About to Embark on Owner Builder Reno

vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:20

Morning brains trust.

Big 4 bank, high stress, mortgage paying gig and I'm going higher stress, zero paying (career break or quit) gig as owner builder for my PPOR renovation: 1st floor addition and rear extension. It'll be a complete gut and redo.

I figured it's a zero sum game because I could either go with a full service builder and cop the 20-30% builders mark up, or I could do this myself and pick up a few life skills along the way.

I've got views on both sides of the fence. People who say it's feasible and good challenge, others (who are either builders themselves or risk averse that say dont do it, especially when it comes to remediating sub standard works). Looking to see ozbargain's andectotes, do's or don'ts.

Side notes: I plan to be on site and on the tools everyday. Weekly vlogging and budget tracking to help others in my position do the same, maybe you'll see me on The Block next year. Poll to see how batsh*t crazy I am . Let's goooooo!

Poll Options expired

  • 91
    Yay - just do it
  • 28
    Maybe - need to see the detailed plan of attack
  • 160
    Nay - goodluck, don't come back crying when sh*t hits the fan
Home & Garden

Comments

  • Tee Rex Arms on 26/03/2024 - 09:21
    +13

    Oh dear

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:22
      -2

      Tell me more

      • sauce2k on 27/03/2024 - 14:19
        +2

        r you Viet OP? All Viet Dads DIY themselves lol

        • mrvaluepack on 28/03/2024 - 06:06

          Nah they have extended family members who help them do it.

          • twotwotwo on 28/03/2024 - 20:27
            +1

            @mrvaluepack: knew a guy that used some Viet family members who were 'legit' builders and were going to do it for cost. They had no ABN and when asked me about claiming deductions looking at receipts, just bunnings receipts and they charged him 800 dollars for labour. All cash in hand. god damn face palm right there.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 26/03/2024 - 09:28
    +7

    This is something I am considering doing too. I look forward to watching the progress. Good luck.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:33
      +3

      I've got my own reservation with going owner builder. I have seen for myself some of the shonky contractor work and delays (and no shows), but I do have a good network of people. This reno is on the bigger/costly end, but I feel like that's part of the challenge

  • altomic on 26/03/2024 - 09:37
    +4

    Obviously- find good tradies to the specialist stuff e.g. sparky, plumber.

    Ones that you can work with who you can ask "how much prep work can i do so that you can get in and out as fast as possible?"

    A friend doing his reno ran all the electrical cabling (and meticulously labelled it) and the sparky came in and quickly tested the wiring to ensure it was going where it was labelled and then wired to the fuse box, and then did all the switches. Saved $$$

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:43
      +1

      Oh nice. Plumbing I have sorted. Sparky is definitely a weak point in the plan.

      I have been following some stuff on home automation and cabling. I feel like I can definitely run the internet cabling for each room. It's a great tip

      • 1st-Amendment on 26/03/2024 - 12:04
        +1

        I have been following some stuff on home automation and cabling. I feel like I can definitely run the internet cabling for each room.

        Yeah it's not rocket science. I run my own cables then just have the sparky come around and inspect, test and sign-off. If you have half a brain and watch some tutorials there's no reason that you can't do most of it yourself.

        • NMC on 29/03/2024 - 00:36

          In Australia you have to be certified, even to run data cable

          • 1st-Amendment on 29/03/2024 - 09:13
            +1

            @NMC:

            In Australia you have to be certified, even to run data cable

            Cool story.

          • Eeples on 29/03/2024 - 10:15

            @NMC: Surely you could run the cables, then get an electrician to certify it?

            I mean you don’t need to tell the electrician who did the cabling work.

  • JimB on 26/03/2024 - 09:38
    +2

    Have you renovated before? e.g. bathroom, kitchen, etc?

    If you can take a career break, then it's feasible.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:50
      -1

      Have done an Ikea kitchen before with demo and partial build. Contractors did all the fitting and finishing.

      Hired contractors (one flare / hi pages) for decking and other odds and ends.

      Yeah definitely taking time off work. I know I can't keep the day job and run this project concurrently

      • JimB on 26/03/2024 - 09:53
        +18

        I'm a little worried that this project may be a little over your head if the ikea kitchen is the only hands on experience you have.

        "1st floor addition and rear extension" is not an easy first project for an OB. It's much easier to build a new house from scratch (I've done this before).

        You really need to learn how to read structural plans. Alternatively you should ask the engineer who designs the engineering plans to come on site be on standby for site visit (and pay them accordingly).

        Having said that, you won't know until you're thrown in the deep end.

        • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 12:05
          +1

          Yes 100% on the engineering and stormwater plans. I had to dive into this and picked up a few errors and things I would have done differently on the plans before submitting for CDC.

          But different ball game when it comes to the actual build.

        • Freitag on 28/03/2024 - 13:42

          much easier building a new house from scratch as an owner builder? I'm sure it's easier if hiring a builder to do it, but as an owner builder… I'd only take on the rear extension.

          • JimB on 28/03/2024 - 13:46
            +4

            @Freitag: Read again- as an OB, a new house is easier than 1st floor addition.

            open up the roof.. you don't know what can of worms you're opening, plus you gotta protect the existing house with the elements. At least with a new house, it's a known quantity.

            rear extension is easier than new house.

      • Stewardo on 26/03/2024 - 13:20
        +9

        If it takes 12 months and your unemployed wouldn’t the 30% markup become a bit of a mute point?

  • blldzd on 26/03/2024 - 09:42
    +4

    Unless you're planning to monetise the vlogging part (and do it well), I would be cautious of how much time it takes to move the camera(s) / microphone(s) / video editing etc. Obviously don't want to stop any community content but you'd be trying to do two (very difficult) full-time jobs at once.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 09:56
      -2

      Oooo you're on the money! Aiming 1 video per week and definitely wanted the monetise the vlogging - even if it's cents or dollars. I do my family holiday and friends/family wedding edits for the love and fun. I can pump out a video in about half a day. Have a friend that runs a fairly successful fishing channel, definitely leaning on him for some help.

      • JimB on 26/03/2024 - 09:59
        +10

        realistically you won't have the energy to do both.

        If you have a half a day spare, that time could be better spent on researching materials, fittings, getting quotes, speaking to trades, site clean up, buying materials etc.

        • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 12:07

          Fair point. At least this is easy to plan for a d easy to drop if it becomes too time consuming.

          Maybe I'll hire my newphew to do the edits haha

          • JakeyJooJoo on 28/03/2024 - 23:25

            @vietbargain: You don't know what you don't know. The amount of research you'll be doing is huge.
            Taking on the work you're doing with so little experience is a huge job but I commend you for doing it and expect you'll be good for it, attitude is hugely important.

            I reckon you need to fully ditch the idea of doing any editing or video work. Focus on the job at hand. If you really want it recorded, just outsource it completely.

  • djsweet on 26/03/2024 - 09:45
    +1

    Why not. Sounds like a good challenge. Would love to do this myself one day.

  • m a c9 on 26/03/2024 - 10:04
    +7

    Whatever time line you've allowed, 1.5x it.

    Whatever budget you've allowed, add 30-50% on top

    Whatever negative health effects you are expecting, triple it.

    Should be fine then.

    Getting it done shouldn't be an issue - you'll get it done sooner or later, just be wary of costs to rectify defects down the line that might hit your bank. Other than that good luck, it'll be a long rollercoaster ride.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 10:54

      Should be fine then.

      Too easy!

      Jokes aside are you speaking from experience, or at least seeing OB fails?

      • m a c9 on 26/03/2024 - 11:15
        +7

        Coming from experience. Spent the last ~10 years in construction industry both on site and in the office. No joke the top 2 lines items are serious advice lol

  • Sal in SA on 26/03/2024 - 10:05
    +3

    All for pushing oneself to the unknown - jumping head long is really how most really find what they are capable of - and even if failure, it is still an experiance you have / can share and knowledge you will have gained - far to many always play it safe and never truly find themselves.

  • Sleeqb7 on 26/03/2024 - 10:14
    +2

    Sounds like a questionable idea, but I support it.
    It would be a great learning experience, however you might end up with an uninhabitable home if you stuff it up enough.

    Just one of life's little challenges.

  • jv on 26/03/2024 - 10:20

    I'm going higher stress,

    Try yoga.

  • xfiledavid on 26/03/2024 - 10:23
    +3

    I did it, key was getting a good carpenter that will work with you.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 12:10

      This was my first thing to understand. Most of the chippies I've enquired with are looking to manage the entire build, few are wanting to do until lock up.

      I've got two in the running that will work with me, but haven't made a decision

  • Benoffie on 26/03/2024 - 10:31
    +9

    No, for a multitude of reasons.

    Background - I have a family of "dads" like this and it rarely ever ended well. Some places are still half finished after 20+ years and they're in their 70s.

    I'm in the middle of a cost plus build and semi managing it. That alone is virtually a full-time job. And while I have a few years of an architecture degree from back in the day under my belt, I am in no way up to speed with the BCA, council regs, all of state planning etc (I try, but my brain simply can't hold it all).

