I mean it makes a lot of sense for us to become a neutral state.
We follow the US but our biggest trading partner is China.
We are surrounded by Asian nations yet our political alliance is with the west.
We are a nation bound by multicultural with 52% of Aussie with a parent boring overseas.
We have natural resources everyone wants.
Why wouldn't us be better if we became a neutral state???
We have the money surely if politicians do its job. Australia is a rich country they say
No, we don't have the time or money to be able to ramp up our defences to become neutral. You can't just wave a magic wand.
MOre taxes are not needed.
What is needed is less stupid projects like Rozelle, Metro, New Sydney airport. none of them are needed and none of them actually make life better for anyone.
Those projects add up to something like $30 Billion. The cost of the new AUKUS subs is something like $268 billion and $368 billion. We might get three in the next decade.
Just imagine the military spend needed for Australia to become neutral.
No there are many more stupid projects around Australia. I obviously didnt give a full list. Basically every infrastructure projects like tunnels and roads and trains is a waste of money, they do not work, they make things worse and add debt and more importantly they result in people continuing to waste time commuting. Sydney has over $100B in projects in just the last few years and thers more coming. If we add all the other cities these easily eclipse the subs.
Heres another the new Sydney Airport, thats another $50B and whats more , 99% of Australians do not gain anything from it. They pay taxes to build it, and the trains and roads, and what do they get in return ?
Nothing because basically less than 1% of Australians are actually in the tourism business.
@CowFrogHorse: How on earth would any political party be elected on a platform (pun intended) of cancelling every infrastructure project in Australia so they can spend money on the military?
@Baysew: @Baysew
Please try and be honest, its not fair if you twist and invent words i never made.
I never said they should cancel all infrastructure projects and spend it on the military.
I said that infrastructure proejcts do not work. Rozelle and all the other tunnels and roads like it do not work thaats a fact.
@Baysew: You tell me, whats the point of building more tunnels and similar infrastructure if the problem they are addressing do es not improve ?
A nother way of thinking about it is, to ask the question is it worth doing that project for the benefits it returns. ?
I challenge you to answer both questions with real numbers, show costs for one example and the number of people who benefit and what the benefits are. When you do that you will realise that these projects are damn stupid.
I'm more interested in the boring parents. Are these Elons mum and dad? Is that where he got the name for the tunnelling company?
Switzerlands former neutrality worked for them because of a lot of factors that wouldn’t necessarily work here. And depended on both sides observing it.
With our resources and location it’s not an option for us.
Invading Australia is incredibly difficult anyway and quite unnecessary. At any time we are only about 8 days off fuel rationing - and the previous dopes organised our strategic fuel reserves to be on mainland USA….🤷♂️. Gain a controlling interest in some key multinationals then be in a position to hinder international shipping and just leave us to it. Current administration for these things are in ‘merica so that’s who we’ll be told to fight for.
and the previous dopes organised our strategic fuel reserves to be on mainland USA….
This is always going to be the icing on the cake for the liberals.
The logic was questionable at the best of times. Imagine being like, oh i have money, but it's tied up overseas and it will take 20 days to transport it here. Although i'm not likely to get access to it anyway as the American's will just reserve it for their own emergency supply.
Yes. It plays out as - international incident and potential security issue for OZ and ‘merca. All petroleum products embargoed. OZ eventually gets supplies of our own crude oil because of our ‘Special Staus’…..
I guess in the age of nuclear bombs been neutral doesn't really carry the same weight as 80 years ago….
maybe but ~78 years ago was the start of the atomic age and swiss "neautrality" continued…. apparently to 'counter' this they did what they do best….. dig big holes in mountains and underground :P
Dont think big holes can stand the current gen weaponry…..
Careful what you wish for Ukraine was pretty much a neutral state
The where considering joining Nato but they wete independent and thus are now being wiped out by the Russians
I thought alot of Ukraine wants to be part of Russia also
Hmm yeah, just like the Taiwanese really want to be part of Mainland China.
