Is Speed Enforcement in Australia Absurd?

Lspeedingftw on 21/03/2023 - 17:39
Last edited 21/03/2023 - 17:53 by 1 other user

Just recently got back from a trip to California, USA and one thing I noticed is that despite the speed limit being technically 65 mph on the freeways, most drivers did around 80-85 mph, even straight past cops and they didn't care one bit. Whereas in Australia, doing such speeds would usually result in a heavy fine and licence suspension in some states.

Every year more and more hidden speed cameras are being used in Australia, yet the road toll is around the same. Other countries, for instance the UK, has a road toll substantially lower than ours, despite it being common (haven't driven there but from friends who have driven there) it's also common to do 80-85 mph in the 70 mph motorways. Australian governments and police are hell bent on speed being the biggest killer in road accidents, when we only need to look at our European counterparts to see it's not the case.

Automotive

Comments

        • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 14:43

          Yes pros and cons, but of course you know, the problem is the kid being on the road in the first place. And you would also know you can stop at 40 km/ hour not so much at 80km.

  • 2esc on 22/03/2023 - 10:09
    +3

    Speeding at low speeds is where i worry about a kid getting killed when they cross the road. How often i get passed by someone then catch up to them at the light, next service station or they have pulled over for a break.

    What have they really gained?

    Think about this you might want to travel another 10 or 20 klm quicker but what about the hero that wants to do 50 or a hundred over the speed limit on highway and cleans up a family member of yours.

    But thats okay.

    • Poor Ass on 22/03/2023 - 10:21

      What do you think of speed cameras placed in areas where there have been no history of accidents and fatalities?

      • 2esc on 22/03/2023 - 10:55
        +3

        So the first time a accident happens in that area because someone was speeding lost control of their car and killed a family member of yours how would you feel?

        They dont put up cameras without a reason they like the revenue they could also of had complaints from locals regarding speeding.

        • Poor Ass on 22/03/2023 - 12:27

          sounds like a sensitive topic for you, emotions aside… certainly you don't 100% believe they put cameras up for the sole purpose of safety

        • Leadfoot6 on 24/03/2023 - 04:59

          HA!

        • speedingftw on 31/03/2023 - 09:17

          if they put up cameras on the straight, wide, long hume freeway (which is designed for a limit of 130+) do you honestly believe it's safety? just think for a moment, the 110 limit was introduced in the 1970s, cars and roads have become MUCH better in this time but the speed limits are the same or even reduced in some cases.
          and if you're going to use the argument about stopping distance raising exponentially with speed, why isn't the speed limit on the hume highway 50? one can stop a lot quicker from 50 than 110, hell let's stop using cars and walk! at 5 km/h! that would mean zero road deaths
          no, 130 is more than safe in modern cars, and australia has some of the safest cars (and roads) in the world

          you'd have to be brainwashed to think the hume freeway is set at 110 for "safety"

    • Leadfoot6 on 24/03/2023 - 13:19

      No, it is not OK.

      Advocates for increased speed limits are not the type to want complete derestriction.

      Just sensible increases based on better evaluation by the road authorities.

      And my method of driving is to look as far ahead as possible to minimise abrupt changes of speed or needing to stop altogether.

      I tend to keep my car rolling for as long as possible approaching stop lights or other traffic hold ups, and gently accelerate away.

      Minimises fuel usage/wear & tear.

  • furakoph on 22/03/2023 - 10:12
    +1

    Our roads are not good enough to support 120-130km/h unlike countries in Europe.

    Already so many dangerous potholes, increasing speed will damage the roads even more and also cause accidents/damage to cars going over potholes

    • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 10:58

      Our roads drivers attitudes are not good enough to support 120-130km/h unlike countries in Europe.

      • Leadfoot6 on 24/03/2023 - 05:01

        Change the attitudes of those that need changing, or raise the standard to possibly prevent the unworthy from becoming licenced in the first place.

  • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 10:15

    Do you not think it reasonable to travel at a speed experts have deemed safe for the majority?

    • bobbified on 22/03/2023 - 14:19
      +1

      Our speed limits are definitely not set for the majority. They're set for the "lowest common denominator".

      • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 14:37

        Even if that is true, it still means they are set for the majority. You know what a collision is?

