There were people like rektrading were talking about how great it was to put your money in some staking scheme for some absurd amount of interest.
All of these people seem to no longer post or at least don't post about cryptocurrencies.
What happened to cryptobros? They made it sound like taking you should invest all your money into it.
i hold some crypto, mainly bitcoin, but really only as a hedge incase shit really hits the fan and it takes off. but i wouldn't be betting the house on it, as i still expect it to come down as the stock market continues to correct this year, but happy if it decouples from the stock market.
Depends on why you're looking at Bitcoin.
If you're looking at it as a short-term investment - then yeah, similar level as playing pokies, trading $GME, etc.
But if you're looking at Bitcoin as an alternative currency, then it's got chops (IMO).
People need to distinguish between crypto-bros (alternative currency) and crypto-hoes (🐒🍌💎👐🚀🌙) as well as the differences between BTC, ETH and [insert *coin of choice here]
Why would BTC be the 'new' currenecy when it has insane transactions costs?
How is it a good alternative currency?
People say buying bitcoin is the same level as playing pokies, but it's not. Even if you bought bitcoin at the last high and it's now crashed 83%, if you hodl you will eventually make it all back and even double, triple. You can never do that with pokies.
Yes you can, you just gotta keep playing until you win the jackpot…..
That's different, you're putting more money down in the pokies.. In regard to Bitcoin, you just hodl until the price comes back up, and then sell… Can't do that with pokies.
As opposed to say property?
What's your advice for those people who bought the top in 2021/2022 and currently in negative equity? Double down on the bet until you win the jackpot?
You clearly don't understand what investment risk is. There is no guarantee that you will make your money back, no matter how long you hodl. What you sound like is someone who has been dumped and is waiting for that phone call from the ex, telling them that they want to get back together. Bitcoin and crypto as you know it are dead in the water. All the people pushing it made their money and have left you holding the carcass of an idea. After waiting and watching the inevitable collapse of the crypto bubble, the worlds leading economies and their banks will just pick the best bits off the carcass and develop their own crypto, which will be regulated, backed by the government and more importantly controlled by them. Did the fanboys really think that governments would just surrender their banking and currency system, just because some clown on youtube is standing next to a Lambo sprouting financial nonsense.
Forget the clowns and the lambos for a second.. Put that aside.
Historically, the Bitcoin price has crashed and come back bigger and stronger every time. I'm of the view that it will most likely do this again, based on past performance.
Your view is that it's dead and it won't. That's fine. But in my opinnion, if you look toward the past, the odds are in favor, bitcoin price is coming back. So if you've lost money buying it at the last high, I think your chances are good to keep hodling until the price comes back up and then you sell. You can't make your money back this way by gambling at the pokies.
@mikeangelo: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results"
For what you know, Xi Jinping could wake up tomorrow and declare whoever uses or holds BTC is an enemy of the state and will be prosecuted - you watch your BTC go to zero real quick.
@liongalahad: Lol you know why that's funny. Because, there's a running joke in Crypto circles about China banning bitcoin again, for the hundredth time.
Anyway, I disagree, Bitcoin won't go to zero if that happens. But, what you are saying is the same for other investments too like property. If the government abolishes negative gearing, property most likely crashes too. But it won't go to zero, neither will bitcoin.
@mikeangelo: If you believe Trump speech today WW111 is coming . EMP bombs deployed in that situation will make BTC worth a nice 0 .
But no one advance enough to think of all situations here .
@mikeangelo: We have already seen this, Xi rekted the property market in China. They broke the ponzi by introducing the 3 red lines restricting developers from borrowing more money which meant they couldn't finish their current projects.
Along with other policy changes which conforms with the principle that houses are for shelter not for speculation, property prices in China has gone off a cliff.
If the ALP abolishes negative gearing, property will drop. I reckon the ALP will do this after their first term if they win the next Federal election with an increased majority. Dutton is useless as seen with the Ashton By-election, so that will most likely happen. ALP's first reform is very weak sauce, I fully support it, but it should go further. Those super changes are very very safe politically.
