I do not understand them. Maybe they are a bigger car but not too big, i.e. a Santa Fe or Kluger.
Do not have the economy of a 4 cylinder
Do not have the power of a V8
Do not have the long distance ability of diesels.
I ask this having once own a Santa Fe.
Unfortunately, in the not so distant future the question will be 'what's the point of V8's'?.
It will be for the noise.
You want smoothness or reliability, go for electric.
You want power? Merc has shown what a 4cyl hybrid can do, or Tesla.
Long live ICE engines with more than 4 cylinders.
Unfortunately, in the not so distant future the question will be 'what's the point of V8's'?.
We're already there. Any modern V8 has a very limited use case beyond just wanting one. Don't get me wrong, I love a V8 and the cars I've driven that have had them, but there's now no real reason to own one.
One day soon, we'll reminisce about the V8 burble
and 3 cylinders, 5 cylinders, narrow angle V6s, straight 6s, V10s, V12s and boxer engines.
The poor 4 cylinder will be forgotten lol
Hey, no problem, the car manufacturers have the answer for you. Synthetic engine noise. A whole lot of companies are already doing it. Even Holden did it with the last of their actual real V8s. They weren't allowed to have a noisy exhaust, so they fed a synthesised noisy V8 sound into the cabin to keep the sort of people who bought them happy. They got the noise they wanted. No-one else had to put up with it.
You could say the same about any engine that produces more than minimum power. There’s nothing limited about a C63 AMG and it even has decent fuel economy, I could get by with a MG3 but I want the C63. That’s a valid reason for them to exist.
The advantages of V6 over inline 4 are:
The disadvantages are:
The cons are mainly around cost, so this is why they are only seen in more premium cars, and economy cars tend to stick to inline 4s (turbo or naturally aspirated).
A V8 further accentuates these pros and cons, so it makes sense that there is a middle ground (V6)
Before you compare a turbo 4 to a N/A V6, remember you can slap a turbo on a V6 too.
It won't be until he hoons around with his partners baby daughter in the next car that they both realise it's not the car that's the problem.
Middle ground option, back when turbos were less common.
That said a V6 in a hot hatch is a spicy old option.
case in point, VW Golf R32.
Pity they didn't continue the trend. 4T just isn't as cool even if it's faster.
Nice sounding car, shame the Golf R sounds like ass compared to it.
Add to list; Renault Clio V6, Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, Toyota Blade Master G
As much as I hate most vw and the problems that go with it the R32 was one crazy good sounding car!
@battler
I had $1500 V6 Bora, a good commuter
.
My V6 runs as a 4-cylinder under light load. It has more power than a LS1 V8. It gets 1000km to a tank of petrol. It sounds better than a turbodiesel. What's not to like?
Which V6 is that?
The LGX in my Holden Acadia - it's the same as in the ZB Holden Commodore. 3.6L direct injection V6.
Slightly more power but way less torque.
1000km to a tank? Only on the freeway. Diesel will still get you much further with the same sized tank.
Good engine, pity the Acadia didn't sell very well.
@JimB: Slightly more, by around 2% and have to wring it's neck to get it
Doesn't really matter when moving 2 tonne empty
.
I guess because come people decided they wanted something in between a 4 and an 8?
Any commentary on the various other cylinder configurations/capacities available?
What is the point of a V8, when you can get V12's?
Or… perhaps a V6 might be 'just right' in some people's circumstances.
296GTB does not like your poll options.
4.0 flat 6 Metzger I'd take any day (obviously not a v)
A flat 6 is just a very obtuse angle V ;)
No a flat 6 has to be a boxer to be balanced, not a 180 deg V.
You might be thinking of a flat 12. A flat 12 is a 180 deg V12, in fact any angle V12 is perfectly balanced sine its made of 2 I6's which are already perfectly balanced.
You're absolutely right, I was thinking of a flat 12. I was watching a video about the Ferrari 1512 the other day!
@csimpson: ahh yes like the 512BB, the boxer that isn't actually a boxer!
