So I've been working for a coles supermarket (victoria). never considered joining it before because I thought I wasn't going to be there that long…… 20 yrs later I'm still there!! I'm only thinking about it now because I'm getting old and tax reimbursements. Is it worth it?. Do u get it all back with tax?. Who is better sda or raffwu? I work 27hrs a week. Thanks!
Is It Worth Joining a Union?
Go Cat on 22/11/2023 - 12:31
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Well said, @lonewolf! I completely agree with your sentiment that people are more than happy to take advantage of the benefits the unions accomplished but don’t want to chip in or get organised themselves. It reminds me of the saying from G Michael Hopf: “ Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times”
I joined the union last year even though I’m the only employee in a small company in the country side that treats me very well. But I also know that a lot of people in my industry are in worse conditions and I view my membership as standing in solidarity with those who are worse off and perhaps cant afford the union dues or may not even be aware of their unions existence, perhaps due to language barriers or the suppression of union information in the media or their workplaces.
I fully support union organisation and the mass bargaining power that it grants to workers. You can’t complain about your working conditions if you refuse to join a union. In saying that, a bunch of Aussie unions have had severe issues in the past and it’s worth doing a bit of research before joining up
Yes, join your union!
Yes it is.
currently going through workers and they've been 0 help told me not to bother when it was accepted immediately
Is it worth joining a union? Yes
Is it worth joining SDA? Absolutely not.
Most useless union I have ever seen. 15 minutes break for a 5 hour shift and the last EBA penalty rates dropped for permanent workers (QLD). Only time they come near the place is when new employees arrive.
Penalty rate at Woollies are lower than when I started work 30 years ago.
Definitely join RAFFWU. On a personal basis, they can support you in issues at work, like roster disputes.
On a company wide level, they can act on company wide issues (like McDonalds failure to provide required 10min breaks) and bargain for us with EBAs - as they’re doing right now, though Coles has been refusing all claims. The only reason we have penalty rates now is because RAFFWU fought for them to be returned in our current EBA.As others have said, SDA has a long history of screwing over its members. At the moment, they’re advocating for a new EBA for bigw workers which reduces their rights, gives no sign on bonus and no pay rise until at least July 2024. And BigWs pay rate is only 11c above minimum wage.
Raffwu has been fighting against EBAs like that in all companies their members are in. The more members RAFFWU has and represents in bargaining the more bargaining power they have.
Yes , I got accused of playing golf on a sick day risking my 30k redundancy package. I was at home and my work colleague on leave was definitely playing golf with my house mate who was same height build and beard as me.
I had to have a rep come in and explain they had no evidence and they couldnt threaten my redundancy.
After the payout and at last staff party the GM came up and said why did I lie it would have just been a warning. He couldn't understand that we werent getting a payout from a 250k job and the 30k meant a lot when you didnt already have a job.
Unions are corrupt and work for their own benefits now.
They are in decline and some are in desperate condition to grab new members.
Great organisations if you want your money to pay for all sorts of causes that have no relevance at all to the members.
Honestly. I am so close to quitting my union because they continually bombard me with propaganda on causes that I totally disagree with.
They have very little focus on general employee rights.
Yep join the union… But also be active. Your union should be there for you, but also don't expect to be passive. From my point of view where people have had negative union experiences it's been when they have been members and just expected outcomes without trying to influence, input or manage those outcomes.
In that industry and a big supermarket i wouldnt bother your position should be secure unless you stuff up big time.
im a nurse. Until recently there was only 1 " union" . The anmf { theoretically the Australian midwifery and nurses federation; the members called it the anti nursing mother f@ckers}. It was basically an arm of the labor party. We were sold out time and again. Then around the covid time another union representing nurses came into existence, the Red Union. They were, and are so much better and just over 1/2 the cost.
Unions are corrupt, save your money
When I was young the only protection you had from the bosses was the union. You only got benefits because the union, and strikes, got it for you. There wasn't any question of not joining the union.
But over the years without exception each time I needed help for me personally I found the union was unenthusiastic and useless. That the officials were more interested in looking after the Labor Party and their careers in it than they were in helping me personally. If it wasn't something they could exploit politically they couldn't be bothered. That's what they seemed far more interested in that helping their members, supporting political issues.
And over the years government has provided more protections for workers and more mechanisms for individuals to get help with workplace matters.
Unions have gotten weeker and weeker. Fewer and fewer people are joining them. If I was still in the workplace I'm not so sure I'd bother joining one these days.
