How Often Do You Make a Shifting Error - Manual Drivers Only

Mintee on 19/11/2023 - 15:32

Hello

Im curious for the manual drivers out there; how often you make a shifting error. I've got myself back into manual after 2 years of not driving one.

Rusty for the first week, but now I'm genuinely okay. Today though, tired as, just came off the clutch wayyyyyy to quick so got a nice jerk. Not the end of the world, it wasn't a money shift :P

Things like:
- Wrong gear
- Clutch too fast
- Stall

Im just curious even those more experienced drivers, is an error here and there common? or is it me still getting into my groove. If so are we talking once a week, month, year?

Automotive

Comments

  • Some Human on 19/11/2023 - 15:40
    +88

    Only ever happens when there's someone else in the car. You tell them that it never happens when you're driving by yourself and they're like, "sure…"

    • Dreamcast on 21/11/2023 - 22:55

      Thank you. I feel better now.

  • Gunnar on 19/11/2023 - 15:45
    +3

    You’re getting back into it, expect it to happen. Plus it also happens when you’re on a new car. Get yourself used to manual and the car’s quirks, transmission, and clutch, and you’ll be okay after a little while

  • timthetoolman on 19/11/2023 - 15:49
    +39

    just came off the clutch wayyyyyy to quick so got a nice jerk

    BRB, taking my wife for a drive

    • MS Paint on 19/11/2023 - 16:11
      +7

      How'd you go? 20 minutes should have been enough.

      • LFO on 20/11/2023 - 12:37
        +1

        20 minutes should have been enough

        Enough of driving the wife or enough of re-adaptation?

        :-

        • HeWhoKnows on 20/11/2023 - 14:31
          -1

          Good question…

          Muzeeb????

        • Munki on 22/11/2023 - 15:49

          19 minutes readapting and 1 minute of blissful riding the wife.

          1 minute in heaven is better than no minutes in heaven baby.

  • sumyungguy on 19/11/2023 - 15:54
    +16

    Nominal rate of human error for repetitive manual tasks is 1–2%, so you should be aiming for that. One less than perfect shift per 100.

      • Euphemistic on 20/11/2023 - 20:24
        +9

        That’s why it’s a nominal rate. That’s a different way of saying average. It seems you have noticed we aren’t all the same, now combine that with the average of 1-2%.

      • FlyingMiffy on 21/11/2023 - 17:09
        +1

        A bit old school there with gender and ethnic origin. Whats next? A claim that aryan roots is superior in taking a dump too?

    • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 15:08
      +5

      Every 100 steps you trip over??

      • Euphemistic on 21/11/2023 - 16:16

        It’s an average. It’s not a law that says you have to do 99 and then you screw one up.

        I wouldn’t be surprised that if you walked to the mailbox 100 times at least one of those you stepped ‘a bit off’ at some point.

        • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 16:30
          +1

          Walking to the mailbox 100 times is much more than 100 steps though. Lets say 100 steps x 100 mailbox visits = 10,000 steps.

          One trip in 10,000 steps sounds a lot more reasonable.

          • Euphemistic on 21/11/2023 - 16:33
            +2

            @trapper: I’m sure it also depends on the complexity of the task. Walking is not at all complex. The 1% is probably for manual tasks that require multiple steps to complete eg change gear in a manual.

            • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 16:52
              +2

              @Euphemistic: Walking is actually a rather complex task. It involves numerous muscles working in coordination, and it takes us a considerable amount of time to learn as children. However, this doesn't stop us from becoming very proficient at it.

              Similar to many other complex tasks, with enough practice, it becomes second nature and can be performed without conscious thought.

              For instance, changing gears in a manual car.

