Are We Wrong about Cholesterol and Saturated Foods in General?

Jetpck on 09/02/2024 - 10:41
Last edited 09/02/2024 - 11:21

I recently got a blood test done and turns out my cholesterol is too high.

I am in my early 30s. I go to the gym 2 to 3 times a week. Generally eat healthy foods. Don't smoke. I find it hard to justify why my cholesterol is too high.

If any one is interested, my cholesterol results in mmol/L are:

  • Total = 6.7 (too high)
  • Trig = 0.9
  • HDL = 1.6
  • LDL = 4.7 (too high)

GP said my LDL and total cholesterol are too high and I need to watch my diet (eat more wholegrains, fruits, veggies, less meat, less saturated foods, etc).
Edit: I already eat like this. GP couldn't really explain the results and just kind off dismissed it by saying eat even more veggies, even less meat, etc

Everyone I speak to (friends, parents, other doctors) say that high cholesterol (especially LDL) is bad because it results in increase risk of heart disease. I had always thought that having high cholesterol was bad. However, now that my own results came up high I did some research and it seems that high cholesterol is not that bad. A better indicator of increased heart attack risk might be the level of HDL cholesterol (specifically, the Total/HDL Cholesterol ratio).

For example:

Low Carb & Keto: What about Cholesterol?
Your Doctor Is Wrong About Cholesterol
Don’t Worry About “Bad” Cholesterol, Says Dr. Paul Saladino

Going down this rabbit hole, it seems like what we have been taught about in terms of saturated fat is also incorrect. Saturated fat is not as bad as what we have been told.

What is your opinion on saturated fats and cholesterol?
Is the general population's view on saturated fats and cholesterol incorrect?

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • danwylie on 12/02/2024 - 11:45
    +1

    It might be worth it for you to get a more comprehensive cholesterol test that categorises your LDL cholesterol particles by size. There's some studies that suggest that the standard measurement is too broad and lumps people with very small hard LDL particles in with people with larger, fluffier LDL particles that are "less bad". The study I link below is focused on identifying people with "normal" LDL levels who might actually be at greater risk than people with "elevated" LDL levels, but perhaps if you get your levels tested you might find you have more of the "good" kind of LDL.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4313745/

    And here is an example of a testing company that does that sort of test.
    https://www.i-screen.com.au/tests/ldl-blood-test

    I haven't ever done this myself, but I'd like to one day. My mum is in the same boat as you, eats the recommended healthy diet, lean, active, and is constantly being hassled to go on statins by her doctor. Even though there's some research that high cholesterol doesn't increase the risk of cardiovascular issues in older people, https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas…, and even some that suggest that a higher LDL concentration is protective in older women in particular, https://agsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111…, in which case my mother's doctor is trying to prescribe something that could be harmful to her, never mind the side effects of statins.

    I guess the tldr is cholesterol is more complicated than high number bad.

    • maverickjohn on 12/02/2024 - 12:03

      Sometimes familial hypercholesterolemia can't be avoided despite being slowed down by good practices.
      Also "The presented studies suggest that cholesterol levels in late life are not associated with mortality. However, neither study examined the role of cholesterol-lowering medications on cholesterol levels over time and the potential added benefit of reducing cholesterol in those at risk of CVD and related conditions such as dementia and frailty."
      They never said testing the cholesterol is bad. They are saying that high cholesterol doesn't seem to correlate with mortality.
      However there are added benefits of reducing cholesterol in people with cardiovascular disease and dementia risk secondary to high cholesterol

  • Kingfield on 12/02/2024 - 12:10

    I had some interesting results recently as well.

    My Total is actually OK but my Triglycerides in particular were very high:
    - Triglycerides: 2.8 (High)
    - HDL : 1.0 (Low)
    - LDL: 2.3 (OK)
    - Total 4.6 (OK)

    I tried to do research to figure out what the issue is but couldn't find too much. To be fair, I'm not as active as I could be (play sport a couple times a week and that's it) and I do tend to eat pretty junk too. My first plan is just to try do more exercise and lose a little weight (my current weight is not too bad at 83Kg 186cm but I've put on 15kg (mostly fat weight) over the last 10 years) and see whether I can move the results in 6-12 months or so.

    • maverickjohn on 12/02/2024 - 12:13
      +1

      Trigs are normally a biproduct of excess calories.. carbohydrates/sugars are the biggest contributor of trigs being high.

      • Kingfield on 12/02/2024 - 12:15

        Yep, can confirm that I do have a bad sweet tooth. TBH I did have an entire tub of Ben & Jerrys at like 11pm/midnight the night before) - though I fasted until taking the blood test at 12pm the next day. I wonder if that would still mess up my results and worth taking another one? LOL

        • maverickjohn on 12/02/2024 - 12:18
          +1

          repeat one in 3 months.. the act of ketosis from regular fasting (or consume less calories then using) should lower this..

  • Papa Huggies on 12/02/2024 - 12:26

    Need more of a history/ specs. How's your health otherwise? resting heart rate? Weight, height and muscle mass (I add muscle mass cos I hate BMI, but presuming you're mostly normal physique-wise BMI is sufficient)?

    There's lots of factors at play. Firstly, yes GP training isn't as intensive as dietician training in this area (simply the nature of having to know a little bit about everything) so a GP may not be an expert in the topic themselves. However, a lot of people think they're eating healthy when they're not, or eating in moderation when they're not.

    Thirdly it's possible you have a genetic predisposition to retaining HDL/ LDL. See if your parents have a similar thing.

  • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 12:42
    +1

    Thank you all for the comments. I have read through pretty much all of it but havn't had a chance to reply to each one individually because my weekends are quite busy. It has been really interesting to read all the discussions. Rather than reply to each individually, I thought i will post separately.

    Diet

    Some people had asked what my diet looks like. I use an app called myfitnesspal to track all my calories and make sure I stay within my targets for the nutrients.

    Morning - always lite milk with weetbix and clusters. everyday.
    Lunch - rice with chicken or fish
    Evening - beef or chicken, mashed potatoes, veggies. sometimes pasta bake. sometimes spaghetti. sometimes steak with green veggies. sometimes eggs
    Snacks - some of either fruit, peanut butter sandwich, nut bar, or nuts.

    Everything is prepared at home. the chicken is baked in the oven. I don't use any oil. Everything is calorie counted.
    I avoid all sugar because I am at risk for diabetes (my grandpa had it. my dad also). This is the main reason i have used the app for the last few years to measure my calories. I am scared I will also get diabetes. I measure my portions on a kitchen scale.

    One meal per week, i will eat outside (KFC / Kebabs / Nandos / Sushi. Majority of the time it is Nandos). Once a week i might also eat some ice-cream. Again I will use the app to make sure I don't exceed any of my macros (because of my family history with diabetes).

    Only water and coffee for drinks.

    About Cholesterol itself (what I really wanted to find out with this forum post)

    Everyone can agree that high LDL, with high trigs and low HDL, is bad. Nobody is disputing this.

    However, it seems like nobody is completely certain on whether high LDL, within the context of low trigs and high HDL, is bad. I have asked other doctors (other than my GP) about this as well and they are all divided. Some say high LDL is bad. Others say its not bad if you have low trigs and high HDL.

    I personally thing that high LDL, within the context of low trigs and high HDL, is nothing to worry about.

    My Case

    I am very fit and in good shape. Good energy levels. Always played outdoor soccer. Now only do weight training because there is no time anymore for outdoor sports. Not much stress although could use some extra sleep with little kids at home.

    I am now fairly certain I am more genetically predisposed to having high LDLs. This never crossed my mind because nobody else from my family have it. However, as others have pointed out, this can easily still happen without family history.

    Next steps

    While i am not too worried about my test results, I am still happy to make the following changes.

    • Increased cardio in my workout. At the moment, only do this as a 3 to 5 min light warmup.
    • Take a coronary artery calcium scoring. Thanks @JV.
    • Reduce outside food to once every 2 weeks. others might be ok with eating out once a week (or even everyday) but because of my genetics, I can't.
    • Add more veggies to the diet.
    • Do another blood test in 6 months and see the results.

    What I don't want to do immediately:

    • Take medication (such as statin).
    • Eat less meat.
    • drewbytes on 12/02/2024 - 13:14

      You eat really well. My 2c though, I'd change breakfast to whole milk and regular Weetbix.

      I recently had a coronary artery calcium (CAC) test done, score of 0 in my fifties which I was very happy with. My most recent cholesterol test was similar to yours.

      • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 13:18
        +1

        Thanks for sharing. That is good. I think a CAC test is a much better indicator of heart health than cholesterol. The reason I use lite milk is because i don't want to add calories (because of family history of diabetes).

        • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 09:54
          +1

          Lite milk has MORE sugar than whole milk - sugar is the enemy of diabetics ;)

    • skid on 12/02/2024 - 13:18

      Only fault I can see is the cheat meal. Up to you, but I wouldn't be having a cheat meal more than once every 2 months. Fast food like KFC and Nandos, I'd have once or twice a year tops. Within 6 months to a year, you should see the results of cutting this out in blood tests.

      • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 13:22

        I think you are correct. For a normal person, it is probably ok but not for me because of genetics. I want to reduce this by a small margin first to see how much of difference it makes before making bigger changes. Will take another blood test in 6 months.

        • tissue on 12/02/2024 - 14:05
          +2

          Keep in mind due to your age, the buildup in your arteries is likely not calcified yet so don’t be surprised at a score of zero on a CAC. Also note that the calcium score is a good guide, but only looks at the main arteries directly around your heart. Still a good idea but its more of an ‘after the fact’ rather than your blood test which is an indicator of current condition.

          Your approach is what I did to try to see if it was due to diet & exercise or familial – advice from the GP was to try to change and see the effects to see if anything could get it down. After a few years of this though I went onto a statin as couldn’t get it significantly down any other way. Its worth a try though.

          • maverickjohn on 12/02/2024 - 14:39

            @tissue: Correct, calcium score normally measured in a CTCA is calcified deposits of atherosclerosis.. In saying that, the ctca should also show narrowing of arteries, from atherosclerosis, it just may not be calcified (less accurate than an angiogram, but also less invasive)

    • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 13:20

      I also forgot to mention that I also have a protein shake sometime in the day.

    • maverickjohn on 12/02/2024 - 14:42

      You are heading in the right direction buddy, i think the end goal is you just dont dismiss the LDLs as a non concern. Be aware it exists and follow it through, do annual check ups with a cardiologist/gp. (Highly recommend stress echo's every 12 months) a one off CTCA to provide peace of mind, but if chest pain happens its something to request and follow up with your Cardiologist.

    • Hangryuman on 12/02/2024 - 16:27

      'family history with diabetes'

      that may be the clue - insulin converting sugar to energy - or maybe to fat - I forgot

      our bodies are incredibly complex and people can suffer from unknown conditions for years before finding out they have an extremely rare condition

      milady is generally healthier than me, and resisted my suggestion of annual checkups like I get - finally got a blood test which showed high blood calcium - further test showed an overactive parathyroid gland (one of 4 pea-sized glands near the thyroid, two on each side of your throat) - got an operation (scary - neck is 'tiger zone' with major arteries and nerves there) - done - now she no longer has the risk of osteoporosis > hip fracture > virtual death sentence in old age that she inherited from her mother.

