Got Fined for Same Offence Twice, Chance to Contest It?

sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 13:58

I forgot to update address, and so did not receive rego renew notice resulting our car being de-registered.
Got 2 fines (Can't remember the exact fine and name)
A: 371 Driving un-registered car
B: 611 Driving un-insured car
But I did not know the fine because they were sent to old address until I was pulled over by a cop.

I thought the cop was nice explaining what's going on and allow us to drive back to our home, until he sent us 3 more fines later
C: 371 Driving un-registered car
D: 611 Driving un-insured car
E: 123 Possession of unregistered car plate

C,D are exactly the same offense as A,B, except 2 were in my name and the other 2 were my wife.

I know it is my fault. I already started payment of A and B and prepared to pay E, is there any chances to contest C D? The notice says to contact the police station but not sure they would act nice. I submitted an online enquiry form but nothing come back. What's left is stand in the court….?

Thanks

Poll Options

  • 38
    Take it to the cop shop, they can withdraw it
  • 18
    Take it to the court, you might win
  • 220
    No chance. You can't win the system
Automotive

Comments

  • apu on 17/04/2024 - 14:02
    +30

    Are they the same offence at the exact same date/time (i.e. relate to the same event)? Or are these different events? If different events, they are classified as separate offences.

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:19
      +2

      Different date

      • Dumax on 17/04/2024 - 14:24
        +5

        So who actually issued the fines for the first one? It sounds like your wife may have been fined initially (the ones that were sent to a previous address) - possibly by something like Automated number plate recognition cameras, and then you were pulled over and fined again at a later date.

      • barge-in hunter on 17/04/2024 - 14:24
        +42

        Unfortunately that means it’s a different offence.

        Otherwise, I’d always be driving between 5 & 15kms over the speed limit - because I got a speeding fine for it once

        • Sammy2000 on 18/04/2024 - 10:36
          +2

          "But officer, I already paid that fine."

          • Rosace on 18/04/2024 - 12:57
            +1

            @Sammy2000: Got that fine covered already :D

          • D0OMZDAYZ on 23/04/2024 - 20:31

            @Sammy2000: “Will you look at those morons? I paid my taxes over a year ago!”

      • joka on 17/04/2024 - 15:21
        +13

        So you got fined again because you were caught on the road again.

        Tomorrows post: “sped past a fixed camera ten times in a row over ten days and got fined ten times. Can I contest it?”

        Just learn.

        • HelpMeiCantSee on 18/04/2024 - 10:59
          +5

          Actually, you can contest it. It has been done before successfully- the gist is they were reasonably unaware of the camera and that they were speeding until they were notified by the fine in the mail. All but one fine was struck off. A particular case had in excess of 10 infringements, and all but the first were cancelled. The magistrates comments were along the lines of the offender did not have a fair chance to adjust his behaviour and not reoffend due to the significant delay between offence and notification/infringement.

          Which highlights the problem with cameras, they do nothing to address the behaviour until well after the fact.

          • belongsinforums on 18/04/2024 - 15:58
            +1

            @HelpMeiCantSee: If you don't notice the extremely bright flash then you're not focused on driving safely. Also if you can't read speed limit signs then you shouldn't be driving

            • HelpMeiCantSee on 22/04/2024 - 19:34

              @belongsinforums: Many modern speed cameras no longer flash- they use infrared and high res cameras.

              Though you raise a very good point- there are indeed many, far too many drivers on our roads who have no place being there. Removing said drivers would reduce the road toll and insurance issues, as well as negate the need for speed cameras.

              Anyway, the point I was making is that speed cameras are ineffective in every measure except revenue raising.

              • belongsinforums on 22/04/2024 - 20:03

                @HelpMeiCantSee: Once bitten twice shy kinda works. What alternative would you suggest?

                • HelpMeiCantSee on 02/05/2024 - 09:38

                  @belongsinforums: Education. Making it much, much harder to get a licence in the first place. Actively removing people from the road who lack the necessary skills. Mandatory retesting at 5 year minimums for a start.

