There were people like rektrading were talking about how great it was to put your money in some staking scheme for some absurd amount of interest.
All of these people seem to no longer post or at least don't post about cryptocurrencies.
What happened to cryptobros? They made it sound like taking you should invest all your money into it.
If anyone is interested, these are brilliant videos on the subject matter:
Some say he got rekt, some say he made it and is currently on his own private tropical island sipping Mai Tai’s, with monkey butlers and coconut nintendos.
That's a Bond character right there.
I am going to vote he got rekt based on this comment shortly before he stopped posting.
Lol what about techlead tho? He got smoked.
Apparently lost 200k on that. If he has not been selling since then, he has made a whole lot more losses. No idea if he is still in the green.
@Aureus: I'm still green because I do Dollar Cost Average (DCA). I buy when people are scared, eg the last few months.
All the crypto I bought in the last few months are green, like BTC below $17k USD or even below $20k USD, bought heaps at those levels.
As for Luna, I came out with a slight loss, in hindsight, wasn't good buying the dip on that one.
I made a mistake on that one.
@Oofy Doofy: Just as property investors are sure that the property market will rebound and continue its upward trajectory, I'm also very sure that the crypto market, Bitcoin especially will do the same.
See you when Bitcoin is over $100k USD each. There will be bumps and crashes along the way, but that's how crypto is, if you can't take the roller coaster, go buy a bond, a term deposit or property. Volatility is a double edged sword, yes property is not as volatile, you don't gain as much as well.
I hear the same arguments why Bitcoin is dead when it was at $1000 and it will never go up again. Bitcoin has proven these sceptics wrong again and again and again. Have a look at these obituaries. Bitcoin has died so many times.
@techlead: Why would you even feel the need to justify crypto on Ozb if you are a $10-100M winner?
What other than pride is in it for you?
Are you that emotionally invested in this dreamy venture?
Or is the model based on expansion like all scams?
One thing I will agree with you on, is that BC will take some time to die. There's a lot of 'spinners' to "come in" yet.
Why would you even feel the need to justify crypto on Ozb if you are a $10-100M winner?
I see alot of myths and misconceptions about crypto, so posting here is one way of fighting that.
What other than pride is in it for you?
Its also about education. Why do you think the mainstream media is saturated with stories about, look at this young person with X properties, or this person with X millions portfolio (conveniently leaving out or glossing over the fact they a huge portion of that is debt in an interest only loan) etc.
Are you that emotionally invested in this dreamy venture?
Who is not emotionally invested in their investments? I have property investing friends, they are just as emotionally invested in their dreamy ventures too.
Or is the model based on expansion like all scams?
So property investing is also a scam? I see so many ads on Youtube and other online media about property seminars and how good investing in property is. Why do they need to do that? Is their model based on expansion just like all scams?
Generally speaking, all investment models are based on expansion, without it, there's no growth.
@techlead: So property investing is also a scam?
Yes, if you take into account, the motives of the greedy cohort( you know the ones who created,and profit from the now toxic rental and house price outcomes, the amount of foreign ownership allowing non citizens to back door their way into our systems and economies.
The artificial manipulation of market prices as per the recent ABC report.
Growth is exactly what is going to kick out ass. Real soon. Unless you can defy physics, the human population level is about to discover that infinite growth (to appease 'investors' aka growth) and finite natural resources are about to collide . (Not head on, either) the out of kilter capitalism freight train will rear end nature taking them both over the cliff. (throw in climate change and war as a side show) Happy Easter. Happy rolling in the ethereal beauty of a mirage!
@Protractor: I personally don't think property and cryptocurrency investing is a scam, but others like to say cryptocurrency is a scam and I'm just demonstrating that by their logic, property investing is also a scam. I'm just pointing out their flawed logic.
I agree with you, we need to take gambling/speculation out of the property market. Property is for shelter only. If we don't do this, its going to get a lot worse, look at Hong Kong and their cage rooms, you don't even get walls, just a cage.
Woah going long Luna in May was about as risky as you can get. Hopefully he's learned his lesson about risk management.
Wow the amount of wanky buzzwords in that thread
Yeah. I was lost after the third post!
Lmao, he brought into Luna, the biggest crypto bust in history.
No wonder he doesn't post anymore, that must have destroyed his worldview on crypto
All we know is… he's called the Stig!
I traded my dogecoin for a Tesla.
You got ripped off.
I traded my Bitcoin for a house.
Win!
@EightImmortals: Admittedly not for the whole house and if I waited I would have made more $$$ from BTC. Then again buying pre-COVID everything was cheaper.
@Clear: You should have held off. I can trade my Bitcoin for multiple houses, but I only need one to live in. Don't believe in property investing.