        • bobbified on 22/03/2023 - 14:50

          it still means they are set for the majority

          have you seen the bell curve before?

          • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 17:07

            @bobbified: No go on explain it. And how it will stop a speeding out of control driver from killing your family.

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 15:53
      +1

      do you not think it's reasonable to travel at 130-140 if that's the speed the rest of the world does on their freeways?

      • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 17:09

        I thought you were fan boying over a particular state in America.
        Please provide the speed limits for the freeways for the rest of the world so I can decide.

        • speedingftw on 31/03/2023 - 08:47

          if you do a quick google search, not only does Australia have some of the lowest speed limits in the world, we have the strictest enforcement of speed limits too

          The government just wants people's $$$ in Australia

  • Therage on 22/03/2023 - 10:22

    Having personally driven for long periods of time in both UK and Aus on average we are quite similar in how we drive speed wise on the roads.

    Driving in the US with a friend who lives there I was told to speed up to match the flow of traffic (this was in LA), was going well over the limit but was driving at the same pace as pretty much all other traffic on the motorway at the time.

    Having lived in South africa they seem to have the same mindset there as in the US, you drive to the road / traffic conditions more so than the posted speed limit.

    What I take from this is that in countries where fines / demerits are more severe people on average seem to speed less and the % over the limit is less.

  • Devaust on 22/03/2023 - 10:32
    +6

    Go and f**k back off to the states and live there if you like it so much for their great policing. The states is a crime infested, hate ridden, class warfare, ideological extreme prone society that’s bent in waging wars and gun rights.

    But if driving above speed limit is all you care about then don’t live here. We don’t want idiots like you and I’m glad we have a much more accountable and respectful law enforcement culture and law abiding society in general compared to U.S.

    • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 10:56

      I sense that if OP has 'ever' really been to the US, he shat in the bed while there and isn't welcome back. Maybe S Africa calls, instead. Plenty of room.

    • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 19:33
      +1

      I'm happy with the OP being here.

      • CurlCurl on 22/03/2023 - 19:56
        +1

        I'm happy with the OP being here.

        Me too.

  • s1Lence on 22/03/2023 - 12:43
    -2

    Speeding = IQ test
    Don't get caught = high IQ
    Ge lt caught = low IQ

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 13:00

      How so?
      Ever heard of hidden cameras? Even if you're alert, there's no way around these

      • s1Lence on 22/03/2023 - 19:07
        +1

        If you need it explained, you've already failed the teat.

        • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 19:21

          You do realize hidden speed cameras are literally hidden right? So you can't see the camera

          • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 19:54
            +2

            @speedingftw: OMG, so don't speed. You don't like it then find a 'Speeding Party' and vote for them. Or move somewhere you can drive like you want. Until then you have an obligation to follow the law or cop the consequences.

            • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 20:00
              -2

              @tonka: Did the black population of South Africa follow your suggestions?

              Did they "follow the law ….." as you suggest that they should have?

              Or did they agitate for change against the former unjust regime of apartheid?

              I'm not a big fan of how South Africa has progressed since the abolition, but the old system was unjust.

              • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 20:03

                @s1Lence: Others may have a different opinion.

                • s1Lence on 22/03/2023 - 20:05
                  +1

                  @Leadfoot6: Others may have also failed the test. Btw, I wrote teat instead of test in my response above, the fact that you didn't notice and make a joke about it means you definitely failed the test.

                  • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 20:28

                    @s1Lence: Teat?

                    In a discussion about speed limits?

                    Do you have an unhealthy fixation with breasts?

                    Please point out(pun intended this time) where I made a joke about teats.

                    My reply to your earlier post was:

                    "Others may have a different opinion."

                    I do not see any attempt at humour in these six words.

                    • s1Lence on 22/03/2023 - 21:36
                      +1

                      @Leadfoot6: You're confused, perhaps your bedtime has come and gone. Or maybe it's the lead…

                      • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 21:38

                        @s1Lence: I'm confused by your "teat" reference in a discussion involving speed limits.

  • IMadeYouReadThis on 22/03/2023 - 12:54
    +1

    Mods should allow people to start the OP as anonymous so that we don't end up with ghost users that just randomly create new account with each of their post.

    • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 17:25

      Maybe leave a new forum topic heading up for a 24 hours period, and members (who have a certain length Ozb membership time), vote for and against the thread going up.
      Deter the trolling toddlers ruining cyberspace?
      Knock the chaff out early?

      Maybe voting options

      Bring it on
      Don't care
      Bin it

  • lonewolf on 22/03/2023 - 12:56

    Its a government revenue scheme / tax. It has nothing to do with safety. Even cops say this although not in public.

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 12:59

      Then why do cops themselves fine people for 5 km/h over the limit? And claim it's about safety?

        • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 13:04

          So basically even if a cop doesn't want to fine someone for doing say 115 in a 110 zone, they risk losing their job if they don't give the person a ticket?

          • lonewolf on 22/03/2023 - 13:08

            @speedingftw: Sorry, i meant to edit and i ended up unpublishing my comment. lol.

            From what they told me, there are periods where they have certain quotas to meet and other periods where they can be more lenient. It may also come down to how close they are to meeting the quotas, if they are easily going to make it then they can give warnings but if they have a long way to go to reach the quota then they need to give tickets out quickly.

            They also have to be careful that they dont get caught not giving out tickets as that can land them into trouble too.

            • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 13:17
              +1

              @lonewolf: Pretty shitty system though where they have to fine innocent motorists to meet there quota
              And rich people often just register their car to a business and pay a much larger fine to avoid the points from cameras altogether, whereas for poor people the fines + demerits put a massive burden on them

              • lonewolf on 22/03/2023 - 13:19

                @speedingftw: Which is why i think a lot of people have felt a demerits only system is far more fair than a monetary scheme as well. And then it will remove out the whole revenue making aspect out of it. But surprise surprise the governement doesnt want to go down that route, even though it will then be more fair on everyone as the rich and the poor will be affected / hindered to the same level.

                • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 13:21

                  @lonewolf: Well if the rich get all their points taken off, they can still get expensive lawyers to get them out of any license suspension, and even if that doesn't work, they can easily afford a taxi or Uber for a few months while their license is suspended
                  If people with less money get their license suspended, they're screwed in many cases, due to lack of public transport and cost of Uber or taxi

            • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 14:05

              @lonewolf: It's not a quota it's a blitz. (maybe multitasking is a bridge too far for plod?)
              Police always have a discretionary option. (cameras don't, but there are inbuilt rubbery goal posts)
              Cop to driver interactions, if you act like a dick, you will almost certainly get pinged.

              Anyway for all the crusaders out there, here's your data>
              https://data.nsw.gov.au/data/dataset?tags=fines
              Class action imminent?

              (would love to see the contradictory data that shows how many 'innocent motorists' get caught up.)

        • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 13:05
          +1

          A good start would be 120 on urban freeways and 130 on interstate freeways
          But the chance of this happening is lower than winning the lottery

          • lonewolf on 22/03/2023 - 13:10

            @speedingftw: Yes true, And also just on roads like James Ruse Drive or other major roads like Epping road etc, Where you can have 3 lanes each way and still have speeds jump from 80-40-70-60 etc etc. So you either always keep an eye on your speedo or the road. I guess soon with electric cars and cameras etc, they may be able to auto drive and maintain the speed even whenever it changes rapidly.

      • lonewolf on 22/03/2023 - 13:06

        Because they have quotas to meet. I was never sure till i had friends who were cops and a couple of them did end up telling me that. Most cops arent a big fan of the scheme but its part of their job. I am not saying we should have no laws or unlimited speeds but the way its policed and where they put the cameras and how a few Kms over is deemed unsafe is all about revenue. When we first started having cars, it was about getting them to go faster the safer they got, and then we seemed to now go back down and seems like roads are reducing speed limits the safer cars get.

        There needs to be a middle ground here between an acceptable level of safety as well as convenience and speed. As well as the fact that we have far far too many speed limit changes on our roads, its just insane how in a matter of a 1 km you can have soo many speed changes on the one road.

        Majority of the accidents i have witnessed have been drivers having no clue how to drive or no care and then other drivers are trying to get around or cope with this driver and in the process an accident occurs. I guess the other issue we have is the sheer amount of trucks on the road due to the largeness of australia and how to get freight around and what happens is cars trying to get around trucks or see past them and end up doing the wrong thing or a careless act.