Yeah, history is nuanced but no-one 'likes' being invaded and bomb to kingdom come….
Plus I bet some people had their interests in mind when it came to 2014+….
Luckily Ukraine might reform the last vestiges of soviet influence in home and government… Hopefully the world will be generous, rather than purely predatory in rebuilding the nation after all this….
The Taiwanese has very close ties with the rest of China. It's their shared history.
@valuer: its all about the economy, and the old gen and the new gen have different thoughts.
Also media played a lot in the role as well.
Taiwan at the moment is very much divided. the young didn't want to war and many didn't even want to know about the politics. So I wouldn't say they really want to be part of china.
@Aerith-Waifu: Hong Kong was also divided before being re-absorbed into Mainland China, one party, two one systems…
But luckily, the thousands marching in the streets are perfectly happy now /s
@ESEMCE: Lmao people with zero insight into what being a hongkong'er is speaking for hongkong people.
What is Hong Kong without China? absolutely nothing. Those rioters who destoryed infrastructure and assaulted women. Disgusting.
And you know what? Alot of people who left Hongkong during all the drama have returned. Surprise surprise.
What is Hong Kong without China?
Pretty sure they were fine before the recent events.
Many people have left HK, and haven't returned.
@TightAl: Nonsense. Hong Kong under British rule, and then largely on their own, absolutely and totally prospered. The building blocks that the UK gave them made the difference, then the hard work of their people took over. They were totally fine before the CCP took over and fa cked the place up.
Here's a fact that people who love Winnie the Pooh and the CCP often fail to grasp - when people have freedom and someone is threatening to take it away, they'll fight for it.
@R4: So what's wrong with hong kong now?
Why is it 'fa cked' up?
Don't be so vague, why not provide some specifics on why it's so bad now?
Why did HK prosper? Why aren't they prospering now?
When did HK have freedom? Lol when they were under the british? Bet you didn't have family living under british rule in HK but I'm sure you know more than those who did :)
@R4: That's the expected response from someone who uses winnie the pooh in a comment, zero substance.
Calling people CCP lmao. Must be hard to back up your so called claims :)
I live in Australia and i can't think HK and not worse off than before? Are you normal? Where should I live? In America?
@TightAl: Can you reply in real English please. You replied in some attempt at English but I couldn't understand it.
@R4: Thanks for the joke is that is your post history lmao. Your english is LoL
Did you finish highschool?
So typical, no arguments and decide to pull the english card. No surprises. Standard NPC: WinniE Da PooH CcP BoT
@TightAl: I agree HK had freedoms, but they have never prospered. I wouldnt call living in that place prosperity.
HK is dirty, most people live in shitty high rise apartments, and work 60+ hours a week to survive.
Thats not prosperity and if it was thaats not a good life.
you are plugged into russian propaganda
Well Finland joined NATO and Russia didn't go mental. Putin just can't accept that all the money they've used in Ukraine over the years to pay off the politicians in order to turn them to Russian controlled puppet state didn't work out. Now he just wants to go down in history as fearless leader who makes Russia great again. But it cannot ever happen in country where everyone is stealing from everyone.
Warning:
From the complexities of a Neutral Australia to the vulgarity of Russia the Ugly … really …
Yea Russia are the good guys!!! Right? Just removing all the Nazis from Ukraine with their "special operation".
@tomfool: Good? Bad?
Who's is good? Ukraine? Israel? USA? Vietnam?
Australia perhaps ? ? ? ? ? ?
Neutrality is the topic.
Well Finland joined NATO and Russia didn't go mental.
It would have if Putin hadn't already essentially destroyed Russia as a military power.
US wants be the so called peace maker of the world so they will never attack us (or would they)?
China is too busy building strength in their economy so they can topple the US in 10-20 years so it makes no sense to attack us.
Who is this big nation you mentioned? Russia?
Luckily we don't have unsophisticated people making the decisions for our country.
