Can a Man Complain about Gender Imbalance and Inequality at Work?

dimes on 26/01/2024 - 23:04
Last edited 27/01/2024 - 13:41 by 1 other user

For context, I work in a state government agency and I've been told my female boss "likes women", which I take to mean she prefers working with women rather than men. So this made me curious and I wanted to see if there was any statistical proof to this. I looked at the internal and external recruitments for June to December 2023 and found that 16/20 successful candidates were women, and 9/10 managers in my office are women.

We also occasionally outsource work where we have a panel of qualified people to choose from, and I heard this boss tell someone that we have to choose a woman next time.

I know for sure if the genders were reversed, women would be complaining and everyone would be up in arms about gender inequality. But as men, can we complain about the same thing when it happens to us, or will we be cast away as whingers and also commit career suicide at the same time?

Education & Work

Comments

      • baldur on 30/01/2024 - 09:51
        +1

        No they don't.

        • UltimateAI on 30/01/2024 - 11:30
          +1

          Can't speak for them all, but I know numerous women who complain \ speak out as such behavior de-values their efforts and they don't want to be tarred with the same brush (ie: viewed as diversity hires when they were hired on merit)

        • Davo1111 on 31/01/2024 - 11:23

          Some do. (And some don't).

          Getting a job or promoted because of your gender is pretty demeaning.

          My coworker won't go to WIM events. The last thing she wants is to be paraded around by the company for bragging rights.

    • Saver Scott on 30/01/2024 - 19:47
      +1

      Sadly, it’s not just your place of work. Heaps or industries and focused on hiring women, minority groups, aboriginals. It’s straight up sexism and racism.

    • frostman on 30/01/2024 - 21:03
      +1

      ironically, the women are given the hot seat only in the corporate world with cosy jobs and armchair responsibilities.
      You don't get to see this wager on promoting women IN THE MINES, Dredging, Digging or Shovelling - weird how the world is shifted.

  • Davo1111 on 30/01/2024 - 02:42
    +3

    Just leave dude. Youre not going to win. Use career progression as the reason

  • skrooge on 30/01/2024 - 07:33
    +1

    DEI = Discriminate, Exclude, Indoctrinate.

  • SydBoy on 30/01/2024 - 07:39

    This all started in NSW after Gladys came to power in my opinion … as all of sudden women KPI started to appear irrespective of their qualification or competency to do the job and many got director roles just to fill the women quota nothing else… ! sad state of affairs and nothing an individual can do in this matter unfortunately.

    • SpainKing on 30/01/2024 - 13:25
      +1

      Gladys should be an inspiration to men and women alike. Much like Scott Morrison, she proved that literally anyone could reach/maintain the highest levels of the Australian government while clearly being inept, corrupt and detrimental to the people you're meant to serve

  • tsu-chan on 30/01/2024 - 07:56
    +1

    Meanwhile… as a female (senior, not in management) with outstanding performance review and only asked for a 5% raise, people are expecting me to fill a lead role within the year that I wrote the job description for because the business need the role. I am pushing for an interview process and if the hiring panel find a better candidate, to take them instead. This thread highlights all my concerns that people are going to criticise females regardless of past history or merit. In my case, I have a fear of being called out for nepotism and favouritism. Consciously, I am putting others wellbeing and success ahead of my own because of their age and their gender to avoid backlash on myself.

    Hoping to talk to professionals to handle the workplace pressure.

    (I’m in IT)

    • SpainKing on 30/01/2024 - 13:34
      +1

      If you can get an interview panel, that's awesome, but it sounds like you might have the skills to move in to that lead role as the best candidate. You wrote the requirements, know the company better than 90% of people getting interviews and likely have the aptitude to learn skills that you may currently be lacking

      An interview panel is a good idea to help dissuade people calling it nepotism/favouritism. Even if they do, proving yourself to be great at the job should shut them up (and if they don't it's probably because they see all women getting hired/promoted as due to diversity laws)

    • FlyingMiffy on 30/01/2024 - 20:48
      +1

      Im in senior management (IT) and have been for some time. As you can see from the comments, its not unusual for others to focus on different aspects of inequality but the key is that the onus is not only on you to manage the perceptions. In a pure business sense, the dilemma can be simplifed to one about $. A direct appointment saves time and money but unhappy people and friction within the team is also a drag on time and money. Simple solve is to take it to an interview process, which is what you are saying. Put it in business case terms for your leader and that should be enough of a nudge.

    • Ughhh on 30/01/2024 - 21:21
      +2

      This thread highlights all my concerns that people are going to criticise females regardless of past history or merit. In my case, I have a fear of being called out for nepotism and favouritism

      There's always going to be jealous people who think you don't deserve it, or that you only got it because you're female, and try to make you feel bad for being offered a job. You've proved that you're an outstanding employee, probably with a good attitude. A new candidate make look good on paper, but may actually have a poor attitude.
      Dont let certain people bring you down or make you feel bad.

