Would You Buy a Car That Presents Frequent Errors?

Mintee on 30/04/2023 - 18:34
Last edited 30/04/2023 - 21:33 by 1 other user

Hi,

I'm currently having some issues with my new car; its just on 6 months old and just hit 5000kms; and I've not had a trouble free month/week of with the vehicle.

One of the criteria according to the ACCC when defining a major problem is that: If, as a reasonable consumer who was fully aware of the nature and extent of the failure, you would not have bought the car

So some of the errors that appear on my vehicle I've had with my vehicle include (some have occurred multiple times)

Error 'Group 1':
- Front Assist unavailable. Sensor Impaired.

Error 'Group 2'
- Error: drive system. Please visit Workshop
- Travel Assist is currently unavailable (also comes on its own)
- Error: Start/Stop
(this error comes with engine misfires, and a reduction of engine power for your trip), Once you restart your car it works like normal.

Error 'Group 3'
- Manoeuvre Braking Unavailable

Error 'Group 4
- Emergency Assist is current Unavailable
- Error: Electronic parking Brake. Stop Vehicle safely! Workshop
- Error: Hill Start Assist
- Travel Assist is current unavailable
- Rear Traffic Alert is currently unavailable

The question I'm asking is, as a reasonable consumer, if you know your car would present you with the above errors on a fortnightly basis (sometimes you'll get none for a month, then some 3 days in a row) would you have proceeded with the purchase?

Some definitions from the owners manual relating to the above:

Emergency brake assistance system (Front Assist) - The objective of the system is to prevent head-on collisions against objects that may be in the vehicle’s path or minimise the consequences of such impacts. The function is designed to avoid collisions against:
* Parked vehicles.
* Vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists that are travelling in the same lane and direction.
* Pedestrians and cyclists who transversely cross the vehicle path.
The Front Assist records the mentioned objects by means of a camera on the top of the windscreen and a radar sensor on the front of the vehicle ››› page 233 .

Depending on several factors and how critical the situation is, the system operates in a staggered manner. First informing the driver, and if there is no or insufficient reaction, then activating an autonomous emergency braking or an evasive manoeuvre as indicated by the conditions that will be discussed in the following points. The system can be cancelled if the accelerator pedal is pressed or the steering wheel is turned firmly. Depending on the equipment and the country, the Front Assist also includes the following functions:
* Pedestrian protection ››› page 240
* Cyclist protection ››› page 240
* Dodge assist ››› page 241
* Turn assist ››› page 241

Emergency Assist - Emergency Assist can detect whether there is inactivity by the driver and can automatically keep the car within the lane and stop it altogether if necessary. This way the system can actively help avoid an accident or reduce its consequences

Manoeuvre braking Manoeuvre braking function The emergency braking function is used to minimise damage in the event of a collision. Depending on the equipment, if the Parking Aid is active, the braking while manoeuvring function activates emergency braking when it detects an obstacle in the vehicle’s path that could cause a collision, driving forwards or in reverse

Travel Assist - The driving assist (Travel Assist) combines adaptive cruise control (ACC) and adaptive lane guidance. Within the limitations of the system, the vehicle can maintain a distance from the vehicle in front that is preselected by the driver and remain in the preferred position within the lane. Travel Assist uses the same sensors as Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Lane Assist Therefore, carefully read the information about the ACC ››› page 243 and the Lane Assist ››› page 251 and take into account the limitations of the systems and the indications given in the information

Poll Options

  • 8
    Yes - I would still have purchased the car
  • 240
    No - I would not proceed with the purchase
Automotive

Comments

  • holdenmg on 30/04/2023 - 18:42
    +26

    VW. lol

    • modsec802 on 01/05/2023 - 09:04
      +2

      Could be Skoda but same thing

  • Bafranz on 30/04/2023 - 18:42
    +13

    Obligatory make & model?

    • HeWhoKnows on 01/05/2023 - 08:18
      +1

      What is the point of this excercise?
      Is Op going to present the poll to the dealer and demand a refund…

      I dont think so.

      OP has not even mentioned if they have taken the car back to the dealer or if so how many times.
      That is the first course of action!

      Hence logically nobody can vote on this without knowing this information.

      • doctordv8 on 01/05/2023 - 11:55
        +1

        Hang on maaaaate. Common Sense (or CDF as we said in the Military) was outlawed years ago!

      • brendanm on 01/05/2023 - 19:24

        Op has stated that they took it back to the dealer, multiple times, if you care to read.

