New Outrageous Surcharge at GP

spammingb on 25/09/2023 - 14:14
Last edited 25/09/2023 - 17:55 by 1 other user

Went to my usual GP today and noticed they introduced a new 1.5% card surcharge. On top of the new gap fee they've introduced.

All good, that's normal these days. However, my consultation today also included a small procedure fee. So the total out of pocket is $49 exactly.

They charged me $133.72 (inc surcharge to my card). Without surcharge it's $131.74. There is a $82.74 Medicare rebate. However, the rebate obviously doesn't include the surcharge which is on the ENTIRE amount, not just the out of pocket cost. Therefore my total out of pocket cost is closer to $51.

Unethical? Essentially the surcharge cost on this transaction is now closer to 4.1%, considering my initial out of pocket was $49 exactly.

Is Credit Card Surcharge at GP Unethical?

Poll Options

  • 176
    Yes
  • 435
    No
Health & Beauty

Comments

    • ssfps on 26/09/2023 - 20:22
      +1

      Plenty of GPs refuse to accept cash since the hysteria of 2020-2022

      • groot on 27/09/2023 - 13:01

        Then consumer just have to bear the cost of surcharge unless RBA take some actions.

        • ssfps on 27/09/2023 - 23:49

          Of course we have to bear the cost, the point of the thread was whether it's unethical. So you think if the ACCC allows something, that makes it ethical? Interesting.

          • groot on 02/10/2023 - 10:32
            +1

            @ssfps: I am against any surcharge. ~2% surcharge for connivence of tap and go .. it too much. Every vendor must allow both cash and card tx. Vendor must also tell any extra cost associated with Card Tx and let customer choose how to pay.

            I am just saying, Au is moving toward cashless society and ACCC is supporting it , so consumer has to pay and has no say on it.

  • yamahamoto on 26/09/2023 - 14:37
    +1

    Now run a private atm next to the gp and charges $1.50 per withdrawal to undercut them

    • aidenh37 on 26/09/2023 - 22:20

      Yup, if they want cash, give them cash - and wait until they double back after they realise how much extra work it takes to reconcile.

  • penguincat on 26/09/2023 - 14:39
    +1

    The doctor clinic I go to started charging for EFTPOS back in in 2021. Big signs up everywhere saying "All transactions needs to be paid via a card as to not share germs."
    Card fees are 1.8% if you pay via EFTPOS/Visa/Mastercard. The excuse given for the fee is due to the system automatically processing the medicare rebate. That it costs them money to do it. I thought print out the receipt and I'll do it myself. Then thought knowing them they will have a paper receipt fee of 1.9%.
    I feel like I won the lottery jackpot when I get told "it will be bulk-billed today."

    • aidenh37 on 26/09/2023 - 22:20

      Illegal. You cannot charge surcharges if you only accept card.

      • penguincat on 27/09/2023 - 01:49

        If that is true that doesn't surprise me. The clinic has done some suspect stuff over the years. The manager is quite a something.
        If you point out something they did /do wrong they pull out the if you don't withdraw your comment or be quiet about it they will ban you.

        I've always wanted to leave a 1 star review for what they did to me. But even if I posted it anonymously to the clinic google/facebook pages they would figure out it was me as it was unique and likely done out of spite.

        • aidenh37 on 27/09/2023 - 11:18

          Why don't you switch doctors? That's pretty bad and not the kind of doctor I'd want to be seeing

          • penguincat on 27/09/2023 - 15:53

            @aidenh37: The fee they charge to transfer records is between $300 and $500. Also no guarantee the new place will be better. Id be lucky to get a spot 2 new medical centres have opened in my area since. Both are at capacity as well as all existing ones.

            The short version is. I was charged over 100% more then what I should have.
            My out of pocket for a 30min standard consultation was nearly $200 (Original charge $260 - $72 rebate) They then entered in the wrong MBS number then blamed me. Medicare is rejecting it you have to get that fixed up yourself seems your not registered.
            The rejection code was the doctor wasn't registered for that MBS they where claiming for. Wasn't due to me not being registered.
            I wasn't able to get any sort of apology or reason for the original $260 charge. But after about 2 months I was able to get them to edit the receipt so I was able to claim the $72 rebate back.

            I did transfer to a new doctor in the same clinic and told them all about it. It was like a ghost appeared behind me. "No way they should have done that. If they pull something like that again knock on the door and come get me my room is next to reception as you know. I'll either get you an answer or get it fixed up. Clearly something went wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if it was done out of spite. This place is just like that sometimes."