    • Aureus on 12/02/2024 - 19:06

      You eat healthier then most people.

      I don't use myfitnesspal, but I assume you can get your daily macro breakdowns from it. Look at your saturated fat and make sure it is less then 10% of total calorie intake. I wouldn't avoid adding good unsaturated fat, but you are probably getting a good amount from the fish and nuts.

      However, it seems like nobody is completely certain on whether high LDL, within the context of low trigs and high HDL, is bad. I have asked other doctors (other than my GP) about this as well and they are all divided. Some say high LDL is bad. Others say its not bad if you have low trigs and high HDL.

      Maybe see if you can get a referral to a cardiologist. From my own research, getting advice from cardiologists and experts in the field high HDL can be predictive of decreased chance of CVD in a population sample, but no causal link has been found. So it may have protective effect, but I would focus on LDL/apoB levels instead. When people are given drugs to increase HDL levels, there is no significant effect on all cause mortality.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103514/

      Good luck with it all.

    • ChupaCabra on 12/02/2024 - 22:33
      +3

      My 2 cents:
      -Change weatbix to oats. Soluble fibre is what you want and if I remember wheatbix doesn't have lots of it. Also I removed milk and just used water.
      -Brown rice or black rice (avoid white rice and white bread)
      -switch mashed potatoes for roast washed baby potatoes with skin on. Fibre is in skin. Also can do this with most veggies like carrots, sweet potato, pumpkin, etc.
      -Try to cut down on cooking with butter and oils. Uncooked olive oil pretty healthy though.

    • mmd on 13/02/2024 - 00:04

      Wowsers, your diet is pretty good.

      Lunch - rice with chicken or fish
      Evening - beef or chicken, mashed potatoes, veggies. sometimes pasta bake. sometimes spaghetti. sometimes steak with green veggies. sometimes eggs

      What type of beef/chicken? chicken breast has the least fat. are you making curries?
      mashed potatoes - are you adding butter or cream?

      • Jetpck on 13/02/2024 - 08:45

        no time to make curries. just oven roast
        i add butter to mashed potatoes yes.

    • icejester on 23/02/2024 - 00:54

      Your breakfast is too carb focused. Add berries, avocado and more protein e.g. egg to breakfast
      Lunch should have vegetables for fibre/prebiotics/trace minerals
      Evening seems good
      Snacks should be between lunch and evening
      No snacking after dinner
      Fast from dinner to breakfast 12+ hours, longer the better

  • DBilton423 on 12/02/2024 - 12:44
    -2

    Do you eat eggs?

    "People who have difficulty controlling their total and LDL cholesterol may also want to be cautious about eating egg yolks "

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/food-features/e…

  • sriver on 12/02/2024 - 13:57
    +2

    While fats have gotten a bad rap in the past this has shifted as sugar and carbs have been the target of more recent health campaigns.

    If your doctor is saying it's too high there's nothing stopping you from going back to your doctor and asking about modifying your diet or exercise regime further and getting another blood test to see what happens (e.g. reduction in red meat or other dietary changes).

    My father had high cholesterol and this appears to be a hereditary thing with the family. He is a principled guy and went to an extreme diet cutting out fat and salt to the point where flavour wasn't a thing. This was not able to stop his cholesterol levels, my father is also an old school guy and would end up suffering a heart attack but not immediately go to the hospital.

    In the end he did end up in hospital and had multiple stents to unblock his arteries, he's fortunate to be happy and healthy now but it's only due to the doctors and cholesterol medication that keeps things in check.

    I suspect I will also require cholesterol medication as I enter advanced years. Main thing to do will be to keep seeing the doctor and getting a blood test once a year to track how things are going (other than trying to live a reasonably health lifestlye).

    Any health advice from youtube or google in general is to be taken with a grain of salt. Your doctor knows you and your history and can set you up with a specialist if required. If your doctor isn't receptive to your concerns you can always ask another GP for a second opinion.

    • Vomo on 12/02/2024 - 21:00
      +1

      This is great advice. Having visited the Victorian Heart Hospital, and seeing how big it is, and the age of patients (a lot of 50s), it’s important to get checked yearly, have a sensible diet and… who knows maybe even yoga and meditation can help reduce stress and lower cholesterol. That’s my plan.

    • oliver-adl on 13/02/2024 - 02:03

      Why would you ask your GP about diet or exercise? It's not really their job or area of expertise at all.

      See a nutritionist about your diet.

      See a PT about your exercise.

    • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 09:56

      Guess how much "nutrition" training a typical doctor or medical specialist gets in med school?

      It's less than a 1 hour lecture ;)

      • sriver on 18/03/2024 - 19:31

        Your GP will be able to refer you onto a dietitian if required, they also know your health history and would advise you if a new diet might miss out on certain nutrients (e.g. vegetarian and potential low iron levels). You can also potentially see a dietician using Medicare if it’s via a GP referral

        • 7ekn00 on 18/03/2024 - 19:42

          News Flash, the ADA (both AU and US) are SPONSORED by Coke, Kellogs, Nestle, etc, so guess what they push?

          Oh, a can of coke and sugar flakes is fine, you just need a "balanced" diet … except, there are ZERO "essential" carbs (but there are essential amino acids and fats)!!

          • sriver on 21/03/2024 - 21:08

            @7ekn00: I hear the concern is that doctors can be influenced by bigger companies but I’ve never been told to use certain brands.