        • HeWhoKnows on 06/05/2023 - 19:50

          I read carefully the headline post and no mention of this. yes, I read it 3 times

      • SpicyStew on 01/05/2023 - 21:23
        -2

        Yet OP bothers to mention manual page number references I found quite odd. SMH.

  • Ugly on 30/04/2023 - 18:45
    +4

    You don’t mention what brand your car is, but I had something like this a couple of years ago in a Kia, and they completely replaced the whole windscreen-mounted camera unit under warranty.
    No argument, they just did it.

    • HeWhoKnows on 01/05/2023 - 08:20
      +5

      No mention that OP has even attempted to have the problem rectified by the dealer…right?

      Just out to have a whinge

      • Euphemistic on 01/05/2023 - 12:25
        +1

        There is a post further down where OP says they’ve taken it back multiple times. It’s been downvoted a lot, so you’ll need to go searching for it.

        • HeWhoKnows on 06/05/2023 - 19:47

          Strange OP did not mention this important fact in the headline post.
          I looked further down and OP says the dealer could replicate the problem.
          Maybe OPs car doesnt like the way its being driven by OP???

  • PVA on 30/04/2023 - 18:47
    +7

    Make sure you contact the dealer every single time something happens so you have a log.
    Doesn’t matter if it’s something in the morning and again happens in the afternoon.

  • Worf on 30/04/2023 - 18:47
    +1

    Nope, I wouldn’t proceed if known in advance. But impossible to know until you have it. Once purchased, I imagine it would be hard to get a refund; however, it would be a warranty issue and the manufacturer/dealer would be liable for repairs. Being so new, it would be reasonable to expect a courtesy car whilst waiting for repairs.

    Out of curiosity, what make and model?

    • Shoocat on 30/04/2023 - 18:50
      +3

      Every time this happens, pull over and then record a video or photos. This should at least give you evidence it is occurring.

      • Mintee on 30/04/2023 - 18:50
        +1

        Yep; have been, its hard when some of them pop up for <20 seconds though, Dont want to be mucking around on my phone whilst driving either

    • brendanm on 30/04/2023 - 19:09

      Vw have great error logging, they won't have to replicate the error to be able to trace the fault.

    • Protractor on 30/04/2023 - 20:01
      +2

      Ford Territory? AWD or RWD?

      PS:Spreadsheets are only good for sports rorts. LNP has cornered the market. ALP uses white-boards.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 01/05/2023 - 21:27
      +1

      Those are VW errors, it's a VW

  • brendanm on 30/04/2023 - 18:48

    What did vw say about it? It's not acceptable though. Could be camera, radar sensor/s, processing unit, windscreen, radar alignment, probably a bunch of other things.

  • deme on 30/04/2023 - 19:07
    +5

    All the quotes from your owners manual appear on the SEAT website

    Do they even sell here?

    https://www.seat.com/datamanual-manual/ibiza/my23_w45/en-uk/…

  • Euphemistic on 30/04/2023 - 19:12
    +1

    You say you hav had lots of trouble, but you neglect to mention what steps have been taken to rectify the issues.

    You are unlikely to get a refund if you haven’t allowed the car to be serviced or opportunity for them to rectify any issues.

    • deme on 30/04/2023 - 19:12
      -1

      I assume OP hasn't even told the dealer the problem yet

      • Euphemistic on 30/04/2023 - 19:15

        I see now in a further post OP indicates the car has been back several times.

        It’s unfortunate that they cannot replicate the errors because it’s impossible to fix something that appears to be not broken. Perhaps it’s time to set up a dash cam or something to record the issues and driving conditions.

  • CrazyBargainCatcher on 30/04/2023 - 19:13
    +2

    Those errors sound like VW group. Most likely VW or could be Cupra as your car is quite new.

    EDIT - Few people beat me to it.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2023 - 19:26
    -5

    I would not care about any of these errors. They sound like useless junk safety features that I would never use. So if ripping all those things out prevented the errors that would be fine by me.