  • releasethekr4cken on 30/01/2024 - 09:44

    Who offered this information that's got you so riled up?

    If it's a 3rd party you have no leg to stand on. If it's your boss then go ahead and get riled.

  • baldur on 30/01/2024 - 09:48
    +3

    Its so funny, women get these jobs, men cant find these jobs, and then women start to underestimate/undermine men as they better roles, incomes, titles and they end up with cats and antidepressants and still blaming men for this outcome.
    Not to mention all the heavy, shitty jobs are carried out by men regardless of the promotion of "equality"

  • baldur on 30/01/2024 - 09:50
    +5

    You are misogynist if you have standards or complain about women. But when the women do the same, they have standards, social justice, gender equality etc etc.

  • baldur on 30/01/2024 - 09:54
    +2

    Just define yourself she/them, aboriginal, vegan and problem solved. Play it by the rules.

  • joelmuzz on 30/01/2024 - 10:19

    The govt has a campaign to hit 50/50 gender stats. So even if one office has excessive bias towards females they won't care because it is helping their average.

    They are allowed to bias recruitment to gain more female and Aboriginal employees. They are allowed to admit that bias.

  • Hangryuman on 30/01/2024 - 11:01

    TLDR but a quick suggestion from my years working in bureaucracies

    befriend a boss 2 levels up - who is over the manager you're not happy with

    then have a gentle conversation with the superior raising concerns that the work efficiency or productivity of the manager below them might be suffering due to the way they are behaving - and there is also a legal risk if the company were to be sued for discrimination - a bad loss of reputation that top managers need to be concerned about.

    then leave it at that - and you might find that in the weeks after that - bad manager gets 'moved' elsewhere … ;-)

  • Dack Smith on 30/01/2024 - 14:04
    +1

    You can complain but they’ll just say you are doing gender discrimination and sexist.

    Then everyone will know and you will lose your job

    Better to be a SJW to win at life

  • Dyl on 30/01/2024 - 18:57

    Submit it to HR and expect them to do nothing, just creates a paper trail.

    Adds to a case of mental health injury if one ever came up

  • Saver Scott on 30/01/2024 - 19:42
    +1

    Working a high school and it’s all straight up sexist towards men. Just the first few days back and this is what I’ve had to hear:

    1st day back this year: female coworker says men shouldn’t be allowed to use words to describe women.

    2nd day back: female coworker say men are not allowed to express themselves artistically in any way they want.

    3rd day back: female coworker tells all other teachers boys behave worse than girls.

    Only three days back and this is the shit I’ve heard in the workplace.

    • Davo1111 on 31/01/2024 - 13:01

      1 and 2 are pretty dumb

      3 could be factually correct. Depending on the class.

  • GrueHunter on 30/01/2024 - 20:24

    Can a Man Complain about Gender Imbalance and Inequality at Work?

    Sure. Here's a more interesting question:

    Would any of you complain if 9 out of 10 managers and 16 out of 20 promotions were men?

    • dimes on 31/01/2024 - 10:41

      It would be a serious concern or red flag for me, but I wouldn't complain - just like how the women now are not complaining.

  • FlyingMiffy on 30/01/2024 - 20:37
    -7

    Blah blah blah, everything is unfair. Way back when, sheilas would just be cooking at home, washing the dishes and bringing me my slippers when i get home… oh wait, did i just read your mind OP (and the 50 or so blokes who keep down voting everyone outside their echo chamber)??

  • ovictor on 30/01/2024 - 22:45
    +1

    That's a tough one, because for decades or centuries, men have favoured men at work and we haven't really done much about it until now. But the question is how you do it, and will it hurt other employees in the process. Im a strong believer that where there are equally qualified candidates for a role, a different point of view to a team is a huge advantage, and that can be a different gender, background, experience or even opinion. In saying that, I have seen companies over-leverage this desire to reach 50/50 men to women. In my case, a female candidate was favoured to me in a role and that was enough for me to decide to leave my job, and I wasn't the only male that went through that. Of course, I don't have the insights into the decision making and maybe for what they needed it was the right candidate, but it wasn't the first time this happened. Funny thing is the men that decided to leave their roles were actually big advocates for more diverse hiring, but hey, a company owes nothing to no-one except their bottom dollar line.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 31/01/2024 - 00:04
    -4

    A real man gets on with it and creates his own path.

  • Ulysses31 on 31/01/2024 - 10:59
    +2

    Went for a job recently, interview with the CEO. All went well, she said she'd get the paperwork finalised within the hour, and email it across. Then said "Great interview. I'm really surprised, cos I usually only hire women". I was caught off guard, didn't know what to do/say, and can't sit silent… So I asked with a matching positive tone "oh, why's that. Women are definitely much better at certain aspects, in my experience. Guys have their benefits, too" (cos the role & business is entirely neutral market)… It got real weird, awkward, and quieter over the next minute. And nothing came through. Probably for the best. All a fake interview, in bad faith etc?

