I mean it makes a lot of sense for us to become a neutral state.
We follow the US but our biggest trading partner is China.
We are surrounded by Asian nations yet our political alliance is with the west.
We are a nation bound by multicultural with 52% of Aussie with a parent boring overseas.
We have natural resources everyone wants.
Why wouldn't us be better if we became a neutral state???
Haha tell that to the clusterf*** America has become . Putins bestie wrecked the joint
Trump?
ah yes, the crusade of democracy *cue top gun theme"
Poll questions are rigged.
Is the country you are originally from a democracy my friend ? or a pretend one.
I lived in Singapore for 8 years, China for 5 years, 33 years in Australia.
You tell me
Ok sorry. Fair enough. So you would have a strong grasp of the history of the region and the important roll of the United states in the liberation of the region from the barbaric Japanese military?
So 1940's Imperial Japan = 2020s China?
@Protractor: You should actually look at how China conducts itself and how the country is run.
Go read and watch how poorly their standards are. Collapsing bridges, buildings, fake medicine and food,…
They even had a company selling fake milk made out of poisonous mineral waste. How bad does a country have to be, to do that ? THis is but one example of what a disaster of a place China is compared to the west.
US is all about war, that's how they make money. They are not beating the Japanese out of the good hearts. Just like they are not invading Iraq to help it's people. Everything US does is for their own benefit and beyond.
@Aerith-Waifu: Yeah. You've got no idea. Us intentions in Vietnam - criminal and Iraq - Questionable. Ww2 -saved the world from the most tyrannical nation states in human history.
@Micsmit: Micsmit:
Yes America has less than honourable actions in its history… bbut guess what the other powers are much worse.
Just ask the people who lived under the USSR or China.
Theres a reason why people always leave those palces to come to USA or AUS, and basically never go in reverse….
Grow up or if you dislike Au that badly go live in your Russian or Chinese paradise.
@Aerith-Waifu: Aerith: US is all about war, that's how they make money.
cow: How ?
How do you make money invading Iraq ?The place is a shithole, there is literally nothing to steal from there.
I think you dont understand basica accounting.
The value of Iraq oil is much much less than the cost of the equipment, wages, and more for the US troops etc.
Aerith: Everything US does is for their own benefit and beyond.
cow: And other world powers are different ?
Can you actually name a single world power that ever did something benevolent for humanity and not money ?
There is only one example in human history…try and answer.
HODL!
Its our economic eggs all in one basket relationship with China that is a risk for us.
Economically Australia needs to try to spread it risk more not just trade wise but with foreign investment.
In regards to neutrality of Switzerland in world war 2 Operation Tannenbaum was a planned but cancelled invasion of Switzerland by the Axis Powers during World War II. Basically they didn't consider Switzerland valuable enough for the effort required to take it.
Highly unlikely anyone would want to invade Australia but we are resource rich, large land mass, relatively small population a easy target. We dont know what the future will bring in 30, 50, 100 years time. Its good to have allies for that reason.
Switzerland cant be compared to Australia.
The richest ppl in this country are rich because of China.
If you are talking risks, we are a target because of our blind allegiance based on a 70+ YO event.
We are situated in a region where our 'whiteness' doesn't matter a F.
And if push comes to shove the yanks won't be able to sort out all the strategic problems a real conflict would raise. All this AUKUS shit is is a safety net based on mind games. The next war will be real brutal, and real short. Our subs won't even get to push the choke back in
Whao fire up
Who gives a (profanity) who's rich.? They should all be shot
But they own Drizabone and Akubra now.
Twiggy & Gina, altruistic Aussie legends,from battler to Royalty in a few score years. Both skilled with plum in mouth superiority.
All that wealth bought ( bribed their way into the resource) ) with a gazillion tons of earth and the quadrillion Sydney Harbours worth of potable water to wash it, so we could all buy a cheap BBQ at Bunnings. LOL.
We swapped a whole living landscape, so a couple of puffer fish could rub the proceeds in the whole country's face
The one thing that blows my mind is the concept that anyone bar ourselves is accountable for protecting our interests… AUKUS is the UK and US selling us stuff and being able to contain their competition in an region that is too expensive for them to do themselves. The delusion that Aus is seen as an equal must be a laughing joke in the White House and 10 Downing.
used to be nice there until the govt opened the gates up for cultural enrichment… the only thing enriched is their crime rates
we need to be part of the western block period. It is simply foolish to think of neutrality. It simply means no ally when in need and you are on your own.
I want to be allied with the country that doesn't lynch people and run concentration camps and has a lot of fking nukes and ships.
That rules out the yanks
American concentration camps!
lol!
GITMO resort.
