Is It Legal or Eligible Dual Nationalities to Apply Tourist Stream 600 from Foreign Passport

Disclaimer

Yes, I also submitted enquires to expert services, keen to discuss this here to see if anyone here had or friends heard of have done this in the past.

The scenario is,

An individual has Australian and other country (N) citizenship that doesn't allow dual citizenship.

The goal is to enable this individual to travel to and from to country N without N knowing its Australian citizenship.

The assumption is

Leaving Australia to country N using country N passport should be fine as AU airport confirms the individual has the right to enter the country

The challenge is

Returning Australia from country N using country N passport will require a legal visa to enter Australia

The question is

Could this individual apply travel visa 600 from country N passport when it also hold Australian citizenship?

From homeaffairs website, there is no eligibility statement that AU citizen can't apply 600, unlike 155 or 157 that highlight AU citizen can't apply.

The only catch is the 8558 condition - Non Resident: Cannot stay for more than 12 months in any 18 month period.

Many thanks

Comments

  • Not migration advice. It depends on what tourist subclass 600 visa you are applying for. There is tourist stream, business stream, destination stream etc. It is difficult to give advice, and this isn't advice anyway, without knowing more details. You can look at the clauses in Migration regulations 1994 Sch2 600.xxx. Again, this is not migration advice but if you were to seek migration advice then it would be $500 consultation fee.

  • The trick usually was going from N->M (M having free travel treaty with N) and then M->Australia with australian passport. A friend of mine go from Indo -> Singapore using Indo passport then from Singapore -> Australia using Aussie passport

    On the way in you also do the same thing Aussie -> M -> N

  • We are going to see you on Border Force.

  • +7

    You're over-thinking it.

    Firstly - as an Australian citizen, you are ineligible for a visa. Full stop.

    Next, when you are returning to Australia, this is what happens when you travel & want to 'hide' your dual nationality:
    1. Buy your ticket to Australia using your Australian passport details
    2. Check-in your bags & get your boarding pass using your Australian passport (this is where the comms with Australian authorities happens)
    3. Go through outwards immigration using your foreign passport. Do not mention your Australian passport!
    4. When you arrive in Australia - use your Australian passport again.

    Its in reverse when you depart Australia.

    Information sharing of travel movements between countries is NOT automatic, and no-one is proactively pushing info back to other countries about possible dual nationals. So long as you follow above process, you are 100% fine. :-)

    • +1

      Thanks

      • In addition, you'll find the moment you try to attempt a visa to go to Australia, you'll commit a false declaration saying that you are not an Australian citizen which will have serious consequences. There is no visa free entry to Australia, the most simple straightforward application still contains the above question at the very beginning.

        • Also to clarify the only passport that allows your hypothetical scenario is NZ passport with automatically generated visa but it won't cause the same dilemma you're facing.

        • Thank you, you had concluded this post, it's illegal to apply AU visa with other country passport for an Australian citizen because there is a declaration in the application.

          Cheers

  • I dont know if its true or not but i heard many many years ago if you can maintain duel citizenship and immigrated later in life you can get a pension from both countries. I cant remember which particular country it was we were talking about a Northern European one i think.

    • No dual citizenship required. If you worked in, for example, the UK long enough to qualify for a national insurance old age pension it will get paid to you if you now live in Australia.
      The AU authorities include this pension in your income, and if it is very much will give you a lower AU pension.
      Some countries won't pay an old age pension to people living overseas, so it varies tho.

  • -8

    It's incredible how naïve you are. The moment you took up an australian citizenship, the other country you hold a passport for would have bene informed of it as border security departments collaborate (shocking, I know).

    Just because you have still have a passport for the other country doesn't automatically mean you are allowed to use it for travelling. Especially given that the other country explicitly prohibits holding a dual citizenship, it's even more clear that they want only their citizens to travel on one of their passports. There may be laws around this, and breaching it might have severe consequences. I would check the immigration laws of the other country to know what those consequences are (I could imagine you being denied future visas to prevent you from entering the country, or deportation or arrest/jail time in the worst case).

    Could this individual apply travel visa 600 from country N passport when it also hold Australian citizenship?

    We were discussing what could happen in the other country so far, but this unintelligent move will open up all sorts of cans of worms (like if Australia doesn't know you're one of their citizens?).