        • greatlamp on 28/09/2023 - 22:35

          It's a medical clinic though. If they have actually done something wrong you can report them to the regulator, not just google reviews.

          They also aren't allowed to charge an extortionate fee to transfer your records, only to cover their reasonable costs. That in itself can be reported to AHPRA

  • endolphin on 26/09/2023 - 14:40

    In the past I have had sort of the opposite situation where I had paid in full using my HSBC debit card and gotten 2.0% cash back, and then swiped a different debit card for a fair chunk of the amount refunded via Medicare (based on the amount pre cashback).

    But it wasn't worth of a whole post.

  • mountaineer on 26/09/2023 - 15:58
    +1

    Just go to anther GP practice charge you nothing then. This is what I did. You cannot afford it then you switch, you can then stay put…

  • DealhunterMelbourne on 26/09/2023 - 16:36

    Seems fair enough to me, provided they advised you of the card surcharge before you paid. They're charged the fee by their transaction processor on the full amount you pay them. The medicare rebate after that is a separate transaction, nothing to do with the initial payment to them.

    You should really blame Medicare for requiring the medical clinic to charge you the full amount before remitting the rebate to you. It would be simpler for everyone if Medicare paid the medical clinic the rebate directly and they just charged you the gap fee.

    Also, card surcharges are designed to be irritating. They're a price signal endorsed by the RBA to encourage the use of the lowest cost payment methods. What I find personally irritating is when companies charge the same percentage fee, when in fact the cost to them is usually different for credit card transactions vs EFTPOS.

  • jatbinks on 26/09/2023 - 17:08
    +1

    I've been hopping gp clinics as they move to mixed billing. It's pretty crazy. I have changed 3 clinics in the last year as they won't do bulk billing anymore. Now I'm with the last option within 10km radius now. Won't be surprised if they end it as well.
    Would appreciate if the govt sold those ridiculous submarines they purchased from the US and funded the health system instead.

    • xdigger on 28/09/2023 - 19:15

      The loss of free universal healthcare in Australia is becoming a reality as we move towards the expensive American model of private healthcare and our military budget increases exponentially. Both LNP and ALP are responsible for the Americanization of Australia.

  • Kamsi on 26/09/2023 - 18:53
    +1

    I don't care about the CC surcharge but

    On top of the new gap fee they've introduced.

    The Gap fee is what I'm concern the most, just going in for a prescription will get charge a fee that is ridiculous imo.

  • UNO on 26/09/2023 - 19:21
    +1

    Were you advised before you received the service there would be a surcharge (and what the final price would be)?

    I'd rather the surcharge was built in.

    Given the govt. has not increased MBS item fees at an appropriate level over the last decade it's no wonder GPs need to find every cent they can.

    • ssfps on 26/09/2023 - 20:18
      -3

      GPs need to find every cent they can.

      Blah blah blah poor GPs poor top 5% earners how will they eat? It's just NOT FAIR to them, in their supply-controlled industry, that they got dwindling pay increases in the last decade like the rest of us! They should get HIGHER increases than us! What else was the point of restricting the intake of new doctors for otherwise?? Of course they should DOUBLE the amount they are receiving for a standard consult, from ~$40 to ~$80, obviously DOUBLING their fees at once is COMPLETELY NECESSARY AND ETHICAL.

      • Protractor on 26/09/2023 - 21:06

        Blah Blah blah blah, capitalism. Supply/demand. Because they can. Just like WFH demands.

      • UNO on 26/09/2023 - 21:12
        +1

        Don't worry, soon the consult fee will be more than doubled. Also, since when did the government MBS item fee for a GP visit double from $40 to $80? The GP fee charged takes into all costs and overheads of running the practice not just their wages.

        GPs have been subsidsing the government who have not increased the MBS fee in line with other costs (govt policy). The price to you might have doubled overnight, but the cost/ lost profit to GPs have been compounding for years. There is a huge shortage of GPs predicted in future years
        (https://www.ama.com.au/ama-rounds/25-november-2022/articles/…)… I wonder why?

        It's not just GPs who have high 'gap' payments. Look at any other doctor you want to. Do you want to see a cardiologist/ oncologist/ opthalmologist who is in the bottom 5% of earners? Often the gap to see one of those dr's is over $100. Or do you wait in the public system for over a year to see them?

        No matter how much money you have you can't buy health.

        TL:DR don't hate the player, hate the game.