                  Active enforcement of all road rules, not just the easy pickings slogan pushers. Especially on highways (looking at you “keep left unless overtaking”).

                  • belongsinforums on 02/05/2024 - 11:10

                    @HelpMeiCantSee: Speed and alcohol are huge factors in accidents so it makes sense why those two are targetted so much. I agree with strict testing and enforcing other road rules too

                    • HelpMeiCantSee on 08/05/2024 - 21:20

                      @belongsinforums: Alcohol yes, speed much less so. Higher speed collisions have more energy, thereby increasing injuries, but there still isn’t validated research that speed itself increases the rate of accidents (as opposed to recklessness). In any case, other jurisdictions have shown that with appropriate licensing and enforcement, very high speeds can indeed be safe.

                      Speed is an easy metric to quantify and therefore enforce. Which in turn generates revenue. Much less revenue would be collected if drivers were adequately skilled to begin with.

                      Alcohol consumption does drastically increase risk of “misadventure” once consumed beyond a certain point. I feel we have set the bar at a reasonable level on this front.

      • HeWhoKnows on 18/04/2024 - 07:57
        -1

        Then your post is INCORRECT!
        As apu explained above.
        best to close it off

  • Iwantthebestprice on 17/04/2024 - 14:06
    +17

    I doubt it, you are responsible for keeping your registration up to date, it’s also your responsibility to update your address at VicRoads, it’s actually an offence to not update your address within 14 days of moving. I would say you’re sweet out of luck because anything you say the cop will just say it’s on you. You could take it to court but you better have a damn good reason for the magistrate as to why you didn’t update your address or pay your rego on time.

  • geekcohen on 17/04/2024 - 14:09

    What state?

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:20
      +1

      QLD

      • geekcohen on 17/04/2024 - 14:26
        +2

        https://www.service.transport.qld.gov.au/renewregistration/p…

        Looks a little behind than VIC. We get text messages, its all online, they did away with paper/mail notifications and moved to mainly online.

        • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:28
          +2

          Then I find out you can opt-int for an email notification.
          If you did not opt-in then it will be mail.

        • CommuterPolluter on 17/04/2024 - 20:17
          +3

          Not true.

          Here in VIC my car was unregistered for most of last year as no reminder texts or emails sent out, I moved, and forgot about my rego. Many others online have had same issue. Luckily never got pulled over.

          • 2esc on 18/04/2024 - 09:12
            +2

            @CommuterPolluter: Same here didnt receive reminder texts that vicroads said they would sent. I now write the rego dates down on my fridge calender.

            They wont go back to it but the rego sticker on the windscreen i preferred.

            • geekcohen on 18/04/2024 - 10:06
              +1

              @2esc: @2esc @CommuterPolluter Never had a problem with my texts and/or emails.

              Anyway, one of those things I guess.

            • Krankite on 19/04/2024 - 08:47
              +1

              @2esc: You can just print your own sticker and put it on the windscreen if you prefer. I've written my rego month on the back of my toll tag to remind me.

        • noslappers on 21/04/2024 - 09:04

          I think its retarded and would fight it, if they dont email / text you / call you and as we dont have physical reg stickers its pretty easy to forget, what annoys me more if for example you dont pay it and happy to leave the car unregistered why when you do pay it does it not start from the date paid! I can pause my Gym membership but not my car reg for a car locked in my garage while im overseas for 6 months!

      • pwnd on 17/04/2024 - 19:51
        +7

        Speaking from my experience dealing with the traffic department at QPS, if you told them you received the fine twice because you forgot to update address, they would just send you a further fine for failing to update your address on your license.

        • SimAus007 on 18/04/2024 - 07:16
          -1

          *Licence.
          Other than North America ;)

  • Dollar General on 17/04/2024 - 14:09
    +5

    Dog ate my homework excuse probably your best defence

    • nobro25 on 18/04/2024 - 12:18

      One Dog multiple homework. According to OP that dog is only Liable for one homework, not all the other ones.

    • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 14:25
      +21

      Its not the same offence if youve driven on two occasions.

        • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 14:31
          +2

          Im not a lwayer. Maybe you could request one be withdrawn becasue you werent given the opportunity to adress the situation, but if the mail fine has been delivered some time ago thats on you for not updating your address soon enough. Once the mail has been delivered, you are considered to have been notified.

          If the mail fine is still being processed and not delivered yet, youve got good cause to ask for it to be withdrawn

        • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 17:42
          +2

          Not sure about QLD, but what you've said is true in VIC.

          You can ask for the second and subsequent infringements to be withdrawn for <10km/h over the limit in the same (camera) location/area over a few days to give the driver an opportunity to 'correct their mistake'. It also applies to unregistered vehicle offences too.

          But it's at their discretion and OP has said that his offences were a whole month apart, which is "slightly" different to a few days. OP could probably argue that it went to an old address, but it's also an offence to not update your address within 10-14 days (or whatever it is) after relocating - although that would probably be cheaper than the unregistered vehicle fines!

          • hydration station on 17/04/2024 - 18:42

            @bobbified: OP didn't mention it has been 1 month when I commented so yeah he is done for, he worded it as if it was the same cop that gave both tickets

            • bobbified on 17/04/2024 - 19:57

              @hydration station: Yeh, he only mentioned it later.

              Not sure why everyone's still negging your comments. Things could be different in QLD, i guess.

              • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 08:16
                +1

                @bobbified: Because they are so incorrect. Double jeopardy doesn't mean a mass murder can only be charged for 1st crime.

                A friend recently did a weekend road trip and got 5 fines, some of them from the same speed trap. To him it was 1 road trip. To the police, it was numerous occasions of speeding. He had to pay them all.
                edit: in QLD

                • bobbified on 18/04/2024 - 10:57

                  @SlickMick: Yes, agree he's used the 'double jeopardy' term incorrectly, but the point he's brought up about the possibility of waiving the second and subsequent fines is correct (in Vic anyway)..

        • hazzad on 18/04/2024 - 07:27
          +1

          Why would they withdraw a fine for repeat offences? I mean speeding is a human issue 99.9% of the time. The choice is taken by the driver. Sure we make mistakes but if you speed through that same speed camera several times, you are making the choice/not seeing the speed sign over and over. You deserve to be fined several times. I know there is always the situation where we make mistakes ie. forget you are in a speed zone when stopped at lights or get distracted. But for the most part, as the driver your responsible for adhering to road rules. You break those rules, you get fined.

          • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 08:22

            @hazzad: It's harsh. Is there any limit to how many camera the can plant? e.g. a ticket every 5 metres.
            But I don't have a problem with it. I just don't speed.

            Aim: Stop speeding.
            Goal Achieved?: I do not understand why people still speed. Police must be scratching their head why speed cameras haven't stopped speeding.

            • HelpMeiCantSee on 18/04/2024 - 11:03
              +1

              @SlickMick: Maybe because speed cameras and a similar devices have been proven time and time again in study after study to be ineffective at their stated goal. They do raise revenue well, but do little to adjust driver behaviour. It’s just that the easy money is irresistible

              • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 13:41

                @HelpMeiCantSee: Only because people are willing to give their money away. I'm surprised anyone here would speed.
                I would just keep increasing the fines. Taxing tobacco did an excellent job of reducing smoking. Fines just aren't high enough to curb speeding.

                • Bruceflix on 19/04/2024 - 09:44

                  @SlickMick: Taxing tobacco did an excellent job in introducing black market tobacco stores and the subsequent extorsion, fire bombings, murder associated with it.

                  • SlickMick on 19/04/2024 - 10:09

                    @Bruceflix: But they achieved goal of reducing lung cancer patients in hospitals.