            When I gave a vegetarian diet a go they didn’t tell me to buy anything, we just went over my blood test and I could always do a follow up blood test in case my iron levels were low, at most I could take a multivitamin if I wanted but it wasn’t strictly necessary.

            If you’ve had problems in the past with doctors not listening to your concerns then it would be worthwhile to find another doctor who does.

            • 7ekn00 on 22/03/2024 - 09:19

              @sriver: Doctors are pill vendors, that is all they are taught during their training …

              As for vegetarian, the most dangerous missing component is vitamin B12, it is what drives the iron deficiencies and bone density degradation in plant based diets ;)
              (with low B12, iron and calcium are not even absorbed)

              Should have been having your B12 tested, as it crashes way before iron deficiency manifests :/

              So it seems not even the medical preacher can find a good doctor / dietician …

              • mrdean on 22/03/2024 - 09:23

                @7ekn00:

                (with low B12, iron and calcium are not even absorbed)

                Interesting. I wonder if those with low b12 also show high iron & calcium as a general rule. If so, the low b12 could be interpreted as the bodies attempt at limiting those factors so they don't get to dangerous levels.

  • Brianqpr on 12/02/2024 - 15:03
    +1

    My wife is similar, its just genetic I think with some people. She exercises nearly every day and is careful with what she eats but has had high cholesterol results. Her father is the same.

  • drfuzzy on 12/02/2024 - 15:04

    Why did the OP say nothing about genetics?

    For all we know he/she is Indian or Pakistani with a family history of cholesterol in the double digits

    No amount of diet or exercise will fix crap genetics

    • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 18:13

      There is no family history of high cholesterol. That's why I started to try to find out why I have it. Either way I have concluded that I have bad genetics even when others in my family didn't have it.

  • m0tyrider on 12/02/2024 - 15:35
    -2

    Try doing more cardio, but honestly I am with you on this.

    If your blood pressure is OK - whats the problem?

    Full disclosure, i have no idea what the cholesterol levels mean but do remember reading that it is not 100% fact if these levels effect heart disease. Like with most modern medicine, take it with a grain of salt.

    Pun not intended :)

  • UFO on 12/02/2024 - 16:29
    +1

    "now that my own results came up high I did some research and it seems that high cholesterol is not that bad."

    Well there you go, you have your answer. Don't listen to the doctor or decades of scientific peer reviewed research that say's it's bad… your research says it's good- so all good!

    Come on mate, reading some of your replies here you seem smarter than that.
    You've mentioned a typical day of meals above, but can I ask the cuts of meat you are eating?
    With the chicken is it dark or white. With the red meat is it lean?
    Genetics can definitely come into play, but high cholesterol only comes from too much 'bad fats'… not just genetics (which only exacerbates any excess).

    • Jetpck on 12/02/2024 - 18:22
      +5

      I am not one person disagreeing with all the doctors or decades of scientific peer reviewed research that says cholesterol is bad. What I found is that other doctors are disagreeing with each other. Not just the ones online, but also the ones I have asked personally regarding this. That's why I was confused. I want to listen to the doctors, but which ones are correct?!

      Chicken is always white. Red meat varies, sometimes got some fat in it. Otherwise lean.

  • SpicyStew on 12/02/2024 - 17:25
    +1

    general population is obese why you asking them?

  • NeverBuyRegPrice on 12/02/2024 - 17:49
    +2

    Most doctors and nutritionists are all wrong about Saturated fats, cholesterol, fibre, proteins and carbohydrates.
    I've been doing the carnivore diet since July last year and seen some astonishing changes. I did it mainly to lose weight and lost 32kgs in 3 months. So even though I'm finished with weight loss I decided to continue with the diet.
    If you would like to know more about the carnivore diet and it's effects with cholesterol then look up Anthony Chaffee. He's been on the diet for 10+ years. I think you'll find the info to be quite insightful.
    Long story short. Stay away from carbs and up your intake of fats and proteins from animal sources. Don't worry about high cholesterol.

    • TEER3X on 12/02/2024 - 19:52
      -3

      If you want to live longer, among other things, you almost always need to reduce protein intake.

      • acersaurus on 12/02/2024 - 22:20

        Not necessarily. The major study on low carb high protein diet suggests it may shorten life expectancy by a moderate amount if done over the long term, unless you are also vegetarian. However, the study just shows a correlation not causation. Obese people are more likely to die sooner, and are also the more likely to be on some sort of low carb diet. So it is unclear if high protein, low carb omnivore diets reduce life expectancy, or whether the study just shows that obese people are dying earlier and happen to be on a diet.

        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/low-carb-diet-prot…

    • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 11:35

      Same, going on six years carnivore and have reversed a whole heap of conditions!

      The health benefits have been absolutely amazing ;)

  • Hangryuman on 12/02/2024 - 17:57

    'my cholesterol results in mmol/L are:
    Total = 6.7 (too high)
    Trig = 0.9
    HDL = 1.6
    LDL = 4.7 (too high)    '

    today I saw this NYTimes article - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/well/live/cholesterol-tes… - quoting figures in mg/dL - I found a conversion factor - 'mmol/l × 18.018 = mg/dl' and converted your figures to the closest whole number and got:-

    mmol/l => mg/dL
    Total 6.7 (too high) => 121 (below 200 = healthy)
    Trig 0.9 => 16 (below 150 = healthy)
    HDL 1.6 => 29 (below 40 = DANGEROUS)
    LDL 4.7 (too high) => 85 (below 100 = healthy)

    you can check my calculations, but if correct, that looks kinda different from your OP saying your Total and LDL were too high while your HDL was fine so wha'hey the diddly oh !

