What Could Be Using up Electricity in My House While Idle?

furythree on 08/06/2023 - 01:55
Last edited 09/06/2023 - 03:13
  • Update: Reading the comments below. Firstly thanks everyone for being so helpful, ive learned 2 important things:
    a) my understanding of solar was wrong, the rate is hourly not daily. So in fact a 5-6kw system would cover the usage around the clock, except maybe the idle baseline power at night. in that case i dont have to get an expensive 10+kw setup and the payoff is exponential within 2-3 years! ill splurge on one less expensive gadget and that will cover the costs nicely

b) it seems i have understimated idle power usage for fridge freezer and other devices. which once again when calculated over 24hrs does creep close to 7-9kw.

thanks again everyone for sharing knowledge. Im so glad i asked this question. Hopefully this helps someone else out too *

My fixed rate electricity plan expires tomorrow and like a few people below, my rates are going to be up 50-60%

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/143aayx/well_he…

Surprised this isnt being discussed much yet. Anyhow im trying to crack down on my energy usage and discovered a problem with idle power usage

AGL who im currently with,shows me historical usage on a daily basis. I have looked back 3 years and have noticed that days when i am overseas or simply not at home, i am using 9.5kwh/day of power even with nobody using appliances. i have a digital meter so it should give accurate daily usage, and its corroborrated with historical averages ive calculated too

Inspecting my house, i noted down 24/7 on or idle devices:
i have a small deep freezer, fridge, TV, 4 IP cameras that run on 10w, NAS and internet on 24/7.
My hot water is one of those small "instant" hot water systems, i dont actually know how they work. But theres def no tank boiling water

i cannot figure out how the hell i am using over 9kwh a day while not being home and its driving me mad. is that freezer and fridge enough to draw up to 9kw a day??

Anyone got ideas of obvious things i may have missed?

Until i figure this out i feel like any savings i try to get from discounts or solar is kinda pointless. a 10-15kw solar system will basically take 5-10years to payback and all it will do is offset the baseline min 9kw power usage, wont even scratch the additional 15kw actual usage in my 5person household

$600-$900 a quarter in electricity bills is going to sting long term

Speaking of bills, i used the government comparison site for the first time. it reccomended me Globird and simply energy. Anyone have experiences with simply? its $2000 a year cheaper than globird ($4560 vs $6170) and it only gave me 2 options…

for some reason, the individual rates are cheaper than bundled plans by about 10%. is that normal?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Mxx on 08/06/2023 - 02:11

    One side by side fridge & small freezer here and we use 12-15kwh a day (3 people, inc. lights, 2x electric blankets on for 8+ hours/day, air fryer, air con and a desktop on 24/7 etc.). I would imagine the instant hot water system uses quite a bit of electricity, but that shouldn't be the cause of the problem if you're still using 9.5 kwh when away.

    Dryers and dishwashers use a significant amount.

    Are your lightbulbs energy efficient? If you have a lot of lights it could add up too.

    • furythree on 08/06/2023 - 04:08

      yeah i changed everything to LED/philips downlights that are 1/3 of the old bulbs in usage
      i wear extra jumpers instead of using aircon :D
      avoid aircon when i can etc as you said. The hot water does use electricity but take very quick showers.

      pretty much done the best i can with regards to daily usage

      i just cant work out what the heck is using that 9kw passively

      theres no way an old water heater would use anything close to 9kw if it werent disconnected properly right?

      time to disconnect literally everything except the fridge and take a short holiday to see whats still using power lol

      • Naigrabzo on 08/06/2023 - 11:03

        Damn man, Hats off to you because I take my hats and jumper off and increase the heating instead.

      • Mxx on 08/06/2023 - 16:25

        I imagine the fridge & freezer uses 2-4kwh idle, so 9.5 is a bit high if you’re overseas (away 24/7) but if you’re home sounds about fair.

        Have you tried installing an electricity monitor? Then you could try turning on different appliances & see how much electricity they’re using.

        We mainly use 6W LED lightbulbs FYI. 11W for bathrooms and 11-14W for bedrooms (which are rarely on).

        • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 02:43

          i will have to try that

          ill also try disabling sections of the house from the mains switch while im away, except for the fridge and see if that isolates the house as well

          but good to know that the fridge and freezer is still 2-4kwh idle. i was underestimating it a bit then

          if i find out other passive stuff i have around that could start to add up

          Regarding lighting, i had a check and looks like it is 7w - specifically: Philips Master LED MR16 7W

  • AustriaBargain on 08/06/2023 - 02:33

    The chest freezer probably isn't the problem, they are very efficient especially if it is full because the cold air never spills out when you open it and the bottom and sides are sealed and insulated.