    • badmedicine on 23/11/2023 - 14:10

      Some cars are also much less forgiving than others too…

  • bobbified on 19/11/2023 - 15:58
    +1

    … just came off the clutch wayyyyyy to quick so got a nice jerk. Not the end of the world,

    Try this on a big bike and see if it may well be the end of your world! haha

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 19/11/2023 - 16:14
      +5

      When I was still in my teens, did this with a mate's brand new Triumph Bonneville while dropping a U-turn. Almost put it into a power pole. He was standing up the street not daring to look. First non-Japanese bike I'd ever ridden, first with a capacity bigger than a sedate Yamaha 500 twin.

      • bobbified on 19/11/2023 - 16:17
        +2

        Glad that wasn't the end of your world! haha

      • MS Paint on 19/11/2023 - 16:26

        I rode a KX250F for years then had a go on a WR45OF. The clutch adjustment was completely different to mine and I was not expecting so much bottom end power. Change of underwear also required like Roltsy boy.

  • MS Paint on 19/11/2023 - 16:20
    +16

    If your car is less than 15 years old and just a mass produced run of the mill car it's almost impossible to miss shift and stall.

    A 6 speed manual will centre on gears 3/4 and a little pressure to the left for 1/2 and to the right for 5/6. Due to large throw shifters and using a basic shifting wrist pressure technique it's almost impossible to f#@k it up.

    The clutch is a different matter as the bite point can be different on every car. Most modern manuals are quite forgiving though and you can take off in 1st gear gently without even touching the accelerator (on level ground). Most modern manuals even have brake hold for hills so as to minimise stalling.

    Source: never owned an automatic car in my life.

    • Brick Tamland on 20/11/2023 - 17:58
      +4

      Hill hold assist is magic in a manual car.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/11/2023 - 13:47

        When I bought my current car (2010 WRX) at the beginning of 2020, I hadn't driven a manual since the 2000's.
        Finding out it had hill hold assist was a whole new world.

        • domadgee on 21/11/2023 - 15:29
          -3

          Until you find yourself replacing your rear brakes more often than usual and join the dots

          • Euphemistic on 21/11/2023 - 16:17
            +1

            @domadgee: What? Tell me you don’t know what hill start assist is without telling me you don’t know what hill start assist is.

            • domadgee on 21/11/2023 - 16:23
              -4

              @Euphemistic: Those systems increase brake wear. On my Ford Focus ST I was replacing my rear pads every 6-7 months. Since disabling I can safely replace every 2-3 years. Owned it for 7.

              Doesn't require knowledge on how it works, in my experience it increased wear.

              • Euphemistic on 21/11/2023 - 16:38

                @domadgee: Not my experience from a few vehicles. No difference in wear. How many kms were you going to wear out pads in under a year? And how many times on the track?

                Plus my understanding is that it’s purely a line locker activated via the ABs pump that is released when the clutch pedal is released. It doesn’t drag the brakes at all and probably uses all 4 too. You’d get more wear using a manual cable operated handbrake.

                • CurlCurl on 22/11/2023 - 16:20

                  @Euphemistic:

                  You’d get more wear using a manual cable operated handbrake.

                  My 4X4 has separate pads fir the hand brake.

                  • Euphemistic on 22/11/2023 - 16:49

                    @CurlCurl: And those pads will get extra wear if you’re doing hill starts because you’ll likely be dragging the brake a little more than any hill start assist feature. But they are designed for it, so you aren’t affecting the design life.

                    • CurlCurl on 22/11/2023 - 18:27

                      @Euphemistic: And those pads will get extra wear if you’re doing hill starts because you’ll likely be dragging the brake a little more than any hill start assist feature. But they are designed for it, so you aren’t affecting the design life.

                      After having three manual 4X4s my 4th vehicle is auto.

              • Dreamcast on 21/11/2023 - 22:57
                +1

                @domadgee: Please move over to automatic.

                • domadgee on 22/11/2023 - 07:52
                  +1

                  @Dreamcast: Righto codge, I'll list my car for sale today and move into a new Prius just for you xoxo

              • johnno07 on 22/11/2023 - 07:59
                +2

                @domadgee:

                Doesn't require knowledge on how it works, in my experience it increased wear.

                Ah yes. The pseudoscientific method in action.

