Help with Tricky Neighbour Situation

ShazOz on 12/07/2023 - 15:08
Last edited 12/07/2023 - 15:32

I have a tricky situation so hoping people can suggest a solution to minimise the impact.

My one kid has ADHD and one is just 3.5 years old. When this kid with ADHD is upset, he tends to throw things and becomes out of control. This has resulted in various stuff flying over the fence. This includes the pebbles, plastic toys, hot wheels, plastic bat, basket ball and hand ball.

Poor neighbour has raised a complaint few times as there is risk of human injury, property damage and also harm to his pet.

I have explained the consequences to my kids but I think little one is too young to appreciate the situation. The other kid becomes agitated from time to time because of his medical condition.

We can't continue to allow them screen time for majority of the day as it's also not beneficial and they also need to play outdoor for their own benefit. Due to busy work schedule, we can't monitor them at all times as well. It takes just couple of seconds for stuff to cross the fence even if we are monitoring :(

Finally school holidays doesn't help either.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • dcep on 12/07/2023 - 15:16
    +128

    We can't continue to allow them screen time for majority of the day as it's also not beneficial and they also need to play outdoor for their own benefit. Due to busy work schedule, we can't monitor them at all times as well. It takes just couple of seconds for stuff to cross the fence :(

    Install netting above fence

    Monitor your own child during outdoor

    Keep them indoor if you can't keep them in check

    If you're your neighbor, would you tolerate your neighbor's kids throwing stuffs over fence whilst your kids were playing outside ?
    It's not beneficial for them to keep their kids indoor just because neighbor's kids throwing stuffs over fence and their kids need to play outdoor for their own benefit too. Not just caring your own benefit. Entitled much.
    And like you, they also can't monitor the fence for any stuffs flying over anytime trying to catch them to protect their kids in their own backyard.

    • ShazOz on 12/07/2023 - 15:25
      +34

      We take full responsibility and don't deny anything. Luckily the neigbhours don't have kids so this is good but they are old couple.

      I am looking for idea to minimise impact so thank you for suggesting netting.

      • Tech5 on 12/07/2023 - 16:49
        +14

        At 3 and a half years old, I doubt the kid has much of an arm, so install the netting at an angle into your yard. Achieves same effect without having it go so high or interfering with neighbours view/line of sight or w/e.

      • Kranbone on 13/07/2023 - 11:43
        +12

        Good on you for taking responsibility and accountability. Continue to engage, communicate and keep them on side, It's better to be harmonious.

        If netting is not an option, perhaps consider softer ball spots which are less likely to cause damage. Say, a tennis ball instead of a cricket ball. Avoid leaving bats/sticks around (not saying you do).

        • kiriakoz on 13/07/2023 - 16:29
          +24

          Isn't that a good way to test their hand eye co-ordination as they grow older? I regularly peg a cricket ball at my nan to keep her sharp in her old age.

        • RedDevil860 on 13/07/2023 - 21:19
          +13

          Mate he is acknowledging it and asking for help. Can't help then move on.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2023 - 17:50

          Which would be why he posted here for solutions, yeah?

      • juki on 13/07/2023 - 14:46
        -2

        when he is in this mood immobilise him until it ceases, ie calmly sit on him, hold his hand until he regains control, hold both hands and only let go once he shows sign of calming down. at 3.5 he might just be in some sort of development stage.

        putting a net is a solution for the neighbour but not so much for the kid himself

        • johnno07 on 13/07/2023 - 14:55

          when he is in this mood immobilise him until it ceases

          putting a net is a solution for the neighbour but not so much for the kid himself

          Sounds like it is a solution for the kid.

          • juki on 13/07/2023 - 19:42
            +1

            @johnno07: but he throws pebbles and crap, not sure the net cuts it. Throwing a net on the kid seems like it would just escalate the tension.

        • Name on 15/07/2023 - 01:19
          +3

          This doesn't work for some neurodiverse people. Depending on the condition, forcefully restraining them just escalates it.

          • juki on 15/07/2023 - 13:55

            @Name: i'm not familiar with the terminology "neurodiverse", but yeah by all means use judgement and common sense.

            OP mentions adhd and that worked well when i looked after my neighbours kids (who were further troubled by family issues),hence my suggestion.

