Ozbargains favourite coffee machine
TGG have finally sorted out their stock allocation (was unobtainable yesterday)
Update 1: Confirmed out of stock in NSW
Update 2: Website shows no stock everywhere for C&C or delivery
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New stock of this machine they improved the design getting rid of the O-ring's which caused leaks
I thought the Bambino plus was better, it heats up the steam faster plus its got a temperature sensor so it can auto foam, the only thing you are getting is timing control?
I also have the bambino plus and v happy with it. hasn't missed a beat. the only issue I have is the small drip tray (leaks, overfills). Instant heatup is great, and steams milk well! I'll wait until it dies until I get a dual boiler.
Not at all
no point
I absolutely love my Bambino Plus. I "downgraded" from an older Sunbeam Dual boiler that sounded like a tractor.
The Bambino Plus makes great (at home) coffee. The auto foam feature is also excellent. If it ever broke it would likely buy another one rather than move back to a dual boiler.
My bambino plus rattles my cups almost half the width of the drip tray sometimes….. I think my pump is a bit noisy haha
Haha, yeah, I can relate to that.
I own the Dual Boiler and have had mine for 4 years now but I regularly use my mate's Bambino Plus when I visit his place and there's no need to upgrade unless you're making more than 4-5 coffees at the same time. Being able to steam while pulling shots at the same time means you can make multiple coffee's faster so that everyone gets a hot drink but if you're only making 1 or 2 cups for yourself and a partner/guest then the Bambino Plus is just as capable.
Thanks for the feedback. I didn’t see all your replies until now but thanks for saving me $900! I’m very happy with the Bambino Plus, so I’ll stick with it. I did get it (and the SGP) for a good price at the time compared to what they are now so best to hold onto it as long as I can. Cheers!
The bits he's missing are to do with the finer details of getting a shot pulled. The brew temperature, group head heater, the ability to control your preinfusion and the wider 58mm basket all make small differences which will improve the flavour.
It took me forever to dial in my bambino plus and it varies still quite a bit with the same workflow, a workmate who got the BES920 seems to be pulling fairly good shots almost immediately. I think it's just forgiving
10% cashback from ShopBack?
I didn’t see any ad for 10% either
That's TopCashBack haiyaaaa
But good rate!
Can't be obtained on any postcode
Looks like it's stuffed again…
Worked at my local when I posted the deal but now everywhere zero stock again
Not sure what's going on, maybe have to call them
I just called them. No stock in NSW
Which postcode?
Just checked every mayor postcode. 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 and nothing
Yeah, won't show as in stock anywhere. Wondering if anyone else will price match?
Yea true… It's a good deal…
Does anywhere else have stock?
Been very happy with this machine since moving from a Sunbeam Café Series 6 months ago. Two coffees per day since, and not a hiccup.
My sunbeam just stop working this morning, this is the second sunbeam we had, the first got replaced just before warranty expired so neadless to say, both machines have not even lasted 12months.
Looking at the Brevilles.
Have had this machine for a while. Any tips on how to get the perfect extraction? I feel like mine is a bit watery, I notice in coffee shops their pulls look more rich. Using Aldi beans
How old are the beans, what grinder are you using, how much is being extracted, etc
Beans are around 2-3 weeks old, Sunbeam Smart Grinder Pro, not sure how much is being extracted - never weighed or measured it. Mostly just eyeball
Is that from the roast date? Can be found next to the best before date. Probably want somewhere between (18-22g) of coffee and want 2-2.5x grammes out. Have no idea how good that grinder.
never weighed or measured it. Mostly just eyeball
thats your problem. get scales and dial it in.
@cyrax83: I bought a cheap one off ebay or aliexpress. Its been flawless.
They're actually called digital coffee scales! They generally measure differences of 0.1gram and include a timer.
It looks almost exactly like this without the branding https://www.catch.com.au/product/coffee-scale-10397458/?offe…
I think I paid around $30 but this was over 5 years ago.
@cyrax83: I got some SearchPean Tiny scales off Aliexpress for $46 the other week and they seem to work well for the price (compared to the outrageous Acaia prices anyway).
