Engineered Stone Banned in Australia

Kkuba on 14/12/2023 - 08:16
Last edited 14/12/2023 - 12:55 by 1 other user

So, the latest news is that engineered stone has been banned in Australia, as of next year.

Very sad for the workers, I really feel for them. But, it's not made clear in the article why the stone is dangerous, even with appropriate PPE. But it is what it is.

So we renovated the kitchen in our previous home and used this product, and it was absolutely stunning, just beautiful.
We have just bought a new place and it will require renovation. So I may need to find an alternative. Laminate: not an option, as I understand undermount sink does not work with laminate.

Timber: Not sure about undermount sink in this case. And how is hygiene? Timber chopping boards are out in our household, and they can be easily replaced every 6 months. Yes, you're not chopping on the bench top, but 10 years of use is a long time. Just looking at our dining table after 10 years, and that gets used no where near as much use as the bench top.

Natural stone: I think this stains very easily, and cost prohibitive.

Porcelain: looking online they seem to have a similar appearance to engineered stone. More expensive, but hard to find details on cost.

Stainless steel: I don't want my house looking like a prison or a commercial kitchen.

Any other ideas?

EDIT: And what are you experiences with them?

Home & Garden Engineered Stone

Comments

    • EvoQuattro on 14/12/2023 - 13:37
      +1

      Wouldn't this also be considered an Engineered stone though?

      • infinite on 15/12/2023 - 00:00
        +1

        Yes, it's still 20% silica, mostly granite & glass fiber. The glass component is equally if not more dangerous to work with than silica is.

        It's a common material that the bases of cheap swimming pools are made from & it's not at all known for being a long lasting product.

        • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:27
          +1

          Has anybody seen the new law? Will sintered stone be banned also? What about porcelain?

          • Kail on 15/12/2023 - 10:40

            @SlickMick: The best I could find was https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/safety-topic/hazards/cr…

            Safe Work Australia has recommended a prohibition on the use of all engineered stone, irrespective of crystalline silica content.

            The Decision RIS considered a prohibition on the use of engineered stone containing 40% or more crystalline silica but did not recommend this option as there is no evidence of a ‘safe’ threshold of crystalline silica content in engineered stone.

            Permitting work with lower silica engineered stone may create an incorrect perception that these products are ‘safe’ when there is no evidence to support this. Further, it could inadvertently result in greater non-compliance with WHS laws.

            Given this, a precautionary approach to prohibit the use of all engineered stone was considered the most appropriate policy response.

          • gromit on 15/12/2023 - 18:52

            @SlickMick: I would be shocked if sintered stone were not also banned given the stink safe work and other organisations have been kicking up about places claiming their Engineered Stone is safe as it is less than 40%.

    • gromit on 15/12/2023 - 15:32

      I would expect most sintered stone will also be banned, much of that still uses silica, just at a lower level. This may get past the rules in one state, but everyone else is likely to just classify that as engineered stone and included in the ban

  • bargaino on 14/12/2023 - 11:07

    Is it really that much more difficult to do safely than cutting granite or concrete?
    For my DIY kitchen, I just stuck with laminate as any of those are too hard to do safely for me. Looks great, and hard-wearing, even if I miss out on some gimmicks like undermount sink.

  • Rear CreviceEruption on 14/12/2023 - 11:13
    +4

    Alternative: Orange laminate. Popular in the 1970s and 1980s. Seems to last longer than timber benchtops. Looks retro.

    • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:36

      I'm happy to put some controls in place to ensure workers are safe, but I agree a ban is over the top.

      The industry has been fighting the gov on this for years. They've made compromises like lowering the silica content, but maybe they needed to do more in ensuring fabricators take precautions.

      • Protractor on 15/12/2023 - 16:52

        Then the Chinese knock off stuff will fill a void via dodgy suppliers/builders.