        • ssfps on 27/09/2023 - 00:19
          -1

          tldr we only accept the top few applicants to study medicine, bell curves dictate future competency, we'll pretend we're importing more, you'll pay $45 out of pocket plus tip to get some results or a doctors note and you can all go and get farked

  • Cherry12 on 26/09/2023 - 21:59

    Do they charge surcharge on debit card as well?

  • aidenh37 on 26/09/2023 - 22:18
    +2

    No no no no and NO!

    Card surcharges should NOT be normal! Taking payment is a standard business expense, furthermore taking card is cheaper than taking and keeping track of cash (do GPs even take cash?). If I run a business, I do not expect my customers to have to pay for them to pay me - that should always be built into the product or service pricing!

    Mad how this has become accepted so quickly from every day merchants (of course, this has been going on far longer with taxis, airlines, utilities etc.).

    • ssfps on 27/09/2023 - 00:18
      +1

      Well said, this bullshit is a "new normal".

      What sort of idiot doesn't want to lick boots? It's normal to polish that boot with your tongue!

      • aidenh37 on 27/09/2023 - 00:37
        +2

        Worse still, if many businesses bothered to shop around, they'd find costs are only around 1.1% even for a low (?) volume cafe.

        1.1% of $1,000 = $11 per day, assuming $1k per day revenue.

        So only about $330 per month to have all payments depsited next day in most cases and tracked to Xero/MYOB. Maybe a bit more if you include POS software you were probably going to buy anyway to take cash - Square includes decent software but charges more overall (1.9% flat rate).

        Oh, that's right - if a Square merchant passes on that 1.9%, they're getting customers to pay for their POS/order management/rostering/inventory system too! Ugh

        Compare that to cash working hours (not even risk) - say, at best, 5 hours a week at minimum adult wage in a cafe setting, not including leave or other loading: $26.91 per hour * 5 hours = $134.55 at best per week * 52 / 12 = $583.05 per month. See? Putting illegal things like tax dodging and underpayment of wages aside, at best that's 5 hours of the owner's time lost per week, resulting $200 extra expenses in the form of valuable time. Cash only becomes worth it if you're making enough or ripping off workers or the country.

        Man, I get so angry over this.

    • valuer on 27/09/2023 - 11:32
      -1

      I think it may be part of the dumbed-down debit card generation. They were conned in to getting a lesser product so are easily leveraged to the next step, and have become so indoctrinated that they defend it.

      • aidenh37 on 27/09/2023 - 13:10

        Please don't call me and my generation dumb because we prefer to use debit cards and go cashless. It is easier and cheaper. My issue is with businesses passing on payment processing costs, something they do with card but not cash, most of the time. Heck, debit transactions don't have to be through Visa/MasterCard - eftpos is typically cheaper for businesses (but not the banks) and is basically a bank transfer. Beem also exists for QR code payments. Businesses can use these cheaper solutions today with little effort, but instead they just pass it all onto the customer depsite being such a tiny expense.

        • valuer on 27/09/2023 - 18:32
          -1

          Were your ears burning?

          You just wrote that it was cheaper while complaining about it being more expensive. I suppose the saying is - I rest my case.

          It's a scourge across the country - those extra charges. And they add up.

          • aidenh37 on 28/09/2023 - 22:35

            @valuer:

            I think it may be part of the dumbed-down debit card generation

            Is that not calling me and my generation dumb?

            It's not an 'extra' charge - card processing fees are less than processing cash, as I made clear above. We've not been conned, we've run the numbers.

            I rest my case as well.

            • valuer on 29/09/2023 - 04:42
              -1

              @aidenh37: It is an EXTRA charge . They ADD it to your bill. You pay it.

              And now you also don't appear to know the difference between a cost and a charge. It's getting worse.

              Your 'case' - is in tatters.

  • factor on 27/09/2023 - 00:02

    You aren't required to claim the Medicare surcharge — then the effective credit card fee will only be 1.5%. That should make you happier!

    • ssfps on 27/09/2023 - 23:55

      The Freudian slip undermines the smug response.

  • USER DC on 27/09/2023 - 02:04
    -3

    Ethical/ Unethical ??
    answer is clear

    but fact of matter is Doctors, and their practices are also hungry for making profits (not to mention the increased salary costs that practices need to pass onto patients ultimately).