@cyrax83: I use Kmart digital scales. I have a Breville Barista touch, coffee at 19grams and out around 60grams which is 32seconds. I vary between Aldi Dark Roast 2-3 weeks old and MyCuppa Espresso $35 a bag which is 2-7 days from roast. Bang for buck Aldi is great. I use these scales with Eneloop AAA I sourced from OzB deal. https://www.kmart.com.au/product/heavy-duty-digital-kitchen-…
Also for correction it's a Breville Smart Grinder Pro
I had really hard time with Breville Smart Grinder Pro to get grind fine enough to get proper extraction.
Tried inner adjustment, everything - the water was still going to fast (underextraction).
Got Eureka grinder - this one doesn't have any problem to grind fine enough to chock the machine even with Aldi beans.
Update: saw your later message saying you don't have this issue.
@cyrax83: I bought this one from Amazon. I have the means of checking calibrations at work and I was very surprised how accurate they are.
https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B01HCKQG7G/ref=ppx_yo_d…
Don't use Aldi beans. Try and source some freshly roasted beans and give it a go. Also if you're finding it too watery you need to slow down the extraction. Not sure what grinder you're using but tighten the grind and increase the dosage to make up for the smaller grind.
Ok thanks. Is there some tools I should be using for measurement to dial it in better?
I've got some micro scales, in particular Rhino coffee gear scales, they work well. You can then weigh out your shot and then weigh it once it's extracted. That will let you know if you're on the right track or not. Generally I try to operate on a 2:1 basis, being if you had 18g of coffee you'd want the extraction to weigh 36g
@cyrax83: I've been using this one for 6 months or so. Cheap, repeatable results and enough resolution to dial in coffee.
https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B01HCKQG7G/ref=ppx_yo_d…
With a different cheap scale I had before it would change by a tenth of a gram every time I bumped the coffee container.
I wouldn't bother with an enthusiast coffee scale unless you want extra features like a built in timer. Definitely useful but it's a big step up that I'd save until you're more into the espresso process.
@Subada: Thanks, that looks good.
We usually pull a shot with the double basket into 2 cups. Can't work out how to weigh them asv they both wouldn't fit on a small scale. Don't really want to extract into one cup and then try to put half into the other. What do people do in this situation?
@kiitos: you don't need to weigh output every time you extract, once you get the right setting for a bean bag, just do it by time eg 30sec extraction.
The other option is to program your machine to stop extracting by volume rather than by time.
@cyrax83: 1g kitchen scales are fine, you dont need to go below that (ie dont need fractions of grams)
Aldi beans can be fine, just check the roast date - but consider if 'watery' just means a light tasting bean, perhaps you prefer dark roasts - I certainly like the strong bitter dark roast, so a different bean/roast level might be what you are after
If its watery its most likely either grind or overextraction.
Grind - as said make the grind finer. There is no rule, just make it finer until it is less watery (but too fine and it 'overextracts' and is bitter or burnt tasting). Some people use time for extraction as a measure eg 22 seconds and if it takes less time then make it finer; but the best option is to measure the weight, try different grinds using that same amount, then use the grind that tastes the best to you (regardless of extraction time)
Extraction - as wce says, do not make too much. 2:1 ratio is a good amount to extract, but its not very much (36g of water is about 2.5 tablespoons) and it can take a bit of mental rejigging to convince yourself that its the right amount of extraction. But what you want is a nice solid espresso, and then you can add hot water and/or milk as suits you. But, again, not too much - standard cafe cups are only about 200ml so that means you are adding to your shot perhaps 150ml which is just over half a measuring cup (125ml). So, again, a lot less than you might expect. If you are extracting a full mugs worth of coffee, it will be super watery; if you add a mugs worth of hot water it will be watery. Extract at 2:1 and add around 5X that volume maximum (or a bit more if you add milk, I guess - I dont drink milk)
(as an aside, you can use your scales to measure how much water is extracted (slide the scales under the cup on the machine) and how much you add)
Finally, I found that some machines produce quite different results depending on how much you fill the basket eg almost to the top vs a few mm from the top. So that is (unfortunately!) another variable - 18g might be the right dose or it could be 20g or 22g.
so
- consider the bean (in particular freshness but also roast level)
- change the grind to finer
- do not over extract in volume and do not add too much extra water
- if that doesnt help, change the dose (might be less or might be more)
- experiment with the variables but measure; once you find the combination that works, use that
oh, different beans will require a change to these variables. Different humidity might require a change, older beans might require a change…anything that can vary might change the shot. Sometimes it will be great, sometimes not as great. But you can, at least, be more than 'good'
@dtc: At 1 gram resolution you could be at 18.4 grams or 17.6 grams which at least for me makes a big difference to the shot. I think you'd want tenths of a gram minimum as resolution for espresso. Given you can get 0.01 gram resolution from scales that cost <$20 it's well worth the frustration saved.