        • SlickMick on 17/12/2023 - 17:06

          If a stone fabricator wanting to continue to work with 93% quartz stone knowing the risks, seems somewhat similar to someone choosing to smoke.
          To follow what I believe has worked well for tobacco, I would put a huge tax on stone based on the quartz content. That money can go towards education and healthcare.

  • jv on 14/12/2023 - 12:03
    +3

    Engineered stone banned in Australia

    This is terrible news for engineers…

    • nephilim on 14/12/2023 - 12:13

      prob same engineers that made the collin's class submarine that couldnt fire a torpedo for its first 3 years of operational use.

      • jv on 14/12/2023 - 12:41

        What will they do now though?

  • Master Bates on 14/12/2023 - 12:38
    +1

    We have just bought a new place and it will require renovation. So I may need to find an alternative.

    Not banned yet, so hurry up and buy!

    • jv on 14/12/2023 - 13:57
      +2

      I'm definitely going to stock up for possible future use like all the plastic straws I bought.

      • this is us on 14/12/2023 - 23:09

        And toilet paper?

        • jv on 15/12/2023 - 02:03

          Has that been banned too by Jacinta Allan?

  • Play3r on 14/12/2023 - 13:18
    +3

    Next they will want to do something outrageous like banning smoking due to its health effects.

  • ass3ts on 14/12/2023 - 14:06

    Never a fan of engineered stone benchtops. They look cheap and boring, developers love to use them for their budget run-of-the-mill project homes and many of them wouldn't even bother providing other options.

    • Ghost47 on 16/12/2023 - 17:37

      Bogan-chic IMO. After a very quick google looking at different benchtops there are way nicer looking benchtops out there that aren't as McMansion-y.

  • brad1-8tsi on 14/12/2023 - 17:07
    +2

    PPE and administrative controls are no longer considered sufficient in most industries. Sure, you have to use them but elimination, substitution & engineering controls were our minimum acceptable options.

    The building industry doesn't do itself any favours by cutting safety corners all the time.

    FWIW, I had granite in my last place and it didn't stain in 22 years of use. Stainless steel in my current place and it's fab.
    EDIT: about to do a new kitchen and it will be the product below.

    Shameless plug but my father-in-law has a company called Betta Stone. It's a product manufactured from recycled glass and resins and contains less than 0.02% silica. It's a product invented at UNSW but he bought the (undeveloped) technology and perfected it over a 5 year period. Clients include Woolworths, L'Ocittane, T2, Lush and Oporto(?).
    .

    • A Banana4scale on 14/12/2023 - 20:14
      +1

      Have you got a photo of your SS kitchen? I can’t see SS looking anything more than a commercial kitchen

    • miwahni on 15/12/2023 - 00:03

      Betta stone looks good.

      • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:43

        the only reviewer on productreview didn't think so

        • Lichen6420 on 15/12/2023 - 13:16
          +1

          Betta stone pics in the couple of photos on google review looks like rubbish, sorta looks like a crappy laminate. Reviewers also mention soft and porus surfaces, stains, scratches and chips easily.

          They pretty much fobbed off criticism of the product so shows you the attitude of the company. Not a viable alternative.

          • brad1-8tsi on 15/12/2023 - 16:33

            @Lichen6420: I have no idea how it performs and the product has changed a lot during the 5 year development process so maybe not applicable any more.

            I think when you take an idea and spend years of hard graft on the factory floor and $millions developing it into a viable commercial product you can become very protective and defensive about your "baby".

  • Oofy Doofy on 14/12/2023 - 17:56
    +4

    Whats wrong with timber? It's naturally antibacterial. You can do so many things with it. It's renewable. I think timber is beautiful.

    • pizzip on 14/12/2023 - 18:25
      +6

      Nah mate, doesn't look like the kitchen I watched Shazza and Shane build on The Block. Plus it sounds a bit like greenie propaganda ay.

    • infinite on 15/12/2023 - 00:05
      +1

      You can do a lot of things with it, but making a good kitchen or bench top with it is absolutely not one of them at all.

    • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:45
      +1

      Engineered stone is popular because it doesn't need treatment.

      If I was going to have to look after it, I'd use granite.

  • gakko on 14/12/2023 - 18:57
    +1

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/johnson-tiles-300-x-600mm-marble… these with thin grouting.

  • Tiredman on 14/12/2023 - 19:48
    +3

    None of the tradies at my sites wears a mask. I wish them all the best.

  • oblivianz on 14/12/2023 - 21:08

    Does this mean that if I have a chip on my stone benchtop I should get a repair in asap?

    • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 14/12/2023 - 22:21
      +1

      No, it's perfectly safe as it is. Install a 2nd sink and need to cut it with a power tool….. 100% it's going to be unsafe when cut.

  • BertieBrown on 14/12/2023 - 21:57
    +1

    You can use timber and then use a coating on it, that acts like an epoxy. Then just use wood chopping boards on top. Dr. Carl addressed this, saying that wood boards are fine because the bacteria doesn’t have anything to live on, so it dies. I prefer plastic myself, but according to the Dr. it’s fine.

  • ratman on 14/12/2023 - 23:12
    +2

    Why not just do granite or marble or something? Plenty of variation and they look good.

    • infinite on 15/12/2023 - 00:07

      Because they can cost 2-4 times as much per square meter, even more again to install and functionally they are crap in comparison due to how easily they scratch, stain, are porous, etc…. compared to engineered stone.

  • echineon on 14/12/2023 - 23:42

    Something I haven't seen discussed in this thread yet is latency. All this whataboutism with smoking and asbestos - people started developing symptoms in their late 40's if heavily exposed - and I mean heavily exposed with very bad luck 2 packs a day smoker with predisposed condition for cancer exposed. Not the same for this product where majority of report was as early as early 30's. I haven't had a chance to save the citation yet but just pointing out to get the discussion moving away from all the strawman with smoking and asbestos. Plus, smokers doesn't cost much compare to old people with complex care needs - smokers die early and less cost - again I can only scream trust me.

    • infinite on 15/12/2023 - 00:14

      The comparison is that both ciggies and silica are only dangerous to morons who choose to inhale them.

      Engineered stone is 100% safe if basic safety protocols are followed and simple PPE is worn. It poses no risk at all once installed. The entire cutting and fabrication is done by robots in safe secure environments with extractors and water, then tradies just install it and then owners/renters use it. The only part of that process where it's dangerous, is if moron tradies installing it do so while ignoring basic safety requirements.

      Also FYI, engineered stone has been a common bench-top material for well over 30 years now. Yet we've never had anywhere remotely near the same number of people with lung problems at any age that smoking causes.

      • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:50
        +1

        Just to clarify: engineering stone would be safe if it were only cut by robots.

        I have no doubt that there are better solutions to the problem than a ban.

      • scrambledeggs on 15/12/2023 - 14:49

        Calling it "simple" PPE is a bit of an understatement, you have to go somewhere and get a fit test mask by an authorised agency which is like a hazmat hood that goes over your whole face, it's worse than a welding mask. And if are fitting off a kitchen then no other tradie can be in the kitchen at the same time unless they are also wearing the same massive mask. And then you need to use a H class Vacuum to suck up the residue or it can become air borne again. It is not a simple issue.

        • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 15:33
          +2

          Doesn't sound complicated for a factory. Ours is being fabricated by a specialist (sintered stone can't be cut by the average cabinet maker) and delivered pre-cut.
          I'd have no problems passing a law that it can only be cut under such conditions. Shame there is so much more wisdom on Ozbargain than there is in Canberra.

        • Menzoberranzan on 15/12/2023 - 18:22
          +2

          A fit test is a walk in the park mate lol. You basically just try on a couple different masks, seal them properly then place the hood over which helps contain the spray. If you taste the spray while wearing the mask then you aren't getting a good seal, which means you aren't protected from the dust.