  • TEER3X on 12/02/2024 - 19:50

    Do you eat lots of chips?

    Too much sugar could lead to diabetes which could lead to heart problems as well.

    Even if you're not eating junk, you still need to exercise.

  • Something Darkside on 12/02/2024 - 20:38

    I was in your position after your my dad had a stent put in, i got tested high cholesterol. I went on the suggested diet, hard! Did nothing to improve it. Went on statins to get it down, got it just under the limit. Took them for years.

    In the meantime has some inflammation issues and researched diets to help. Went low carb, felt great. Researched some more and found cholesterol isn't bad and the statistics used to justify statins were misleading. I'm now off statins and I'm not worried what my cholesterol levels are anymore.

  • acersaurus on 12/02/2024 - 22:14
    +3

    6.7 total cholesterol is high, but you are potentially not so far from turning it around.

    Mine recently went from 7.0 to 5.2 (healthy) in five months, with no medication. I went on a low carb, vegetarian diet and lost 16kg, which I am continuing. I think it is the combination of weight loss, increased exercise and vegetarianism that all helped. I was previously a meat eater.

  • NEGATIVEVIBESONLY on 12/02/2024 - 23:07
    +3

    291 comments, and no one mention how sunlight can help too.

    Did you know getting sunlight exposure can help reduce your cholesterol / LDL-C levels?

    When it’s exposed to sunlight, our skin makes vitamin D. One theory is that because cholesterol is used in vitamin D synthesis, levels of cholesterol will reduce as more vitamin D is made.

    Just 15 minutes of sun exposure a day - just don't over do it. See the clinical trial article below

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5434721/
    https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/does-sunlight-re…

    • Jetpck on 13/02/2024 - 08:50
      +3

      Wow @NEGATIVEVIBESONLY. I am amazed about this. The ONLY other negative thing in my blood test was a very mild vitamin D deficiency. I didn't even make any connection (neither did my GP but I was told to take vitamin D supplements) which is why I didn't even bother to mention it. Thanks!!

      • Aureus on 13/02/2024 - 10:25

        It is definitely interesting. Of note it seems to only have a very small impact.

        • NEGATIVEVIBESONLY on 13/02/2024 - 15:05
          +1

          think of it like compound interest rate. it makes only small impact on a daily basis - but in the end the difference is enough to put your body out of balance.

      • NEGATIVEVIBESONLY on 13/02/2024 - 14:58
        +1

        what is your Vitamin D level as per your blood test?

        Should be above 50 nmol/L (minimum). But I personally would not take Vitamin D3 supplements and instead go out under the sun (without sunscreen protection) 15 minutes a day topless with shorts (usually between 9.00 - 10.30 or 3.00 - 6.00 pm, I try to avoid when UV peaks).

        Hope this helps and good luck

        • Jetpck on 13/02/2024 - 16:55

          Mine is 37nmol/L

          • NEGATIVEVIBESONLY on 13/02/2024 - 19:09
            +2

            @Jetpck: In my opinion that is low. And could bring on other symptoms like lack of energy, feeling tired after good night sleep, gaining weight, poor sleep, rising cholesterol levels, low libido etc. (not saying it’s going happen for sure- but chances are higher)

            It’s totally up to you to take some Vitamin D3 supplements or not. Regardless I highly suggest you get a bit more sun exposure.

            Don’t underestimate vitamin D3. In fact it’s a hormone not a vitamin. A lack of it can cause a lot of health issues. There a lot of information on this topic on the internet and clinical trials done.

            • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 10:10
              +1

              @NEGATIVEVIBESONLY: Sun has far more benefits than just Vitamin D3 ;) The infrared response also heals tissue

          • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 10:10
            +1

            @Jetpck: That is not mildly low, it's deficient :/

            Eat more animal fat too …

    • Hangryuman on 13/02/2024 - 15:01
      +1

      'Just 15 minutes of sun exposure a day - just don't over do it'

      depends on season - I use a free sunsense app to tell me for my location how long is safe with what level of sunscreen SPF factor, e.g. 3pm Sydney 13/2/24 it says use SPF15 for 30 minutes in the sun 3-330pm now.

      as I am a pale skin and get too many skin cancers (2 recently shaved off currently healing scars) I prefer to get my sun when it's 30 degrees from horizon or less - which I can also get from my free sunposition app - currently showing Sun Height 58 degrees - so I'm avoiding that on a hot summer day. Today 30 degrees looks like around 520pm.

      • NEGATIVEVIBESONLY on 13/02/2024 - 15:06

        100% agree. do whatever it takes to get some sun without burning yourself.

  • oliver-adl on 13/02/2024 - 01:58
    +5

    Are you happy with your physique, fitness, gym performance and improvements over time (if that's your goal)? If you aren't overweight then worrying about a test result like that is probably not necessary.

    I'd find a new GP if one told me to eat less meat and more wholegrains especially. Wholegrains are completely unnecessary in your diet but meat (from quality sources) are essential. You can literally live with minimal or no grains but you won't manage for long with no protein and fats from meat.

    Pretty clear from comments here that most people in Australia and Western countries where obesity is the main health issue simply aren't brave enough to consider that most of the information they believe is correct about what is healthy is probably wrong. Sugar, grains, seed oils, rubbish carbohydrates and other unnecessary calories make up a ton of most peoples intake every day yet people limit their meat intake or their eggs because they're worried about cholesterol and fat. It's ridiculous; protein and fat is literally what made humans evolve to what we are now (allowed us to get more nutrients in to focus on other activities other than eating all day).