  • dontboopthesnoot on 31/01/2024 - 11:21

    Yes you could but what would that achieve?

  • cannedhams on 31/01/2024 - 13:23
    +2

    Also work in government in a female dominated workplace.

    The problem is that forward facing govt employees are dealing with abusive behaviour regularly. A03s at Centrelink in particular are lasting less than 6 months. The attrition rate is worse for women than men bc most women hate being physically stood over. Men who can deal with abuse without losing their temper are basically worth their weight in gold. We don't have enough of them.

    So we have this cohort of valuable mostly male employees who can manage challenging behaviours. But if they don't have promotion opportunities they are not going to hang around forever. And increasingly the senior roles are filled with people who have not come from forward facing roles but instead back office and HR. This creates resentment because the people who work at the coal face complain (justifiably) that the people in charge have no idea what it's like going into work every day. Seriously look at any Centrelink office in a low SES area, it's like the running of the bulls out there.

  • bargainhuntaa on 31/01/2024 - 20:53
    +1

    "Man shall be trained for war and woman for the recreation of the warrior: all else is folly." ~Nietzsche

  • OzzyOzbourne on 31/01/2024 - 22:06
    +1

    You can but you'll find that equality doesn't quite mean what you think it does.

  • BrokenChairs on 01/02/2024 - 00:43

    A couple of things to consider:
    * Your bosses preference towards hiring women is something that has been told to you second hand - not something your boss has told you directly. How valid are your sources? Do they have any reasons to be disgruntled (e.g. not successful for a promotion)
    * Gender of hirings over a 6 month period may not be a great evidence - what was the gender ratio of the candidate pool? What was the gender ratio of high quality/suitable candidates? Is your industry skewed towards women? Were successful candidates completely new hires or were they internal/previous state gov experience?

  • THICKnSLOW on 01/02/2024 - 08:06

    It's not the gender of the coworkers that matter, but the quality of their work.

    Sees 'state government agency'

    go figure

  • dmac on 01/02/2024 - 09:19

    As a white male looking for a career change - what workplaces would be more likely to promote me (or less likely to ignore me because of my penis gender).

    • Davo1111 on 01/02/2024 - 10:30

      Go look up statistics by gender and look for the highest percentage female. That's a good start

    • CheapBrah on 04/02/2024 - 15:18
      +1

      Smaller organisations usually since your capabilities actually matter. Big corporations don't require as much individual ability as there are plenty of overheads and processes and red tape that make it easy to get by even if you don't have the capabilities so it's easier to hire/promote on demographics rather than capabilities.

      I've seen mid sized organisations implement strong DEI hiring/promoting and the whole place is a mess but works okay for big corporations, small organisations usually don't even really try as they'll straight up end up dieing.

  • altitudinous on 01/02/2024 - 10:45
    -1

    Yes, a man can complain. However sexism (and racism) have moved on, white men for instance are now actively discriminated against instead of women. This has happened to me several times in the last decade. So I wouldn't complain, you need to move on without complaining. If you complain you will be fired with a ruined reputation. I moved on silently accepting limited options. Even telling my female friends was a bad idea.

    I now work for myself selling product where my main customers are women.

    I recommend empowering yourself with the knowledge. Women make purchase decisions domestically nowadays. This is why free tv stations, radio stations have a female bias in order to attract female viewers / listeners so as to attract advertising revenue.

    "positive" discrimination is discrimination.

    The circle of life! Sexism and Racism (and other ism's) appear to be a part of the human condition.

  • ShanghaiRocks on 01/02/2024 - 11:37

    I feel for you and you encourage to follow your whistle-blower or complains process based on how you are impacted.

  • krazek on 04/02/2024 - 08:42

    It's no longer acceptable to hire based on merit alone due to DEI. In today's world, we need to hire based on diversity! Even if that means we have a few more plane crashes every year…

  • CheapBrah on 04/02/2024 - 15:15

    I've noticed a lot of recent layoffs in the tech space is like 90% males, and these are big corporations where they've got at least 40% women in tech these days through hiring/promoting women to reach quotas. This is just how it is these days, tough being a man in a traditionally male field in big corporate environment.

    • Ughhh on 04/02/2024 - 17:44
      -3

      Any sources? Most sources seem to disagree with you.

      • CheapBrah on 04/02/2024 - 18:14

        No source, just personal observation. My employer did massive layoffs and a friend's did too, both in tech, both seemed to be almost all men.

        If there is any data out there that actually breaks it down via genders I'm happy to be proven wrong as that's more reliable but I doubt that information is released.

        It's also the logical approach in a world where quotas exist, much easier to hit the quota for proportion of females (or whatever group you're targetting for diversity) by laying off mainly males then it is to get into bidding wars for skilled females when hiring.

      • dmac on 04/02/2024 - 19:55

        Any sources?

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