          • [Deactivated] on 21/11/2023 - 17:43
            +4

            @domadgee: Your vehicle is stationary, how on earth is it wearing down the pads? It's just holding it in place. No different to having your foot on the brake.

            Yeah no.

      • skillet on 22/11/2023 - 09:18

        What happens if a manual car driver gets used to hill hold assist, then drives a car without one?

        • Euphemistic on 22/11/2023 - 10:44
          +1

          You fluff it a few times, then get used to the manual brake again. Although, most drivers are probably adept enough to not need the hand brake unless it’s quite steep.

        • Brick Tamland on 22/11/2023 - 11:34

          Tears, hissy fit and screaming.

        • fatpizza on 22/11/2023 - 12:15

          Dashcams shenanigans.

      • airtime on 23/11/2023 - 07:57

        Curious; how does hill hold assist work?

        What sort of sensors are involved and what vehicle systems? Is there an Angle of Attack sensor? Assume it's the brakes that are used to provide the 'hold'?

        Given manual transmissions cars for 30+ years and never had one with hill hold but wish I did :) Would save a bit of heel-toeing, or in my case foot siding (I have w-i-d-e feet).

        • Brick Tamland on 23/11/2023 - 08:20
          +1

          I think it's a pretty basic system. When you let off the brake it keeps pressure in the brake lines momentarily. It also lets go fairly quick so you aren't really dragging the brakes.

  • GordonD on 19/11/2023 - 16:49
    +1

    Had a problem years ago in my current car where I ended up in 5th when I needed 3rd to accelerate into gaps in traffic. Its embarrassing when the truck behind you has to slam on its brakes to avoid running up your arse. It makes you look like an idiot driver. Turned out it wasn't me. When they'd put a new timing belt in the car they'd damaged an engine mount, and the engine and transmission were moving too much under power, misaligning the gear linkages.

    I'll always remember my old Mazda. Front engine. RWD. No gear linkages. Gear lever went straight into the gearbox. I shortened it for quicker shifting. Without a rev limiter to protect it I could flat shift it. Leave your foot flat on the throttle, run it up to the rev limit, and shift to the next gear so fast it barely picked up any revs.

    I'll also always remember my Honda trail bike. Dropped the clutch too fast. I'd never done a wheelie until then.

    The high and sharp bite point for the clutch on my car sometimes catches me. It makes for quick shifts but slow starts. You let the clutch out and there's nothing, then there's still nothing, then all of a sudden it bites, and you have to have just a bit of throttle exactly then. But not too much. In the old Mazda you could just select first, release the clutch, and it'd idle off down the street.

  • Euphemistic on 19/11/2023 - 17:22
    +1

    I’ve been driving manual cars since last century. My current manual owned for about 18months. Still muck up a gear change maybe couple of times a month. Mucking up is not serious, just not thinking properly, generally while distracted by a passenger conversation. By mucking up I mean not picking the correct gear after slowing down too high or too low, timing the clutch/throttle a bit wrong and just not being smooth. Serous gear error? Haven’t made a serious error on gear change for ages.

    On the flip side, couple of times in the last year I’ve hopped in our auto car, that I regularly drive, and jammed the brakes on when ‘pressing the clutch ready to downshift’. Again, mostly when tired or distracted by other people in the car.

    Don’t seem to have issues finding reverse despite it being opposite side of the gearbox on two cars I’ve driven regularly in the last year. Top left vs bottom right and push the stick in vs pull the collar up.

    What I still haven’t got used to is the electronic park brake or the push button start/stop thats on the opposite side of the wheel than the where the key has been since I started driving.

  • CurlCurl on 19/11/2023 - 18:56

    Drove trucks in my early days, some with two speed diffs. Could be in one of 15 different trucks on any day. Various Internationals, Dodge, Bedord, 1418 Mercedes, Commer Knocker or a Ford. Usually took 3 to 4 minutes to sort it and no drama for the rest of the day.