                    With all the money they rake in from exorbitant speeding fines they'll be able to fund more police to wipe out the black market stores.

    • KangaDrew on 17/04/2024 - 14:57
      +13

      Tell me you know nothing about double jeopardy laws without telling me you know nothing about double jeopardy laws.

    • Poor Ass on 17/04/2024 - 16:13
      +4

      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa

    • brendanm on 17/04/2024 - 18:06
      +1

      Lmao.

    • RolandWaites on 17/04/2024 - 21:20
      +4

      Double jeopardy doesn't protect you from being tried and punished twice for two identical offences though

    • nobro25 on 18/04/2024 - 12:20

      So one murder down the road and then another murder 500m down the road. Only the first murder counts because it's the same road within a few minutes of each other. By your logic.

  • AustriaBargain on 17/04/2024 - 14:17
    +27

    Double jeopardy; you can't be tried for the same crime twice. That means you never have to pay rego for the rest of your life.

    • Sye on 17/04/2024 - 14:25
      +16

      This one simple trick the government doesn't want you to know. May also include free accommodation.

    • Bruceflix on 19/04/2024 - 09:46

      Only applicable if you are 'traveling' and not driving…

  • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:18
    +14

    So wait, TLDR

    You were pulled over and received 3 fines for driving an unregistered car - went to old address

    You knowingly continued to drive said unregistered car and were pulled over and fined again on a later date

    And your defence is "I haven't received the fine in the mail therefore i thought it was fine?"

    NGL but this sounds pretty open and shut.
    Just because you haven't received the formal fine doesn't mean you can keep driving the car unregistered, i believe this is self incrimination.

    Geez

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:24
      +1

      A and B was not a pull over. I didn't know that happened at all until meeting the cop that issued C,D,E.

      • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:24

        So how did they fine you?

        • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:29
          +1

          Send me infringement notices into the mailbox

          • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:40

            @sneijder: But how did they fine you in the first place, as in was it detected on a camera or in person.
            I.e. did you have knowledge that they fined you.

            • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:42

              @Drakesy: I don't know. It could be camera or a hiding cop that didn't pull me over.

              • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:42

                @sneijder: How much time between fines was there.

                • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:43

                  @Drakesy: about 1 month

                  • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:43
                    +24

                    @sneijder: YOU DROVE AN UNREGISTERED CAR AROUND FOR A MONTH!?!?!?

                    I'd argue adequate time had passed between the first offence and second offence to rule this as two separate offences. You can't get fined for driving unregistered and continue to drive a year later unregistered and say oh i've already been fined for this so it doesn't count.

                    sorry not going to get much sympathy from the judge.

                      • Drakesy on 17/04/2024 - 14:49
                        +14

                        @sneijder:

                        If i know the car was unregistered I wouldn't have driven….

                        I'm sorry that's not a valid defence in court.
                        They'll have little sympathy for you unfortunately, say you hit and paralysed someone, who would've covered their medical bills?

                      • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 08:28
                        -1

                        @sneijder: I don't know why you're being downvoted. (Other than some can't read and assumed you knew of first fines.)

                        I feel for you. No rego sticker anymore to give you a chance of noticing.

                        However, despite it sucking, it is the law so you'll have to pay.

                        • CoreArchitect on 18/04/2024 - 08:58
                          +4

                          @SlickMick: Errr. I feel for the OP as well. But he is clearly in the wrong here and should pay out of his nose not just because "it's the law".

                          He moved and didn't change his rego address? What? Who does that? Utilities, internet, car related shit like license and registration are the 1st things you change… You also put a mail redirection in. None of that shit happened…

                          • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 09:05

                            @CoreArchitect: Totally agree that OP has to pay. I just don't agree that it is a neggable offense to forget to change address. I've done the same. Having to change addresses every time I move is the bane of my life. I'm so looking forward to the death of snail mail.

                        • magic8ballgag on 18/04/2024 - 12:16

                          @SlickMick:

                          No rego sticker anymore to give you a chance of noticing.