  • THICKnSLOW on 22/03/2023 - 13:37

    What is absurd is the drivers who think being unattentive at the steering wheel is fine. I see way too many people playing with their phones and car screens.

    Those people should just catch an uber or taxi. Seriously.

  • cycleri3 on 22/03/2023 - 14:24

    Canada is same.. My uber driver was doing 140 to 150k in 100kph freeways

    • CurlCurl on 22/03/2023 - 15:12

      Canada is same.. My uber driver was doing 140 to 150k in 100kph freeways

      You should get a taxi from Bangkok to the hotel at 2AM.

  • shaybisc on 22/03/2023 - 15:11
    +1

    Whenever somebody tries to convince me that something, anything, is better in the USA, I reach for my gun. Of course there must be some things but beats me what they are. America is the anti- model.

    • CurlCurl on 22/03/2023 - 15:15

      Whenever somebody tries to convince me that something, anything, is better in the USA, I reach for my gun. Of course there must be some things but beats me what they are. America is the anti- model.

      The Burgers are bigger at Maccas if that's your thing plus, you can buy grog at servos.

      • shaybisc on 22/03/2023 - 15:18
        +1

        Now let me see if my anti-American bias holds water on this particular issue.

        Road deaths per 100k

        Australia 4.5
        America 12.4

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic…

        • CurlCurl on 22/03/2023 - 16:24

          Now let me see if my anti-American bias holds water on this particular issue.

          Road deaths per 100k

          Australia 4.5
          America 12.4

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic…

          Do try to keep up. I posted that link 20 hours ago.

          • shaybisc on 22/03/2023 - 16:51

            @CurlCurl: Noted but likely to happen again on multipage topics. I'm lazy.

            • CurlCurl on 22/03/2023 - 17:13

              @shaybisc:

              Noted but likely to happen again on multipage topics. I'm lazy.

              All good. I was just taking the p***. That link has been posted a number of times in this thread.

    • Leadfoot6 on 23/03/2023 - 19:44

      Then why do so many want to emigrate to the USA?

  • mezje on 22/03/2023 - 15:49
    +4

    Australian road policies are a joke.

    Road tolls will continue to rise whilst speed limits get lower and cars get safer.

    This is due to such a low barrier to entry in getting your license and road laws that condition people to only care about speed and doing whatever to not be fined.

    Focus needs to be on paying attention and focusing on everything while driving, including maintaining a suitable speed. Instead of wipe off 5, slow down etc etc

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 15:54

      exactly
      australia should learn from the rest of the world

    • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2023 - 16:30
      +1

      This is due to such a low barrier to entry in getting your license

      I disagree Australia has one of the strictest requirements to getting a license:

      Those under 25 it's much harder, those above 25 still harder but less burden.

      If we compare that to Japan well it's a nightmare the testing facilities (as after the first year of residing in Japan your international license isn't transferable if from America meaning you'll need to do the entire test in kanji and start in a testing facility, no mistakes)but after one year for Australians staying there as residents they can transition their international license and not redo the test like America.

      Why?

      Well because only 6 states in America are certified states that are exempt and can or could transfer their licence with no burden in Japan, any other states no because their not safe driving states.

      Incase your lazy: Japanese driver's licenses
      Japan has bilateral agreements with more than twenty countries, including Austria, Australia, Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United Kingdom, as well as the US states of Hawaii, Maryland, Ohio, Oregon, Virginia and Washington, to ease the process of acquiring a Japanese license. If you hold a valid driver's license from one of these countries you can get a Japanese license without taking a written or practical exam.

      Otherwise:

      Your free to Google it or ask chatgpt.

      • mezje on 22/03/2023 - 21:44

        Japan certainly has a horrible system but from what I have seen in Europe it is far more stringent.

        Japanese traffic school sounds like an absolute nightmare and from what I'm told is extremely expensive.

        Australia feels like a lottery, just keep trying and even if you really suck you will pass at some point.

      • Big L on 23/03/2023 - 13:10

        The US statistics for deaths per billion kilometres are almost 50% worse than Australia's, so we wouldn't be looking to them for any advice.

        Our licencing system is easy and known to be compared to other countries. Having a licencing system based on other drivers teaching you is a recipe for disaster.