@Protractor: Comparing Gitmo to a concentration camp is a stretch. I didn't agree with that policy and massive mistakes were made. But was it a Japan/german death camp? No
That's how they treat the American born Japanese in the WW2
@Aerith-Waifu: Ummm. Also Australia locked up Italian migrants here during WW2, despite them being peaceful uninvolved and contributing to our communities.
@Aerith-Waifu: do you know what a death camp is? Chinese do, japanese do.. germans do.
american hasnt made any death camps.
Looks like the WAP supporters got wind of this poll
I'm not sure people actually understand what "neutral" means in this context, especially when they mention countries like Switzerland.
It's effectively neutral militarily (though does take sides in wars (Ukraine being an obvious example - heavily sanctioning Russia while giving Ukraine billions of dollars) and supplies weaponry to countries actively involved in war, so is arguably not completely neutral), but certainly isn't culturally or politically. It's closely aligned to Europe and the West, is actively involved in international affairs (e.g. you can view its UN voting record - it's clearly not taking a neutral position on things) and does speak out against other countries.
My personal belief is that those who are privileged enough to live in strong, stable and (relatively) peaceful countries like we do have a moral obligation to try and help the rest of humanity who don't have that pleasure get the same. We have one, very short, life and I personally find it upsetting how many people have to spend their short time on Earth suffering. Australia is also very clearly a Western country - both politically and culturally - so I don't know why you'd be surprised, or critical, of it having stronger cultural links with the West than with Asia, or why that presents a problem (unless you're suggesting that we need to be more tolerant of dictators and despots?).
It doesn't apply to everyone who holds this view, but I get the distinct impression that most people who strongly care about "being neutral" actually just want to enrich themselves further at the expense of people living under oppressive regimes - "so what if people are being murdered or tortured, they have cash and I want a new car". Switzerland, for example, is "neutral" because of it's history being wedged between feuding empires - something Australia doesn't have - though as I've pointed out already, I don't think they're as neutral as you might think they are.
Most of the criticisms of how the country currently interacts with the world (e.g. being America's lapdog etc.) don't require a neutrality pact to resolve, it merely requires having a backbone. Australia is already free to disassociate with US policy etc. if it wants to, and only joins wars voluntarily. If those are the things you don't like about our current foreign policy, you could merely change that instead of declaring neutrality. I wouldn't be overly opposed to some degree of military neutrality, but that's not going to change Australia's relationship with Asia - I don't think any Asian country (perhaps barring North Korea) holds serious concerns about Australia invading or attacking them.
The problem with the "west" is the self belief that the west is "better". Kudos to the altruistic desire to share your betterment with others… but the west is not better in everything and vice versa.
The problem with the "west" is the self belief that the west is "better".
The west is better.
What on Earth does that meaningless nonsense have to do with what I said?
The West is irrefutably better than the Asian dictatorships from a human rights perspective, but regardless, being part of it doesn't require you to do everything any other Western country does (which should be incredibly obvious given the West includes hugely disparate nations - from the US to Iceland).
My point was none of this moaning has anything whatsoever to do with whether Australia is "neutral" or not. The entire premise of this thread doesn't make much sense.
Blah blah blah
@FlyingMiffy: How insightful. I really don't know why I bother engaging with some of the idiots you get on this site…
It's not better in everything, but it's better in most things socially and economically.
Too many oppressive regimes in the non-West, and certainly too many oppressive regimes and massively high power disparity societies in our neighbouring countries.
I feel kinda warm and fuzzy that such a well thought out and nuanced post came out of such a badly couched, off the cuff, OP.
The OP was such a mishmash of randomness that it's one step up from gibberish- none of the 'points' have anything to do with neutrality. If anything, some of them are good points for strong political alliances.
US alliance has been our cornerstone since WW2. No Labor or liberal leader will EVER change that. Maybe when the younger voters start to change the status quo it might be reexamined.
neutral all the way, western ways will be the death of us, USA is always looking to start wars and we are on their D and follow them blindly into any unjust war. cause we are scared for no reason that china might attack and we trust the most un-trustable government in the world (usa) to protect us in case that happens
Ally with the US is not only about security.
Correct.It's about our REAL sovereignty. Which we have lost completely, and emphatically, to the USA
Utter rubbish. Australia aligns itself with the US due to shared values, not because "it's scared China will attack it" - which it very obviously is never going to do, whether Australia is aligned with the US or not.
And that's ignoring the fact that this has nothing whatsoever to do with "neutrality".
We have natural resources everyone wants.
That’s the main difference between us and Switzerland or Singapore.
There are very few resources and too much effort (= not worth it) to conquer Switzerland.