    I personally dont need gp regularly mainly only need it when I want to claim, sickies from work. (and ofcourse now have to either pay gp or cannot earn sick pay, (so you loosing money either way generally). not to mention the time waiting's also at the gp's so high (you talk about unethical that needs to be unethical first making patients wait 30 mins past their appointment times like always)

    that too for sickies i only really go to 13 sick now, (I only got concern about getting prescription(s), and sick certificates only really)

    Worst comes out, would probably subscribe to that kinda online monthly subscription for these too.

  • tjswinno on 27/09/2023 - 06:46
    +1

    The cost to the surgery is $131.74. Medicare rebating you directly is a completely separate transaction, the doctor doesn't see that so they're charging the surcharge on what they get.

  • serpserpserp on 27/09/2023 - 07:25
    +2

    Buddy, if you purchase something online for a $100 and then get a $50 refund later, you won't be getting a refund on the surcharge. That is the cost of doing business.

    • johnfuller on 27/09/2023 - 11:46
      +1

      ozbargain logic is different lol

  • MrFrugalSpend on 27/09/2023 - 07:48

    Easy - don't pay GP on credit card.
    I use my credit card for almost EVERYTHING I buy… except medical because they can't refund the benefit to it, so the other card is coming out anyway

  • Bullion78 on 27/09/2023 - 09:15
    +1

    Cash, Cash, Cash. I'm just gonna keep saying it. You are locked into these shenanigans forever unless people start to push back and use Cash. You might find it inconvenient to begin with but i personally find it liberating and a big UP YOURS to the banks and government that are pushing this. Go and do an estimate of how much it is is costing you annually for cashless purchases, then consider that once Cash is gone, how much they might hike those surcharges in the future.

    • Protractor on 27/09/2023 - 09:32
      -1

      You're asking sheep to pick a fight?

  • gakko on 27/09/2023 - 09:44
    +2

    Business:
    -has a $100 consultation fee for you to pay.
    -receives a $2 fee for your credit card payment on it, and so charges you $2

    You:
    -receive $50 back from medicare

    Business can absorb the fee, subsidising your credit card use. Dunno why they would.
    Government can pay the fee, increasing your medicare rebate, but doctors would increase their consult fee a bit to absorb some of the rebate too.
    Or you can pay the fee. Or use some other payment method.

  • valuer on 27/09/2023 - 11:28
    +1

    Next time you go to the doctor - ask for a cashy.

    Of course if something goes wrong with you you won't be able to claim from the supplier which is - normal for a doctor anyway! :-)

  • wasabisauce on 27/09/2023 - 14:05
    +1

    OP - you paid $51 to see a doctor who spent 10 years to get to that position?
    And then $2 to cover the surcharges which gets passed onto them by the eftpos companies

    damn you're right that's outrageous.

  • Wally on 27/09/2023 - 14:10
    -1

    Go Ol' Skool .. Ask to pay by Cheque …

    only until the government soon takes that facility away

  • PerthMan96 on 27/09/2023 - 17:00

    Pretty pathetic considering if you have MECFS post viral there is nothing they can do

  • fleetfeather on 27/09/2023 - 19:39
    +1

    Medicare needs more funding, and there's never been more of an argument for that funding to come through net worth taxing (or super taxing) rather than income taxing

    It's the older generations who far-and-away draw upon our medical system the most. It should be them who are responsible for funding it adequately

  • wallaceff on 28/09/2023 - 06:07
    +3

    I think you are misunderstanding how the Medicare rebate works.

    You see a doctor. They charge you a fee. This is what you are paying to see the doctor. You pay the fee how you want. You pay any additional costs for how you pay the fee, as you would any other business.

    The Govt pays you (the patient) a rebate so that the cost of you seeking health care isn't so onnerous. This actually has nothing to do with the financial side of the GP practice (though for convenience, they do it all for you now anyway).

    I think your mistake is that you think you should only pay GP bill minus rebate and the clinic just gets the rest from the govt. This might be how it works practically, and for convenience it mostly is, but this is not the way Medicare was structured to begin with.

    Hope that clears things a little?

  • May4th on 28/09/2023 - 07:01

    Why is medical centre any different from any other business? Would you whinge about getting card surcharge at your local cafe? I mean I'm not happy paying any surcharges but it's the same with any business. The medicare rebate has nothing to do with it as it's YOUR rebate. the fee is whatever you were charged, it's no different than paying for a meal at a restaurant

  • peekabooo on 28/09/2023 - 07:35
    -1

    They've a monopoly on drugs and tests. Make the GPs optional and allow everyone something like 4-6 Medicare supported full blood test. 3 free imaging for each type. And prescription less drugs. Whoever wants to get high anyway is getting that from black market. Those who want to see GPs can go see them.