I'm sure there are many workplace benefits we should thank the union movement for. But we don't need to keep thanking them forever for things their parents got our parents.
It's pointless to join a retail union. Even if the union negotiate better award rates, you still get the benefit whether or not you are a member. There's barely going to be any benefit in joining as opposed to your current position. Don't buy into the whole "you receive the benefits of our labor, so pay your dues" crap, they don't care about you. The union fights for your dues, not for you; especially since their pay is reflective of their members. Delegates are just the laziest of the bunch that couldn't hack it but would rather spend the rest of their days whining.
Unions can only negotiate when they have the power of the workers behind them. The more members they have, the more bargaining power they have. Sure, everyone else gets the benefit too, but if no one joins, no one will listen to them.
If unions gave a 💩 about workers, they wouldn’t all be pro-immigration
the two items mentioned by you are separate…unions can help people and also at the same time support causes that are againsst people. Happens all the time.
Look at the governments… they do help people but as you say they are actively destroying Australia with their pro-immigration and other internationalist ideas.
I don’t think the elected Government gives a 💩 either.
"I don’t think
theany recent or future elected Government gives a 💩 either.@Protractor: Maybe the government doesnt give a shit ,but guess what the rest of the world gives even less shit about you.
Call Apple or Woolies im sure they will give you a free home and food or medical care.
Say what you want about the government past and present, but they have done far more for you and me, outside our family than corporations or anybody else.
Schools, hospitals, parks, swimming pools, all here because of the government… then again maybe you live in a different world..
Please tell me how many schools has Apple or Coca Cola got running in AU ?
@CowFrogHorse: It’s pretty obvious that we’d have developed schools, pools, and hospitools even had the Government not assumed those responsibilities back in the colonial days. Sadly, you seem to have missed the point: unions don’t serve their stated purpose (i.e. to serve the interests of workers). They have been wholly captured by the various industrial relations laws of this country.
@CommuterPolluter: commuter: It’s pretty obvious that we’d have developed schools, pools, and hospitools
cow:
In the past when rules were different, how many schools did they have in the ancient world for ordinary nobodies ?Basically zero, only the rich could afford to have private tutors, only the Alexander the Great could afford a tutor like Plato.
In AMerica where the government does far less about hospitals how well has that worked out ?
You arent comparing apples with apples.
I wouldnt call 1 in 100 kids ging to school a good or comparable result compared to 99 out of 100 kids in Australia going to school.
~
commuter: Sadly, you seem to have missed the point: unions don’t serve their stated purpose (i.e. to serve the interests of workers). They have been wholly captured by the various industrial relations laws of this country.
cow: I agree Unions seem to have lost their way, but they do help to some extent, without them the average Aussie would be far worse off.
Im not claiming perfection, im simply saying it helps the balance of things. Dont believe me look at America, far less Unions and people have it far worse.
I pay union fees to protect and enhance my rights. Unless it would benefit me and my colleagues to import labour, I expect my union to be neutral on the issue, or if it would be detrimental to my conditions, I expect them to be against it.
If you don't understand how the tax system works (FYI, I have always used an accountant for my tax return, no idea how it works and don't care) I'll make an assumption you haven't a big interest or understanding of your work agreement. I was +40 years a union member, they helped me get back pay from two companies and when I retired they helped me and got me full pay 8 months earlier than advised by HR.
Join the Union
Off topic, but thought this would be a good place to ask cause I'm sure there's a lot of Coles employees in this thread. Why are Coles attendants in the self service area and service desk all wearing ear pieces now? They seem to be talking into a microphone.
They recently added a whole bunch of self service kiosks to my local Coles and now it seems like I'm shopping amongst FBI agents dressed up in Coles uniforms
I've wondered if they have profiled shoppers and now have someone on camera duties to alert the staff in self service and the service desk?
The headsets are so we can call for help (customers being abusive/violent, more registers open, price checks, damaged item replacements, trolleys, etc) and to warn each other to keep an eye on some customers, either for theft or potential violence. In those cases, it's mostly that the customer is either well known for stealing or being abusive, or that they were seen grabbing massive amounts of meat and stuffing it into a bag.
If being warned about theft, we may just be more attentive when they go through (so they're less likely to skip scanning things) and make sure we note down details to be added to Aurora site (for theft/violence reporting). If we're be warned that they get violent easily, we know to not hover as that could set them off, but also to make sure that we're there to fix issues in ACO as soon as possible to reduce the chance of them getting pissed off.