    • That's factually incorrect. There is no routine exchange of citizenship or travel data between countries. Certainly countries will respond to specific requests for information if asked, but even then there are a LOT of hoops to jump through & many countries won't release information about their own citizens.

      There is much, much less routine info sharing between countries than most people think or expect. :-)

      • -2

        I've a colleague from India who did exactly this, and was detained at the immigration counter upon arrival, given an earful, warned of legal consequences including immediate deportation and/or possible jail time, Indian passport seized on the spot and the whole family (including a 5 year old) had to wait for hours before their situation was sorted out and were finally let into the country.

        I would not make hasty speculations (happy to take a look at anything you have to cite if it's not speculation) about what sort of information is exchanged between the department of immigration between various countries.

        • Maybe because he arrived and try to present his Australian Passport there and act as a tourist in India? Because if he has the exact name and dob (and fingerprint nowadays), then the immigration can match it and found out that he is Indian citizen as well?

          I know a a lof of people from Malaysia who are dual with Australian / American citizen and always go through Singapore and all are fine for the past 10 years.

    • +1

      It's incredible how naïve you are. The moment you took up an australian citizenship, the other country you hold a passport for would have bene informed of it as border security departments collaborate (shocking, I know).<<

      No this is not how it works. Australia is not informing your mother country about the fact you've acquired a citizenship.

      The only way for them to find out is:
      a) They find a passport on you
      b) You report and surrender yourself.

      • -2

        No this is not how it works.

        Is that speculation or could you cite sources for this? I would have assumed that it would be in the interest of all parties involved to exchange information to prevent things like visa fraud, passport fraud, terrorism, etc.

        The only way for them to find out is:
        a) They find a passport on you

        If I was not sure what ways exist for them to find this, I wouldn't risk it. But of course that's just me. Also read my response above to C grade cyclist (I'm not being abusive - that's their display name they've come up with).

        • You were the one speculating and assuming that is what happen with your Indian friend.

      • or commit crime such as raping Australian woman.

  • Your requirement sounds dodgy. Talk to a lawyer :)

  • Maybe travel via a third country?

  • +3

    I think this post is just a trap to catch all dual citizens on ozbargain.

  • +1

    just fly via a third party country where you don't need a visa to using your first natio.
    Most likely you will not be granted a 600 visitor visa on the grounds of you having aus citizenship.

    Furthermore, I was in the same boat, and my country does not recognise dual citizenship. Every time I leave my country, I show my country's passport to the airlines, once they ask for visa - I show them my other passport, without showing it to the passport control peeps.

    • Singapore is the best bet. Free tourist visa on arrival.

  • Hmmm so you wanna sleep with two partners and not get caught? Right…

  • -2

    You are asking to get arrested. This is illegal, do not do it. You just admitted that country N does not accept dual citizenships - so the only valid and legal passport you have is the Australian passport. If you are caught travelling on country N's passport you will be detained. gg

    • If you are going to make a statement to say it is illegal then please back it up with the actual law and punishment.

      • +3

        If you hold a passport from a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship after getting the citizenship of another country then that passport is null and void, you look it up, its obvious.. This guy must be an idiot to even write this up.

        • -2

          Still not illegal based in Australia allowing dual citizenship.
          You can't make a blanket statement without knowing the law.

          • +5

            @redslert: Yes having Australian passport is legal but having the other country's passport is illegal as they do not recognise dual citizenship and require the citizen to forefit their citizenship. Someone mentioned India is one of these countries and i did a quick google, takes 2 seconds.

            Keeping an Indian passport/acquiring an Indian passport/travelling on an Indian passport after acquisition of foreign citizenship constitutes an offence under the Indian Passport Act, 1967, and attracts penalties.

            • -2

              @cycleri3: Everyone who is holding multiple citizenships for such countries already know this… which is the entire point on this OP's question. The perspective of the question is from Australia not from the foreign country.
              Again, the question is from the Australia law. So do your google search for Australia law.

              • +4

                @redslert: Australian law ain't gonna matter when your being detained in india, on a passport issued by India that you are legally not allowed to have.

                • -1

                  @cycleri3: If you rock up to India, present your Indian passport, and waltz on through - you're fine.