Bitcoin going to zero has been prophesized since its inception, its very unlikely it would happen.
China has already effectively banned Bitcoin.
@techlead: The only way the ALP is going to touch negative gearing at this point is if the Greens keep winning seats away from them and they need to form a coalition.
The myth that negative gearing helps renters is still alive and the construction industry thrive on dogbox apartments
2013, 2016, 2018 and 2019 called, they'd like their talking points back, you are a few years late with it, its very stale.
Your post would make a great addition to here https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/.
I've heard this argument before when Bitcoin crashed from $1000 to $200, its dead, and then from $19900 to $3300, it will never recover. Well, Bitcoin has proven them all wrong and will once again prove you wrong.
What you are saying is nothing new, it wouldn't age well, just like all those articles here, https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/, have a read, all aged like milk.
If that's true, then investing in property is also the same level as playing pokies?
Some can argue more risky than pokies, because you can only lose 100% of your money on pokies, but with property, you can lose more than 100% due to debt, like those people who are currently in negative equity right now. Look at the owners of Mascot towers, everything is gone AND they own the bank money. Yikes! Worse than pokies.
Can we read any significance into rekt’s last comment being on the first day of this financial year?
I heard they crashed their Lambo. Now back recovering in their mums basement.
What - no insurance?!
Crypto bros don't believe in insurance. They don't believe in crashes.
Guh
That's not true, we believe in crashes and expect them. I've been in crypto since 2013, I've survived many many crashes.
Crashes are one of the certainties of life. Its a lesson property investors in Australia and around the global should learn, they think everything goes up always, they have gotten a pretty rude awakening. Those who are already in or about to be in negative equity.
insurance? that's just gambling.
Barely any Australian homes have basements don't they? The only houses I've seen with them were owned by rich families.
They're now bankrupt
Haven't heard from @rektrading in a while.
Buy high, sell low..
Also a fair few have been done for spruiking the likes of FTX and Celsius without fine print outlining they were getting paid for it.
So probably tied up in litigation.
Assuming people only purchased crypto with spot, no leverage, they can never be bankrupt.
I have zero debt, I always buy spot only. I've been in crypto since 2013, still not bankrupt.
I noticed there were a lot less sentences that had words replaced with emojis.
🚀🚀🚀
I was one of the smart ones who swapped out of coins and into NFT's.
I'm yet to check on the investment gains but I'm sure I'm a millionaire by now, at least.
Surely can't go tits up?
@Serapis: Matt Daemon told me that fortune favours the brave. And I take all my life advice from him exclusively.
I work with the crypto boys, one guy sunk 40k into some coin @$15, it's now barely $1. We don't talk about crypto anymore…
His total $40k or $1 ea?
Total $40k, they were investing like it was property, I warned them.
I read that as sank $40k into a coin @$15ea, coins now <$1ea
| # Coins | Value (ea) | Total Value |
|---|---|---|
| 2667 | $15 | $40,000 |
| 2667 | $1 | $2,667 |
| Total | -$37,333 (loss) ~93.3% |
good bot
Thanks, you are taking my generalised numbers to a high level of precision. 93% loss is savage!
@lew380: How about 100+% loss?
That's even more savage. Moment of silence for those who invested in property and are in negative equity at the moment.
I still talk about crypto
Last week saw the release of the 2023 ‘Economic Report of the President’ - an annual overview of economic progress in the United States. This year’s report was a whopping 500 pages long and, for the first time ever, included a section on cryptocurrency. No mention of bank failures though…
It'll be there in the 2024 report, most of the data seems to run up to late 2022 which is likely when they started compiling it
it was a ponzi, and you run out of suckers when the price goes down
greedy fools will jump in again when the hype is right, to carry the bags of cryptobros
Most of the people pushing crypto were no into the underlying crypto technology, they were just trying to make a quick buck.
When the price was going up, they were very vocal, but when the price crashed most of them disappeared (clearly the 'making a quick buck' regime had ended).