Since you mentioned it, Subaru did actually make a flat 12 boxer for F1. It was a total waste of time. There is no advantage to a boxer V12 and several major disadvantages.
Because ‘Murica and their inability to understand i4T and passenger diesel engines. They love the ‘lazy power’ of a V6 and prefer ‘gas’ over diesel.
What kind of question is this?
It (V6) is for people that don't want something too small (V4) but don't want something too big (V8).
It's a ridiculous question lmao
It's a more reliable solution than a 2.0L turbocharged engine that has turbo lag and lacks the initial torque that a V6 would provide.
Everything in a car is a compromise. In order of your questions:
Maybe they are a bigger car but not too big, i.e. a Santa Fe or Kluger.: The size of the car is mostly unrelated to the size of the engine. Larger cars need larger engines to avoid having too little power / torque given the weight but small cars have still been manufactured with a V8. The Shelby Cobra is a prime example of this - a really small car with a massive engine. On the other side is last year's Ford Everest which came with a four cylinder diesel twin-turbo.
Do not have the economy of a 4 cylinder / Do not have the power of a V8: They have worse economy than a four cylinder but better than an eight cylinder. They also have more power / torque than a four cylinder and less than an eight cylinder. It's just a trade-off.
Do not have the long distance ability of diesels.: This is a petrol consideration, not the size of the engine. GM makes a six cylinder turbo-charged diesel for the Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, and Escalade. This, naturally, has worse fuel economy than the four cylinder but also offers more power / torque.
From a packaging / stability perspective, a six cylinder also had a few advantages in dampening vibration due to the time distribution of ignition. Not a huge factor through the 2000s but it was a consideration in the 70s to 90s. In general, a six cylinder offered a nice balance between fuel economy and power generation at a low cost (i.e. with natural aspiration) given Australian driving conditions. They were less popular in Europe due to a far greater urban landscape / a need for smaller cars and in the US where large cars with larger engines were common.
where are the flat 6 boys?
MCM represent (scratches turntables)
Bargain
.
What a weird question
There are many advantages and disadvantages with every engine configuration.
V6 typically hits the mid point for a lot of applications
dont bring logic to this….
Well if it's not a performance car (i use that term lightly) then it's a 6 cylinder so that it can haul the weight of the vehicle, hence you see them in utes and SUVs. Power to weight ratio.
Ecotech FTW.
One of the engine with way too many flaws. Took so many iterations to try and fix fundamental mistakes.
HEY.
What about a T5?
A V6 is extremely important to the little boys who want to prove to the big boys that they're grown
VE commode with a 3L V6. Should have bought the V8
Have a V8 Nissan and love it.
So yeah - I see your point.
BEVs are coming to save us from these dilemmas…👍
Putting aside the electric car market the biggest shift away from the mainstream 6 cylinder engines has actually been the move towards smaller more efficient 4 cylinder Turbo engines (like the 1.6L now available in the Santa Fe). Where power is not that important due to weight then NA 4 cylinder engine are sufficient enough.
Turbo engines have come a long way and are much more reliable than they used to be and fuel economy is much more important to buyers than it was even 10 years ago.
OP is right. Should’ve stuck with 3 cylinder 2 stroke
Why not the best of all worlds.
Great power, fuel economy and torque.
Love my v6 turbo diesel!
There is no point in V6, or V8, or V12, unless you still fall for the old fad of enjoying noise and air pollution (usually perpetuated and glorified by old Hollywood flicks, linking to masculinity boosting, "getting chicks with my car", revving, burning rubber, one hand on wheel, arm outside, etc. ).
In reality, my measly mass-produced $100k electric (480bhp, instant torque and 3.3s to 100) can't rev or make excessive noise, but is quicker than majority of V8 and V12 supercars, heaps of fun on track, and I mostly drive it for free, topping up from rooftop solar (no, I don't wait for chargers and didn't have any trouble charging on my roadtrips across east coast). My maintenance is wheels, windshield wiper fluid and cabin filters. I can go 0-max-0 all day long and the car doesn't require any special treatment, no turbo spooling, no oils to replace, no spark plugs, transmissions to be gentle with, no belts/chains that can pop, no radiators or overheating danger. I've had all kinds of fossil sports cars (mostly Germans) in the past, and I regret nothing, miss nothing (esp. the maintenance and having to baby the fragile ICE engines+transmissions)… I'm not a "car person", but I'm experiencing the peak automotive enjoyment right now 🤷♂️
I'm not a "car person"
you could just lead with that
Oh boy. Lots to unpack here. I have some questions.