@dtc: 1g scales will work, but half a gram each way is a non-trivial amount - 0.1g coffee scales are cheap enough (and tend to me nice and compact) that they're worth shelling out for imo.
1g kitchen scales are fine, you dont need to go below that
Why would you buy 1g kitchen scales when 0.1g are available, cheap, and can make a big difference to extraction consistency? Strange.
Aldi isn't great but its isn't terrible.
Up to around 3 weeks old, i aim for 17.5 to 18 grams of coffee ground for 32 grams espresso over 25-28 seconds. I think its the best i can do with my sunbeam burr grinder. Heaps of 'how to dial in espresso' vid on youtube. I found them helpful.
Looks like your set up is alright.
Aldi beans are alright.
You don't need to weight your beans at your level, just play around with time and grind level.
Just grind a bit finer until you reach the right consistency. You'll have to discard a couple of coffees, part of setting up.
Also look at WDT that will make a lot of difference especially grinding finer.
WDT is a nice to have, not a necessity. People have been making perfectly fine coffee without WDT and it's certainly not what's causing issues with OP's coffee coming out watery.
Never said WDT would fix coffee been watery.
Actually if the coffee is watery then WDT won't make any difference. But when they start grinding finer, especially with their grinding machine which is good but not great, then it will.
Don't weight bean but do WDT???
Without consistent dosing how would OP get to the right consistency to begin with?
2 parameters on their grinding machine - time and grind level
WDT will prevent machine clogging or creating channels when they start grinding finer.
Just fill the bucket with beans and pour coffees playing with the 2 parameters until reach right consistency.
Then if you want to be a perfectionist, sure weight your beans
@ShouldIBuyIt: ^ Please don't listen to this OP.
Weighing should be your first step. Time of grind is next to meaningless especially if trying new beans. If you're weighing your dose you're taking out so much of the guesswork.
Buy 0.1g scales.
@Jebus: Let's agree to disagree. OP is clearly a newbie (no disrespect) and they're pouring Aldi beans - weighting to the 0.1g won't make such a difference.
Barista course don't weight the beans. Time*grind size is the fastest method. Then add WDT. Then weight the result for consistency if you like.
@ShouldIBuyIt: As a newbie weighing your grind is even more important because you're keeping at least one thing consistent while experimenting with other variables. Changing the grind size will change how much is ground as well, so you want to make sure that if you go finer, you're not putting less in the portafilter, otherwise it's a minefield of experimentation.
I'd love to know which barista course doesn't cover grind weight. A friend did a course recently where they went into detail about weight for specific size filters.
@Jebus: Exactly. There are so many variables when making an espresso and I don't know why you wouldn't want to eliminate as many as possible especially when it can be done cheaply and easily.
@Jebus: You've got 2 options, weight or time. Which will vary depending on the beans, the size of the filter and the grind size. Just saying time is the fastest when adjusting with other parameters as it's built-in their grinder.
2 options - I'm saying it's fine if they want to just use time instead of weighting beans.
Never seen a barista in a coffee shop weighting the beans - and personally don't have time for that - I'd assume OP would be similar since they've been putting up with watery coffee for a while…
@ShouldIBuyIt: Sorry ShouldIBuyIt, you're wrong on this one mate.
You don't need to weigh your beans every single time, of course baristas don't do that. Do you know why? Because they weigh it in the morning and adjust the grind time to suit the beans for that day. You don't need to weigh every single time you make a coffee, but you do need to weigh every time you adjust grind or change beans.
As an example, I ever so slightly changed my grind size this afternoon and didn't touch the timer. I went from 18g to 16.5g with just the slightest change. If a newbie did that they'd still get a runny extraction, and think to themselves "Oh I must need to go even finer".
See what we're saying? Eliminate the most obvious variable. The time setting on your grinder is only a convenience thing, it should not ideally be relied upon to set up your extractions.
you do need to weigh every time you adjust grind or change beans.
Won't argue with that. My grinder is set up and using always same beans.
The time setting on your grinder is only a convenience thing
That's exactly my point, never said not to weight. I may even weight next time I change beans or set up ;-)
You can't. I've never seen anyone who says using a scale in espresso making is an option only if you want to be a perfectionist.