            Depending on circumstances escalation isnt always a failure, I am (used to be) patient and tougher than a 3 yr old, sometimes its just the time for the penny to drop. People these days also want instant fixes and can be inconsistent in applying a solution. We are all different and i am sure there are parents who have a genuine challenge helping their kid make sense of the world, i dont mean to be disrespectful i'm just happy to chat.

    • azero on 12/07/2023 - 16:15
      +8

      We had a similar situation with a special needs teen, even threw an electric kettle over the fence :)

      But yes, a tall black (so it is mostly invisible) net along the fence is the solution.

    • Mozzmanau on 14/07/2023 - 20:22

      Keep them indoors? The kids like a caged animal. He needs to get out and release all his built up energy.

  • AustriaBargain on 12/07/2023 - 15:18
    +68

    Due to busy work schedule, we can't monitor them at all times as well

    You can't watch your own kids, you want to let them outside unsupervised, what kind of magic solution are you looking for here.

      • randomusername2017 on 12/07/2023 - 15:39
        +8

        installed to minimise the impact.

        lol..nice choice of words

      • Fredfloresjr on 12/07/2023 - 15:43
        +6

        airtasker that can block toys from flying over the fence

      • Odin on 13/07/2023 - 09:56
        +3

        A nanny?

      • argamond on 13/07/2023 - 19:04
        +3

        is there a reason why you need to give him hotwheels and plastic toys? Anything wrong with fluffy toys - or a big arse winnie the pooh that a 3.5 year old is unlikely to get over the fence.

        And does he only throw things over the fence - does not damage your windows? Maybe that is saying something

      • Rukiata on 14/07/2023 - 09:03

        hey i have an idea, go pay for a babysitter

      • ass3ts on 14/07/2023 - 19:29
        +1

        Not just minimise, eliminate the impact.

    • RiseAndRuin on 13/07/2023 - 11:50
      +7

      Not a lawyer, but I believe Op has a legal responsibility to supervise their kids. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when they get hurt or hurt each other.

      • Assburg on 13/07/2023 - 18:31
        -3

        Criminal liability doesn't extend to the parents.

        Children seldom can be shown to have committed civil offences, especially if there's a psychological disorder involved. Even if someone found a way to extend the liability, they wouldn't be able to make out the elements of any tort.

        Even for negligence, you can't establish a duty of care from one neighbour to another.

        Thus, there are no civil avenues the neighbours could pursue either. Even if a rock hit elderly neighbour in the head and hospitalised them.

        • argamond on 13/07/2023 - 19:10
          +5

          steady on, no one is talking about the child going to jail. But in civil law, a parent can be vicariously liable for the actions of their child.

          "In a common scenario, the minor child causes injury to another or property damage to another's property. Although the parent did not directly commit the act in question, vicarious liability will extend to the parent based on parental supervision of the child and the child's conduct.

          • Assburg on 13/07/2023 - 19:22

            @argamond: Yes but establishing the child has committed a tort is the first step…and children with psychiatric disorders are held to a very low standard.

        • nobro25 on 14/07/2023 - 18:41

          Damn.. so if they have some kind of syndrome, threw a rock over the fence and killed someone. There's no consequences and lack of manslaughter charge. That's one great get out of jail free card! Just blame it on the person with a syndrome.

        • psychojimmy on 15/07/2023 - 11:01

          This is wrong on so many levels. Don’t give advice on things you’re not qualified to.

          • Assburg on 15/07/2023 - 11:36

            @psychojimmy: Would you prefer me to re-submit my answers with authorities cited?

            If you're also a lawyer you'd be vaguely familiar with the case where on holiday in Victoria, some 12 year old kid threw a metal rod which, allegedly, deflected off a tree and took out a girls eye, permanently.

            Years later the girls family sued, but the judge ruled that because the boy didn't actually intend to apply force to the girl it couldn't be a battery, or was reckless to (noting a different standard of recklessness for children) and since there was no tort, there was no vicarious liability for the parents to worry about.

            This is still good law, a child wontonly throwing rocks over a fence is a step even further removed from tort than that case.