          We just have shitty builders that can't build worth a damn and no surprise they aren't compliant with PPE. Useless

  • figarow on 15/12/2023 - 07:42
    +2

    So the workers are getting sick from the product but you want it anyway even though there are many alternatives? Okay..

    • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:54
      +1

      Yes.

      Lets see if there is a solution to stop workers getting sick rather than ruin an entire industry just because our problem-solving skills are limited to ignore or eliminate..

      • figarow on 15/12/2023 - 12:20

        I wasn't speaking to the industry, for sure investigating non ban solutions is preferable. I was speaking to the consumer who has too many options..

  • MaXcon on 15/12/2023 - 07:57

    Any other ideas?

    Stone manufacturers will transition to silica free alternatives, so you'll still be able to get engineered stone

    • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 10:54

      I'm really curious as to exactly what is being banned. Just the products that haven't transformed to low silica??

  • alexdagr8 on 15/12/2023 - 10:41
    +1

    Cheap alternative…
    This guy keeps coming up on my YouTube:

    Epoxy “stone coat countertops”

    https://youtu.be/DdCQP-TtzKc?si=OogGZ7v0p3oBd2MM

    No stone, marble look, not laminate - you asked, we delivered.

    • Oofy Doofy on 15/12/2023 - 11:35

      Seems like a good balance. I like it. Timber with this on top. Personally I'd just keep whatever timber I use as is, but each to their own if one has some sort of design consistency they're following.

    • Korban Dallas on 16/12/2023 - 17:48

      Epoxy looks good but over time it's not a good solution.

      If you were to renovate and flip a house sure. Someone else's problem.

  • johnfuller on 15/12/2023 - 11:27
    +1

    its not the dangers it poses to the person grinding with/without ppe, but what about the neighbours? it all ends up in water ways, what happens to it then? same can be said about car tires? brake dust? diesel fumes?

  • R4 on 15/12/2023 - 12:16
    +2

    I'm no expert on workbench materials but:
    Concrete? Polished concrete floors can look great so could concrete worktops, but maybe prone to chipping?
    Timber? If it's quality wood it might be an option with the advantage that is can be sanded back and resealed?
    Stainless steel? I reckon you could get a good, industrial look and it's incredibly hard-wearing.
    Natural stone? Looks good but is expensive and I believe prone to staining?
    Laminate? Looks shit and is shit.

    This ban is just an overreaction to a problem that wouldn't exist if installers did their job properly, but this is the situation and we have to live with it.

  • stedmaster on 15/12/2023 - 13:29

    Could always get a polished SRC (super reinforced concrete) kitchen top, you can add different compounds and elements to change the colour and texture, can even make it have a glass like finish.

    Did they just ban engineered stone, what about concrete blocks and cement factories, precast shapes often need touching up with a grinder and filler.

  • morebunnings on 15/12/2023 - 14:07
    +1

    Corian bench tops are basically the same but don't contain silica. Similar price too.

    • SlickMick on 15/12/2023 - 16:14
      -1

      basically the same in that they both benchtops. I can't think of a single other similarity.

  • kaleidoscope on 15/12/2023 - 14:38

    Very sad for the workers, I really feel for them

    Why? How bad do you feel about the people used do asbestos works back in the day?

    —-

    If you got butler’s kitchen go with stainless steel and thank me later.

  • Cam imbesi on 15/12/2023 - 15:38

    Fenix or Corian or similar products are a great option. https://www.nover.com.au/fenix-panels/

  • nigel deborah on 15/12/2023 - 18:14

    Why do you throw out timber chopping boards after 6 months… Make sure they stay dry and they'll last decades.

    Plus, naturally antibacterial unlike plastic boards.

  • MrThing on 15/12/2023 - 20:23
    +2

    Ban the stone because tradies don't protect themselves or their workmates with simple work methods and ppe

    How very Australian

  • riff.79 on 15/12/2023 - 20:54

    It's a no to Timber as well…. Just don't….