    Time - I'm currently 18 months down this 80% unemployed rabbit hole. Probably another 6 months to go.

    If you are willing to not work, then I would be looking at sub-contracting at a min. You cannot do all the jobs, you're simply not qualified, and you don't have the manpower. What should take 2 years will blow out to 5+ because you're a one-man team.

    There are a few issues with sub-contracting - you will have zero builder's insurance. Meaning you will rely on each subbie to stay in business and fix their stuff ups over the next 25 years. Good luck. You have to chase them constantly. And you have to have the knowledge to judge whether their work is crap or not.

    Look, people poo poo builder's all the time and I understand why (certainly for these spec home builders). But a good master builder should not be like that. And while they will cost you 20%, that's so you don't have to carry all that knowledge and responsibility.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 12:02
      -3

      Appreciate the insight, especially given your background.

      Two years to build is not an option, I've given myself 12 months to complete.

      The demolish and new structurals make me most nervous (obviously) so the need to get the right experts.

      • 1st-Amendment on 26/03/2024 - 12:09
        +9

        Two years to build is not an option, I've given myself 12 months to complete.

        I'm all for DIY, but be realistic about time frames. A pro will take 6 months minimum for a job like this (a friend of mine just did a similar job with using one of specialist builders and it took a year, there's not much chance of a novice completing something like this in 12 months.

      • Benoffie on 26/03/2024 - 13:36
        +7

        To give you a ballpark on how it's been for me:

        Reno is maybe 60sqm add on, no second story, nothing crazy

        • Council was easy 3 months with multiple changes
        • Engineering was another 3 months
        • Glazing atm just past its due date and they're saying might be another 4 weeks. That'll be about 3 months
        • Cement is no longer on the day or next day delivery - you have to book weeks in advance for a pour
        • Timber isn't too bad if it's not crazy and you have access to wholesalers
        • Trades - all running on weeks for bookings (assuming going direct)
        • Kitchens/joinery are at 6 month delays
        • Benchtops are at 3-4 months (I'm still waiting)

        I'm not saying it to put you off. Just saying, I think a sit down with a professional should be your next point.

        • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 19:50

          Appreciate the breakdown. Big reality check especially on the kitchen/joinery. If you don't mind me asking, was it a specific item like custom benchtop or a tradie specific thing? I would have thought that most of the joinery is readily available.

          • Benoffie on 26/03/2024 - 21:05

            @vietbargain: Not talking Ikea stuff, custom made. Benchtops are marble. But anything that requires a stonemason is that backed up atm, assuming you can get what you want (the low/zero silica change over is coming shortly so stocks are on run outs)

      • gromit on 27/03/2024 - 13:12

        12 months seems a little unrealistic, What you are proposing is at least as lengthy as a new build, if everything goes perfectly you might make that deadline but a single delay of materials, a sick tradie or tradie not turning up for even a couple of days can have serious knockon effects that translate into weeks or even months due to rescheduling.

      • drfuzzy on 29/03/2024 - 19:34

        You are asking for trouble.
        I doubt this will end well

  • EFC94 on 26/03/2024 - 11:03
    +2

    I think the answer to this also depends on the kind of person you are as well. Do you have much experience with doing practical tasks like this previously? There's a big difference between owning a drill and using it to screw in a few things around the house over the last 10 years vs completing a full home reno.

    Also be aware that electrical works will require an electrician and certain aspects of the plumbing will require the same. Further to that, do you know how to understand the building plans and product documentation to ensure the products you are using are being installed to engineers and manufacturers specifications?

    Theres a lot more to it than meets the eye.

  • Drakesy on 26/03/2024 - 11:25
    +3

    Navigating the plethora of planning approvals, Building codes and standards is a minefield in this day and age let alone insurance being unlikely to insure it. I mean go for it if you're ok with running the gauntlet without insurance.

    You'll likely need a builder to sign off on it and next to none will if you're an owner builder without a license, registration or experience.

    Notice how the block calls on a whole lot of tradies who are experienced in their area? The couples don't do any of the structural, plumbing or electrical work, they're pretty much glorified painters and interior decorators.

    TBH it'll be more pain than it's worth and you'll get to the end thinking why didn't i just pay the extra.

  • eek on 26/03/2024 - 11:27
    +2

    You're going to enjoy the process! Do you have any sort of knowledge or experience with construction/building standards whether hands on or theoretical? I did a DIY renovation man years ago to a single storey timber lowset house. Take down internal structural wall, new foundations, extend portion of house, build new laundry, new ensuite, reconfigure room layouts and build a 20sqm deck from the foundation up to roofing and guttering. Did most of the work myself and had a few trades in to do plumbing and partial electrical. Learned A LOT through the process. Have a background in structural engineering and wife is in architecture so have a decent amount of knowledge on structural engineering and BCA (NCC) requirements.