            @nobro while the standard of proof for criminal offences is higher and thus unlikely to be met when the civil case can't be made out. Where an accused is found not guilty by way of mental impairment, the supervision or detention orders placed on people with unsound minds/triggered by internal stimuli is usually far more onerous than a prison sentence.

            • futureminime on 15/07/2023 - 13:34
              +1

              @Assburg: Would actually be interested in some of the sources if you can find them. The difference from the case your referred to and to this one seems to be the timing (years later, hard to prove supervision), and prior knowledge of the risk.

              https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/commercial-law/national/to…

              Liability of parents for their children’s actions

              Vicarious liability is when one party is held liable for the actions of another. For example, an employer may be held to be vicariously liable for the tort of its employee. Parents are not vicariously liable for the torts of their children.

              However, if an injury arose due to inadequate supervision of a child, a parent could be held liable for this on the basis that they inadequately supervised the child. This liability is based on the principle that parents have a duty of care towards those likely to be affected by the acts of their children. If a parent is aware that their child tends to behave in a way that could be harmful to others, they must monitor their child’s behaviour more strictly and control them.

              I think this would be a very different case but would be good to be able to compare to an actual case, and not some advice from a legal website on the internet.

              • Assburg on 15/07/2023 - 13:53
                +1

                @futureminime: Honestly, I think this Armstrong legal stuff is rubbish, a good way to lure emotional, affected people in for some cash, and maybe even a good way to strongarm someone without their own legal advice.

                Do you have Lexus or westlaw? I can throw some pdfs from a database later on when I look this stuff up later on if you'd like

                • futureminime on 17/07/2023 - 14:43

                  @Assburg: Westlaw would be better for me. Quite an interesting topic where (ignoring the law), I think there are strong arguments for liability or lack there of from a moral and practical standpoint.

                  There also has been a focus on 'youth crime' in the news the last year, at least I've seen articles for NSW, QLD, NT and VIC. A bit of a step away but even with malicious acts (and ignoring the age vs criminality side) it will be interesting to read how the legal system views the civil side of this societal issue.

                  • Assburg on 17/07/2023 - 17:27
                    +1

                    @futureminime: Smith v Leurs [1945] HCA 27

                    Historic but still good law, negative treatment isn't relevant. Cited often. Have a look at keynote 1065-1068 Liability of parent or person in parental relationship (8).

                    I think there's an obscure case where some kids in juvenile detention escaped and stole/damaged a boat. The detention centre was liable for the damage but i think it was acknowledged that the centre had a duty to keep those children locked up, and but for that failure, the damage wouldn't have occurred.

            • psychojimmy on 15/07/2023 - 13:54

              @Assburg: A parent isn’t vicariously liable for the acts of a child, but it’s completely incorrect to suggest they can’t be liable for failing to properly supervise them.

              You can’t quote a single case and say that exculpates them of any liability or suggest that the neighbour has no avenues against another neighbour. That’s patently wrong.

              • Assburg on 15/07/2023 - 16:25

                @psychojimmy: And surely, you can't quote a single case where the parents of a child who hasn't committed a tort have been found to be liable for any act or omission.

                Outlandish situations where perhaps the parents encourage an act, sure, but consider the extreme:

                An epileptic child who needs significant amount of care but, isn't getting it at a moment in time, has a fit in public and ends up hitting another person in the course of it.

                Good luck suing for that.

    • Assburg on 13/07/2023 - 18:25
      +8

      Unsupervised play outside has been a part of human development for all of recordedn history. Get over yourself.

      • Protractor on 14/07/2023 - 15:00
        +1

        Unsupervised play Fit for purpose parenting outside has been a part of human development for all of recorded history

        • Assburg on 14/07/2023 - 16:29

          Fit for purpose parenting is a good term to sidestep the issue that different cultures have different ideas of this.

          For most of even recorded history, mental disabilities had not been recognised and children born with physical disabilities were often left to die - not sure if that comes under your definition of fit for purpose parenting but if it does some rocks over the fence shouldn't be an issue.

          • Protractor on 14/07/2023 - 17:40

            @Assburg: I'm not side or back stepping.
            Fit for purpose means exactly what it means in this situation.
            Work-life balance does not mean divvying up, it means PRIORITISING. As many here have said, if the OP can't do the parenting properly, use child care, seek qualified or family help, or better still be a parent first. All of which are FFP parenting.