  • kiwimex on 15/12/2023 - 22:14

    Time to order my stone bench tops for my future kitchen upgrade…will have to store the slabs until required. On that note why have they not banned cigarettes and alcohol…just asking for a friend.

    • Widget on 16/12/2023 - 13:02

      Cause the Government likes the tax from them. I reckon if they had a tax on eng stone, it wouldn't be banned.

      • kiwimex on 16/12/2023 - 13:34

        100%

  • fishing on 16/12/2023 - 05:23
    +1

    In the US they use tiles. Not my cup of tea but to each their own

  • creesy on 16/12/2023 - 14:07

    Does this mean there might be some deals to be had on engineered stone soon….

  • Ghost47 on 16/12/2023 - 17:20
    +3

    If the ban comes in mid next year you can either renovate ASAP or not renovate ASAP and choose an alternative when the ban comes into place (assuming it's on time).

    From your comments it seems like you have a very negative opinion of other materials. Have you asked yourself why that is? Do you like engineered stone simply because it's all you see in display homes and on The Block for example? Have you googled what timber or stainless steel benchtops could look like? Here's a video of Kiefer Sutherland cooking chicken on his timber benchtop. I understand everyone has different tastes and styles but it's not what I would call "ugly". Here's a photo of a kitchen with timber benchtops and here's one with stainless steel benchtops. Honestly after seeing the photo with the timber benchtops it makes me think engineered stone is actually cheap and tacky because it seems to be basically ubiquitous in newer homes.

    Re the ban: I'm not surprised it happened. We are living in more and more of a nanny state, with policies that are created to protect the stupid from harming themselves. We all know how bad the building industry is; it's run by a bunch of cowboys. Tradies aren't exactly PhD material. The interesting part is that we're the first country on the planet to ban this engineered stone, so I wonder what other countries are doing or if silicosis is an issue in other countries. No doubt someone out there will act like we're the best country in the world simply because we pioneered banning of this stuff.

  • Korban Dallas on 16/12/2023 - 17:42

    About time. Pretty pissed at manufacturers saying they can start making engineered stone benchtops under the 1% silica content rule as soon as mid 2024.

    When it came to the crunch they had to change their ingredients.

    Plenty of other options out there that have no silica content. Like porcelain and solid surface.

    Also stating that their benchtops are fine providing they follow safe workplace methods and no danger to the public.

    I personally like solid surface more. Can get some pretty swish looking types. Translucent and marbelly. Also can bend under heat do you can do some pretty cool things. Also easy to repair.

    Only reason why Australia uses it so much is because they marketed it early on. Could have been a lot different.

    PS in the building industry and former cabinet maker.

    • FullTimeClown on 17/12/2023 - 10:01
      +1

      Caesarstone company going bankrupt would be epic and i would love to see this.

  • tik tok on 16/12/2023 - 19:24

    Natural stone is reported to crack so easily. Can engineered stone not be reformulated? Call it Re-engineered stone. Re-engineered soil is going to be common place soon enough - for sturdier structures, better crops, etc.

  • pingponged on 16/12/2023 - 23:08

    I did butcher block timber on the old place but not sure I'd do it again. I loved the look of it way more than the engineered stone we have on the current place, but the timber is looking a bit worse for wear after 7 years.

    The good news is that it can be sanded down, but that's still a hassle. Not looking forward to see what it looks like after the tenants are done with it

  • bargain huntress on 22/12/2023 - 01:32
    -1

    How stupid do you have to be to routinely ignore the PPE advisory on a material you are using?

    How stupid do you have to be to routinely ignore the PPE training you paid for in your tafe course?

    I dont normally use woke terminology, but the only thing i can think of to explain the persistent culture of unsafety in Australian tradies is toxic masculinity.

    Its retarded

    Comparisons to asbestos are inaccurate and unscientiffic

  • bargain huntress on 22/12/2023 - 01:35

    Im a germaphobe so id just put in stainless steel

    Sooooo steeeerile

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