Australia on the other hand would be like Ukraine (= sitting duck).
Both Switzerland and Singapore have enormous service economies - why wouldn't China want them?
If you're claiming it's because those services will be cut off from the global system they rely upon if China seized them, exactly the same would happen if China invaded Australia. The idea that Australia is a sitting duck waiting to be captured is ludicrous.
A lot harder to force a service based economy to work for a occupying power, but resources come out of the ground just fine.
You just have to look at all the mining that still gets done in countries that are unstable, have civil unrest or are occupied.
Invading a highly developed country with a reasonably respected military (even ignoring alliances) isn't remotely easy. If it's going to be too hard to force a service economy to continue, I don't see how they're going to have the strength/commitment to invade the country in the first place.
Imagine China's CCP smiling as we turned Neutral…we are going to be the target of Indonesia, India & China in decades to come given our vacant land, abundance of natural resources (which they wont responsibly mine) and prime agricultural land. Australia is in a lot of trouble and we're importing the dregs of the world on the drip to ensure those who've been here, paid taxes, built communities and made it the 'lucky country' are no longer rewarded for it
Why would India attack us? They have huge numbers living here as migration
not sure about neutral state but to be a bit less of a lap dog to the US would be nice. you can be aligned with the west or even part of NATO but not be their attack dog at the expense of our national interest
We aren't now, and never will be,an attack dog. Lap dog, yes. But assistance dog, more likely. We lick their butt, while they take us out shopping. Our shout, of course.
While signing us up to billions to buy their stuff…
Dont understand what it means by "western"? Is that supporting genocide in the middle east, hording weapons of mass destruction while accusing anyone else trying to as terrorists states, forcing global trade to your currency, and enforcing a strong opinion about someone elses foreign policy (because you know, they have no idea otherwise). Thats western right?
Yes. The term is based on the US film classification system. A 'western' is a film about gun toting cowboys, who always win, and the rest always lose. Mexicans, native Americans,African slaves, and every war/invasion since they wrote the rubbery self interpretive constitution.When there isn't a a battle to justify the guns and carnage, they fabricate one.Hence the proliferation of violent fantasies and delusions and conspiracies in the 'west'.
Talk about loaded answers.. is this appearing in the Murdoch press tomorrow?
It should be a poll that draws out the public's choice to demand the govt walks and chews gum at the same time.
We should be able to control our own destiny and trade with China, without becoming Americas groveling moist orifice.
Too late,now. Darwin is now a second generation Pearl Harbour and Perth and Adelaide will follow.Probably more weaponizing of NW ports ahead as well. QLD is basically a complete military enclave, going fwd.
If China invades Taiwan, we have no option but to be neutral. Our economy is so heavily reliant on China, that any sanctions Australia tries to place on China will be catastrophic. It's easy to support Ukraine with Russia because we aren't dependent on Russia.
China equates to 30% of our total imports and exports.
https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports-by-country
https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/imports-by-country
if China invades Taiwan we'll get dragged into World War 3 and have our economy decimated because US will wage a hot and trade war on China using all but their own troops. There is bipartisan support for this madness unfortunately
We should be fixing the problem, but nope we'll let it play out and learn a lesson the hard way.
Without the US and EU to export to China will not require our resources. They will get what the require for their war machine from Russia.
Along with a couple of ICBMs, delivered for free, into Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzen etc.
MAD is still very much in play.
You sound like you spend way too much time playing computer games and swallowing the twaddle the weapon w*nkers spew out.
@R4: Apart from the way your Mum dresses you, you looked like you had your act together for a while there.
Good luck with it all.
@R4: Cool
Must really shit you not being able to get your baseball cap off every time you hear/see/read the term ICBM.
If you aren't a Yank now, you should consider the option.You surpass the low bar , and then some
@Protractor: It doesn't shit me.
I just get a chubby instead - and I'm pretty good at limbo dancing.
If China invaded TW. It will be the end of the world as nuclear weapons will be used by everyone!
American is going to nuke China if they attacked Taiwan…. They'll just do what they did to Russia. And now it wasn't nuke them.
Yes, because growling and frowning at China will really stop them dead in their tracks. America is a lame duck against Russian nukes, or Ukraine conflict would be all over. NATO turned out to be as good a deterrent as a finger pointing. The current precedent almost dissolves NATO and doesn't auger well for the passive Euro nations going fwd.
@Protractor: Ukraine is not part of NATO, pretty sure if Russia marched one foot in Poland they would be swiftly removed. And love of hate them America has the most advanced conventional war machine, unmatched even by China. They have 11 aircraft carriers to Chinas 2.