  • Benoffie on 19/11/2023 - 20:18

    Depends on the car and my familiarity with it. Some are smooth rides, some are just trying to kill you.

    I only tend to stuff up when Im skipping gears and the ratio isnt where I expected it to be. Also, when Im riding the clutch but the pedal isnt adjusted to where Id like it. Just have to work it out and deal with it tbh.

    Overall, no issues in cars I regularly drive. I grew up driving a mixed bag (first car was a long stick manual), so I use the palming method vs grasp.

  • billadm on 19/11/2023 - 21:29

    Unfortunately some cars have factory shifting fault issues.
    My car has this problem but I've been driving manual for too many years and I know when the gear is not shifting so I take my time and try it again.

    • Mintee on 19/11/2023 - 21:45
      +1

      No no… theres absolutely nothing wrong with my car…..

  • pegaxs on 20/11/2023 - 07:58

    The only one I have trouble with is the truck at work, which has 18 gears to shuffle through. Sometimes I get lost. I can’t do all that cool down shifting and calculating what gears I need to jump.

  • BrettSh on 20/11/2023 - 08:11
    +3

    Been driving manuals for more than 40 years. Still stall it maybe once every several weeks.

    Hate to admit it, but my wife (who also drives a manual) is a better driver.

  • kraigg on 20/11/2023 - 08:28

    I still do it accidentally at least once or two a week,
    even though I've been driving manual for the past couple of decades. It's usually letting go of the clutch too quickly, or the occasional stall while waiting at the lights if I have the AC on.

  • Lanushi on 20/11/2023 - 09:04

    I stall once every fortnight if I'm unlucky. And almost daily, don't time the transition right into 1st. In my defence, I have a pretty high clutch

  • 82norm on 20/11/2023 - 09:29

    On another topic….who uses gear changes to slow down? I do, but a mechanic mate argued it’s cheaper the replace brake pads than a clutch….Not keen on overheating brakes on a steep descent either.

    • CurlCurl on 20/11/2023 - 10:35

      On another topic….who uses gear changes to slow down? I do, but a mechanic mate argued it’s cheaper the replace brake pads than a clutch….Not keen on overheating brakes on a steep descent either.

      Driving a diesel 4WD the engine braking is far superior to a petrol engine. At the foot of the Blue Mountains in western Sydney is a decent descent called Lapston Hill. Even though my vehicle is automatic I drop it down to 4th gear. Don't touch the brakes all the way down. What I see ahead is a see of brake lights from top to bottom.

    • Chandler on 20/11/2023 - 15:17
      +1

      I do. Good point on the clutch replacement vs brake pads. Having said that, my car is ~11 years old and I don't think I've replaced the clutch…

      • MS Paint on 20/11/2023 - 16:28
        +1

        If you don't ride or drop the clutch you can get a bloody long life out of it.

    • Dreamcast on 21/11/2023 - 23:17
      +1

      Generally I'll use the brakes. But do love to rev match on the down shift. Especially from 4th to 3rd.

      The exhaust noise 💦

    • jrowls on 22/11/2023 - 02:50
      +2

      you're a fool if you're not using engine braking to slow down. the clutch is designed to do that and has a longer design life than brakes. as long as you're not shifting into second from 5th at 80km/h and holding the clutch at bite point til you slow down, that is.

      shift through all your gears with a short transition and let the engine slow the car down once the gear is engaged. rev matching if you want to be clever, but it's not necessary.

    • Lichen6420 on 22/11/2023 - 12:29

      I downshift but I don't downshift into 1st as it's a not a nice transition unless you hit exactly the right rev in my car, it's a very short gear so I can't be bothered. I just coast neutral out of 2nd.

      My car is 13 years old, still on original clutch and stuff all wear. Comes down to how you drive, if you clutch coast or drawl out the clutch on each shift or ride the balance point at the lights or until you hit the right revs downshifting your going to wear it out.

      I do admittedly make the odd error when I'm over tired, my usual is throwing it into 5th instead of 3rd. Which doesn't matter too much, just a sudden loss of power.