      • Franc-T on 15/07/2023 - 04:32

        Yes, but when you got a kid doing this, you just cant. This is from someone with an Autistic brother who did the same thing.

  • randomusername2017 on 12/07/2023 - 15:21
    +11

    make peace with the neighbour

    Fix the underlying problem….

  • djevoultion on 12/07/2023 - 15:21
    +64

    LOL this isn't a tricky situation OP. Either install netting above your fence, discipline your kids properly or only let them play outdoors supervised. It's not rocket science.

      • AustriaBargain on 12/07/2023 - 15:50
        +33

        You’ve tried nuffin’ and you’re all outta ideas.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOTyUfOHgas

      • sraymond on 13/07/2023 - 05:38
        +15

        First job is to get rid of the pebbles. Replace with wood chips.

        • donman92 on 13/07/2023 - 11:16
          -4

          Never resort to smacking or any corporal punishment on your children. It's a short term solution and has been proven to be ineffective in the long run.
          Endless list of reasons why we need to advance from that primitive method: https://raisingchildren.net.au/toddlers/behaviour/discipline… https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/the-debate-is-over-scie…

          • Captain Musty on 13/07/2023 - 11:51
            +8

            @donman92: Never resort to smacking or any corporal punishment on your children. It's a short term solution and has been proven to be ineffective in the long run…

            Rubbish! An 'appropriate' smack will teach them there are boundaries to their behaviour. Try it, it works!

            • robbyjones on 13/07/2023 - 20:42
              +5

              @Captain Musty: OP's child has ADHD, you are wrong, corporal punishment most definitely won't work.

          • iCandy on 13/07/2023 - 15:38
            -1

            @donman92: Recently had 2 unrelated people tell me my husband and I did such a great job raising our 2 boys (currently 36 and 39 years old). Both boys have also assured me smacking didn’t harm them at all. I’ll go with my techniques thanks.

            • AustriaBargain on 13/07/2023 - 18:29
              +1

              @iCandy: But if you lose your temper while doing it can’t it quickly turn into a criminal assault?

              • Assburg on 13/07/2023 - 18:38

                @AustriaBargain: No, there's a common law exception for child discipline.

                • donman92 on 13/07/2023 - 18:51
                  +1

                  @Assburg: Keen to see the child lodge a police report. I don't recall doing that when my parents beat me with a thick belt.

            • [Deactivated] on 13/07/2023 - 20:50
              -1

              @iCandy:

              Both boys have also assured me smacking didn’t harm them at all.

              Well, there is the will business. Lets hear what they say about your 'smacking' after you shuffle off this mortal coil

              • iCandy on 14/07/2023 - 07:39
                -3

                @[Deactivated]: Nah we are a very close family and love each other very much. Both boys are very successful in their careers and partnerships. I’m incredibly proud of the men they have become and so, it appears, are others. My sons are much more wealthy than I am. Good parenting is the key.

                • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2023 - 10:17
                  +2

                  @iCandy:

                  Good parenting is the key.

                  Effective parenting doesn't involve physical punishment

          • jsheroes on 14/07/2023 - 08:03
            +3

            @donman92: Poster prevents scientific evidence that smacking is bad. Gets mega-negged and receives responses of 'nah I don't reckon'. The cultural zeitgeist in a nutshell.

        • sakurashu on 13/07/2023 - 19:54
          +4

          "Are you working from home? If so, kids should be in childcare. You can’t work and look after kids at the same time."

          This is one of the most important takeaways here - many workplaces require you to not have someone in your care while at work as well

        • ChatCPT on 15/07/2023 - 14:45

          exactly - there are kids you dont hit and there are kids you should hit
          then again there are parents you punch in the face multiple times!

      • capslock janitor on 13/07/2023 - 18:10
        +1

        get rid of the poebbles

  • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2023 - 15:22
    +7

    Suggest a parenting course/program to teach you how to properly care for your own kids

    • ShazOz on 12/07/2023 - 15:30
      +2

      It's easily said than done when you have a kid with medical condition…

      • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2023 - 15:39
        +46

        No, you need to step up. Access external resources to assist you so that you know how to provide the level of appropriate care your children need under the given circumstances.

