Stove Installation - Who Pays?

TanyaDD on 27/07/2023 - 11:20
Last edited 27/07/2023 - 12:19

tl;dr - owner/RE agent said they would pay for stove unit and installation, but did not pay for installation. Property has now settled. Is the agency liable for paying for the installation?

This is possibly a unique situation. I have been renting for a few years and recently bought the property from the landlord. This was managed through a real estate agency the whole time. I am still living here - in VIC.
Prior to settlement, the gas stove stopped working, a plumber assessed it and deemed it needed replacement. The owner/agent at the time agreed to pay for delivery and installation of a replacement. There was no disagreement with that - the agency arranged for the delivery and installation. Faulty cooking appliances are considered "urgent repairs".
The parts were on backorder, meaning there was a delay. I was provided with updates from the stove retailer along the way.
Finally, the property settled, then the stove was delivered after settlement.
When it was delivered, the agency did not pay for installation. This is a separate fee on top of the parts/delivery. I only found this out on the day of delivery.
I contacted the agency informing them of the situation.
The agency booked in the installation for a future date (trades being busy). EDIT: the unit has not been installed yet. It's in the unopened box.
The agency has now doubled down and informed me the old owner is not paying for installation, because the property has settled.
The agency made the mistake of not invoicing/paying for the installation at the time, and are saying I have to pay for their mistake. They obviously did not admit to the mistake.

Consumer affairs told me they could not advise on a matter like this, and that I would have to seek legal advice.

It's the principle here. Do I have any claim to them paying for the installation now? Or just suck it up?
What sort of legal avenue is likely, if at all?
I'm thinking it may relate to a contract/written agreement that was not upheld.

Has anyone had any similar experience?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2023 - 11:24
    +7

    What is the installation cost?

    • Mythreesons on 28/07/2023 - 13:42
      +1

      I paid about $180 to get my new gas stove installed, it was replacing an existing gas stove so didn’t require rewiring or anything.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2023 - 13:50
        +6

        For that sum, I wouldn't waste energy on pursuing it further with the previous owner. Too many other battles that MUST be fought in life.

  • Seraphin7 on 27/07/2023 - 11:28
    +35

    Here's the realistic answer … just pay for installation and move on.

    By all means, put on a stink with the REA and see if you can get them to cough up, but in terms of what's "been agreed" it's either in your property sale contract (and you can enforce it) or it's not. I'm assuming it's the latter.

    There are all sorts of $#&%s out there that make all sorts of promises and then renege, but I reckon you'll need to write this one off.

  • bargaino on 27/07/2023 - 11:31
    +5

    Is it really worth the effort and stress for a couple of hundred dollars? Hopefully less. A very simple job since the pipe etc is already in place.
    Some naughty people might just get a local handyman if the trades are busy.

    Name, shame and move on.
    At least you got a brand new cooktop for cheap.

    • Mokr on 27/07/2023 - 12:01
      +2

      Couple hundred is like what one day of work.

      Like thrirty mins of email or phone calls for one day off. Seems like a good compromise.

      • bargaino on 27/07/2023 - 12:24
        +1

        Not sure I follow you. Cooktop swap is a 15 minute job if experienced. An hour if you have to read the instructions.

        New install is much more work, as you have to drill walls, run pipe, brazing, cut the benchtop, provide electricity, …

        • brad1-8tsi on 27/07/2023 - 21:45

          Depends if it fits in the hole.

          My gas cook top stopped working. I was given 2x working 2nd hand ones from a serviced apartment block renovation. They didn't fit the hole.
          Stainless steel benchtop so not a simple job to enlarge the opening.
          I used parts out of the unused units to get the old one working.

        • 2esc on 28/07/2023 - 13:14

          It may not take long to fit but travelling time has to be factored in.

        • luminousfox on 29/07/2023 - 09:17

          They're comparing it to their own wages being lost and not how long the tradie takes to do the task. As in , "if you'd go in to work for an entire day, why not put in 30 (or more) mins effort to (potentially) get back a days worth of lost wages".