@tomfool: NATO, then, is half pregnant as far as it's design goes.That's the takeaway. As for Poland maybe NATO is applicable, but I'm not sure how thin you think the USA can go, but the list is maxing out their physical capacity already.
And if the USA can defend Kuwait directly, why then not Ukraine? Answer? Oil and Russia.
@tomfool: China isn't a war machine so not sure what you're on about.
You'd have to be actually involved in wars to be one..
@TightAl: Not necessarily, second military budget in the world, and considering the difference in cost in relation with the US, china has probably the biggest military budget in the world.
And we all know what they are planning.
Overseas parents sure are boring
Like you said, everyone wants our resources and we can’t defend ourselves. We need the US and UK.
US, yes. UK, no. They would struggle to defend themselves given that they've down their military so much.
Gonna need to see your birth certificate OP
This is so dumb, proof the internet is literally stupid.
We can't be neutral as then we wouldn't be safe. Endof
Bikies, American bikies.
I love Aussie culture but not necessarily a fan of 'western way'. We shouldn't follow western or eastern way, it should always be our own Aussie way. When they colonised Australia, so called Western pioneers (British to be precise) never regard this as a true western country, in their eyes it was always a bastardised version of it. They (or yankies) never treated Aussies as equal either (many of us know what happened in world wars where our troops had to do many sacrifices). Even today, for US, Australia is just a lap dog (and will always be treated as one). East (china in particular) influences a lot of our economical side of things, hence it's important that we maintain relationship with them strategically as well. That doesn't mean we should become a lap dog to them as well instead of US (will we worse then). But we shouldn't forget a lot of economical advancements we have made recently is due to our trade relationships with east not west. All in all, my vote is definitely to become neutral and stay as 'Aussies' on our own way without being a puppet to either west or east.
China owns much of Australian land and politics and financial systems
China controls much of Australian foreign affairs so Albanese has to visit his overlord in Beijing
Australia is reliant completely on China for trade
Australia uses Chinese products predominantly in every way from BYD to Lenovo to Xiaomi
Australians all use Aliexpress and other Chinese platforms to buy cheap and nasty Chinese stuff
Not sure what you mean by neutral state?
I’m sure the downvotes will come from hypocrites and people with double and triple standards, but it’s the truth.
They can’t handle the truth like they can’t handle their alcohol and toilet habits lol
The USA owns much of Australian land and politics and financial systems and security systems (public & govt data included)
The USA controls all Australian foreign affairs so Dutton had to visit his overlord in Washington, and dragged covid into our parliament at that time. Since then the ALP have taken over the tounguing process.
Australia is reliant completely on the USA for anything America demands.They control most of our energy resources and we pay what they say by default here at home.
Australia uses Chinese products predominantly in every way from BYD to Lenovo to Xiaomi, because despite America claiming to be family, they don't cut us in favours as far as prices or shipping goes.It's a one way street
Australians all use Aliexpress and other Chinese platforms to buy cheap and nasty Chinese stuff. (because somehow ebay and Amazon can't be seen by agenda benders)
Not sure what you mean by neutral state?
I’m sure the downvotes will come from hypocrites and people with double and triple standards, but it’s the truth.
They can’t handle the truth like they can’t handle their country's monoculture fading away before their eyes and the USA takeover reaching it's end game of making us a weapons and nuclear wast dump and walking target. WE effectively exist so their enemies can exhaust their weaponry on us to spread the load to reduce the impact on them.
Imagine the mental gymnastics you need to go through to name drop xiaomi in any argument.
Oh no, the xiaomi scooter/lamp/vacuum/powerbank is making you a traitor lmao wut
And to somehow manage to call anyone using,buying,having or endorsing a Chinese product beggars belief.
Nationalist dross.
Capitalism will always favour a giant behemoth sized manufacturing base or somewhere where cheap labour = lower inputs( to continue its downward spiral)
America and Australia would go broke overnight if the Chinese product inflow stopped.
I dare say even that cheap nasty crap via online shopping is a handy kicker via GST, freight/post etc.
Trade isn't a one way street. Trading with a strong growing economy like China is how Australia survived the Global Financial Crisis and not suffer like the rest of the world.
During the GFC the USA relied on massive loans from China. The USA benefitted hugely and would have been in worse situation.
Would you prefer Australian economic policies to mirror the USA where they continually print money and always have government shut downs when its time to pass spending bills.
Who are you asking?
Sounds like a good way to lose absolutely everything by getting invaded and having no friends.
Where's the option that geopolitics and national sovereignty has been bullshit since the world wars. Real decisions are made by transnational oligarchs and elites.
Communists? no you will find it's just fairly typical islamic anti-american rhetoric.