    Would have easily been a $100k+ renovation 6 years ago, but costed me a small fraction of that - just materials and my time. I was still working full time, mortgage stress, but didn't have kids back then.

  • TurboTortoise on 26/03/2024 - 12:17
    +3

    I think you can do it. I have done similar. What I discovered was it took a lot of pre planning and chasing to get all materials on site for sub contractors and trades. Eg to get say 3 quotes to the right spec for doors and windows or timber flooring and then making sure it was delivered to site on time, Some of the items are long lead time and it was very important to be very specific about the spec. Surprisingly electrical and plumbing whilst critical was easier if you got a good tradie. Identify who will do the certifying early and also be aware what certificates you need to collect along the way for final certification.

    • netjock on 26/03/2024 - 13:18
      -1

      OP doesn't realise how builders go under even with a 20 - 30% mark up!

      Probably wish they kept their day job at the end of the reno.

  • Euphemistic on 26/03/2024 - 12:32
    +1

    1. Only attempt if you are confident and competent on tools. Otherwise, hire a builder/chippy and be their labour at least initially.

    2. Ita gonna take longer and cost more than you think.

    3. Dont expect to make money out of your vlog. Do expect it to take a lot of time to video properly. If you do want to do it well, you'll need an offsides to help with camera.

    I did a major reno on our house. Was a big step up from previous minor renovations. Im competent with tools and figured i could do it. Took about 2 years while working full time when i thought it woukd take about a year. Only hired professionals to install skylight windows and for electrical (pretty minor electrical). Saved a lot of money, but cost a lot more time. I did get a huge amount of satisfaction out of it.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 17:44

      I did get a huge amount of satisfaction out of it.

      Money aside, my this is my other motivation. I like planning, I like designing, seeing a good reno.

      • Euphemistic on 26/03/2024 - 19:06

        this is my other motivation. I like planning, I like designing, seeing a good reno.

        Planning and designing is quite different to doing. I learned a few tricks AFTER my major reno. Unfortunately its left a couple of items that would have been done to a better standard by an experienced tradie.

        However, being able to watch youtube clips and being part of a reno forum (thats since moved) really increased my knowledge and helped with things like plastering. The third room i did is much better than the first!

  • Ashless on 26/03/2024 - 12:46
    +4

    I would stick to what you are good at (big 4 banking) and focus on finding a good reliable builder (check references!) that lets you be as hands on you like. I did OB a few years ago and getting quality trades was an issue. No tradie wanted a no-repeat job, each one complained about the prior trade's work, many no-shows and you end up overpaying to get someone in just to get it done. I was also hands on, but it's a log slog. Consider your mental health and that of your family. Your time is better spent earning $ than cleaning bricks.

    • sprocketoctopus on 27/03/2024 - 10:01
      +5

      "No tradie wanted a no-repeat job, each one complained about the prior trade's work, many no-shows and you end up overpaying to get someone in just to get it done."

      This. And this one:

      "Whatever time line you've allowed, 1.5x it.

      Whatever budget you've allowed, add 30-50% on top

      Whatever negative health effects you are expecting, triple it."

      I was in the building industry and experienced a few Owner builders. Just getting the previous trade before me to come in and fix there F*/ups was a nightmare for owner. Let alone everything else.

      Also good luck finding a reputable Licenced Sparky allowing you to "run" cables. As an A Grade I wouldn't. You have to remember, that if I get audited, or the electrical Inspector (if you require one, if it's Victoria you probably will - that is if you are working on "prescribed" installation work, if I assume you are moving/replacing your Fused Overhead Connection Box) picks something up, it's my licence on the line.

      Just a suggestion: Why don't you just leave it to the builder, but do the 'easy' stuff yourself on the weekends? Like Painting, Tiling, Security/data (ahem, you need ACMA registration), minor fixing, keeping the site clean, etc? You'll still save a bomb!

  • netjock on 26/03/2024 - 13:17
    +9

    I plan to be on site and on the tools everyday

    No you won't

    My dad was a builder and did carpentry, plastering, painting and concreting. I've helped odds and ends and had to be point man on reading plans and working with architects.

    It is a lot different if you are on tools every day. It is a physical job. You'll probably be at physio within a week if you are not careful and ease into it.

  • mskeggs on 26/03/2024 - 15:00
    +10

    What will you do in 12 months when the build is 40% complete and you have run out of time and money?