          • bargaino on 29/07/2023 - 10:45

            @luminousfox: I see, thanks. Then they have it backwards. How often do people take time off work to be home for a tradie who does not even show up?
            Sometimes it is quicker and easier to just do it yourself, even without the financial consideration.
            An appliance swap is a very easy job, unless you are replacing the whole benchtop, or cutting stone/concrete.

  • montorola on 27/07/2023 - 11:32
    +2

    I reckon you should hassle the REA more before you admit defeat. Keep calling and emailing them everyday, hopefully they'll just settle the debt just to keep you quiet.

  • codyy on 27/07/2023 - 11:36
    +1

    Assume you've contacted the director of the agency and explained the situation? If not, that's usually a good step forward. Aside from that, bad reviews can always help ease the mind.
    Like others have said though, much less stressful just paying it and moving on, especially once the words 'legal advice' get mentioned.

  • jv on 27/07/2023 - 11:36
    +3

    Stove Installation - Who Pays?

    The person who wants it.

  • Dorge on 27/07/2023 - 11:37

    Was the stove listed on the pre-settlement inspection? Raised with your conveyancer?

    Even if it wasn't i'd raise the query with your conveyancer, as these issues are what you've paid them for.
    Having already settled I don't like your chances.

  • Ocker on 27/07/2023 - 11:38

    Did the REA put on paper the cost of the unit plus installation was for their account?
    If not, then reckon you are stuck with the cost of installation.
    Old saying, :if its not written, its not said"

  • jv on 27/07/2023 - 11:39
    -2

    that I would have to seek legal advice.

    What does you contract of sale say about it?

  • CodeXD on 27/07/2023 - 11:40

    The owner/agent at the time agreed to pay for delivery and installation of a replacement.

    If you have this in writing, then yes they will need to pay.

    • TanyaDD on 27/07/2023 - 12:01
      +1

      Yes, it is in writing that they agreed to paying for delivery and installation. How do I enforce this or claim the money back?

      The only option I'm aware of would be legally, which would cost more than the installation (just under $400).
      I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think I could press criminal charges.

      To the others asking, nothing was in the contract of sale because I already had written confirmation that the delivery and installation would be covered. It was originally scheduled to be installed prior to settlement, but then was delayed.

      • MS Paint on 27/07/2023 - 12:03

        Did the settlement of the contract of sale then void your rental agreement and subsequent oven installation?

        • TanyaDD on 27/07/2023 - 12:18

          I don't know about void the agreement, but it indemnifies the previous owner against any tenancy post settlement.

          • dasher86 on 27/07/2023 - 12:45
            +4

            @TanyaDD: Congratulations on your new home. Enjoy it and don't let this small thing tarnish your experience.
            unless it was in the COS you are now the owner.
            The owner agreed to pay the install. ergo..

            The other option is draft a letter of demand (google it if you have to), and see if the agency folds.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/07/2023 - 00:04
        +1

        I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think I could press criminal charges.

        Truer words have never been spoken

  • djsweet on 27/07/2023 - 12:06

    So the landlord/agent said they would pay, its in writing, and they have paid. Surely now the onus is on them to prove that you should pay. So just don't pay and they will have to chase you for the money. They will probably realise that if they need to take legal action for the money, the evidence is against them, and they will give up. I would think the reasonable course of action is to just ignore them.

    • TanyaDD on 27/07/2023 - 12:16

      I contacted the stove retailer/installer and they said the plumber won't do the job unless a payment is received beforehand.
      The booking was made to hold the time, but a payment was not processed.
      The agency has an "account" with the installer, but it's not a line of credit or payment account - it's just to track bookings and jobs.
      As of now, it has not been installed.

      • djsweet on 27/07/2023 - 12:43
        +3

        Well.. no way they're going to pay. At least they haven't done the job yet, so you can find your own installer if you think the price is too high. Possession is 9/10 of the law as they say. You got your stove, they saved on their installation fees. Probably best to just walk away at this point.

  • SBOB on 27/07/2023 - 12:22

    Unless you had it in your purchase contract of the house, once you purchased the property, you became the landlord… so… you could invoice yourself?

    If its not in the purchase contract, I don't see how you'd enforce a commitment made to a previous tenant (you) by a previous landlord, now that you're the current property owner. I'd assume that once the house sold and you no longer became a tenant for the agency, any agreements about the condition of the house became obsolete.