    • furythree on 08/06/2023 - 04:09

      its what i suspected as well. i did a bit of research and worked out it wasnt that expensive to run. i save so much money with the bulk items i store in there too so it pays for itself

  • geekcohen on 08/06/2023 - 05:55
    +2

    You need a PowerPal so you can view LIVE data by switching stuff on + off to see the draw.

    I have one and it's great, helps with the Solar too to know when I am buying power or not.

    My 6.6kwh solar system has paid for itself in 2 years based on what I have saved buying power (less credits which is bugger all now anyway).

    As for the provider, Simply Energy is who I would go with out of the two. I am currently with Energy Australia as they are the best value for me.

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 08/06/2023 - 08:51
      +1

      Free in Victoria, not anywhere else in Australia. :(

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 02:48

      thanks for the reccomendation, ill see if AGL can match simply energy, but will fall back to them if they cant

      That powerpal is interesting. are there cheaper alternatives? its annoying to me how limiting the new digital meters are. almost intentionally designed to be limiting on information

      • geekcohen on 09/06/2023 - 05:45

        That powerpal is interesting. are there cheaper alternatives?

        Probably is, but in terms of value and a good happy with a nice UI, probably not. $129 shipped is pretty good value, it would pay for itself over time with potential savings you identify.

  • Nugs on 08/06/2023 - 06:46
    +2

    TLDR 9kWh per day sounds reasonable.
    It's 6am and everyone else is asleep, the only items I have on that wouldn't be overnight is an LCD TV and a 40W led batten light. The third party app for our Tesla battery is showing an idle of 0.4kW which extrapolated over 24 hours is 9.6kWh. Given the fridge and freezer will ramp up occasionally, we'd have an even higher 24 hour consumption
    .

  • Jugganautx on 08/06/2023 - 06:54

    when i first bought my house and lived by myself the least i ever used a day was 6-6.5kw and i had a fulltime job and didnt use ac or anything.

    even with a 6.6kw solar system now im still using 6.5kw a day in winter. 9 is pretty good.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 02:49

      yes but my 9 is when im not even at home

      when im actually using power its…25kwh :(

  • lgacb08 on 08/06/2023 - 07:24

    Mate, you're too far oblivious to the factual data. No way a 4 system camera can use that little the baseline of those surveillance devices and network probably chew easily 120w or nearly 3kwh daily already. Does it have a dedicated nvr, how many hdd in the nas? A freezer, is that chest type or stand up? That can be either 0.3kwh or 1kwh per day. A fridge can easily 2kwh and every other little things add up too. Doesn't take long to get there.
    And to get factual, you don't need 10kw system to make a savings out of it, a 6.6kw easily saves enough to make a difference, just don't expect credit from it. Remember the out of pocket expenses is all that matters. It won't take long before the grid operators starting to charge you for exporting too much back into the grid so be very careful of what you wish for.

    • eug on 08/06/2023 - 11:33

      No way a 4 system camera can use that little the baseline of those surveillance devices and network probably chew easily 120w or nearly 3kwh daily already.

      What sort of 4-camera camera system do you use that chews 120W of power?

      • lgacb08 on 08/06/2023 - 19:24

        What sort of recording device do you use for it?

        • eug on 08/06/2023 - 21:49

          Nothing particularly interesting; what's interesting is your 120 watt 4 camera system. What is it?

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 02:50

      im starting to realise im under estimating the freezer and fridge. its a double fridge and a chest freezer

      but the cameras are just Wyze cameras that run off a powerbank

      could you elaborate on the 6kw solar logic. are you saying that because im almost guaranteed to use more than 6kwh a day anyway, then its almost always at 100% utilisation

      ~~so the payback is 6kwh/day x 365 x whatever the cost of that is in actual supply avoided from the retailer?

      so a bit of napkin math its over 2k in energy a year at these current exhorbant utility rates. the offset cost excluding daily charge is just under $1k a year in savings.