      Might stall two or three times a year.

  • md333 on 20/11/2023 - 13:56

    Just rented a car in Greece and definitely had more than usual misshifts, brain knows what to do, but doesn't happen automatically with the right hand like it does with the left.
    6 speed with a lockout for reverse doesn't help either. Amazing that you can quite quickly start automatically pulling the lockout, allowing yourself to accidentally engage reverse.

  • Noppy on 20/11/2023 - 14:23

    Maybe once a fortnight to month on the motorbike, push bike way more often

    • jrowls on 22/11/2023 - 02:51

      ugh, once a trip for me on the motorbike. my bike is sensational in almost every way but it's very prone to false neutrals. can be very embarrassing haha.

  • this is us on 20/11/2023 - 17:47

    Manual driver these days is every driver who is not driving a self-driving car… 😂

  • Brick Tamland on 20/11/2023 - 18:02

    Been back in a manual for almost a year now. First month driving selected wrong gear twice, opps. Now mistakes are rare, sometimes I will let the clutch up to fast and it will be a bit unhappy or slow down to much and it will lurch. Nothing major. It happens.

  • WT on 20/11/2023 - 19:00

    only when im lazy, but I fked up last week thinking I could be in 3rd when I should have been in 2nd

    in true lazy style I didnt shift down but I was around our area which is pretty slow anyways

    last time I stalled it, I cant remember, probably on the dirt bike but was more a flame out (single cyl, low rpm, not enough clutch slip)

  • bhubb18 on 20/11/2023 - 22:25

    Depends really.

    Pretty rarely stall it, but I drive a 80s mazda which also idles super high so its super forgiving. Clutch action is super easy

    I sometimes change into the wrong gear, but it does have some pretty sloppy shifter bushes too. Its a very forgiving car though.

    I learned to drive with an AU falcon with a SUPER heavy cable clutch so I think that made me learn the hard way about clutch control

    • SoapyWooder on 21/11/2023 - 13:10

      How much idling rpm?

      • bhubb18 on 25/11/2023 - 15:18

        Depends how it feels on day. Sometimes ~1k, sometimes ~1500.
        Its a digital dash, and I think theres some vacuum leaks haha

    • Dreamcast on 21/11/2023 - 23:15

      Series 2 Rx7 🤔

      • bhubb18 on 25/11/2023 - 15:19

        Close, but less brappy
        1987 Mazda 929 turbo
        Has a billion vacuum lines and throttle body fuel injection, so probably just has some vacuum leaks and other questionable shenanigans going on

  • HerpinDerp on 21/11/2023 - 13:29
    +1

    I once money shifted my Evo 6.5 deceling off a highway/

    I don't know what my brain or arm was doing, but I managed a 5 to 2 lmao.

    Short shifter and a really short gear ratio didn't help.

    Car survived. Brain had a check engine light.

  • May4th on 21/11/2023 - 13:29

    I'm an auto driver and I'm here because I could

  • figarow on 21/11/2023 - 13:39

    About 3 times a year

  • [Deactivated] on 21/11/2023 - 13:49

    Drove manual for over 10 years, then switched to automatic in 2012/2013, switched back to manual in 2020.
    Took a little while to get used to it again but got there in the end.
    I still make mistakes, it's natural. Expect it to happen every now and again.
    I also ride motorcycles, so every now and again I get stuck in neutral switching between first/second gear. Also fun haha.

  • RSmith on 21/11/2023 - 14:06

    Never make mistakes.

    Drove a manual after around 7-8 years last month and surprisingly didn't make any mistakes. It feels quite natural to me as I learnt driving on a manual and drove manual cars for first 14-15 years of my driving life.

  • ribze1 on 21/11/2023 - 14:34

    Haven't had a manual for 5 years but rarely made any errors. I think i stalled it less than 5 times in my life, i probably had a tendency to overrev it in order not to.

  • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 15:13
    +1

    Almost never under normal circumstances.