Most of the people that are truly into crypto dont push it. They may mention it in passing, or try to educate those that are interested, but are not trying to spruik anything.
I find Andreas Antonopolous a good promoter and introducer to crypto.
This old YouTube presentation of his is a good starter for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8UdbvrWyvg
His approach to investing is appropriate for all investments, not just crypto.
Those who are into the tech don't call it cryptocurrency. Still can't buy anything with crypto with ease, other than maybe other cryptos.
They usually talk about blockchain technology.
CryptobroKEs.
They'll be back. I'd give it maybe 5 years when all this is forgotten and inflation / interest rates are no longer such a shock. Watch out for laser eyes on Twitter.
I doubt it. The fundamental thing which crypto relies upon is that the most wealthy people on the planet will just throw up their hands and give up fiat domination.
It also requires them to choose Bitcoin, rather than the most logical option - make their own coin.
Haha, another good point. I think it's just sensible to invest in actual tangible things rather than make believe money.
@FallaM: If Bitcoin achieved what the cryptobros pretend it does - an alternative currency - then I wouldn't have any problem owning some.
An alternative currency isn't an investment, and it isn't a 'path to financial freedom', it's a means of exchange. That means you would buy enough to conduct your business. That also means it needs to hold its value, it shouldn't go up or down erratically.
Bitcoin has failed as a means of exchange, transaction costs make it not feasable. So why own it? Because you think it will increase in price. Why should it have any price if it provides no value to anyone?
Of course people ignore all logic because betting on speculative investments can be very profitable.
All the same cryptobro logic can be applied to many other bubbles. They know about Tulips, but they ignore one much more relevant and recent. The bubble in Silver. Something real and physical, still a stupid investment
Bitcoin is sold as the little guy standing up against the establishment which is structured against them. They don't tell the little guy it depends on them putting their money in at higher and higher prices not questioning what does it really mean.
It is a store of wealth away from the rich and the establishment. So that is the theory.
Look, fundamentally all of their forum posts on fiat discussion which, as we all know, isn't real. What happens if the forum goes bust, eh? Who will back the fiat discussion then? Much better to have crypto discussion which is backed up on the blockchain, so it'll be around forever.
Retired?
hodling for better days
crypto got hammered for 1 year. when that happens, everyone shuts up, gets depressed and forgets about it.
but if you ignore emotions and you zoom out, you'll notice a cycle. BTC goes up for 3 years, then down for 1.
https://bitcoinmonthlyreturn.com/storage/images/tables/btc-f…
personally i think it's a great time to invest right now, then sell in 3 years.
I wondered where you were, welcome back
never went anywhere i just don't post too often. surprised you noticed. thank you.
but if you ignore emotions and you zoom out, you'll notice a cycle. BTC goes up for 3 years, then down for 1.
if it were that simple that it could be noticed on a graph, wouldn't everyone think that way? who would you be selling to in those circumstances?
also, the actual pattern is "crypto goes down when the Winter Olympics are hosted outside of North America".
if it were that simple that it could be noticed on a graph, wouldn't everyone think that way?
perhaps i'm being a simpleton? i'm assuming it will repeat that cycle as it has done so since BTC inception for 3 cycles so far (12 years).
it can be noticed on a chart.
https://www.tradingview.com/x/4oCQPOlG/
your average dude isn't looking at a chart over the long term though. they're coming into the market when everyone's talking about crypto, it's on the news, etc. they are trading with their emotions and getting greedy at exactly the wrong time. then when it crashes they lose all their profits and more because it feels wrong to sell 'at a loss'.
as warren buffet said "be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy." doing this in practice feels like going against your gut, that's why it's hard to do IMO.
who would you be selling to in those circumstances?
you never really have to worry about someone to sell to. $18 billion worth of bitcoin was transacted today.
perhaps i'm being a simpleton? i'm assuming it will repeat that cycle as it has done so since BTC inception for 3 cycles so far (12 years).
Except your first of three cycles by your first graph was 5 years of returns, not 4. Well, 4 1/4? Either way, my Winter Olympics covers the data more reliably.