    • TanyaDD on 27/07/2023 - 12:26

      I realise this was a long shot, I thought I'd see if anyone had been in a similar situation.

      Note it's the agency's mistake, not the landlord's.

  • Baysew on 27/07/2023 - 12:25
    +1

    It will be probably cheaper to pay installation costs rather than legal fees.

  • leiiv on 27/07/2023 - 12:36

    Here's another perspective to see the problem from:
    Person A has been renting from C and promised a new stove top but he left before the new stove was installed.
    Person B bought the property from C after A left and settle without having the stove problem addressed.
    Can B demand C to fix the stove after the settlement?

    • MS Paint on 27/07/2023 - 13:43
      +2

      x=2a−b±√b²−4ac

      So I'd say no.
      ​

    • freefall101 on 27/07/2023 - 14:05
      +1

      I was in this situation 6 months ago (I was B), anything promised to the tenant is meaningless unless I called it out in the contract.

      C was a dick too, and lied endlessly because all that matters is what is in the contract. Going the legal route would cost a fortune too. Lesson learned by me.

  • KaTst3R on 27/07/2023 - 12:45
    +1

    If terms are not in the sale agreement, WYSIWYG

  • battler on 27/07/2023 - 13:33
    +3

    Pays a ~million then settles, then argues over a couple hundred.
    Move on. Shit happens.

  • Gdsamp on 27/07/2023 - 13:54
    +2

    Congratulations on the purchase. but a rather unfortunate situation. clearly they're unwilling to pay any more than they have, so makes more financial sense to cop the install fee and move on.
    At least you now get a rather cheap brand new stove - count your blessings that it broke when it did and not 3 months down the line where you'd be up for all the replacement costs. Go buy a lotto ticket.

  • JimmyF on 27/07/2023 - 14:35

    It's the principle here. Do I have any claim to them paying for the installation now? Or just suck it up?
    What sort of legal avenue is likely, if at all?

    On principle, yes the agent/old owner should pay as that was what was agreed.

    But honestly any 'legal' avenue will cost way more than the $200 to get a plumber out to install the stove for you.

    Be thankful you got a new stove out of it.

    • Protractor on 27/07/2023 - 15:07
      -1

      This is the world now. Ppl (loose term) refuse to honour a debt "cos they know the 'owee' can't or won't sue".
      What a lazy greedy entitled shitfest we have become.

      • JimmyF on 27/07/2023 - 18:36

        What a lazy greedy entitled shitfest we have become.

        I'm not saying not to follow up the agent to get the money back, but yeah that is the world we have become. It's also silly to keep fighting and waiting all while going without a stove for months on end as well. Just pay the install fee and keep fighting.

        Its also 'silly' to spend more than $200 in legal fees to get the $200 back. It'll be more like $1k to get $200 back.

        Stoves are piss easy to install, it'll basically be a plumber call out fee to swap it over.

  • JMosk on 27/07/2023 - 15:07

    From the sounds of it they aren't going to pay if they can avoid it.
    I'd leave an online review of the agent (as I understand it's their fault) and in the review give them the opportunity to rectify the issue.
    But be prepared to pay the installation yourself

    • JMosk on 27/07/2023 - 15:08

      And a reminder that you trust what an agent says at your own peril

  • netjock on 27/07/2023 - 17:01

    I appreciate you pain.

    Even if it is in writing you still need to get the money out of them. It is probably more time / money / effort than it is worthwhile.

    I hope you got a decent deal buying the property.

    Should have told your conveyancer to withhold settlement until a reasonable number can be arrived at and deducted from settlement funds. Even then everyone is pushy to close. I've had my own conveyancers not being helpful and tell you to go down the legal route.

  • elgrande on 27/07/2023 - 17:13

    Do you still pay rent to yourself?

  • Cheapskate Paul on 27/07/2023 - 19:58
    +2

    I hope you got your bond back!