        Our country roads suck and that's where the bulk of fatalities are (at least in Vic) where fatigue, higher speeds and attitude are key issues.

        If you want less speed cameras stop speeding, as they cost a mint and if they weren't paying for themselves and then some, they'd stop using them.

    • Mark1159 on 22/03/2023 - 19:37
      +1

      You realise Victoria’s road toll was 1100 in 1970 - now around 220

      • mezje on 22/03/2023 - 21:42

        I just fact checked myself and while I am indeed wrong it has remained very steady since 2009.

        It is interesting seeing the impact of key safety features like the mandating of ABS and the large drop in fatalities.

        Last 20 years have been a somewhat steady decline, last decade being very slow - which is potentially expected as you can never reach 0, humans gonna human.

      • speedingftw on 31/03/2023 - 08:49

        you realize that since 1970, cars and roads are a million times safer? yet many speed limits are reduced?
        and most other countries in the world (USA being a major exception) have lower road tolls than us despite much more relaxed speed limits?

  • luffyex2010 on 22/03/2023 - 15:54

    Here for your entertainment Australia Dashcam Owners

    Please Note: Lots of swearing 🤣

  • Myone888 on 22/03/2023 - 16:00

    Tradies are speeding around 110kmh on Eastern Freeway M3 all the time. Limit is 100kmh.

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 16:01
      +1

      that's not even "speeding" imo
      it's safe almost all the time to do 110 in a 100 zone
      and what eastern do you drive on?
      whenever I drive on it, everyone seems to be doing 90-95

    • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 16:23
      +2

      Well they won't be going TO a job, if they are speeding.
      Off to pool comp at the pub. Or racing over to the apprentices GF place, while he's stuck cleaning bricks. on site

  • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2023 - 16:24

    Pahf, Germany is where the parties at because there is no speed limit on freeways max out baby.

  • belongsinforums on 22/03/2023 - 16:34
    +1

    People still get murdered in Australia, despite our laws. We should just get rid of all our laws.

  • shaybisc on 22/03/2023 - 16:48
    +3

    I read something on the experience of driving on autobahns recently and the writer said she hated them, especially at night, especially on foggy nights, mostly because of the big speed variations. Get out of the truck lane, you're doing your 160 then someone races up behind you going 90k faster.

    New York transportation engineer Sam Schwartz, who has consulted on (and designed) transportation systems all over the world, tells me that speed limits are a good thing. “When everybody is traveling at about the same speed, when you have the shortest spread of speeds, that tends to be the safest,” he explained over the phone. “To have some people going 120 miles an hour and some going 75 miles an hour—that’s a pretty big difference and it’s pretty dangerous.” The difference in speed is the biggest factor in casualties, Schwartz continued. “I think it’s a mistake to have no speed limits. You need to have some kind of controls.”

    https://www.gq.com/story/autobahn-neither-fast-nor-furious

    • Big L on 23/03/2023 - 13:13

      The largest study of motor vehicle accidents in the world (at the time, '90s) was done by Monash University and they had the same observation, that the difference in speed more dangerous than exceeding the speed limit.

  • ShaneLikesABargain on 22/03/2023 - 16:54

    My Gripe is lowering speedlimits for 'consistency' reasons to lessen the amount of speed changes in a specific distance.

    E.g. Instead of going 60 to 70 and back to 60kmh they change it to 60kmh. I'll give you once guess where the cops like to sit. On the now dual carriageway with a vegetaiton median strip and no driveways fronting the road which used to be 70kmh and is now 60kmh and feels too slow for the road.

    Chat GPT helped me with the details. I listened to (and saved) a radio segment on ABC where this was discussed however struggling to find anything online to link to.

    ===================

    Question

    in NSW Australia. What was the name of the initiative where speeds were lowered on roads to align with neighboring speed zones to prevent changing speeds.

    ===================

    Answer

    The initiative you are referring to is called the "Speed Zoning Harmonisation Program" in New South Wales (NSW), Australia. The program was implemented to reduce confusion and improve road safety by aligning speed limits on local roads with the adjoining speed limits of neighboring areas. The program involved reviewing and adjusting speed limits on approximately 2000 km of local roads across the state.