    • Jetpck on 13/02/2024 - 09:08
      +1

      I am happy with my fitness and gym performance (improvements over time). Still working on physique but not too worried.

      I totally agree with what you are saying about unnecessary calories from carbs. I mentioned earlier that I have a family history of diabetes. Hence I decided to increase protein and decrease carbs.

      If the majority are correct, and we decrease protein and fat then you are by definition increasing your carb intake (you can't decrease all three or you won't get anything. you have to get enough food from somewhere!). Increase protein/fat and deal with cholesterol or increase carbs and deal with sugar.

  • Yumai on 13/02/2024 - 08:32
    +4

    Worth doing your own research.
    For me personally, I really do think the general public and even practitioners in the field have been misled by studies that took place a 40+ years ago.

    i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study

    The entire US health food guidelines (down here in AU, we copied theirs) is out of date. Every year that goes by, I see the topic becoming more and more controversial.

    I went down the rabbit hole last year and discovered Dr Paul Mason from the University of Sydney who has done a bunch of lectures/talks in this area.
    This lecture in particular is very insightful. He gets into the weeds of the chemistry behind what cholesterol actually does and how it can negatively impact health.

    Learn about how Carbohydates turn LDL molecules "bad" through oxidation processes etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUY_SDhxf4k

    This isn't a health podcast, and it is understandable that people are skeptical of information that gets shared in those.
    Hopefully this is more inviting as the format is in a more traditional Academia setting.

    Saw another comment by: 7ekn00 mentioning Dr Mason.
    Glad his work is getting noticed.

  • ratman on 13/02/2024 - 08:42

    Genetics, im the same. Not much you can do - take some statins.

  • ippybear on 13/02/2024 - 08:57
    +9

    Eeeek, so much misunderstanding here.
    Firstly for those statin lovers - I was on the statin trials in Australia, they nearly destroyed my life. The company who conducted the trials told me to stop taking this medication. I lost all sex drive, nearly cost me my job, as I couldnt stay awake during the working day ( aged 42 ) and left me feeling terrible. People like me were never included in the " successful" results.
    All my family have died of heart disease, my father at 49. I was a young boy agad 14 at the time. Don't you think heart disease would be on my mind. I have only eaten smallish amounts of mixed meats all my life, never eaten many breads pastries or the like. Never smoked or drank much. Just ate boring foods some canned beans, canned meat and veggie stews, some fruit, toast with spreads for brekkie, dammed soy milk etc. The result - at age 67 was a 6 ft 2 , 142kg and like a slug, I had to shop in oversize stores etc. I had a 48" waist.
    Then I bumped into some low carb videos on YouTube, I thought a out it for a few days and one evening, late, I made the switch. I threw half a garbage bin full of carb laden foods out. All the bread, wheat cereals, oats, beans, rice, sugar, honey, in fact anything that had carbs or starches in went out.
    I switched to cheeses, meats, saturated fats, seafood, sugar free drinks, a bit a salad etc.
    The results, three months later I had lost 10 kgs, three months further on, another 10 kgs. I ate more meat, more cheese, more fish, more fats, not more greens.and lost a other 10 kgs. That was 6 years ago now, and no , I haven't gained anymore weight back, Im still the same.
    So Hows my bloodwork. Well I gave taken a very strong interest in this. Its checked ever 3 to 6 months. From very high triglycerides, low hdl and high ldl and high blood pressure I have moved to low triglycerides, high hdl and high ldl, and much lower blood pressure.
    Oh yes, I started going to the gym as well, to get rid of surplus energy
    Friend and neighbours told me - oh your so lucky, special genetics etc until a few of them tried low carb as well, with the same results. So now I take a much greater interest in these matters, and my research shows that the longest living people have high cholesterol levels, low level people die sooner. That ldl levels are irrelevant. The determining factors to long life are High Hdl and Low triglycerides, even Aust govt health websites now point this out.
    Readers, we have all been conned. Conned by big processed food manufacturers and drug companies.
    If you think I'm talking crap, then tell me who wrote the healthy "food pyramid" because thats where all this rubbish healthy grains and carbs talk has come from. Well Its not a health authority, it is the US Dept of Agriculture. Look around you, we have had 50 years of this garbage, now look at the population and tell me that we are in a healthy society.
    Gee, got that off my chest. I'm going for a drive, I live west of Brissy, I'm spending a day on the Sunshine Coast, finishing at Noosa Surf Club with a big meat meal, its a 450 km round trip, I'll be home at 9-00+ pm ish tonight, I'm close to age 74…… I sometimes do it twice a week Think about it !!!

    • Jetpck on 13/02/2024 - 09:16
      +1

      That's very insightful.

      I also have low triglycerides, high HDL and high LDL. Some doctors look at the high LDL and immediately say I should cut meat and diary and eat more wholegrains.

      Other doctors say that because of low triglycerides and high HDL, I have nothing to worry about. It looks like you are firmly in the second category. This is what I personally think is correct as well.

    • mrdean on 13/02/2024 - 09:44

      If you think I'm talking crap, then tell me who wrote the healthy "food pyramid" because thats where all this rubbish healthy grains and carbs talk has come from.

      I do not think you're talking crap at all. But keep in mind grains & carbs have been extensively modified which correlates with the emergence of the food pyramid. Why? Because of industrial advancement (so called). Highly refined (& poisoned) carbs are the problem. Good quality grains, cereals etc are actually beneficial, the problem being that by far the majority of the carbs available to the public today are indeed rubbish.

    • Aureus on 13/02/2024 - 12:10

      Do you think maybe your health issues could have been caused by being morbidly obese with a bad diet?