        • morse on 12/07/2023 - 18:20
          +12

          Yup - sounds like OP is prioritising work over the kids. It’s understandable, but not a great path.

          • Kangal on 14/07/2023 - 12:15
            +1

            @morse: Exactly.
            Netting is a bad solution, because it will enforce that the more he misbehaves, the more the parents will try to mitigate it. Around 4 years old, he is coming to form his own thoughts and feelings. Finding professional help is the only way to go. It can teach them that there are limits and consequences to his actions, and potentially correct his pathway and medical symptoms.

        • ChatCPT on 15/07/2023 - 14:47
          +2

          Pathetic OP taking fake ownership

          Asks for help. Doesn't like the fact he has more work to do. Complains about life being busy and blames it on kids medical condition

          Again. Pathetic!
          Please don't make any more kids

          • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2023 - 15:22
            +6

            @ChatCPT: It's sad that OP thinks that this is a 'Tricky Neighbour Situation'

            • ChatCPT on 15/07/2023 - 16:17
              +3

              @[Deactivated]: exactly. this is a 'Pathetic Parent Situation'
              Hes lucky the neighbour is so forgiving. I would give this a**hole something serious to worry about

              • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2023 - 17:38

                @ChatCPT: Hopefully, OP gets the help she needs for her family.

      • Protractor on 12/07/2023 - 19:21
        +4

        Your kids come first. End of.
        And parents don't have the luxury of outsourcing to Ozbargain, for free advice /guidance about ,discipline and quality time.
        You need to step up and if it's too much reach out to the people who can help PROPERLY.
        A child that age "over-craving" attention doesn't know or care where the line is between their time with you and you with your work.

        "Too busy" doesn't cut the mustard at the pub, in society or when welfare come a knocking/

        • Assburg on 13/07/2023 - 18:40
          +1

          It takes a village to raise a child.

          People have every right to consult others for advice, even in public forums.

          • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 18:49
            +3

            @Assburg: And there's the cause for all these issues, right there.
            Outsourcing responsibility. The web is not a village. It's a circus.
            Always an excuse. Go online, find one, claim it

      • Bob Svargis on 13/07/2023 - 09:33
        +8

        It's not easy but part of therapy with kids who have ADHD and/or ASD is teaching them how to behave in a neurotypical society.

        Spoken as the parent of 1 X ASD/ADD and 1 X ADHD

        My point is, it's hard, but you should be asking your therapist to teach the kids about acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Too many therapists take the easy approach (trust me, I've spent thousands of dollars over the years on sh1t therapists)

        Oh, and install a net.

      • Roe Jogan on 14/07/2023 - 11:17
        +3

        ADHD? lol excuses for everything, discipline your kids or only let them play inside, it isn't rocket science.. and stop coming up with first world problem excuses. you think kids in africa got ADHD problems too? nah they are too busy fetching water from the well 3 hours from the hut

  • ihbh on 12/07/2023 - 15:25
    +11

    Fence off the thrower in a circle in the middle of the yard. Not sure how big your yard is or how strong he is, but you be the judge.

  • Sal in SA on 12/07/2023 - 15:31
    +10

    Yep, Ozbargin would be my choice for parenting advice as well…

    • Protractor on 12/07/2023 - 18:43
      +1

      Yes. Buy the kids a bigger TV.
      Maybe buy the neighbour one, as well.

    • Rukiata on 14/07/2023 - 09:06
      +1

      seems like ozbargin has more brains then op lol

  • Mokr on 12/07/2023 - 15:32
    +1

    You need to create a throwing game so they don't throw it over the fence but at an object.

  • onetwothreefour on 12/07/2023 - 15:33
    +11

    Hey OP, some pretty harsh responses so far but basically those are your only options:

    1. Stop your kid from throwing stuff over the fence
    2. Increase fence height
    3. Keep your kid indoors

    Option 1 will be the best long term option for all.

    Good luck.

    • poboy on 12/07/2023 - 16:31

      The other option is to provide another form of frustration outlet. Easier said than done, I know.