                          I'm not sure about other states, but VicRoads send you both emails and text messages to notify you of expiring/expired vehicle registration.

            • Krankite on 19/04/2024 - 08:51

              @Drakesy: QLD recently ok'd the use of cameras for rego checks.

    • Fredfloresjr on 17/04/2024 - 14:30

      I am really sure that this was really what happened.

      OP get caught, sat in his car for 15 minutes and drove again and get caught again.

      100%

  • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 14:28
    +2

    I think the only way youll get out of one is if you paid the rego on the spot when pulled over - which appears you havent.

    It also depends how long its been out of rego and the time between the two offences though.

    Was the mail fine long before you got pulled over?

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:30
      -2

      I don't think the cop will process the rego payment on the spot…..

      about 1 month

      • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 14:34
        +3

        The cop doesnt process the rego on the spot. You ask if you pay it online now and show that its paid online and maybe you wont get the fine.

        You also should not drive away in an unreg car if youre caught as you couod be caught again, j less you are driving to get an inspection or lay registration and can prove it. Cant drive home.

        • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:35

          The cop explicitly said give us 1 hour to drive back home.

          • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 14:38
            +5

            @sneijder: He was fining you for driving unreg before you got pulled over. You got a second ticket because it was long enough after the mail one issued that you should have organised rego. Cop isnt interested that you hadnt got your mail.

            You could probably have been fined for not changing your adress too. Normally its like 14 days before you must changs adress.

          • SlickMick on 18/04/2024 - 08:31
            +1

            @sneijder: Oh, were you not expecting the 2nd set of fines? My take is that the cop was always going to fine you again for the offense, but doing you a favour letting you drive home unregistered instead of having to get a tow.

    • Drpepper666 on 17/04/2024 - 14:56
      +11

      Cops doing the right thing. Get a grip

    • JimmyF on 17/04/2024 - 15:29
      +6

      Then you find he's issued THREE more fines for the same offence of failing to update your address.

      OP was getting those fines regardless…

      The cop was being nice letting them drive home, rather than having them park the car and getting it towed home why they walked home.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/04/2024 - 15:31
      +5

      But if police behaved like they were there to protect our interests

      But the police were there to protect our interests, that is the interests of every other road user who may have been involved in an accident with an unregistered and uninsured driver, i.e. O.P..

  • Sye on 17/04/2024 - 14:49
    +2

    You should've shown the cop your premium OzBargain membership badge. Gives you diplomatic immunity.

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:50

      I haven't got that status yet

      • Ozbar Gain on 17/04/2024 - 15:14
        +21

        Or did you forget to renew?

        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/04/2024 - 15:32
          +2

          Thanks for asking. Cheers.

        • brendanm on 17/04/2024 - 18:09
          +3

          Renewal notice went to the old address 😔

  • trustnoone on 17/04/2024 - 14:53

    How did you get the first two fines? Were they from a camera? Were you not stopped and told about the rego issue in the first instance before the fine?

    • sneijder on 17/04/2024 - 14:55

      I don't know. It could be camera or a hiding cop that didn't pull me over.

      • trustnoone on 17/04/2024 - 15:11

        I'm just some armchair guy (not a lawyer) maybe you can ask them for evidence/details of the first fine, it might help you contest it in the first instance or at least let you know where you stand.
        There are some things I've heard of in NSW to ease fine issues, such as writing part of it off or putting fines together to reduce them. I think there is specific eligibility requirements though. For QLD I couldn't find anything.

      • Euphemistic on 17/04/2024 - 15:42
        +2

        It was a camera. Cops pull you over to issue the fine if theyve been hiding in bushes.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2024 - 14:56

    E: 123 Possession of unregistered car plate

    Didn't even know this was a thing… Why did OP not get this item twice also if the offences were the same?

    • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2024 - 15:17

      Maybe it was within the 30 day grace period to reregister?

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