    • Brick Tamland on 21/11/2023 - 16:05

      Check out Mr/Ms Perfect over here

      • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 16:22

        lol, normal driver is 'Mr Perfect'

  • JayM on 21/11/2023 - 16:43

    I probably stall once a year and kangaroo hop once a year too.

    Manual is the best!

  • Cgyun2014 on 21/11/2023 - 17:53

    Flag it and later

  • dcash on 21/11/2023 - 18:52

    Close enough to never.

  • drprox on 21/11/2023 - 19:32

    Essentially never

  • Commander Shepard on 21/11/2023 - 19:48

    Pretty much never.

    If I do make a mistake. Its generally when the gearbox is cold. But I have never overrevd or missed a gear when down shifting.

    S2000 owner.

  • jzdhgkd on 21/11/2023 - 19:48

    I haven't driven a manual in 5 years but before that I had a DC5R for 12 years (on the same factory clutch.)

    I reckon I'd make a mistake once or twice a week, mainly during boring commuting and shifting lazily. I'd grind a gear or forget to downshift and lug the engine at as the light turns green.

    During more involving driving though, probably almost never! Focus and concentration makes a big difference compared to listening to the radio haha

  • Seraphin7 on 21/11/2023 - 20:07

    Very rare. Once or twice a year, tops.

  • BobLim on 21/11/2023 - 20:53

    Very rarely, on some occasions a cold gearbox is hard to get into 2nd so I'm stuck for a bit trying to get it if I really need it pottering around at low speed, such as carparks (often I just do 1-3-5 or 1-3-6 though).

    Stall maybe once every 1-3 years. The last couple I remember were mostly something to do with unexpected lumps or up/down slopes while changing directions in a 3-point turn I think

    • nobro25 on 21/11/2023 - 23:07

      Pretty much the same as you. Stall every one to three years. Accept mines more silly at traffic lights. Just as the revs go too far down and I thought I had it on neutral.

  • fredk1000 on 21/11/2023 - 21:25

    Depends on the car, some cars are more forgiving and less likely to stall. Once you get used to the car you should be fine.
    Just don't grind the gears, slip the clutch too much.

  • Dreamcast on 21/11/2023 - 23:12

    When someone cuts me off, etc and I lose my shit/lose focus while down shifting and crunch… Or just miss shift. Thankfully very very rarely.

    Random but not often brain farts which leads to letting go of the clutch too quick.

    Rarely stall. Tis been a while.

    I daily a 2016 sti, which has a high friction point on the clutch. I bought a Celica ST205 GT-Four and the friction point is low. So would release the clutch quickly and hold up high, as I was used to the sti. The Celica would just snap forward. I'd then get used to the Celica and then jump into the sti and would ride the living day lights out of the clutch. I wasn't driving the celica much at first. After 3 proper drives, muscle memory kicked in and don't have that issue when quickly changing between two cars.

    Good thing I never relied on hill start though.

    Manual can be a hassle sometimes, but it's worth it. Never owned an auto and only driven auto 5 or so times. I genuinely suck at driving auto :/

    • trapper on 21/11/2023 - 23:24
      +1

      Yeah I love manual, the vehicle really feels like an extension of your body. Precise control and it reacts instantly.

      Rather than this weirdly delayed, driving-simulator type feeling you get with an auto.

      • GordonHanley on 22/11/2023 - 09:43

        I don't know which I prefer but definitely relate to that delayed feeling in autos

  • apple2016 on 22/11/2023 - 10:52

    Wrong gear - no
    Clutch too fast - happens sometimes
    Stall - very rare.

  • ninjadefuse on 22/11/2023 - 11:30

    My car has a terrible shifter. It's connected to the gearbox using cables and some shifts miss even if you do everything perfectly.

  • tommo0468 on 22/11/2023 - 11:52

    Hmm I'd say I stall maybe twice a year (always when someone else is in the car). Have a missed gear maybe once every couple of weeks.

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