      but doesnt a 6kw setup cost like $5-7k? so isnt the payoff still like 5years? im sure ive got a variable wrong here, so keen to learn~~

      ignore the last bit. reading the comments below it seems ive misunderstood solar

      the kw generated is per hour not per day

      so even a 4-6kw system will cover me 24.7 which is what i think you were trying to say

      holy crap this changes everything

      im so glad i posted this thread

  • saltypete on 08/06/2023 - 07:55
    +1

    Base load at my place is .2 kW which heads to 5kW/d. We have a lot of vampire load from TVs, game consoles, chargers etc.
    Assuming your HWS is instantaneous gas it wouldn’t be a big idle draw. I’d be looking at the fridge and freezer.
    Well worth getting on top of this. Be interested to know your outcome.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 02:59
      +1

      i didnt consider base load, that will help me calculate this properly and narrow it down.

      happy to report back when i do
      cheers

  • 7ekn00 on 08/06/2023 - 07:57

    There are cheap (~$15) power point devices from Kmart, BigW, etc that will monitor each power point in your house, good for helping!

    Having gone through this a while ago, there is a heap of devices that draw a heap of power in "standby" - the big ones I found were airconditioners (drawing up to 200W a piece in "off" mode waiting for a remote to "power-on"), Washing Machines (up too 120W "idle"), Dryers (up to 100W "idle"), Ovens (up to 100W "idle") , TVs (up to 50W each "standby"), Old PC monitors (some were up to 25W "standby"), etc

    • lgacb08 on 08/06/2023 - 09:02

      Sounds more like you're having faulty old appliances to begin with, aircon, washer, dryer tv should never be at that number in idling mode, averaging out they should consume around 4w constantly at most.

      • 7ekn00 on 08/06/2023 - 09:19

        Some were old, but the aircon guy said it's normal for some brands ;)

        • ESEMCE on 08/06/2023 - 09:22
          +1

          Anything using that sort of power would be warm-hot to the touch.
          Be careful when using a cheap power meter as they will not calculate Power Factor and therefore give a laughably high reading.

  • jjjaar on 08/06/2023 - 07:59
    +2

    In addition to getting a Powerpal, many council libraries offer energy efficiency kits for you to borrow. One item in these kits is an energy monitor which measures the energy consumption of your appliances to let you see see which ones use more power, and where standby power is being drawn (i.e., which devices you should switch off at the wall when not in use).

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:00

      is that in NSW too? do the kits include powerpals?

      • jjjaar on 09/06/2023 - 08:27

        The kits should be available from some councils, have a look at nearby ones to see what they offer. Try words like “energy efficiency kit” or “home environment kit”. Websites aren’t often the best, so I’d call up councils sustainability departments or libraries.

        It wouldn’t include the Powerpal because that device is specific to one address/user.

  • ESEMCE on 08/06/2023 - 09:08
    +1

    My house uses 6 kWh/day idle with 2x smallish fridge, 1x small chest freezer, plus modem and standby devices if I power everything (at least those devices that have accessible switches) off except the Fridge/Freezers.

    In "normal" living at home mode, the 6 hours from midnight to 6am (before anyone woke), we consumed just over 2kWh, so on track for 8kWh/day idle with all the usual household stuff plugged in and on standby.
    (our Hot Water is Gas)

    Also you misunderstand solar.
    A 10kW system will generate 10kW every hour in full sun at optimal angle, so across an entire sunny day probably 30kWh+ in the depths of Winter and 60kWh+ at the height of Summer. (dependent on panel orientation, shading, location in Aus etc etc)

    Note that Single phase systems are typically max 5kW (you need 3 phase power to grid connect larger systems)

    My 5kW system generated 12kWh of power yesterday (on a fairly clear Adelaide day) as we approach the shortest day of the year in 2 weeks time. Through Summer I generate 40ish kWh per day. My panels have shading issues which reduce generation output, certainly not the most optimal setup.

    • Naigrabzo on 08/06/2023 - 11:04

      You are correct about the 10kw solar system. Nice explanation.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:02
      +1

      Also you misunderstand solar.
      A 10kW system will generate 10kW every hour in full sun at optimal angle, so across an entire sunny day probably 30kWh+ in the depths of Winter and 60kWh+ at the height of Summer. (dependent on panel orientation, shading, location in Aus etc etc)

      ok holy crap that is completely different to my understanding and makes a huge difference! here i was stressing over affording a 15-20kw system when it sounds like a 6kw system will be fine

      godamn getting onto this asap

  • Sinnerator on 08/06/2023 - 09:11

    any suspicious cables running from your house to your neighbours?