    The answer to this is the answer to the whole question.
    If you say, I'll swing the extra $100k from the mortgage offset and get a builder to finish it if it comes to this - then have a crack.

    If you say, it can't come to this because I would be out of time and resources - then that answers the question that you probably shouldn't start down this path.

    It is super sad when you see the half finished building site go to auction because they ran out of cash and the stress killed the relationship.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 17:25

      Can't argue, you've got a point. 40% sounds like a frame with no roof lol.

      Money and cost-save is big driver in the decision, but I accept it's short-sighted and high risk.

      Do I have a $100k buffer? Yes, but obviously not endless.

      • mskeggs on 26/03/2024 - 17:35

        I mean, I wish you luck and hope it works out, but if you can't accommodate the worst case you need to be realistic.
        It would really suck to have things go badly wrong.

  • Muselibar on 26/03/2024 - 15:55

    My advice:

    • Don't work with tradies who don't give you a clear price/quote. There are obvious exceptions to this as some things have unknows.
      But for specifics tasks a skilled and experienced professional should know the variables/time/cost and should price accordingly and not charge you extra if things go wrong or they just charge whatever they can get away with at the end. Also, if someone comes to do an onsite quote and doesn't give you a price on the spot or follow-up text/email, don't work with them, even if they 'seem nice and honest', most likely they will rip you off. I learnt this the hard way.

    • Somethings are very expensive (i.e. plumbing). Either don't touch the plumbing or accept that it's going to be expensive.

    • Somethings are very time consuming (i.e. painting). Either accept that or don't try and do it yourself.

    -Everything takes longer and costs more than you think. Don't try and be clever and 'budget' yourself into debt.

    • The outside/garden can wait.

    • Don't get into argument with tradies like you are colleagues. Treat them with respect, but they work for you, not the other way around.

    • Never accept any chatter from trades about about how that's 'not their job' and this or that task is the responsibility of another trade. You are paying them and you have to hold them to account. They work for you. If this happens and the trades are onsite together, tell them to sort it out together or get them on loud speaker and make sure things are sorted so they can't weasel out of things. This is the tradies favorite excuse, especially for sloppy work. Don't take their word for it.

    • Don't worry too much about mess. Clean up yourself when you can as you go and do a proper clean at the end.

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 17:17

      Great practical advice, especially the "not their job" - I can definitely how people will telfon responsibility to someone else.

      Thank you!

      • Rahonui on 27/03/2024 - 18:33

        Most of this is pretty bad advice actually. If you follow all of this, prepare to go through multiple trades, wasting many days of work, blowing the completion day out by months once all the delays compound and affect other trades

  • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 17:31
    +2

    Ozb, thanks for all the positive and negative feedback! Suggestions always welcome. There's definitely alot of reality kicking in, but still keen.

    Hahah I'll definitely keep this post updated.

    • Muselibar on 27/03/2024 - 09:14

      Also, sometimes choosing finishes can be really difficult/overwhelming.
      Some people really like/enjoy choosing tiles, carpet, paint, etc. But I found it overwhelming.

      My advice, don't overthink it. Choose something, get a sample, if you like it just buy it and move on. You aren't gonna be thinking about the 1000 shades of white paint you could have got once the house is painted.
      And you don't always have to pay a premium (often the value isn't there) so don't get carried away.
      So don't get the cheapest carpet, but also probably not necessary to get the absolute top of the range carpet. At the end, you walk on it, drop food on it, house is to be lived in, so get stuff that is robust and not a showpiece.

      Also, try and avoid white/light tiles, grout, kitchen splash back, carpet. I got white tiles for the kitchen splash back, looks nice and fresh, but after cooking it's an absolute mess and shows up every spec of food/dirt.

  • cocomelon on 26/03/2024 - 17:40

    Oh no.. are you really sure this is what you want to do? There is no turning back.. or it will be costly. I get it working with tradies a lot more stressful when you can do it yourself. Best of luck

    • vietbargain on 26/03/2024 - 18:41

      I'm gonna do detailed planning! I've still got some time before I pull the trigger, or get cold feet.

  • TEER3X on 26/03/2024 - 17:50
    +1

    Good luck.

    Hopefully you have lots of support when/if crap hits the fan. Better yet, hopefully you make some dough from the videos and/or actually end up on the block.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 26/03/2024 - 19:09
    +10

    I figured it's a zero sum game because I could either go with a full service builder and cop the 20-30% builders mark up, or I could do this myself and pick up a few life skills along the way.