@Clear: The Bitcoin I bought just mid March is 50% up. I've taken some profits.
You are not going to be able to compare property returns with Bitcoin returns. They are not even in the same universe, not even the same ball game.
I sold down part of my portfolio to get around $8 mil cash after tax, I began using that cash to buy aggressively late 2022, by mid March 2023 I'm down to my last $200k cash. I did most of my buying when Bitcoin was sub $17k and $20k. Now I've sold some to lock in some profits to ensure I can pay my taxes this year and buy a house outright (I'm not going to since mortgage rates are still quite low). I'm currently in the market for a new house.
On a side note, banks are quite nervous when they see you have a load of cash, it was a bit of a struggle to get approved for a mortgage, they kept asking me, why don't you just buy the house outright? I kept telling them, are you my financial adviser? If not, then its none of your business, I'm apply for a mortgage, you job is to assess whether I quality, I don't think having too much cash is a disqualifying factor?!?! In the end, I had to state in writing that I will not put more than 50% of the loan in the offset account for the first 3 years before I got approved. They didn't say what the consequences would be if I dishonored this deal though.
Nothing beats crypto returns.
@SBOB: If you never touch leverage, what losses?
My initial 2BTC which I bought in 2013 for $1600USD total was down for more than a year. I didn't sell, what loss have I suffered? I think I was down 50-60% at one point, maybe more, but I didn't sell, I hold those 2 BTC to this day, what losses?
Its the same argument my property investor friends make, they are down because some bought in 2022, but they are like, paper losses only, not a loss unless you sell. haha :P Same principle, except Bitcoin has zero holding cost (apart from the cost of the hardware wallet), while property has many many holding costs.
@techlead: Apologies, my bad
Crypto only produces positive returns…
Carry on.
(Nothing better than an asset holder of any category only preaching the gains and highlights, and either purposely or blindly ignoring any matching potential negatives or losses that the asset category clearly also has…. and I say that as someone who has crypto, but only pocket change compared to your average $100 million asset holder crypto bro)
Crypto only produces positive returns…
I disagree with you on that. No investment does that. Not property, not shares, not even term deposits (you can shafted by inflation), and definitively not crypto. There are plenty of people who have lost investing in crypto, just like in property and shares.
Nothing better than an asset holder of any category only preaching the gains and highlights
I don't just preach gains, I've also highlighted the downsides of crypto. You can read my AMA here, https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/613895.
and either purposely or blindly ignoring any matching potential negatives or losses that the asset category clearly also has
I've been pretty upfront with the potential and realized negatives in the crypto space.
I've been pretty upfront with the potential and realized negatives in the crypto space
If you say so.
If you never touch leverage, what losses?
I traded some bigcoins for something at the $2 shop.
i traded wink coin for a pizza
Rektrading was a Bitcoin maxi so not sure what yield you would be getting on that.
Was also lending it out via a platform like Celcius. They would be lucky to get it back. The idea was to pump the pay check into bitcoin, take out a margin loan at 1% to live off. Wait until it goes to the moon and keep taking out loans, never having to pay CGT.
Can't get 1% loans now even if you can do you trust the people holding your assets after FTX, Celcius, Voyager etc.
pretty sure he's said not your keys not your coins before but cbs checking
If you have it in cold storage then how do you also lend it out? Can't be two places at once.
But hey I've been fool at least once. Can't believe everything you read on the internet.
Think I pointed that out and was ignored.
@netjock: This is the correct answer. The only way you can generate yield is with the wrapped version (WBTC) which I would definitely steer clear of.
did rektrading say to lend it out?
They said many things and much of it is contradictory (borrow against it, yet not your keys not your crypto, lend it out). I have called them out many times that it is all just gibberish for the uninitiated. Sounds like selling having your cake and eating it which is not possible.
there's non-custodial lending so…
Sure! Like Wall St wouldn't have worked it out if there was money to be made.
Non custodial lending. I assume you mean you lend it out directly? It is like your so called mate borrows your car, crashes it then runs off and you're left holding the bag? You need to know who you are dealing with. Unless you are famous and people need to pay you back, when it comes down to it you can join the queue of creditors. For say 10% return you going to spend a couple of hundred thousand and months in the courts to try to get your crypto back? Even Celcius / Voyager with all their customer funds couldn't get their money back from 3AC.
A podcast a few days ago was having fun saying out FTX was bailing everyone out and everyone was thinking they must be really good but it just turned out they were using customer funds. Bianance "have no office anywhere in the world, so we're outside of the law" now bailing everyone out seems like trouble waiting to happen.
Problem with crypto isn't crypto. It is all the dodgy characters who create companies that are run badly or try to be too smart. LTCM (run by Nobel winners and PhDs) told Warren Buffett they won't fail even with a six sigma event but you know statistics say one thing but real life they do happen.