                  Problem is if they search your bags & find your Australian passport. Then you've got problems. And only an individual can decide what risks they're willing to take… :-)

                  • @CGradeCyclist: This is assuming they don't have it in their computer systems that you hold another country's citizenship. Many countries have fully computerised systems now and know a whole lot more than you think.

                    Personal I am not dumb enough to take a risk like this.

                    • @cycleri3: They won't unless you tell them willingly or unwillingly. Australia is not broadcasting information about its citizens holding dual nationalities at this stage.

                      • @cauilfield: Yes I know, but some of these countries don't have the nicest legal systems or laws so this is probably one of the stupidest things you could try. If you get caught then you have no one to blame but yourself. Just go the legal route. This offence is probably a lot worse than just your usual fine for petty crimes.

  • Been through this during covid.
    I wouldn't be suggesting anything, but up to you to decide.

    During covid it was near impossible to get an AU-passport but needing to travel.
    Have foreign passport and simply applied for tourist e-visa and was approved.
    Asked consulate and their response was that it was not allowed without stating any legal clause but simply said if you an Aus then you need to use Aus… but didn't acknowledge the fact that they can't issue passport…

    What ended up happening was the consulate expediated the passport and help to get it issued before travel… so ended up using AU-passport. But I would have entered using foreign passport because legally dual citizenship and following the rules of the visa for x-days visit is not breaking any rules. Just don't overstay or work based on visa conditions.

    • There's a few things there:

      • Your citizenship is attached to you, the person It is not attached to your passport. The passport is evidence of your citizenship, but it is not the citizenship itself. That's why you are allowed in even if you forget your Aussie passport - you are still a citizen!

      • Australian Tourist e-visas are auto-approved instantly, so of course you got one. But you didn't actually need it…

      • As an Australian citizen, you can't be denied entry back in to Australia. The issue you do have is when you try to check-in (not immigration, but airline check-in). The airlines get a heavy fine if they bring someone over without the correct passport/visa, so they want to be sure you can fly. So even though you'd have zero worries arriving in Australia without an Aus passport, the airlines are obviously very risk averse and won't risk a fine. Most airlines at most airports have a hotline to call Aussie immigration if there's an issue, but if the airline is busy they may just tell you to get stuffed and sort it out yourself…

      • You can get an emergency passport issued at a foreign consulate/embassy, which is usually the best bet to ensure things go smoothly…

      • Yes yes yes… everyone who is responding here just keep saying it is not allowed without stating any laws.
        As I pointed out in communicating with the consulate they cannot quote any law either because there isn't any written rule for this!

        So unless someone can come up with a written Australian Law or precedent on this it is a grey area and very subjective!

        • It's not anything to do with Aussie law. We're allowed to have multiple citizenships. Multiple passports are allowed. OP is good here.

          Overseas country N law - who knows? But with people with families and relatives in other countries, it just makes it easy to keep the old country N passport.

          Compliant Australians assume the same level of legal/compliance elsewhere. It really depends on where you are in the world

    • I think you are missing the point of OPs post

      OP has knowingly obtained Australian citizenship when his original country specifically prohibits it

      The issue isn’t about visas etc

      It’s how can he deceive “country N” now that he’s violated their prohibition on dual citizenship

      • -2

        No, you have missed the point.
        OP is asking if they can apply for visa to show country-N on exit and re-entry, using the N-country's passport. I answered the question, yes you can apply but I have not experienced actually using it. Furthermore, I provided information regarding consulate response without ability to quote any law against it.

        • -1

          Sorry I didn’t get that from that rambling story

  • +1

    If you've held a permanent resident visa for Australia in the other country's passport before applying for AU citizenship, upon grant, the PR visa you held gets cancelled.
    However, they put a note on your VEVO record with the reason for cancellation, which was obtaining AU citizenship. So if the other country ever look up your VEVO records you maybe in trouble.

    • +1

      After getting my Citizen, yes the permanent resident visa will automatically expired in OZ immigration system. But in the Airlines system, it is not automatically updated. In my case, I would still have 3 years permanent resident visa when I obtained my citizenship.

      The one checking if I have visa is the airlines' check-in counter and not immigration. Airlines system and immigration is not connected (in my country at least). Even though my permanent visa expired, in the airlines system, it says that I still have 3 years remaining so they do not ask at all. They do not check against vevo. The first time you tell the airline you have Oz Permenent Resident visa, they asked to see your visa document and put a note in your file of your visa expiry date.