      If you were following the health advice from decades ago you would have been on a healthy Mediterranean diet. Keto can also be great, especially for people at risk of diabetes. High LDL is a concern and your seemingly high saturated fat diet is increasing your risk.

      No causal link between high HDL and lower chance of CV. Lots of money had been poured in to trying to prove that. That is why you can get prescribed drugs to lower LDL, but not ones to raise HDL.

      • Klogg86 on 13/02/2024 - 14:22
        +1

        There's also no causal link between LDL-C and plaque in your arteries. It's all correlation (no proven/suggested mechanism, etc.)

        • Aureus on 13/02/2024 - 16:38
          -1

          There is a causal link between LDL and atherosclerosis. Google it, it is very definite. I dunno about proven mechanism, but that doesn't seem super important.

          • Klogg86 on 13/02/2024 - 16:42
            +1

            @Aureus: I realise that higher ldlC means higher chance of CVD

            But have a listen to Paul Mason's theory on glycated end product.

          • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 11:44
            -1

            @Aureus: It aint causal, biggest mis-interpretation of all science!

            Just because you drive past a fire and there are firemen there, doesn't mean they STARTED the fire ..

            (HINT: Cholesterol makes up 50% of the cell membrane - don't you think it would be present in damaged cells?!?)

            Dr Paul Masons description of the 5 types of LDL particle is backed by proof (a particle size test): there are 3 normal LDL particles, 1 glycated LDL particle and 1 oxidized particle, the glycated and oxidized particles are "bad" and "sticky" …

  • nomadspartan on 13/02/2024 - 09:48

    Speak to a dietician.

  • pjammies on 13/02/2024 - 13:46
    +4

    Many people who have had chronic health issues and have gone into researching about diet and lifestyle and even trying all the different 'solutions' will learn a lot of what we've been told in mainstream is false. Majority of science and medicine is also always changing and progressing, but keep in mind new research only really surfaces after 10 years, so what many doctors will tell you may be outdated information.

    It helps to stay open minded, and not biased/fixed to one solution. I think having a completely fixed mindset is where things can get dangerous. I've learnt over the last decade what works best for me (still learning) and I imagine lot of what I do would be called 'misinformation'. I've eventually learnt to listen more to my body and see what makes me feel good - we've unfortunately lost this intuition and relied too heavily on pharma and 'quick fixes'.

    • Hangryuman on 13/02/2024 - 15:07
      +1

      'Many people who have had chronic health issues and have gone into researching about diet and lifestyle and even trying all the different 'solutions' will learn a lot of what we've been told in mainstream is false'

      my father was a GP and saw regular patients who would call up all hours of the night getting him out of bed with their chronic health complaints - turned out they were often on 6 or more different medications, any or all of which could interact with each other causing undesired side effects.

      people who've made poor lifestyle choices (like morbid obesity) can like to complain about how doctors are not treating them perfectly when it's like trying to manage a slow-motion car crash which you know is unavoidable, or rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic …

  • Klogg86 on 13/02/2024 - 14:18
    +8

    I will put a few things out there. Many will say "don't trust Youtube idiots,etc. etc.", but the authors below are fully qualified/trained doctors or have significant experience in the field (like Gary Taubes as a health journo for a long time), with studies to backup their ideas

    1) The best marker for health in this area is Triglycerides/HDL:
    https://twitter.com/DrPaulMason/status/1556788795751960576
    (Your markers are good in this area - you generally want < 1.5x Trigylcerides/HDL. Yours is less than 1

    2) Protein (more specifically, the correct amino acid profile) is most important above all. Great discussion with Don Layman:
    https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/
    You'll notice things like eggs are very high in methionine. There is no non-animal source that has a reasonable amount in it (that's to say, you'll need to supplement if you choose a vegan/vegetarian diet). There are other amino acids that you'll miss. Example:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5598028/#:~:tex….

    3) Further on the topic of Peter Attia - he discusses in detail the four horsemen and how to avoid them in his book "Outlive". I don't quite agree with his take on ApoB, as many other prominent people in this field disagree (see Paul Mason's talk on LDL-C and glycated end product - I think it's here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3PuSuyg)

    4) Genetics determine LDL-C levels far more than diet. The ranges vary, but it's suggested <20% of LDL-C is impacted by diet:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9143438/

    5) Not sure my thoughts on this one, but does get you thinking - Paul Mason presents a decent argument here on lower LDL-C correlating with HIGHER all-cause mortality:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkGYyyWR_Gs

    6) Ivor Cummins (The Fat Emperor) also has great content on cardiovascular disease, LDL-C and lipid panels in general.

    7) If you're worried about heart health, check out a Coronary Artery Calcification score. Ivor Cummins is big on this, and has lots of info.

    8) Read the history of Ancel Keys, seed oils, studies into poly/mono unsaturated & saturated fats, etc. I'll let you come to your own conclusions.

    Other authors worth reading:
    - Nina Teicholz
    - Nick Horwitz
    - Gary Taubes

    9) After all this is said and done, exercise is the best thing for you, alongside a reasonable diet (which may change depending on who you ask). Read Peter Attia's stats on All cause mortality when discussing sarcopenia or VO2 max. Very eye opening.

    There's a lot more, and worth the read/listen if you're interested. Needless to say - yes, I think mainstream medicine has this horribly wrong. Correlation between LDL-C and plaque in your arteries is not causation (show me a mechanism). In another example: you can get a Type-2 diabetes patient off their meds (metformin, etc) with a low carb diet - and maintaining that diet would basically put T2D in remission.