    That said, I would find constant error messages annoying, and would not buy a car I was told would constantly annoy me with them.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 30/04/2023 - 19:33
    -4

    Keep your lemon scented VW cos you’re not getting anything

  • thesilverstarman on 30/04/2023 - 19:40
    +21

    As a mechanic, these appear to be all symptoms of one cause. They aren't separate issues.
    Sometimes you will get something similar happen if the battery voltage drops. Late model cars need a strong and constant power supply. Some cars have an auxillary battery fitted under the dash etc just to power the various computers and sensors. A normal battery will not be good enough, and in some cases even a calcium battery is no good. Some need a large glass plate gel battery, which is expensive. The downside is that these plates being glass, are susceptible to shock, and if you hit a speedbump hard etc could break.A slight voltage drop may not be enough to trigger a code, and can be very hard to find.
    it also could be a part of the ADAS system, which is the system that controls all of the accident avoidance stuff. It is a complex system. One simple sensor for example, a parking sensor, could play up and play havoc with the lot. It may be as simple as having it recalibrated, or isolating the part.
    I do not think that it qualifies for refund etc. One problem is not justification. I would be going back to the dealer, or calling the Aus Head office of the car manufacturer or importer and asking them to repair the problem. But be aware that a modern car is very complex, and that some issues may take time to find. An intermittent fault has to be showing up when the vehicle is examined. Think about if there is a common thing that happens. Eg when you accelerate, when the temperature is cold, if you go over a bump. This can help to isolate it. I would suggest that you ask them to examine the battery/batteries if two are fitted, and to try recalibrating the ADAS system if they have no other ideas.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2023 - 19:49
        +1

        That's the difficulty with intermittent issues though, they can't replicate the problem, so there is no problem to fix.

        • Mintee on 30/04/2023 - 19:52
          +2

          so; as a consumer you're expected to just have features not work randomly - I dont feel this is reasonable. Especially when some do impact the vehicles safety features

          • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2023 - 19:53
            +2

            @Mintee: No, but then it becomes how long do you want them to keep the car looking for something they're unable to find?

        • Zondor on 02/05/2023 - 09:15
          +1

          Thats why error codes exist in order to log faults when they happen.

      • thesilverstarman on 30/04/2023 - 19:59
        +5

        You presume that they can see and find the fault. If they plug in their scan tools and there are no faults logged, and they drive the vehicle and cannot replicate it, then what should they do? An intermittent fault has to show up in order to find and fix it. Thats why Im suggesting that you think about when it happens to see if those conditions can be duplicated. Another option may be to request that the service manager or head mechanic take the vehicle home with them to see if they can get the fault to happen.
        The worst faults are intermittent ones. I have had one in my workshop that only happened when it rained. I could not reproduce it with a hose etc. I had another one that the temperature would randomly rise high, but it took a 2 hour drive to make it happen for me. Sure I could just put all my time into driving a car around trying to get it to happen, but It may never happen. Its like a dr diagnosing a patient. They patient tells them the symptoms. The doctor has to use tests and experience to find the cause. Guessing is no good. Its the same with modern cars that have hundreds of electronic parts.The VW, Audi, Skoda, Cupra family are connected differently to other brands. The parts communicate differently. An older holden may have had one central computer that everything connected to. These cars are connected in line with each other, so if a part if faulty it can affect the next part connected to it. Neither system is better or worse. All modern cars are very complicated. That's why I suggest contacting the importer or dealer head office and talking to them, as they may need to authorise a more detailed examination

        • Mintee on 30/04/2023 - 20:16
          +4

          There was other componentry failing (not listed in my original post) which was failing in hot weather (which sucks that where in winter because I can no longer check that the replacement parts fixed the problem) so I understand what you're saying. I've reviewed some of the dashcam footage I have of when the errors occur in my original post; I cant put a common denominator for errors of the same type and do see it quite random. Even though I'm a very routine person.

          I guess, I'm in quite a privileged situation where there is other vehicles in the in the household have similar ADAS features although from different marques, they've never experienced anything like this.

          You work so hard for things, expect things to work, this is not where I've purchased a 10 year old used car…. I would expect the reliability of a new car.

          • Malik Nasser on 30/04/2023 - 20:39
            +1

            @Mintee: Yeah as a consumer it is not suppose to be your problem to sort out manufacturer issues.
            As a mechanic, it is hard to fix a problem that is intermittent and wont replicate itself whilst you are trying to diagnose the issue.
            My first thoughts was also that it could be a battery issue. As mentioned, when the voltage supplied is insufficient, it can produce all sorts of squirrely issues.
            Really the dealer who sold this to you should keep this until they can figure it out, and supply you with a courtesy car, however customer service these days is failing, and people are only interested in making a quick buck, and washing their hands of all responsibility.
            On the other hand, if proper customer service was enacted, I guess the cost of cars could also be much higher.
            All the best in sorting this out.

          • bbinc on 01/05/2023 - 09:09

            @Mintee: A good back end service system should be noting the occurrences of these types of errors that HAVE been diagnosed, and data basing them internationally. Local service centre queries database, and finds reported problem usually fixed by recommended action. Simples.