      After my Permanent Visa expired "on paper", the airlines' check-in counter did ask me where is my renewed visa. I then show my Oz passport and they said "Okay, all good."

      • Australia has mandated all airlines to use Advanced Passenger Processing system which is a link between airline boarding system and immigration database.
        https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/crossi…

        I'm not sure how long ago it went online and what level of transparency/update frequency it has.

        However, I would very much stay away from immigration fraud as much as possible, because if you ever get barred from any country (in this case, the previous country where OP holds the passport of) for whatever reason, that would have very bad consequences when OP is trying to enter a third country. Most visa/ETA applications have one question common that talks about being detained or deported. The world is becoming more linked that you think.

        • Yeah, the one checking is airlines and it will connect to Australia, hence why at check-in counter they will make sure you have valid visa.

          There is no way a country will share its citizens' details to others apart from say criminal investigation?

          The only reason why I keep my N country visa is because my family still lives there, otherwise I would surrender it a long time ago.

  • why is country N such a secret?

    • +2

      I ask ChatGPT.

      Qn: what are the countries that start with N and do not accept dual citizenship
      Ans: There is only one country that starts with the letter "N" and does not allow dual citizenship, and that is Niger. Niger is a country located in West Africa and its citizenship laws do not permit dual citizenship. This means that if you become a citizen of Niger, you are required to renounce any other citizenship that you hold.

  • Exit Australia using Australian Passport
    Enter N using N Passport
    Exit N using N Passport
    Enter Australia using Australia Passport

    The only hiccup would be this…. One having dual passport this could happen and has happened.

    Lets say to enter country N a regular Aus passport requires a visa, Aus immigrating might ask you if you if you have a visa to enter N and if you say no Visa but you have N passport you might get flagged but they will still let you go through.

    Same situation occurs travelling out of country N. They might ask if you if travelling to Aus requires a visa and if you say no but you have Aus passport you might get flag BUT they might not let you through

    I know ya just trying to save money to buy a VISA.

    But safest way would be for you to use Aus passport buy a visa to country N and exit country N with that visa too if it is a 2 way visa. This way no one no one will know if you have dual passports unless you bust yourself. It's the safest option if you don't want either country to know you are a dual citizen or dual passport.

    • Thank a lot, the catch is that applying country N visa will definitely trigger the country N passport cancellation alone with other procedures.

      Countries like N normally has rigorous visa review process.

      • Well….. you only got one choice if ya wanna keep ya n citizenship / passport and that's getting a visa for ya aus passport

        But then again… One day Aus and country N might share data and you need to give one up

        But let's not kid ourselves, country N has shit all benefits and if you had to choose you'll pick the Aus passport and citizenship… Ya just got FOMO and want to keep N passport for old times sakes

      • I know of countries that have laws that would trigger an automatic citizenship cancellation upon acquiring citizenship in another country.

        Do your research carefully because though this country N might not officially yet know that this has been triggered, but the day they realise it has, any consequences would be retroactive, if N is one of those countries.

  • I really wonder why op is doing this. And I hope it's not to get benefits that they are not entitled to…

  • +1

    Waiting for your next ozb post:

    "help me, I'm in immigration detention in country N, how do i get out"

  • If (N) country does not permit dual citizenship what happens when your (N) passport expired in due course - how do you renew it?

    • You simply go to country N to renew it

      • but what if you are outside of country N and it expired?

        • Well OP can either get a visa on his aus passport and go to N to renew it

          Or

          Renew it in N embassy in aus

        • +1

          Make sure you don't let it expired. Because renewing N passport at N embassy in Australia will definitely get you caught.

  • It this a joke?
    The post is asking assistance how to break law.. of 2 countries…

  • +1

    Immigration process for entering and leaving Australia requires citizens to use Australian passport. To answer your question - you won't be able to use country N passport to get Aussie tourist visa.

    The options are quite simple:
    1. Go via third intermediary country
    2. Use Aussie passport at Australia, N country passport at N.

    Australia allows multiple citizenship. So not breaking any Australian law.

    Brilliant reading a lot of these posts - we Aussies really are a compliant bunch, even though we think of ourselves as happy go lucky larrikins! Australia/NZ has the strongest immigration laws and border force! Where else in the world do people worry about a stray banana at immigration?!? a lot of assumptions about other countries record keeping and immigration law!