    It's not a "markup". You are paying for them to do the work, you're paying an expert to do something for you.

    others (who are either builders themselves or risk averse that say dont do it, especially when it comes to remediating sub standard works)

    This should be a big red flag for you. If someone who is a builder is saying not to do it, then maybe it's not a good sign.

    I plan to be on site and on the tools everyday.

    NOPE.

    Would you suddenly commit to running 15km each and every day for three months, starting tomorrow? you're going to be taking weeks off within a month.

    You're not doing a kitchen reno and installing IKEA, you are adding structural space to a building. If I was to ever buy your house I would run away after the inspectors tell me all the dodgy stuff you did because you didn't know what you were doing.

    I would bet good money that if you do go ahead and do this, within 3 months you will be getting tradies to come in and fix your issues and finish it up, at more cost.

    Doing this stuff isn't just looking up youtube videos and figuring it out, it's a skilled trade to do all of this work.

    Think about it this way. You work at the big-4, would you say that someone who is a tradie could come in and do one of your most recent big projects with a few youtube videos under their belt?
    :gets popcorn:

  • miwahni on 26/03/2024 - 22:40
    +1

    I previously worked for a bank that would fund owner-builds - the biggest issues were customers running out of money, not buying things in the correct order (really important if you're not using your own cash; when you're looking for the next progress payment release, the valuer will NOT include the purchase price of items bought but not yet installed eg the 50sqm of Italian marble tiles sitting in your shed while the build is only at frame stage) and generally not realising exactly how many nails they needed. Sounds dumb but seriously this was an issue with a couple of people who didn't get proper estimates done.

    Anyway good luck, you're braver than I am!

  • 2esc on 27/03/2024 - 09:58

    Still use your trades as needed but do all the demo work yourself is another option. Depends how handy you are and only be realistic as to your ability.

  • LFO on 27/03/2024 - 10:26
    +1

    Few times I tried doing minimal renovations and it was exhausting and frustrating.

    Exhausting because of that permanent feeling I'm never going to finish.
    Frustrating because the final work is never up to my initial expectations and every little "mishap" is there yelling at me for eternity …

    Someone else's mishaps are usually not that evident, mainly because are minimal and hardly visible. And you are busy enjoying life to nitpick their work.
    Not the case when you remember exactly when and why your mishaps happen.

    May be as a fun hobby build (mud-bricks BBQ/retreat cottage?) but not for my everyday home.

    • Bren20 on 28/03/2024 - 07:46
      +1

      Slightly crooked cornice, a lip on some tiles, a bit of silicone you can't paint over, etc. if someone else did the job you'll never notice, but if you do it you can't not see it.

      • Euphemistic on 28/03/2024 - 08:56

        Noone else will notice it. You can look at it two ways:
        1. Minor blemish in an otherwise successful DIY job. Part of the character.
        2. A screw up that needs fixing, which requires effort and time.

        Both of those depends on your attitude and outlook on life. Personally i look at the overall job with satisfaction and only occasionally get reminded of one of my stuff ups, but dont see the need to rectify most of them becasue they are minor and largely not noticed by anyone but someone who is inspecting the work for defects.

  • Rockets84 on 27/03/2024 - 11:11

    Not sure which state you're in but a tip from someone who previously did a owner builder renovation on a house that we bought, while we lived in our other owned property, check the land tax laws if you technically own two properties at the same time. We completed our renovation "too quick" (it was nearly a year long process) and got slugged a rather large land tax bill. If we'd moved into the new house something like 6 weeks later we would have avoided the tax. This was 8 years ago, so I don't remember the exact detail and it was pretty absurd.

  • Odin on 27/03/2024 - 12:40
    -4

    Do it.

    This country has a complete aversion to diy despite the popularity of crap like the block

    There's also a severe knowledge gap about really basic building. Even in the industry there is huge legacy ignorance

    • gromit on 27/03/2024 - 13:27
      +2

      because in Australia DIY is bloody hard, ignoring all the strict regulations and license requirements just getting reliable tradies to show up and/or correct work afterwards can be a nightmare. I had tiling done last year, that 1 week job took them nearly 4 months which in turn delayed other work. crap like the block at least they have all the tradies locked in with them. DIY is extremely hard and not cost effective unless you have the contacts, licenses and knowledge.

      • Odin on 27/03/2024 - 17:42

        Yeah, it is hard.

        But paying other people to do it won't make it better.

        The more you do yourself the better off you are.