@keejoonc: Lol guys you're overthinking it.
OP is currently having watery Aldi coffee for a while. Don't think their aim is perfection. Just improving to a decent shot
@ShouldIBuyIt: Or you don't have a clue what you are talking about?
Using a scale and weighing your input and output is espresso making 101. It's nothing to do with perfection. It's a requirement.
You oddly keep mentioning WDT, which I would class as a technique a perfectionist would use. How unusual.
I agree with your other responses. Best advice I had was to treat the extraction like any recipe. Take care on the measurements and process. Use a scale as suggested.
I sometimes need to change my grind setting depending on the beans I'm using.
Best not to buy beans in bulk. Buy smaller bags to guarantee their freshness.
Also, better to only fill the grinder with the amount of beans you need per day, as even though the grinder may have a sealed lid, there is a small amount of air that gets in through the burs. Or at least discard a couple of seconds worth of grind each day.
Experiment and you'll nail it!
How fine are you grinding? With a setup like this you need to be going as fine as you can until the machine stalls out (Or just the finest setting on your grinder if the machine can still pump through OK. Is it a pressurised portafilter (Single hole in the bottom) or a normal one (Many holes)?
Normal filter. There's many levels left to grind further. I found though when I took it up a level or two, the machine would choke up. I think I just need to experiment with slightly finer grind and perhaps more beans. I think a scale will help
You need WDT and less beans, then shouldn't issue with machine choking
I use the same beans and commonly last a few weeks. Certainly moving from the Breville grinder to another Ozb favourite the Eureka mignon has made a huge diff, no issues hitting 9bar (sometimes 10) every extraction.
Oh and with regards to above comments I had the old Breville grinder as fine as it would be. The dual boiler can't deal with the Eureka at that level though so just gotta dial it in to where it needs to be.
There's a few things that need to be considered. There are always outliers but I've found the following to be a decent guide:
Roast (Lighter / Darker) - What roast you choose can affect the extraction. Lighter roasts tend to be less soluble than darker roasts so require higher extractions. Lighter roasts tend to have more fruitier notes and darker roasts tend to have more caramel/chocolate notes.
Dose (Amount of coffee) - For most it's usually recommended between 18-22g for a single espresso. This is also usually dictated by your espresso machine and how large the portafilter is.
Brew time (Time it takes for a shot to be pulled) - Between 25-40 seconds would be a loose approximation, I'd personally aim for around 30 seconds but again it'll vary depending on beans/roast/grind size/etc.
Yield (Amount of espresso) - It's usually recommended to have a 1:2 ratio of coffee grinds to espresso (e.g. 20g of grinds and a 40g shot of espresso). There are circumstances where you can change this but 1:2 is a good starting guideline.
Grind size (Fine / Coarse) - For an espresso shot you are normally looking to the finer side of things but not so fine that when you tamp and compact the grounds and water tries to pass through it that the water causes channelling as this can lead to bitterness, dryness and an over-extracted shot. On the flip side, too large a grind can make it too easy for the water to pass through meaning you end up with a more watery, sour and under-extracted shot. Grind size is the thing I find I need to change most when trying out a new coffee for the first time, the other variables I tend to keep the same.
Heat also plays a part but since you're using an espresso machine, it should handle that. You can change this yourself as well but the original setting should be fine for most people for most situations.
TLDR:
Choose a roast to your taste.
Weigh out the amount of coffee beans your portafilter can take.
Grind the beans at one of the finer settings.
Brew for around 30 seconds.
If yield isn't 1:2 of the amount of beans you ground then you will need to change grind setting appropriately (i.e. If you get too much espresso, grind finer, if you get too little, grind coarser).
This way the only variable is the grind size which should make dialling in a shot easier. As you come to understand your palate a little more you can change the other stuff and play around.
To work on your process, you need to measure what is going on to work out what to adjust: you already have a temperature gauge, pressure gauge and shot timer in the dual boiler. If you add a set of scales you will have all you need to get started.
The searchpean scales mentioned here are great value for money, they are rechargeable and perfectly sized to sit under a cup while extracting with the dual boiler.
Grind. Use pressure gauge to help dial in the grind.
Grind consistency should be like a fine sand, pick a number between 18 and 20, e.g. 19g and grind at what feels like fine sand, tamped into the large portafilter it should leave enough space so that the shower screen does not compress it when you engage the portafilter.