          • bbinc on 01/05/2023 - 09:20

            @Mintee: Very frustrating. Intermittent is a nightmare, but as has been said above, there should be a fault log they can check. Just a thought - I notice you have a dash cam. In two vehicles I used to get odd faults early in my drives. Turned out to be low voltage after several days of non-use. Self diagnosed by checking the battery voltage with a multi-meter often and noting the pattern of discharge. Fixed by unplugging the dash cam when parking in carport. No more problems. YMMV.

            • Mintee on 01/05/2023 - 10:34

              @bbinc: The way my dash cam is configured is that its not hard wired. I have a CellLink Battery B under my seat that charges only when the vehicle is on, the battery then powers the dash cam

              • bbinc on 01/05/2023 - 11:25

                @Mintee: Thanks for that. That would make life easier!

      • justgooddeals on 01/05/2023 - 20:30
        +7

        OP I think you have every right to feel aggrieved and or upset and people are down voting you for it. It amazes me that others think it is perfectly acceptable to pay good money for new car and have issues.

        Then down vote you when your reply was polite and answered respectful; if someone frustrated.

        You would have to be a saint to not be frustrated

        • Mintee on 01/05/2023 - 20:39
          +7

          Awwww i genuinely appreciate this reply. Ive re-read over some of my comments and questions why i was negged so harshly… Are my expectations really that high?

          A factor in buying a car is its features, for them not working randomly really puts doubt in the entire product

          Simplifying the example:its like watching a tv, then your tv randomly switches off then back on, or some days you cant watch channel 7. You wouldn't accept that… Why is a car so different? Am i missing something?

          • SpicyStew on 01/05/2023 - 21:35
            -3

            @Mintee: you're missing validation so you posted to seek validation

      • JungliChilli on 02/05/2023 - 07:53
        +1

        I agree with this. I've experienced the same issue with dealerships. The standard response is always we couldn't replicate the issue. What they should do is try to look into components that could have been causing the issue at a minimum if the issue can't be replicated. But nope that seems too hard.

    • NigelPearson on 01/05/2023 - 15:38
      +1

      "Some need a large glass plate gel battery … being glass, are susceptible to shock"

      The glass batteries I have seen have fibreglass in them – a glass MAT (e.g. AGM) – but never anything with a glass plate???

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery
      "Vehicles used in auto racing may use AGM batteries due to their vibration resistance"

  • JimmyF on 30/04/2023 - 20:01
    +4

    VAG aka VW…. sounds about on point for them.

  • Protractor on 30/04/2023 - 20:20

    more vehicle buyers regret.It must be contagious

  • coffeeinmyveins on 30/04/2023 - 20:38
    +7

    The whole "cannot replicate the error" is total BS, from the sounds of it this is a Cupra, so a 2022/2023 model car right? These things have more tech than a spaceship in them, it will 100% be LOGGING all the errors it encounters for them to diagnose at a later date.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 02/05/2023 - 08:51

      Probably the main computer/ECU is failing and they don’t wanna replace it for some reason. Lame.

  • Drakesy on 30/04/2023 - 21:50
    +2

    Euro?
    Yeahnah, run

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 01/05/2023 - 00:13
    -1

    My car is six months away from celebrating its 10th birthday. It just hit 75,000 km, and recently the seat belt not on warning (driver's, of course) is now flashing and chiming that I don't have my belt on - I always do. Annoys the heck out of me. I took it the dealer, the chime/warning light never came on during their test. Might have to go take the auto maker and dealer to ACCC and ask for a refund ha ha ha ha ha

    Oh yeah, make = Subaru, model = Forester

    :D

    • payless69 on 01/05/2023 - 08:42

      Subaru's never die, the just get unloved.
      Classic fault when food or drink dropped down the buckle.
      Just spray a can of contact cleaner down the hole whilst instering the hook endless times.

      • kiitos on 01/05/2023 - 09:46

        Thanks, will try this too.

      • smartazz104 on 02/05/2023 - 00:13

        Unloved = blow head gaskets?

    • kiitos on 01/05/2023 - 09:45
      +1

      Snap! Our Forester is 2 months away from 10 years old and the seatbelt warning came on for the empty right side rear seat last week. It was chiming for a few minutes, eventually stopped.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 02/05/2023 - 09:57
      +1

      Might have to go take the auto maker and dealer to ACCC and ask for a refund ha ha ha ha ha

      Not sure what you're trying to get at here with your sarcasm. Your car is 10 years old, OP's is 6 months.