    If you know country N - you will know how harsh they are and how much they care at the airport. Just be careful at immigration. If caught, some countries let you go with "whoops I forgot - I'll do it next time" or certain countries could make things difficult. Just understand the risks and the amount the country N actually cares.

    • solve the mystery for us already - what is this country N?

      • Sounds like Malaysia

        • maybe the N refers to the N in india?

          or the N in Indonesia?

  • immigration fraud is what this is

  • well that depends, if said person is a sovereign citizen then they can do whatever they want..

    • If one is a sovereign citizen they shouldn't even have a passport…

  • Got a similar issue. Partner (British) gets her citizenship tomorrow, we have tickets to fly to the uk at the end of April. Me being the cheap ozbargainer doesn’t want to get a fast tracked passport for her. Immigration website says you “should” leave Australia on an Australian passport not “must”.
    If her passport doesn’t come in time, will she be able to leave Australia on her British passport and re-enter on it?

    • Your situation is different as UK allows dual citizenship. The OP wants to break laws as their country N does not allow dual citizenship.

      Regardless your partners passport will arrive in a couple of weeks or by first week of April at the latest, assuming you apply tomorrow itself.

    • You can exit Australia fie (but it will take extra time as Immigration will have to match your details.

      You can enter Australia fine (but again, extra time while they sort it out)

      Issue you MAY have is check-in (NOT UK Immigration, but airline check-in) in the UK when you go to depart. They will want to confirm you are able to travel to Australia and be let in (or else they will get a huge fine). There'll be no visa attached to your UK passport (obviously), and you have no evidence of your Australian citizenship (ie your Aussie passport), so they'll likely deny you boarding. There are ways to get that sorted out, but it relies on getting the right airline staff who are trained in what to do - which is a risk…

      Honestly, for all the palaver involved and the real risk of being denied boarding by the airline, I'd get the expedited passport.

  • +1

    The australian government is aware of your predicament and has a solution for you. They call it a declaratory visa (931). So you want to apply for that rather than a tourist visa (600).

    https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/form-listing/forms/931.pdf

    • It's murky for me. This visa requirement is "has the lawful right to also hold another passport" which is not the case for OP? Lawful in which country?

      • Is it considered a “compelling reason” that OP wants to defraud his other country of citizenship?

        • Just checked on home affairs website

          “Loss of other citizenship” is explicitly stated as not a compelling reason for an ADV

          https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/foi/files/2022/fa-220400160-d…

          Then again OPs other country of citizenship has explicitly stated holding dual citizenship is prohibited and he went ahead and did that anyways so why not apply for the ADV 🤷‍♂️

          • -1

            @parsimonious one: There are plenty of good reasons you can spin. For example in Iran you could be subject to harm.

            If you can make the case that you will be traveling to an unfriendly country you might be okay.

            Also as an aside, both of your passports are linked in the system and so if the airline person uses your foreign passport it will show as approved to travel.
            Same as using your other country's passport in the egate (if eligible)

            • @meowsers: Yeah there are plenty of good reasons

              It’s just that home affairs stares OPs reason of not wanting to reveal to his original country that he has Aus citizenship lest he lose his original citizenship is one of them

  • It works on some countries like Vietnam but won’t work on countries like nepal and china. It’s sorta straight forward. You can take Aussie passport while exiting Australia and present your country passport at arrival and vice versa. But do understand, if that country don’t allow dual citizenship then your relatives might sue you for all your assets in that country and you will lose the legal battle. Captain flies away

  • You cannot enter AU on a visa if you hold an AU Passport.
    Data matching when you apply for any visa will decline the visa application.

  • Dual citizen lose all consular access rights if travelling on the wrong passport.
    But hey rules change all the time so if you feel like gambling, why not?

  • Got my Citizenship appoval today and the letter specfically stated.

    "After you have attended your ceremony and become an Australian citizen, your permanent
    visa will cease along with any visas your children hold and must not be used for re-entry to
    Australia. If you or your children intend to travel outside Australia, you will need to apply for
    an Australian passport."

    I hope its clear any other visas "MUST NOT be used for re-entry to Australia" once you are a citizen.
    https://pasteboard.co/5saoepNaGAST.jpg

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