Most of us have a developed a pretty good idea of who the regular crap customers are and how to handle them.Thanks for the insight. That all makes sense. My partner used to work at Coles. She guessed correctly in saying that they probably just getting with times and making communication across store easier.
What is the Aurora site?
It’s a site that businesses can use to report incidents of theft or abuse. Record time/date, what happened and any details about the person they can. I think the idea is that is can be accessed by other businesses and police so they can know who to look out for.
Not sure if it’s actually used for that though. On our end we’re just told to right down details for the manager to log later on. Our managers say that the more we report the more likely it is we’ll get security. I doubt we ever will though no matter what we report. Unless we’re actually robbed, in which case there may be a guard for a couple days before going back to normal.@DoaAn: Thanks! My local Coles in Footscray, Melbourne, is pretty rough. There's always a security guard or two.
Its also so they dont put extra staff on, We actually used to always have an extra member like a supervisor free on the floor to help out like dealing with Customer enquiries, fixing registers
stuff ups ….so now we have to multitask from a register!!
It’s a personal decision, but I would never join a union, I don’t agree with strikes that’s not how you get a pay rise and union workers for the most part are just lazy.
Unions are the reason why things like paid annual leave exist btw.
How do you think we can get pay rises then? If unions are resorting to strikes is because the company has already refused pay rises or other claims during bargaining.
Also, you do realise that strikes are exactly what led to the better working conditions (like 8hr work day) and pay rates in the past?
Very much depends on industry I think. Unions have largely been neutered since the 1980s as we march on towards modern slavery, however in some industries they still do have clout.
1000 other things you could get better for 500$ don't waste your money.
How much time do you spend commuting and in traffic every week ?
How much is your time worth per hour ?
How much are you getting paid for your commuting and sitting in traffic ?
From my experience, the Unions are good if something needs to be done as a collective, like wage negotiation, employee benefits and health and safety. But if you have to deal with the employer personally, then you're pretty much on your own and found the Union reps useless.
People and culture said would get a review and meeting
Never happened
Got tiny pay increase and not reason given why
Notified union
Union said it's fineCoworker got a larger payrise and gave notice a fortnight later. Yet I'm in a union and was screwed, and union didn't care.
Who do you think made workers rights a real and legal thing. ?
DO yu know what rights workers had 200 years ago ?
DO you know what made it change for the better ?
I believe in the idea/theory of unionisation but the reality rarely delivers. They also charge way too much for what you get.
Perhaos but what are the alternatives ?
Before the modern trade union of the last 150 years, can you tell me of the winning situation of workers in the old days ?
Can you elaborate about workers rights, sick pay, injury compensation ?
I think you arent looking at th ebig picture, and thinking small.
Absolutely worthwhile. Helped me massively when I was starting out in the workforce as an electrical apprentice. Saved me from a vindictive manager that I reported for endangering our apprentices.
What you mean by tax reimbursements ?
Don’t consider SDA. worthless and look at the agreements they made. Lowest paid workers and made work like slaves
This is an age old question, are unions perfect? no, but I still think they're worth joining. I can understand why some people don't like them.
My union job got me a 10% salary increase this year, my misso go nothing, literally nothing and can't do anything about it other than try and find another job, but she's pregnant so nobody would take her on if we tried.
Unions are like a condom for your boss, the more they say you don't need one, the more you probably need one.
This may be a fiction or non fiction narrative….
"I USED to be a unionist. Joined for the professional development they offered. Not the support. Yes it is fully tax deductible. Just as well.
They unfortunately seem to have sold out and there seems to be a lot of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. They claim to support their members however, you have to fit perfectly into their cookie cutter ideals. The amount of people who thought they would have the support of their union only to find out they didn't, surprised me at first. Then more and more members started to tell the same story. The union I was in gave me MLM meeting vibes…love you until you grow a brain.
As this didn't align with my core values, I ended up putting all the money I usually spent on union fees into a high interest savings account which then has allowed me to purchase goods posted on ozbargain in the black Friday sales.
Wouldn't touch unions now if you paid me.
On a side note, you do not need a union to prove ageism if that is your worry.
Union fees are really expensive. You would need to have a significant case against your employer, and win it, to justify the expense.
I joined because I knew I was going to have conflict. But it's chewing through lots of money and any resolution would never compensate what it cost me.