  • saltypete on 01/05/2023 - 08:02
    +2

    Had an MG hire car for a week a little while ago that did this. Very irritating and actually made driving unsafe a couple of times. Really useful experience as an MG EV was under consideration as an option.
    Now off the list.

    They’re not just ‘electronic gremlins’. Those warnings are safety related and must work properly for the life of the vehicle. If they can’t fix it they should replace it if it is happening in a new vehicle.
    They have materially contributed to the ANCAP rating for the vehicle and without them working reliably you have been provided with a vehicle that does not have this rating. Safety rightly trumps cosmetics and appearance.

    They need to fix it or give you one that works…

  • Bilby s on 01/05/2023 - 08:26
    +2

    Unfortunately there are some cars that are not financially viable to be fixed by the dealer and oem. These cars are usually driven by employees or simply sold via an auction on an as is basis. As a result they get recycled into the market without any new car warranties as car companies will often argue that they have no idea of the prior service history and wash their hands of the matter. I would suggest you take the issue up with fair trading with a full history of issues and an independent workshop report. The items you mentioned are electrical and safety related.

  • Ryk on 01/05/2023 - 09:14
    +1

    "Dodge assist" - sounds like a Jeep or RAM. apparently not?

  • Herbse on 01/05/2023 - 20:09

    A car doing this would not pass a roadworthy and therefore would not be able to be purchased and transferred to the new owner without being fixed.

    So you'll be selling the car without rwc and in broken condition at the buyers risk.

    I would buy it, for $4.50.

  • mousie on 01/05/2023 - 20:12
    +1

    How did you buy a brand new Holden Captiva?

  • greatlamp on 01/05/2023 - 20:56

    My suggestion is to buy a OBD reader and get the error logs yourself.

    • Mintee on 01/05/2023 - 20:59

      Im contemplating this even though i dont want to. Then what, go to the dealer and say these are the errors, fix it?

      I don't have enough experience on how these work. Would i need to make sure i dont turn off the car to see the error? Or why am i getting a scanner, is it to call the dealers bluff when they tell me they cant see any errors logged?

      • greatlamp on 01/05/2023 - 21:17

        I don't think you want to be accusing them of anything, but it's a starting point.

        If the car is under warranty from my understanding the dealer doesn't wear the cost of repairs, so they have no reason not to help you. However someone else may correct me.

        For how they work, you probably need to find a guide on YouTube. Logs are saved by the car, you don't need to experience the error while using the scanner. Generally it involves working out where to plug it in, and turning the key over to accessories.

        Sometimes logs don't mean much, they are reports from various sensors which will require some experience to understand.

        If you were to email them the logs over time you will quickly build up a trail of written evidence that something is not right, which will be very helpful if you need to escalate beyond the dealership

      • coffeeinmyveins on 02/05/2023 - 09:59

        I don't have enough experience on how these work. Would i need to make sure i dont turn off the car to see the error? Or why am i getting a scanner, is it to call the dealers bluff when they tell me they cant see any errors logged?

        It's a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the port under your steering wheel, generally near where the front boot lever is. Then you connect to that dongle with an app on your phone and it shows you the error messages in real time.

        I got one for ~$40 from JayCar. Not sure what newer cars have but it's probably the same port, but you can just google it to find out. It'll spit out error codes that you can then google the answers for.

        . Then what, go to the dealer and say these are the errors, fix it?

        Correct. it gives them information on what is happening. If they can't reproduce the issue and then you come in and go "when it happens, it throws up error #943" they'll know what it means.

  • SpicyStew on 01/05/2023 - 21:20

    use as leverage for bargaining power then buy

  • imrichkid on 01/05/2023 - 22:14
    -1

    Holy shit yo

  • Miami Mall Alien on 02/05/2023 - 12:54
    +1

    Wtf is it people withholding the make/model of their faulty cars in these kinds of posts like it's classified information?

    Do you really care more about saving face about your ill-informed car purchase decisions or do you genuinely want people to help?

    Because it makes a huge difference if you share what specific car you have, that way people who've had similar issues with the same model can chime in or in the case of well-known defects/faults with a particular make/model, it'll help narrow down a cause.

    Seriously… f**king OzBargain logic.

    "I have a problem with my car!"

    "What car do you have?"

    "I CAN'T DISCLOSE THAT!"

    "Jesus… take it easy."

    "DO NOT ASK ME WHAT CAR I HAVE AGAIN!!!1!"

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