  • JediNite77 on 28/09/2023 - 08:08

    Does the charge only apply if paying by Credit ? If you select the option to pay by EFTPOS Savings on the machine, does it still pin g you ?

  • burningrage on 28/09/2023 - 08:47

    In principle, I oppose any form of Credit Card surcharging but even more so in the health and government (eg: Council/Vicroads/etc) context.

    Recent procedure I had was about $650 and they didn't pull their punch on the surcharge and got me at 1.5%.which is about near $10. Council rate of $2k at 1.5% will get you about $30. Neither of them would take cash and health expenses and government charges are already as high as it already is.

    It's inflationary, it is unnecessary because they already charged so high with so much buffer (like $630 for 30 minutes work - really?), and they have the convenience of not having to do cash handling as it is done by the banks and we're getting charged for it????

    • MessyG on 28/09/2023 - 15:36
      +1

      Hold up - that cost you're describing there does not all go to the doctor. This billing is used to pay for everything in the practice - from reception staff to building rent, equipment, etc. So a percentage goes to running the business, (usually 30-40% if its a specialist, more if it is a GP), the doctor pays high taxes because that billing comes in under their name (so 30%+) and their wage is what is left over.

      Not saying they don't earn a lot but it's not the millions people think it is, far from it. The owner of the medical practice on the other hand, is usually the one driving the Mercedes.

      • burningrage on 01/10/2023 - 22:07

        That's exactly the problem. The cost is already high to see a doctor AT THE MEDICAL PRACTICE.

        So I am not having a go at the doctor, I am having a go at the clinic. You would remember even back 5 years, businesses survived without surcharging.

        It's only the vibe these days because everybody does it and the people are already used to it so it's a nice little earner.

  • mavis30551 on 28/09/2023 - 12:52

    If you pay with a debit card do you still get the charge?

  • johnfuller on 28/09/2023 - 13:56
    +1

    how dare they turn a profit !

  • MessyG on 28/09/2023 - 15:38
    +1

    Doesn't the surcharge just cover the POS fees though?

    And why does everyone keep blaming individual practices for the gap when rebates haven't gone up anywhere near close to CPI but all the practice costs have? Do people prefer punching down on medics over the government now? Both Labor and Liberal hate healthcare, they see it as a cost and not an investment.

    All GPs are sole traders. They are essentially a private specialist - there is no public option available to anyone. Bulk billing was something they did because the rebates allowed them to do so and they didn't want to charge people - but then the rebates were frozen a decade ago and have barely risen since.

  • congo on 28/09/2023 - 16:52

    Pay cash or debit card. If they don't accept cash or debit card, then they should not charge for credit card surcharge because they haven't provided the other payments options.

  • ozmaxz on 28/09/2023 - 23:45

    everything price increases a lot since covid, but salaries don't. I am curious how does this happen? Why every business keep saying their cost is going high, I think labour cost is a large portion of the total cost, and if salaries for employee don't increase. why price increase significantly?

  • ymmf on 29/09/2023 - 07:48
    +2

    Funny how people don't stop going to coffee/restaurants because of the surcharge but when it comes to health they expect everything to be free. For those in NSW, this state has the shittest pay condition for public staff specialists in the country so be prepared for things to get worse.

  • Chmmr on 29/09/2023 - 10:58

    While this is OzBargain, made for consumers saving money, people need to see it from the other side. That $1.98 for you is less than a cup of coffee.

    They see 32 patients a day (https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guid…). My local GP has 8 doctors. That's 256 patients a day. Times that by 5 days = 1280

    1280 * 1.98 = 2534.4

    Do you want your local clinic to pay that much a week to the bank when it can be spread out by the end users who miss out on one coffee and are only going to see their GP once a month, if not less?

  • Amaris on 29/09/2023 - 13:48

    The surcharge should be what it costs them.

    The surcharge should be on the entire amount they charge your card for. Once there's a gap charge, the law says that the GP can't bill Medicare directly. They charge you the full amount. Most practices 'help' the patient by processing a refund to your card/ account. They can just as easily give you an invoice and ask you to get the rebate from Medicare yourself.

    Use cash. Most doctors don't charge a surcharge for an eftpos card either.

    You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word 'outrageous'.

  • valuer on 03/10/2023 - 08:36

    It's interesting that people pose that it costs less for a business to accept payments electronically than to handle cash, but are OK with a charge for a card-based payment yet expect the cash price to be as per the base charge.

    It seems that there should be a discount for paying by card!

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