Incidentally, I note that the 'up' years have a fair few months of 'red' negative returns [and the down years have a lot of blue. 5/12 months of "down" 2014 are up months. 2021 was apparently an 'up' year, but half the months are 'red' loss months]. Have you factored in "knowing" the year to sell is still only going to give you a 50/50 chance of hitting a "blue" month?
This is obviously important because your 'year' overall gain or loss position [blue or red] is the overall average result of the preceeding 12 months. It's not like 2014 was a loss year because everyone made crazy money in the January - November months and then everything was wiped out in December.
Warren Buffet's quotes need to be taken in deeper context. He won't invest in an industry he doesn't understand or hasn't held up to investigation of where the gains come from. "Trust us, computer stuff makes money" has never swayed him. I'd be very surprised if he was into crypto as an investment for those reasons.
@Crow K: 4 1/4 years of returns = i'm not following where you're referring to? anyway, here's the chart showing the cycle of 3 years positive and 1 year negative. this is based on calendar years. https://www.tradingview.com/x/teVNGel1/
2014 = 5 months were up technically, but 2 of those were 0.22% and 1.15%. overall the year was over 50% down. a terrible year for a holder. if you want to buy and sell inside a 12 month period that's fine, it's just not for me and my risk tolerance. crypto is very volatile and i'm not going to try and cherry pick a good month or two during a shit year. hence i'm just using longer term trends.
2021 = yes very volatile. i accept that i will never call the absolute top or the bottom. my strategy is to DCA in and do some lump sum buys after aggressive movements to the downside over a 5 month period. when it comes around the time to sell (2026), the same thing but in reverse. that way i am getting in and out around what i believe to be the perfect time.
warren buffet = fair enough and i respect that opinion. for me, crypto has low adoption (3% in aus, 13% in usa) so there's still plenty of upside potential, and it has value to warrant new investors, primary because:
1) it allows for permissionless, high speed, low cost transactions to anywhere in the world.
2) it's a store of wealth. BTC and ETH are scarce assets unlike fiat which is printed like crazy.
Wasn't there a new one a couple of weeks ago? Not sure, if I see any mention of crypto I just move along.
The cryptobros who knew about it before 2016? Laughing with their millions of dollars.
The cryptobros who tried to ride the huge wave AFTER 2016? Most likely broke.
The cryptocasuals who used it in their diversification of their investments? Fine, as always.
I personally know someone who over a few years invested pretty much a years salary into crypto as he tried to ride the wave, and it crashed and burned horrifically. I always like to remind myself that balance is the key to most things. I invested some 'meh' money into crypto in 2017 as I was young, making decent coin and it turned out fine. Crypto is just a less reliable investment over something like property or even just studying "real" markets.
Yep. I'm a cryptocasual, up to 5% of investment portfolio. Rebalanced late last year and took some profit. Need to put more back to get back to 5% now.
The cryptobros who tried to ride the huge wave AFTER 2016? Most likely broke.
The cryptocasuals who used it in their diversification of their investments? Fine, as always.
I don't follow the logic on this. The people who put in too much when it went to nothing are broke but the people who put in a "balanced amount" when it went to nothing are 'fine as always'?
It's pretty clear?
If someone used it just to diversity, they can't lose their shirt when they lose that part of the portfolio.
Alright, replace "invest in crypto" with "throwing their money down an actual sewer grating".
If you 'only' do it with 5% of your money to diversify, you're doing 'fine as always'?
@Crow K: Yes. Because you've only lost 5% and not your entire net worth.
That's … the entire point of diversification, it's a a fundamental part of risk management.
What are you actually trying to say- that someone who was diversified would be bankrupt and would be on the verge of losing their house?
@rumblytangara: I'm not sure "I didn't lose the money I didn't invest" is a way of saying "i'm doing 'fine as always' when I invest (some) money in crypto".
@Crow K: Have we encounter some strange semantic misunderstanding here?
My own net worth has been up and down probably 30% over the past 12 months. Ditto literally everyone I know in my age group.
I'm fine.