What about Kwon Do of Luna / Terra fame? Anyone could tell you pegging two coins without any physical asset backing is you say I say we're worth the same until there is run on one and you try to sell the other to no one who wants it.
Seriously it is the same joke as bank runs. You have a $600k mortgage with the bank but only $300k in offset account, if everyone wants to pull their money from their offset then where is the bank getting the $600k to lend you? Magic money tree.
Problem with crypto isn't crypto. It is all the dodgy characters who create companies that are run badly or try to be too smart.
Scammers are gonna scam and Criminals are gonna crim.
Hiding from family & friends whose money they invested
Or maybe making ❤️ to some gullible thing on Tinder if they can send some money via western union.
It’s the internet, anything is probable
Techlead is still posting on his AMA thread. Seems to have a few disciples too, though rekt has disappeared
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/613895
Yeah, that guy was regurgitating the standard rah rah rah arguments on here just last week.
That's because people are saying the same old rah rah rah arguments from back in 2013.
They are nowhere to be seen at US$19k for bitcoin. Now they come out of the woodwork at $30k because there is a chance going into $60k.
I saw on Twitter, bitcoin might come back down.
It is all based on emotions and whether there is enough people who thinks there is something to the fundamental premise (right or wrong).
Remember 2008/9 when they had bank bail outs globally and how it was inflationary? We saw asset price go up but not essentials. Now they have real QE to the people 2020-22 and see what real helicopter money looks like.
I would love it if Bitcoin fell to below $20k. I've bought so much when it was below $20k and $17k USD these past few months.
I'm nowhere to be seen when Bitcoin was at $19k USD because I was busy buying. Now I can sit back and relax a little.
It is all based on emotions and whether there is enough people who thinks there is something to the fundamental premise (right or wrong).
That's the same with other investments. Do you think property prices are based on fundamentals? Definitely not at these levels. Property prices are so far from fundamental values, its just froth from people's emotions and FOMO.
Huh, BTC has gone up a bit recently. I use the free $30 of BTC I got with the Luno app to track the value. It got below $15 last year, but now my $30 of BTC is worth $21. I should have just cashed out the $30 right away…
hindsight is a wonderful thing
if you had 20/20 hindsight you would make way better returns on the ASX or NYSX than on crypto, plenty of penny shares jump 20%+ a day then crash a week later
I just wish I had a million dollars to invest early in Afterpay. It was so obvious to everyone it was going to the moon.
I just wish I had a million dollars
Why didn't you put $10k into it then? Or even $1k? $10k X about 150 would have been a cool $1.5m.
I thought it was a stupid idea and never would have invested in it.
@brendanm: I should have. Always been a bit wary of these kind of investments though because it's still gambling at the end of the day, even with good odds there's no guarantees.
@AustriaBargain: $1000 isn't much of a risk if you are so sure if the result though. That's still a handy $150k.
so obvious to everyone it was going to the moon.
"hindsight is a wonderful thing"
I bought at $2.20.
Sold at $15.
Thought I was a genius!
hindsight is 20/20, i think you mean 20/20 foresight
Whoever has 20/20 foresight will be the richest person in the world.
theres still a chance if you buy $ASTS spacemobile, they trade on the NASDAQ, and are launching satellites to provide 5G phone & broadband service to regular handsets, they have agreements with all the major telco's, including Telstra, Optus, Vodafone in Australia. they have their test results coming out soon in conjunction with AT&T (everyone was expecting them at their earnings call last week, so the stock tanked 20%). currently valued at around 1 billion market cap, but could go into the 100-200 billion market cap by 2030-2032.
partners will be doing all the marketing for them, so for example telstra will add it to their plan for say $15 a month, with a 50/50 revenue share between telstra and AST Spacemobile.
no real competition (space x and tmobile deal will only be basic text, eventually images and calls, globalstar and apple is basically just emergency sos, and only with new iphones etc)
Nice try pumper
test results coming out soon
And if those test results are below expectations and it all falls apart you'd be lucky if it x2 in 10 years. It's all still gambling.
Bro the hottest thing on the market right now is actually ornamental gourd futures… or burying barrels of crude in your back yard before the OPEC production cuts kick in full gear
Everyone has 20/20 hindsight lmao, except for someone with dementia or some memory loss disease.
Well, the 2BTC I bought in 2013 for $1600USD total was down for over a year. It didn't break even until 2014.
I'm very glad I didn't sell. These 2BTC is a family heirloom now.
When BTC reaches $0, will anyone still bother hosting the blockchain until you have grandchildren?
When BTC reaches $0, will anyone still bother hosting the blockchain until you have grandchildren?