  • Protractor on 22/03/2023 - 17:50

    Oh, I can see myself tearing up the road,faster than any other boy has ever gone, lalalala alala

  • PurchaseAnxiety on 22/03/2023 - 17:53

    Mixed feelings. The fine amounts can be a little crazy for something that could be a innocent momentary lapse in speed monitoring (i.e. you're not hooning or driving aggressively). Though the fines are also not hard to avoid, and traffic is generally safer and more predictable if everyone just drives at the posted limit. So I do think that should be encouraged and enforced.

    • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 19:00

      It leads to fatigue accidents from just looking at the car in front, or taking longer than necessary to complete a long trip.

  • TheGooniesKilldMyVCR on 22/03/2023 - 18:26

    If you take south aus in to count, 3 times the deaths from last year so far. Wait till winter with all the suv 75 yr old ning nongs

  • foxpants on 22/03/2023 - 18:47
    +1

    Definitely agree about the USA, drove around a few states there and like you say, most people doing 80-90mph on highways rather than 65-75, nobody seems to give a toss and law enforcement are pretty lax too, they just all get on with it.

    I also found that the feeling inside the car was palpably different virtually instantly, most people are far more lax than what driving here is like, here it's like "you can't take MY lane", "you're not allowed in front of ME", my experience in USA was so much more relaxed and easy going.

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 19:17

      Yup
      Driving is Australia is a pain, cops are way too focus on revenue raising from speeding fines, rather than actual road safety

  • Mark1159 on 22/03/2023 - 19:33
    +1

    Melbourne
    Population 1970 2 million road toll 1100 statewide
    Population 2023 5 million road toll 220 statewide

    Population increase times 2.5
    Road toll reduced by 1 fifth

    If not for speed enforcement, better roads, better cars, drink/drug driving, aeromedical rescue, road toll could be 13 000 annually in Victoria based on 1970 figures.

    Speed enforcement is one contributor to seeing we all live another day.

    • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 19:34
      -4

      It might be a contributor, but it's not at all the main contributor
      Safer cars and safer roads
      Stop being so brainwashed that speed is the only thing to worry about when driving
      You're the type of driver I'm looking out for on the road

      • Mark1159 on 22/03/2023 - 19:42

        Thankyou for looking out for me. And other road users, pedestrians and cyclists too.

        I drove emergency vehicles for 30 years, sometimes exceeding 200 kmh.

        Most folk aren’t trained to handle those speeds as a driver - or other road user.

          • tonka on 22/03/2023 - 19:58

            @speedingftw: Oh jeez , please delete this post before others see it and become as sad as I am for whatever brain trauma you experienced.

        • Leadfoot6 on 22/03/2023 - 22:42

          Those of us who have received that training are still lumped in with the untrained.

    • Speckled Jim on 22/03/2023 - 21:50

      Road toll reduced to 1 fifth (of 1970).

      Let the numbers shine.

      • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 22:47
        -3

        Our road toll is still higher than countries with lax speed enforcement (ie most other countries in the world)
        Your point?

        • Speckled Jim on 23/03/2023 - 07:24

          My point is self-evident. It was a correction to this comment by Mark 1159.
          It STRENGTHENS his point. He originally undersold the numbers; reduction BY 5% is very different to reduction TO 5%.
          Geddit?

          • Mark1159 on 23/03/2023 - 12:50

            @Speckled Jim: My bad.
            Is uncorrected typo. Intent of arithmetic is correct - my grammar is not.
            Thanks.

  • mlburnian on 22/03/2023 - 21:17

    Also in America, you can turn left on a red light if safe to do so. Australians love being policed closely and will adhere to any absurd law, as long as its law. The amount of ppl in Vic wearing masks outdoors when there was no one else in sight was mind boggling.

    • kaleidoscope on 22/03/2023 - 22:03

      Australians love being policed closely and will adhere to any absurd law, as long as its law

      You should visit singapore one day 😅. No chewing gums, no spitting on roads, no eat, drink in public transport, no this, no that, cane whacks for shoplifting etc

      • speedingftw on 22/03/2023 - 22:39

        Except you can speed without much risk of a ticket in Singapore too
        And chewing gums disgusting, no wonder it's banned

    • Eeples on 23/03/2023 - 09:47

      I think you mean turn right.

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