You must be living under the rock if you think our politicians are anything but……
Jesus, you should write some more material like that and hit the road. Start at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. Standing ovations every night.
China is too busy building strength in their economy
China's economy is hardly doing well, housing is a real chance to collapse it.
China is a polluted shithole run by a Winnie the Pooh clone and with an economy that's in a total mess (housing).
If China is the future of the World, we're f *ck ed.
Strength ?
China is still the country of crap and fakes.
Let me know when they can build a plane or anything high quality. There are plenty of news stories and videos on the internet that show their stuff collapsing all the time.
When was the last time a building or freeway collapsed in AU ? Now tell me how many happened last month in China ?
THeir space program is nothing more than the Russian program with chinese writing on it, their planes are guess what just an assembly of western components. They dont even have an operating system nor do they manufacture a console. Go ask your dentist or doctor if they have chinese equipment. Or even better goto the tunnelling projects in Sydney or wherever, guess where all those machines come from ?
Let me know when they can build a plane or anything high quality.
Considering how much consumer technology is manufactured in China, this is a touch hyperbolic.
While I agree with some of your sentiment, and things are as bad as some of what you've said, as someone in manufacturing it sound like you have little idea how much high end hardware and tools come out of China that are used in dentistry, in building and construction, and in various fields of medicine.
The problem isn't their equipment, there's both good and bad stuff of that which is on the market for industrial use. The issue with Chinese projects is that the COMPANIES have systemic multi level corruption within.
The tofu dredge epidemic of buildings is because there are many individuals knowingly and intentionally choosing unsuitable and insufficient parts/products/materials from multiple different parts of a project and sucking money for themselves.
How long will you cling to that big scary inflatable monster?
What big country doesnt care about it's own people?
The country where you see headlines of student debt? expensive healthcare? Drug epidemic? Gun violence? School shootings? The one that bombed countries for 20 years?
Oh you meant the US, ok. Gotcha
I'd love their form of government!
exsample?
How about not becoming a nanny state first?
Withe rise of the right, Trump and other RWNJ, we've got more chance of becoming a redneck wonderland, Apartheid Part 2 or a neo Nazi Paradise.We already have the apathy overload to deliver it
hard to say the future, but looks like the new gen isn't really that much into politicises like the old ones…………. and this is happening all over the world.
Yep. As a nation, the populous will just lube up and roll over
The future's bright only if it's right
If we don't veer left, there'll be nothing left.
If you want every body living armed to the teeth in prepper bunkers on a molten treeless, dead zone, keep the dream right is good dream alive.
If you still believe the 'humans can fix anything we destroy' mega-myth, good luck to you.
Impossible. We rely on the US for protection which means we must contribute. Our position on the planet necessitates protection and to pay for it ourselves would mean higher taxes. Right now we are protected by US nukes, the US would roll out carriers if we needed it, and they'd probably go to war with us if push comes to shove, which means no one is going to mess with us. It's like in prison, you suck the biggest guy's dick so you don't actually have to fight anyone yourself, no one will mess with you when you're America's bitch.
thing is, amercian had their golden age which is now coming to an end……..where to go next is anyone's guess
There's a lot of issues with America, their military standing and power projection are not near coming to an end.
Maybe there's an optic of it having slowed down because of the lack of major conflicts, operations being declassified and enough public info to gauge where things stand - but from a military standpoint nobody knows if the US is coming to the end of its golden years until the US screws up really badly and somehow falls behind what we expect from it.
Australia will eventually assimilate into Asia
Edmund Barton and Alfred Deakin were concerned with this, therefore they signed into law the Immigration Restriction Act in 1901 to combat this.
We will never be a neutral state, ever.
We are the only western country among the Asia pacific
You forgot New Zealand
And that's their defence policy, right there. Nobody is in their face. Nobody owns their arse.
because we don't belong Australia is a settler colonial state
All countries are colonial states.
Human history is one of peoples moving about.
Good
But why we join the Asian Tournament for soccer?