Let's see when that happens lmao.
Right now, the people "hosting" the blockchain is more than ever before, despite the price not being anywhere near the top.
@techlead: Right but people used to host loads of beanie baby websites, now there's not a single one still up.
@AustriaBargain: Haha, same old debunked talking point.
Beanie babies and tulips are not comparable to Bitcoin. In fact, you can't even make the connection between Bitcoin and Tulips based on the astronomical price. Tulips was a flash in the pan moon then crash, it never recovered, yet Bitcoin is into its 4th cycle now of higher highs. Its very different. Tulips don't have a decentralised, censorship resistant and permissionless network on which most of Bitcoin's value is based.
How are Beanie babies similiar to Bitcoin? Can't see the connection there, apart from being a niche asset? Bitcoin is no longer considered that niche anymore. There are approximately 200,000 Bitcoin transactions daily as of November 2022. There are about 45 million American crypto users and 420 million global crypto users as of 2023
Not sure why people get upset at crypto. Buy some, or don't. People have different risk/reward levels.
Because people preach it like it is a gift from god. It is on the same level as playing pokies.
Exactly. There's kids out there convincing their grandparents to pump money into it. And it's now easy enough for them to do it with apps. You know the scheme as reached peak when grandmas are showing you their crypto portfolio on their iPhone.
This is so true. The moment I saw all of the crypto ads on television and people talking about their crypto portfolios I knew it was at it's absolute peak. Wish I had enough hindsight to buy somewhere between 2010-2017 and have the same thought about it's peak.
@FallaM: Should have bought when I was reading about people running farming on their computer labs at work and people buying a pizza with 50 BTC. But it all sounded like such a scam. Plus I probably would have had my wallet hacked before cashing out or whatever.
@AustriaBargain: When I first saw BTC, it was at $0.12. Cbf farming it and couldn't really find anywhere to buy it that didn't involve direct trading with people, so I gave up.
How's this different to other asset classes?
I've been preached to by my parents and grandparents to buy property like its some religion and the "only" way to get rich, this is also parroted by the mainstream media as well. I have proven them wrong, as I couldn't have amassed my current net wealth with property.
How many front page news stories have you seen which talks about how people got rich from investing in property?
@techlead: The difference is you can't live in a bitcoin or a beanie baby even if their value went to $0.
@AustriaBargain: This is also a very well worn out talking point.
You can't live in an investment property either. You can't live in a gold bar. You can't live in a $100 note either. Although, you can create an umbrella out of $100 notes and live under that I guess. You can't live in a share. You can't live in a bond.
What you can do, is sell that asset into fiat and buy a house to live in.
@AustriaBargain: If you live in an investment property, it is no longer an investment property by definition.
You can ask the ATO why.
@AustriaBargain: It is, but if its an investment property, you are not allowed to live in it. That's the rule.
@techlead: But you can convert an investment property that's worth $0 into a regular property. You can't convert a $0 bitcoin into property. You also can't convert a beanie baby worth $0 into a property. But at least a beanie baby can be converted into a dog toy. A bitcoin is worth nothing at all once it falls out of investor favour.
@AustriaBargain: Your first premise is very far fetched, bordering on absurd. When has property gone to $0, and why would it go to $0 like due to war or some catastrophic event like a nuclear power plant leaking? In those examples, you can't live in it, like properties in Ukraine, there's no house anymore. Even properties in mining towns in WA hasn't gone to zero, they may fall 90 or even 99% but not $0.
If your property went to $0, there are much much more pressing things to worry about. Eg, do you think the people in Ukraine are gonna worry about property prices going to $0? Their property is not gonna be worth $0 unless its on the frontlines or doesn't exist any more. In either of those scenarios, you can't live in it anyways.
You need to take all the circumstances into account, property doesn't go to $0 in a vacuum, there has to be a reason. Same goes for Bitcoin, possible scenarios of Bitcoin going to $0 would be nuclear apocalypse, the internet being wiped out etc, money would be the last thing on your mind when these things happen.
You are using end time examples. When these end time come, we will not worry about money.
It’s very close but I’m still marginally ahead with crypto as opposed to pokies… and don’t even get me started on the outlandish multis.
I’m still marginally ahead with crypto as opposed to pokies
Disappointed that you didn't 'suit' it five times!
@freestuff So losing 5-15% on average every spin is the same as Cryto Clueless ?
There are people that don't do this as well? I would never tell someone to put any money into crypto they aren't prepared to lose. In saying that, I have some shares that are currently down 89%, so perhaps this advice applies to lots of things? I'm still up quite a bit % wise on crypto currently.
At least the pokies you are guaranteed to cash out.
Could it be that his username says it all… ?