        • gromit on 27/03/2024 - 18:07
          +1

          no it won't make it better, but it can make the whole thing cheaper and faster to complete. If you can stick to cleaning up, maybe some painting then sure but the reality is as soon as you take on scheduling all the tradies yourself you are up shit creek without a paddle as sure as the sun will rise in the east one of them will screw up your schedule costing you a lot of money and time. House I am currently doing minor work to for sale, the builder organised the sparky, plumber, painter, carpentry and carpeting all to be done in a 3 week period (which happens to be over tomorrow) and he is finishing spot on time as it is in his interest to keep all the tradies in line. Try doing that yourself and you will be lucky to finish the job in 3 months.

  • Vind1cator on 27/03/2024 - 14:07
    +2

    If a builder said to you he was going to do your job for year or two what advice would you give to them?

    It's kind of crazy we think we can just hop into a career that people have gone to school for and spent years learning to do.

    Of the people I've known who have done their own project management of building jobs they said it was extremely stressful and they didn't really save much money. Just knowing good tradies who will do what they say they will do and on time is half the value of paying a professional.

    My advice is to find an expert that you trust to do a proper job of it and spend your focus on getting better at your current skills. Unless of course, you plan on making property development your full-time career.

    • Euphemistic on 27/03/2024 - 14:53
      +1

      Everyone is different. Some people get a kick out of learning something completely new rather than focussing on one thing forever. Its not all about making top dollar from your current job.

      Besides that, there are significant cash savinga to be made if you can do stuff yourself, especially for the next job.

      I was horrified when talking to my neighbpur about replacing our fence. He indicated that he does nothing around the house and calls a handyman for everything. "Cant even hang a picture". I was able to replace the fence for under 1/2 the going rate.

      • Vind1cator on 30/03/2024 - 13:29

        I totally understand your sentiment. I'm a tech-minded person although I've learned to do my own car servicing and generally do as much fixing/repairs because I enjoy learning. I think a lot of people just bite off more than they can chew with renovations because they overestimate the amount of skill required. There is a big difference from doing the books for the local cricket club to thinking you can do the accounting role at a bank.

        • Euphemistic on 30/03/2024 - 18:31

          I think a lot of people just bite off more than they can chew with renovations because they overestimate the amount of skill required

          Totally agree with that. It took me quite a few smaller projects at previous properties before diving into a renovation involving moving walls to reconfigure rooms.

  • cuteseal on 27/03/2024 - 14:11
    +3

    If it all goes pear shaped, and you have a half-done build, don't expect another builder to come and pick up where you have left off.
    Most hate finishing other people's work and would rather tear it all down and start again. Either that or they will mark it up exorbitantly.

    Also please make sure you get SiteInspections to come through once you are done!

    • gromit on 27/03/2024 - 14:25
      +1

      amusingly was talking to the builder fixing a house for sale for me just the other day. He said exactly that, he won't touch a half built house from any of the bust builders or from home builders gone wrong as he just isn't willing to take on the liability risk unless they let him start from scratch.

    • whyisave on 27/03/2024 - 23:55
      +1

      please make sure you get SiteInspections

      Do you know how much he charges ?

      I want a quote for the non-Vision Pro goggles service, ha

  • xrayed giraffe on 27/03/2024 - 14:19

    Watch a few seasons of Grand Designs and work out if you plan is a good idea https://iview.abc.net.au/show/grand-designs

  • CBass4 on 27/03/2024 - 14:29

    What about licensing, insurance and sign offs?
    These are the primary areas where builders take risk?

  • Bottom G on 27/03/2024 - 14:56

    We're looking to do the same as well in a few years time - but do a full knock down rebuild.

    Already got some handy skills doing reno's for the property & any work that needs a licenced person or will be too large of a scale to do we can contract out. Save on the builder's costs & their lack of care

  • PeelThis on 27/03/2024 - 16:44

    I'm all for having a go but don't underestimate how long this will actually take and bite off more than you can chew, especially if you plan on learning as you go.
    I would suggest starting with one room or the rear extension and see how you find it before commiting to the whole project.
    If you get trades in you can save some costs if you do the demo and removal, and could even do the painting, grouting etc which are some of the easier tasks and what I did for our bathroom reno.
    For reference it still took on average 2 trades per day for 3 weeks to complete our bathroom with me doing the above tasks.
    It would easily have taken me 3 months+ to do the same myself learning as I go and would have needed a few tools and the end result wouldn't have been as good.

  • DiscoJango on 27/03/2024 - 17:22
    +1

    I used to work in construction, and even the site/project managers who used to be trades themselves, with at last 30 + yrs in construction knowledge, didnt want to be an owner builder. I think your massively underestimating the time + stress involved, but give it a try nonetheless!