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:03

      i didnt want to say this out loud since the neighbours were close mates with the previous owners lol

      but jokes aside no of course :D

  • ESEMCE on 08/06/2023 - 09:21

    10W cameras x4 = 40W x24h = 960Wh/day (essentially 1kWh/day)
    NAS probably pulling another 40W x24h= 960Wh/day (essentially 1kWh/day)

    Fridge for a family of 5 is likely to be large so allow 3kWh/day
    Freezer easily 1kWh/day
    (Check the fridge and freezer seals, if they're leaking then power consumption will increase.)

    Vampire power from standby electronics, your TV etc, possibly 1kWh/day.
    So we're up to ~7kWh

    I'm guessing the balance is your hot water, header tank in the roofspace perhaps? 2kWh probably means that re-heats for an hour/day, feels about right, but I've never had electric hot water.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:04
      +1

      appreciate this

      i had a feeling my calculation was off. i am glad there isnt a ghost siphoning power into my neighbours house while im away lol

  • mskeggs on 08/06/2023 - 09:36

    Just on the solar, rule of thumb is you will get 4kWh per kW of panels each day, less in winter, more in summer.
    So a 2kW system would cover almost all your idle consumption, and likely 4 or 5kW would cover all your daylight usage when you are home.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:04
      +1

      reading all the comments it seems i have a completely incorrect understanding of solar

      this actually makes a huge difference!

  • bargaino on 08/06/2023 - 09:49

    OP is using 400W idle. That's wasteful.
    Do you have a monster fridge?

    Unplug the things you know about for a couple of hours and see how much energy is used.

    People are quoting some terrible numbers for security cameras. Mine use about 1W each by day, more when the IR LEDs are on. 20w for the whole system, including 2.5" HDD.

  • Seraphin7 on 08/06/2023 - 10:26

    Obviously 9kWh indicates a background power draw of 375W. Without going through all the calculations here, that sounds about right. I've never attempted to do all the calculations, but I know the background draw at my place is ~500W so you're usage certainly doesn't seem excessive.

  • pharkurnell on 08/06/2023 - 10:37

    I was told by a mate that he had a 'master switch' installed that turned everything in the house off except the fridge/freezer.

    Is this actually a doable thing?

    • ESEMCE on 08/06/2023 - 11:30

      Maybe at a shack or really old house with very basic circuit setup.

      But any modern house will have multiple circuits.
      1 or more to cover Lights, at least 1 for Kitchen, and at least another to cover Bedrooms and Lounge.
      You could do it at your switchboard, just flip all the circuit breakers except the one the fridge is on. Even easier, "test" you RCDs which probably cover multiple breakers.

      • pharkurnell on 08/06/2023 - 11:49

        Yea it sounded a bit too good to be true to be honest… if it was simple people would be flocking to get it done.

        as you said you could do all the circuits one by one, but who could be bothered. :)

        • eug on 08/06/2023 - 11:58
          +1

          Technically it would be really easy to do that in a new build. You'd have a main switchboard and two distribution boards - one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the house. You can then turn off the power to the house with one switch while still providing power to the kitchen.

          It can also be retrofitted if your house already has a dedicated kitchen circuit, but it'll cost a bit!

        • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:07

          im going to try anyway, my switch is carefully labelled. so i can just unplug everything except the fridge in that section of the house and do some testing

      • Euphemistic on 08/06/2023 - 12:13

        In some installs the fridge circuit is separate and often not connected to the RCD. Simple test, trip the RCD and see if the fridge light stays on.

  • Euphemistic on 08/06/2023 - 12:11

    a 10-15kw solar system will basically take 5-10years to payback and all it will do is offset the baseline min 9kw power usage

    Your daily base usage is 9kWh. An10kW system at its peak could generate 10kW if it does that for an hour, you’ve got more than your daily base usage plus it’ll be generating for much more than 1hr

    My 4kW system makes in excess of 20kWh on a good day.

    • furythree on 09/06/2023 - 03:06

      yeah reading the comments ive completely misunderstood solar as daily generation instead of hrly lol

      this is a huge difference. sounds like a 5-6kw system would be more than enough

      i feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders cause the payoff would be 3-4 years only i think?

      • mskeggs on 09/06/2023 - 07:19

        3 or 4 years payback pretty easy to achieve with the rising costs.

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