  • iand on 27/07/2023 - 20:16
    +1

    I would probably pay for it but I would let the agent know that neither you nor anyone you know will use them to sell a property as they don't appear to be trust worthy

    I was a gardener and many years ago I did work for a real estate agency ended up arguing for over 6 months trying to get the last unpaid $125 paid in the end I gave up but I know for a fact that a few people who considered using them did not, so far it has cost them well over $80k in commission

  • donbot on 27/07/2023 - 20:24

    Alternative view - if you purchased the property from the landlord, odds are within your contract you've accepted condition of the property at the time you've entered contract - not at settlement as you are the one in possession/use of the property. That's how I understand a contract selling to a tenant would generally operate, as this limits the vendor/landlords exposure.

    Eg. Otherwise, you could bust up the stovetop between contract and settlement, claim it's broken and then the vendor would be up to replace it under landlord rules?

  • pndl on 27/07/2023 - 20:37

    The promise was made under the tenant/landlord relationship, usually if this is breached the recourse is to get a order to conduct the repair, however this is usually only if the relationship is continuing. If the tenant is no longer residing there then the recourse is to get a payment for your loss during the tenancy.

    When you enter the contract to buy the property, it is typically for the as-is condition at the time you sign the contract. So unless you had a special condition, then based on the fact that the stove was not fixed at the time of signing, there is no available claim here.

  • brad1-8tsi on 27/07/2023 - 21:47

    I had similar with a dishwasher at my place. They delivered it and left it in the middle of the kitchen. I installed it and moved on. No warranty either as I couldn't get any form of purchase receipt

  • Trance N Dance on 27/07/2023 - 22:10

    Either take it to small claims court or pay for the installation yourself and then take the REA/old landlord to the fair trading commission considering you have it in writing somewhere.

  • 82norm on 28/07/2023 - 07:53
    -1

    Criminal charges are sort. If found guilty 18 year head sentence, min. 15 non parole. Supermax too. Disgraceful.

  • Hirolol on 28/07/2023 - 08:59

    I just breezed past what you wrote and only read the first couple of comments so not sure if it’s been covered.

    If it’s not too expensive just pay it.
    Otherwise if it’s written in the contract/ you have written evidence and you have the time, take the real estate to your states CAT. In Vic it’s VCAT so what ever yours is.
    Most of the time you can just send them a letter of intent and they realise it’s not worth their time, and they will just pay it out.
    If they call your bluff, if you have the time take them to VCAT.

  • drewbytes on 28/07/2023 - 09:47
    +1

    FFS just pay the $400 and move on with life.

    • montorola on 28/07/2023 - 12:05

      Boss move - pay $400 and move on with REA's wife.

    • bargaino on 28/07/2023 - 13:59

      $400?! I hope they use lube.

  • ColtNoir on 28/07/2023 - 10:22

    What’s in the contract?

  • jasongi on 28/07/2023 - 10:29
    +1

    Usually the strategy for issues with the final condition being different to what was agreed to is to delay settlement until it is resolved, either by remediation or taking the cost out of the settlement amount - this is why you have a final inspection and this is your main leverage. If raised with you conveyancer they should have advised you of this.

    Practically though, delaying settlement would have meant you paid rent during that time, probably cancelling out any benefit. You also risk rates going up and your loan no longer being approved. So taking it out of the settlement amount would have been the way to go.

    Pursuing after settlement means legal costs, lawyers cos more than sparkies. Even self-representing is time consuming and has (minor) filing fees. The agents know this, and you’ll probably get ignored up until they see a letter from a magistrate to appear for mediation.

    I would just eat the cost and think about how much you saved not having to move. On the scale of things that go wrong when buying houses, this is very minor and if it’s the only cost you incur I’d be celebrating,

  • Mrgreenz on 29/07/2023 - 08:30
    +2

    Email RE with all your evidence in 1 concise email stating you will be installing with your own plumber if they do not get back to you.

    Call them later in day to as to see where theys tand on it.

    Leave truthfull reviews on all socials.

  • john_conner on 29/07/2023 - 11:55

    If it wasn’t completed at final inspection, then you should have had the $ taken out of the settlement amount.

    Ideally you would have discussed this with your conveyancer prior.

    Did you get a good price? If so let it go.

    If you want to extract revenge lodge a VCAT claim against them, it only costs a few bucks. Don’t let them get away with this!

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