None of us had anything in crypto (one guy had about a years worth of salary in crypto and managed to get out without blowing it, we were all surprised he was in in the first place, and impressed he didn't lose it).
Or course, my default position is it's better to have nothing to do with crypto, but if someone loses five percent of their assets via investments, then that is really not big in the scheme of things.
@rumblytangara: I agree entirely. The point is it's a misconception to consider your overall position as an evaluation of the merits of a specific diversified investment.
Crypto went to zero (for this discussion). The guys who put in 100% of their money did terrible on crypto but the guys who put in 5% of their money.. and this is the key difference to the original wording here … they also did terrible on crypto.
If they're otherwise doing fine with the other 95% of their money, that's not a reflection on crypto.
It would be equally misleading to have a category of "and the cryptonaysayers who never invested are doing GREAT", for instance.
Centrelink.
The government always catches up with you in the end
He went to the moon 🚀🚀🚀
All scams are pretty similar. When they first start out it's easy to make money and people buy into it not knowing any better.
Once many people lose their money/it collapses a few times people wisen up.
You still have scammers spruiking their wares here and there but it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that cryptocurrency/the metaverse isn't as big as people thought it was.
the metaverse isn't as big as people thought it was.
If life was so bad you need to escape into another world and suffer from dry eye balls. Reminds me of that movie called: Don't Worry Darling
Hodling
:D
When your neighbours and Uber driving are talking crypto it's probably time to start selling. These cycles are surprisingly predictable, basically if you do the opposite of the majority you can do alright.
Another key indicator is when your mum or dad asks about this Bitcoin thing, and asks you to buy a blockchain. That's your signal to get out.
Right here stacking sats bro.
One of the shares rektrading kept ranting on about is down near 60% since….
I'm still waiting for Dink Doink to moon… any moment now… the more it falls the more it moons afterwards, right?
Moved back in with their parents. Investing their JobSeeker into vape importing dodgy deals.
Cryptobros would all be in hibernation at the moment.
Crypto is obviously extremely speculative and bear markets hit speculative assets hard. It's not hard to see the general market sentiment is very bearish.
I'm sure they'll all come out of the permafrost as soon as we're back to a booming bull market.
The house always wins
They got wiped out by Terra lol
You know it’s time to load up when you see these kind of posts
This thread is looking like a haven for salty crypto trolls who want to vent and unload on supporters…
I think you're in the wrong thread!
It's not that people are salty. It's because all the spruikers come out when they think things are going their way (the "I told you so" mentality) trying to convince everyone else to get into it too. Now that things aren't going so well, they're nowhere to be seen or heard from.
I wonder how many people read the previous posts that spruiked crypto and made some sort of investment using the advice (only to lose money) and now everyone's disappeared.
Well, it's bit harsh to generalise and say it was all of us ! There were plenty of sensible comments as well about how to invest into Crypto, but of course ignore that and focus on the really stupid ones that came out and did what you just said.
ah, my bad - it wasn't everyone. There were a few very vocal ones that took every opportunity to convert any comment they made into something about crypto
- directly and indirectly.
Defending Tate.
You can make a fair bit if you're flipping degen coins without trying to hold. There were a lot of coins that launched a few years back promising high returns for staking.
I just bought in early and flipped it at the initial peak, they always crash so it's not worth holding. Safer this way and went in $200 at a time and flipped for 5-10x each time.
A lot of people bought into the whole 100%-1000% ROI but didn't understand that your ROI was in terms of number of coins you would get as return and didn't account for the coins dipping in value. You might get 10x the coins at the end of the year but the coins could lose 99% value at the rate they were printing them.
I've been out of the degen crypto game for a while so not sure what's in at the moment, last time I stopped after tomb fork season.
I arrive at the start of bear markets and don’t leave until I’m done
im sure one day the cryptoboys will be back and in greater numbers too
The cryptobros are those that the smart money dump on.
Yep at least when you put in $100 into the pokies, lose $50, you can still get your other $50 back.
Crypto has major risk selling your junk through exchanges when it crashes.