Tare the scale, start the extraction with the manual button.
Watch the gauge while you are extracting: if you see pressure initially good then dropping off to e.g. 7-8 bar while extracting, this can indicate channeling (this is where water makes a path around the coffee grinds - you may want to WDT and firmer tamping to address this).
While extracting, watch the pressure gauge, the shot timer, and the scale weight together.
Press the manual button again to stop when you see the scale hit 37g (initially aim for extracting 2x the coffee weight, another 1-2g will end up in the cup after you stop the shot).
Note down the shot time, you are aiming to get this to 30s.
If the shot time was below 25s, adjust the grinder finer.
If the shot time was above 35s adjust the grinder courser
I try and extract espresso around 8.75-9 bar, and you want it to remain stable after it ramps up.
Temperature - you want the extraction to be made at a stable temperature. The dual boiler has a great design for this, including a separate heater for the group (you may want to wait until the portafilter has fully warmed up, or run an empty shot through it to preheat it before your first shot).
You can adjust the brew temperature up/down a few degrees to see how it changes the brew flavour.
It is best to first dial in the grind as a starting point, but higher temperature can sometimes remedy (unintended) sourness, lower temperatures can sometimes address bitterness.
Thats some great tips thanks i'll follow this process!
Grind finer.
Also, as others have said: weigh your beans, weigh your output in the cup, and get a better grinder. Aim for 20g in, 40-50g out, in 30 seconds of extraction time (I go with 30s from the first drop to hit the cup, not 30s on the shot clock). Adjust the grind size until you hit that mark. With the smart grinder pro, don't keep beans in the hopper, and make sure you get rid of the stale grounds still in the grinder before you grind your dose.
I don't know what Aldi beans are like, but I doubt they're particularly great; you could almost certainly do better.
Worth shelling out more for an Oracle when it's heavily discounted?
The Oracle is more automatic than the dual boiler. I quite like the dual boiler for that reason that I can tweak settings and get my coffee exactly how I want it
TGG's have been showing this as in stock for awhile now but it's only available in a few stores nationwide.
Would like to point out this is for the BES920, not the BEP920. It is only for the Dual Boiler and not for the Dual Boiler and Smart Grinder Pro
NO STOCK for SA
Stock yesterday and stock tomorrow but never any stock today
Yeah no idea what's going on, my local definitely have them but website says no
No stock for WA metro
Why is this OzBargain favourite? Wife just told me our old machine is nearly dead so I’m interested
generally considered the best value espresso machine on the market - produces similar results to Italian machines worth thousands. the most common issue is probably the large footprint due to its size and requiring a separate grinder (which is a positive in terms of longevity and versatility), but if you have the space and can stretch your budget to this it's basically a no-brainer.
Best compromise price/quality.
Dual boiler so you can pour a coffee and froth your milk.
Stay away from all in one like oracle, if the build in grinder fail then you can throw out the whole thing.
The grinder can be repaired. And after owning the Oracle for 8 years, the grinder is not the weak point.
Way around then, the pump fail and you can throw out the grinder too :-D
Also can't sell/ upgrade the grinder
Have a look at what they sell for overseas and the good reviews they get. The pricing here is crazy good for what you get.
We've had ours for about 6 years with ~9,730 shots on the counter, hasn't missed a beat.
saying no stock at all for VIC, is it really out of stock or is the website not working properly?
just rang up my local store, according to the store person they are now only selling the dual boiler with the grinder. looks like stock wont be returning for the machine itself unless something changes, bit of a shame but that's what I got for you all
They did the same thing for a period last year, only stocked the Dynamic Duo. Ended up bringing the Dual Boiler by itself back onto the market
yeah seems weird to only sell it in the bundle, hopefully will comeback as its own item sooner rather than later
Do you know how long it took them to bring it back as solo?
They say this many many many times, then when they have stock of BES920 they just pretend they never said it.
It has happened at least a dozen times over the last 2 years
no stock QLD
All gone? Nothing in VIC?
Finally got my scale. From what i read the BDB single basket is 10g and the double basket is 18g.
For a single espresso, should i be using the double basket with 18g and aiming for 36g of extraction (1:2) over 30 seconds? Is the 30s meant to include the 7s of preinfusion?
What's the purpose of the single basket?
Hmm, trying to justify whether my 18 month old Bambino Plus is due for retirement and an upgrade already.