My wife did need union to fight a case for her, but they totally screwed it. She got a substantial pay out, but 1/10th of what it should have been, and didn't actually fix the problem going forward.I'd say the unions I've dealt with are next to useless and certainly aren't worth what they cost.
ps. My principle is that people should have a skill to provide, and workers need to bid against each other to acquire your skill. If you aren't a good negotiator, use an agent.
The only reason for working for someone else is it's more convenient than running your own business.But these days we think of a job as an entitlement and employers owe us something. No wonder some employers see employees as slaves and employees need unions and/ or governments to try to balance employee rights.
I know people who didn't get an education, don't have skills that employers are looking for, and just complain that there is no work for them. Surely it is an individual's responsibility to find something they can do to contribute to society??
I have been a worker, an employer, and managed large businesses.
In my opinion, every worker should be in a union.
Good employers do not fear unions. If they are doing everything legally and respect staff, then they can have a good relationship with unions.
I have seen many people paid incorrectly. People who have been fired illegally. People who have been injured at work and treated badly by workcover and employers.
An employer has access to HR departments and lawyers. What do workers have? Don't fall into the trap of thinking that FairWork will protect you. Union membership gives you resources to use to protect your job, income and protect your family. It is tax-deductible, and they often include other things like free ambulance cover, shopping discounts etc. If it wasn't for unions, we would not have the 38-hour week, and pay would be much lower.
But what have the unions ever done for us?
Well apart from the 38 hour working week
And penalty rates
And annual leave entitlements
And parental leave
And domestic violence leave
And supporting you with any dispute with management
(Please continue fellow Monty Python fans)
Never give any union a cent of your money or a second of your time. They are irrelevant in 2023, if anything, counter-productive in order to stay relevant. In reality they're run by overindulged bigots who couldnt give a toss about the common worker
No, they are mostly run by thugs. The union talks about fighting for all, but if you're not with them, then you're against them. They will intimidate and threaten you until you join or leave.
Like many have said - there was a time unions actually were useful and did stuff.
My personal involvement with two different unions and when crunch time came and I needed them was both times - meh, sorry we can't be bothered helping.
People seem to have this die hard mantra that "OH BETTER BE WITH THE UNION THEY CAN PROTECT YOU" but in reality, they're happy to get their fat fees and do the bare minimum.
I remember saying - well can I get my fees back then? - to which they laughed and said no.
You should speak to your union delegate and ask them what benefits they offer before joining?
Is it the United Workers Union?
You'd be surprised at what you can get for free.
You get referrals from your union for free legal advice, free Wills, and any legal/contract/industrial matters etc.
Especially important if you were to make a workers compensation claim or if you got injured at work.
Lets say you were underpaid, or overpaid, or not paid, you have a union fighting for you for fair pay, fair condtions and leave entitlements!You'd be surprised at what you can get for free.
You don't get anything from a Union for free, you pay them money every week and that money is used to occasionally provide you with access to things. More often than not though, if push comes to shove and you need any real help or legal advice/coverage, all Unions will immediately drop you like a hot potato.
important if you were to make a workers compensation claim or if you got injured at work.
That's done though relevant state authorities in Australia and Unions don't involve themselves in that process.
Lets say you were underpaid, or overpaid, or not paid, you have a union fighting for you for fair pay, fair conditions and leave entitlements!
Most Unions actually work with employers against the employees. Just have a look at the staggering amount of union bosses who went on to become executives of the companies they were previously "fighting against" to supposedly get better pay & rights for their union members, only to win them absolutely nothing of value or even an increase in pay meeting basic CPI. Or just have a look at the ridiculous number of Unions who actively worked alongside state governments and authorities to actively keep their members jobless and unemployed during the Covid times, even snitching on them to police if they were working outside of permitted/suggested times & areas.
Thank you for this post. There are some unions that are better, but true sc@bags, like cfmeu and anmf are the pits.
I think the bigger issue here is you don't know how tax works, your hrs and hence i presume you arnt high up.
You need to think about retirement. Tbh i have no idea how are surviving
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@SlickMick: Part of the problem is though that Unions dont have nearly as much power as they once did which is because a lot less people join the unions and arent active union members who go to meetings and vote / tell them what they want. The other issue is media / politics etc have removed a lot of powers from the unions in favour of big corporations. And also i am sure in some unions there is also a level of corruption that gets in the way.