So what if we do ?
White Australia policy was about all races. Well all non white races.
In 1939, 97% of Australia was of British isle decent. Most of the remaining 3% were aboriginals. The demographic composition of Australia has changed to an extreme degree since then. An Australian now is somebody who lives on this island continent, but they have nothing else in common. Different tribes and identity groups competing for special privileges for their members.
I think you're confusing races and alliances.
In Asia, there are many different alliances. Many align with 'the West' and Australia, because of similar values of liberal democracy, freedom of speech, rule of law etc. like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan. There are also Asian countries with opposing values.
What do you mean we will 'assimilate into Asia'? Do you mean like the tectonic plates moving and Australia moving closer to the Asian mainland?
Last CHOGM majority voted against it
How about another poll option: A strategic alliance with China. America is a geriatric superpower, sick and in decline. China is the future.
Too logical. We are better off being owned,used,a waste dump,military base and wear a target on our back.
I have no interest in taking on their way of life. Which you understand is what would happen, right?
I guess a lot of "new" Australians came from that culture so would have a problem with it.
So many people have given their lives defending our way of life, and others are willing to just give it up.
"new"? we're all new lmao
Why do you think we would take on their way of life? What is their way of life?
Stop drinking the MSM kool aid, you have no idea what their way of life is.
some of us consider ourselves part of the Commonwealth.
So much criticism of us following US's direction, but you don't think that we would be influenced by China?
I don't want to know what their way of live is, and I don't want to find out by being immersed in it.
I think you're off on a tangent. I'm just saying countries have armies and make alliances to defend their way of life.
@SlickMick: The Australian 'way of life' was around for the better part of 50 years when it was majority white Australians.
There is no Australian way of life now, it's literally disappearing day by day.
If you want to really think about how Australian way of life has not progressed, you only need to look outside. Minimal improvements by the government. Terrible planning decisions to improve Citizen's lives. Less and less public services meanwhile taxes are up and up.
Australia having to bring more and more immigrations in to make the numbers, people who don't hold Australian values and aren't patriotic.
That's the way of life you're holding on to? We're just lucky country with resources in the ground.
@TightAl: Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about (well that's part of it).
I totally agree with everything you say. But some of us are still clinging to our roots. Just because everything's changing doesn't mean we have to accept it. Aussies are too chill to revolt, we just do our thing and watch the place go to hell around us.
@TightAl: I agree there is no Australia way of life now we just appear anywhere there is something happening.
The Chinese New year celebration is probably one of the biggest Aussie gathering apart from the Jan 26 lol
Bollocks. America's time may be over but that's far from certain - certainly impossible to call at the moment. China under that asshat Xi is a growing disaster. China may be the future but not with that moron and the rest of the CCP in power.
Even the smartest ppl in America (there's an oxymoron on steroids) have no idea if there's a way back from their cluster f****.
It turns out their 'precious' constitution has as much clarity as Jed Clampetts Texas tea.Every lawyer and every judge interprets every word differently.And every day every word gets more meanings. They have been making it up as they go along for so long it finally caught up to them. Xi can sit back and pick his nose when Trump gets in because more than half his job will be done. The cookers inside police,military etc will just bail to fight a home grown civil war, long before they get fried by China. So if Trump wins they are toast.If he doesn't they are toast.
Err, okay. I think.
@R4: TLDR, Any global conflict involving the USA is likely to get very ugly for America, at home & abroad, because Trump. Somebody else here mentioned they'd hate to imagine a place where those serving weren't loyal to the country and ruling govt. That's America today.
@Protractor: I quite like Donald Trump and if I was American, would have voted for him in 2016. I don't think I'd have voted for him in 2020, but I wouldn't have voted for Joe Biden either.
@R4: That's a theory, and nothing more, thanks to Trump.
The Rats in the Ranks were exposed in all levels of authority after the Jan riots.
I have no doubt you are a Trumpling.None at all.
isnt that happening already ?