    (If anyone else reads this and knows better or can disprove any of the ideas above, please do correct me. I'm not here to pick a side)

    • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 11:55
      +1

      Spot on!

      Not sure if you are up with the latest Nicholas Norwitz (lipid researcher) research, but his pack of Oreo's lowers LDL better than Statin paper suggests all your above info about LDL is actually the CORRECT lipid model:
      https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1989/14/1/73

      • Klogg86 on 14/02/2024 - 12:55

        Nick Norwitz! Apologies, listed his name wrong above.

        The LDL-C experiment with Oreos vs Statins was hilarious. N=1 and all that, but funny nevertheless.

        • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 12:59
          +1

          Indeed, but even with an N = 1, the traditional lipid model can not explain the results :)

  • Eeples on 13/02/2024 - 14:21
    -5

    Eat fish and salad every day for a month.

    Sardines, tuna in spring water, red salmon, pink salmon, fresh fish (from coles), frozen fish, frozen salmon cakes, eat grilled fish and vegetables when out.

    Make salads and pour on olive oil.

    Stop eating eggs during this month.

    Get retested.

    If no change, then ask for a scan of your heart looking for blockages.

    • Klogg86 on 13/02/2024 - 14:23
      +2

      Why no eggs?

    • 7ekn00 on 14/02/2024 - 12:19
      +1

      Imagine the levels of heavy metals in your blood after this regime :/

      Go get a heavy metals panel … you will be surprise how much mercury and lead is in all that …

  • dufflover on 13/02/2024 - 21:02
    -4

    Scientists aren't generally wrong about cholesterol and saturated foods … people just naturally don't want to be the outliers who don't follow the "general" rules ;)

    I'm abnormal too … thankfully on the other end of the scale when it comes to diet vs bloodwork.

    • Klogg86 on 13/02/2024 - 22:48
      +2

      Most things I linked above would suggest otherwise. And most of those are from official US govt websites.

      The over-arching question that shows this - why is it we are getting progressively fatter from the late 70s onward? (We're eating less red meat per capita since then. But we're certainly consuming way more seed oils and glucose)

      • Eeples on 14/02/2024 - 09:51
        -1

        fatter…….healthier…. and longer lived.

        • Klogg86 on 14/02/2024 - 12:56
          +2

          Medicine got better. We're certainly not healthier.

          T2 diabetes up (at same age)
          Cancer rates up (again at same age)
          Obese and morbid obese rates in kids up

          None of these are healthy. We just got better at treating, mostly acute conditions.

          • Eeples on 14/02/2024 - 13:59
            -2

            @Klogg86: We certainly are healthier evidenced by our increased life expectancy.

            Australia 83.2 (2020)
            Australia about 71 (1960)

            So in the last 60 years… we live over 12 years longer. To argue this is due to poorer health is a nonsense.

            • Klogg86 on 14/02/2024 - 14:09

              @Eeples: Depends on your definition of healthier.

              We are healthier because medicine got so much better is my hypothesis. Very few bacterial infections hurt anyone these days. Similarly death from CVD and other chronic conditions has dropped. These all support this users.

              The obesity stats, nor incidence of chronic conditions support the alternative hypothesis.

            • mrdean on 14/02/2024 - 14:12
              +3

              @Eeples: Just because life expectancy has increased by 12 years according to the statistics you've found, does not mean we are "healthier". Healthy means absence of illness or chronic conditions. Go and do your own survey & ask those 75 & over how many prescription medications they are on, & observe their quality of life.

  • Unlimited on 13/02/2024 - 21:02
    -2

    I met someone in Cairns recently and he had the same issue. He went to the doctor and the doctor put him on pills. He managed to find another doctor who suggested to go on a vegan diet. He has done this for 1 year now and has fish once a week. He said that he is nearly off the pills as his cholesterol is nearly back to normal levels.

  • sweetss on 13/02/2024 - 22:39
    -7

    I’m sharing this very good guide on cholesterol that was in the NY Times recently. They talk to specialists and researchers. Do not trust YouTube unless it’s from a reputable academic or organisation, not some chiropractor who pretends he’s a medical doctor.

    High fibre and oats will help with cholesterol.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/well/live/cholesterol-tes…

  • capslock janitor on 14/02/2024 - 12:29

    stop taking anabolic steroids

  • GenerousBuffalo on 14/02/2024 - 17:09

    First and foremost follow your doctor's advice…

    However - interestingly - there has been a growing number of health professionals who are recognising that there doesn't appear to be a link between dietary cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. I recall reading in Andrew Huberman's book Outlive about how the American Heart Foundation's position has shift since earlier publications (from a stance of cholesterol=bad) and now they're following endorsing this position but the medical practitioners are still catching up.

    Link to peer reviewed article:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/

  • mini2 on 14/02/2024 - 17:22

    It's not medical advice, just personal experience.

    I've been in the 6's pretty much forever. Shitty diet, lack of exercise, scary BMI so it's no surprise…

    I started to eat oates, cut out beef for a good 6-9 months and did some exercise (I'm no gym junky); lost a minimal amount of weight, but my cholesterol went down to a more respectable 5.1. I've started adding beef back into my diet and let's see if that will change it.

  • Billbezos on 14/02/2024 - 20:42
    -2

    Of course, they are wrong. They are wrong about almost everything from food to modern medicine.

    • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 15/02/2024 - 13:02

      Take the stupid food pyramid and turn it upside down

  • snoz on 14/02/2024 - 22:44

    Familial hypercholesterolemia is no joke. Most people don't know until they have have a heart attack (or die). Listen to your doctor and see a good endocrinologist. Source: Person with familia hypercholesterolemia.

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