  • dlakers3peat on 27/03/2024 - 20:24

    I am right in the middle of a full renovation of our kitchen and laundry with new tiles on the ground floor.

    All I can say is, I wish you the best of luck.

  • zzchatom on 27/03/2024 - 20:30
    +1

    Go for it. Everything is available on YouTube anyway 😂 just kidding it will be faster and cheaper if you do some research and find a true professional ie a builder.

    Renovations, buildings are one of the biggest expense you will undertake in a lifetime. Best not gamble it hey.

    I’m too poor to do it twice. Always prioritise quality/time over cost because if you prioritise cost over the other two you will simply pay more in the end.

    :)

  • ripesashimi on 27/03/2024 - 22:09
    -3

    Definitely go for it.

    I was about to say no but if you are Viet, you may already have the experience and know the qualified people to help you. Actually scrap that, you may even do a better job than heaps of shonky builders out there.

  • kaleidoscope on 27/03/2024 - 22:27

    Do post back your experience when you manage to finish it. good luck!

    I personally would not do it as the risks and stress involved is too much to handle for my liking. I'd rather hand it over to a builder with a decent reputation in recent times.

  • FlyingMiffy on 28/03/2024 - 00:57

    If you have the time, it can definitely be a fun and enjoyable experience. You can practically learn everything you need from Youtube etc. (minus the professional indemnity…). I built a 8 x 9m deck complete with deck lighting with a combination of stumps and adjustable footings on a timber subframe over 8-9 weeks (weekends only) and the satisfaction at the end was amazing. Since then, i've added fencing, a gate, landscaping, a shed, etc. So once you get into it, the next job gets easier and easier. Im assuming you will engage engineering for all the weight bearing stuff but otherwise, go for it. Good luck!

  • FittyFitty on 28/03/2024 - 06:58

    Just know there is a limit to DIY…

  • aliceisstupid on 28/03/2024 - 07:02
    +2

    I’m doing owner builder on a knock down, rebuild of the back third of our house including the kitchen, bathroom and laundry. Front part of the house (heritage listed) remains mostly untouched. We started in July last year and we’re nearly done, reckon we will be moving back in next month ie April. Happy to answer any questions

    Plenty of commenters here saying go with a builder don’t realise that 20-25% markup is well into six figures now, it’s a complete joke. Then cost plus for trades of course and don’t forget contingency markup for inflation

    • ihbh on 28/03/2024 - 07:45
      +2

      Plenty of commenters here saying go with a builder don’t realise that 20-25% markup is well into six figures now, it’s a complete joke

      Unless the opportunity cost of the owner builder's time is more - e.g. if this guy was a senior manager in a bank.

      • aliceisstupid on 28/03/2024 - 14:07

        For OP yes but I worked full time while managing the project so no opportunity cost because salary work doesn’t get OT

    • May4th on 28/03/2024 - 09:05
      +1

      Why do people assume the markup will be avoided as an owner builder, that you will be as good at cost management as a specialist builder/PM/architect who's been doing it all their lives at scale ?
      You will make costly mistakes, you will get less competitive pricing, your subcontractors will likely take more timeand charge you more. This will easily eat into your '20-30% margin'

      • Nicolefish on 28/03/2024 - 10:47

        This. Doing owner builder right now for a giant granny flat but have a builder thats a close contact so have used his recommendations for other trades and they have been fantastic. Trades off the street however, in the past have been a nightmare to deal with but maybe thats our location. Expect time delays, lots of dragging on and excuses. If you dont know what to look for, good luck.

        We have done two renos before (complete reno of a run down house that used to be two storeys before a cyclone and our own house) and are pretty experienced with trades and father in law is a carpenter, even so its very time consuming and emotional.

        Im doing this on maternity leave with a newvorn and it is so time consuming but very helpful that im pretty much here everyday. Its fun to have a project. Keeps them on their toes! But yeah expect blowouts cost wise and time wise. Lots of busy taxes as well so get multiple quotes, each will ask different questions so will help you to know what to look for.
        Be up for lots of suprises too if youre doing an extension and you wont get everything you want.
        Make sure you have a good architect/engineer and drafter. We should have done more planning but needed to rush due to change in the ncc and paying for it now! Good luck

      • aliceisstupid on 28/03/2024 - 14:05

        I assume I avoided the markup because I did. We are at the end of the project and have saved the 20% margin. The price was time, not money, as an owner builder. Not saying everyone will have the same success

  • drprox on 28/03/2024 - 07:38

    If you find builders that enjoy that sort of work you'll be fine..probably.
    I'd also consider comparing with the cost of a knockdown rebuild of something relatively basic but modern in layout.

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