happened at different times or on different days.

  • jonkvh on 18/04/2024 - 12:35

    Lucky you weren't in SA. It's $7,500 per offence.

    • Morphio25 on 18/04/2024 - 20:29

      No it's not.

      • jonkvh on 18/04/2024 - 21:16

        It's the Maximum.

        • Morphio25 on 19/04/2024 - 03:40

          When's the last time you ever saw someone get the maximum penalty for literally any offence in court, least of all a driving matter?

  • pencilhead on 18/04/2024 - 13:23

    You can write a letter explaining what happened and begging forgiveness.
    I got fined for not paying rego in similar situation. Wrote a letter explaining what happened and told them I had set up extra notifications (email / calender reminders etc) to ensure it would happen again.
    My fine was waived.

    • payless69 on 18/04/2024 - 14:36
      -2

      Not in QLD but you can get a first nations girlfriend and get a free job that pays $100 /hr to pay it off. No actual work having to be provided, just attendance!

      • johnno07 on 19/04/2024 - 23:29

        Get let out of the old person's home again?

  • ribze1 on 18/04/2024 - 15:37

    Ignorance is never an accuse when it comes to the law. NSW did away with the rego stickers ages ago, but i still know my rego expires on 26 June.

  • johnfuller on 18/04/2024 - 17:24
    -1

    the police officer fined you and sent you on your way so you could get home, if he was not allowed to drive the vehicle, he would have been told to stop and get it towed, permission to drive on the roads was granted, he should have not received another fine.

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