    • Protractor on 12/07/2023 - 18:29
      +1
      1. Move to the country (wide open space with no neighbours)

      (All based on if this is an official diagnosis.)
      This case can't be in WA. The recently retired premier used to say parents gotta parent

    • nobro25 on 14/07/2023 - 18:47

      Tie a stress ball on a tether and have a punching bag. Have a bat tied to a tether so they can wack the bag but can't throw the bat anywhere.

  • ChickenTalon on 12/07/2023 - 15:35
    +28

    Really difficult situation to manage.

    Firstly, get help, if your child has an ADHD diagnosis then they got it from a qualified child psychologist. They should be your first point of call as dealing with undesirable ADHD behaviour is different to regular child behaviour. ADHD also comes in different flavours (primary: low attention or hyperactivity etc), the psychologist should be able to give you tailored strategies to their type of ADHD and their age.

    Until you can see them (usually many months on a waiting list), this is what I'd recommend..

    • Get some books on how to raise kids with ADHD. Lots of things can be managed using strategies and different ways of doing things, find stuff that works.

    • You mention screen time, should be close to zero most days (unless it's homework that must be done on an iPad etc).

    • ADHD kids generally need to be active and mentally stimulated. School holidays will need them loaded up with physically active and engaging activities. If that's too much work for you on school holidays, then you need to use a school holiday program.

    • diet is another thing, like with all kids, try and keep sugar intake close to zero as it makes the behaviour harder to manage. No fruit juice / lollies

    Good luck

    • Protractor on 12/07/2023 - 19:47
      +3

      Come on!
      If this parent has received a proper official medical diagnosis, they would already know and have all of this in place.
      Frankly the question should have been about how to stop objects flying over a fence. Randoms asking randoms(on Ozb) about parenting is beyond ridiculous.

      • ssfps on 13/07/2023 - 03:41
        +2

        If this parent has received a proper official medical diagnosis, they would already know and have all of this in place.

        Maybe wherever you come from, but not here on Earth.

        • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 10:01
          +1

          If someone diagnosed (qualified person-not parent) this kid, all that support stuff is advised upfront.
          Parenting is hard. Not an excuse

          • ChickenTalon on 13/07/2023 - 14:35
            +7

            @Protractor: Yes. Parenting is hard.

            But you’re living in a fantasy land if you think an ADHD diagnosis equals lots of support and heaps of time with a paediatric psychiatrist (with year long waiting lists).

            You can be very much on your own

            • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 14:42

              @ChickenTalon: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/14027610/redir

              I can only assume than that the OP has PMd you a copy of this formal diagnosis paperwork.
              My fantasy land involves magic like parental responsibility, engaging professionals when needed, and prioritising your own kids welfare over everything else. None of that exists in any tangible level in this story. Is your advice as offered not public not freely available? Don't the 'diagnosers' mention anything about that during the consultation?.

              Or is it …..ADHD ….NEXT patient….. ADHD… NEXT patient…. etc.

              • yoquierotaco on 13/07/2023 - 20:17
                +2

                @Protractor: mate, chill out. No one knows the exact situation the OP is in. The OP asked for some advice, maybe not the best forum for it, but no need to be so negative. You're all over this topic like you have some kind of vendetta.

                • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 20:30

                  @yoquierotaco: "No-one knows the exact situation." ??
                  " Due to busy work schedule, we can't monitor them at all times"

                  Yet to see any proof the entire situation is not based on self diagnosis.
                  This is one occasion where 'won't somebody think of the children' is front & centre.
                  I blame the lizards

  • Sammy2000 on 12/07/2023 - 15:37
    +11

    Would be difficult being that neighbour when a random rock hits you in the head while you are trying to enjoy the outdoors.

    • ssfps on 13/07/2023 - 03:42
      +3

      Those 3-year old biceps are devastating.

    • Bren20 on 13/07/2023 - 09:33
      -2

      The actual risk of being hit by something is crazy small, even for small back yards. the chances of the neighbour being outside at the same time is low (higher for a pet), and even if you are outside the odd's of something hitting you is small, assuming you're not being targetted.

      Having said that, the perceived risk is quite high and I sympathise with the neighbour if they don't feel safe. Netting should help, but talk to the neighbour before putting it up as they might hate it on the fenceline.

      I don't understand the comments that suggest the child should be supervised when outside - give the parents a break!

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