It sounds like you have a Model 3 Performance or an EV6 GT, but feel free to correct me.
Specifically - you've taken your electric car on track then, have you? Which one? For how long? How'd the tyres like it?
And, specifically, you can go 0-max-0 all day long, can you? You've done that then? How'd the battery like it?
And just some thoughts… You're not a "car person", I know, but you seem to know just enough to be confidently incorrect. What you think is the "old fad" of internal combustion engines will be still around after you and I are long since in the ground. There are many applications that cannot be replaced by battery storage and induction motors.
You seem to be making a moral comparison between your electric car and everyone else's non-electric car. This is silly. You are not special for buying something. You do not enjoy a moral high ground except in your own head. I get that you are excited to boast about your quick acceleration, but you do not understand that there is more to a car (whether it's ICE or EV) than what you perceive.
Also very glad to hear you drive your car for free after spending $100k. A true OzBargain savant! Peak automotive enjoyment 👌👌
Specifically - you've taken your electric car on track then, have you? Which one? For how long? How'd the tyres like it?
Sydney Motorsport Park is a cool one. Are you asking about how car tyres wear out on a track day? Google is your friend for basics.
And, specifically, you can go 0-max-0 all day long, can you? You've done that then? How'd the battery like it?
The battery in track mode, when you hammer it for longer time, will heat up and show in orange on the display, but I never managed to overheat it. The stock brakes are soft and overheat too quickly, but there's a few good after-market options.
If you want to see how it feels, try googling "nordschleife model 3", there's a few good youtoube dashcams from better drivers than me.
And just some thoughts… You're not a "car person", I know, but you seem to know just enough to be confidently incorrect.
Incorrect about what exactly?
What you think is the "old fad" of internal combustion engines will be still around after you and I are long since in the ground. There are many applications that cannot be replaced by battery storage and induction motors.
The OP is asking about cars, not construction vehicles. Can't come up with argument so you're changing topic?
(but since you're asking, commercial and heavy transport is going through accelerated electrification similar to light transport)
You seem to be making a moral comparison between your electric car and everyone else's non-electric car.
Which sentence did imply that?
This is silly. You are not special for buying something. You do not enjoy a moral high ground except in your own head. I get that you are excited to boast about your quick acceleration, but you do not understand that
Oh my, you're seriously butt-hurt, but I don't think I can take the credit here. I've switched to EV, mentioned how it's better than V8, V6 and other fossil cars that I had in the past, and you're whinging about high ground?
You know we're just talking about inanimate things, cars. Consider chilling out and getting off your "moral high ground" horse once in a while.
there is more to a car (whether it's ICE or EV) than what you perceive.
You're right.
There's also efficiency, passive safety, active safety, running costs, maintenance costs, infotainment, compatibility with other tech, looks, spouse's approval, and several more. (coincidentally most of the other criteria also favour EVs, than's for mentioning that)
I was focusing on acceleration and cost because that's how OP framed it, and how most people answer.
Also very glad to hear you drive your car for free after spending $100k. A true OzBargain savant! Peak automotive enjoyment 👌👌
Thank you. Yeah, it's quite awesome! Best $100k I've spent on a car … wish they were cheaper though…
I can go 0-max-0 all day long
I'm pretty sure you don't drive a Taycan so stop talking BS
Surprisingly the polestar performance model handles quite well for what it is.
Tesla on the other hand had body roll like a rocking boat full of kids. Anyone that says it handles have not driven a proper car.
I mostly drive it for free, topping up from rooftop solar
How is that free? Firstly if you exported the power you would get paid and secondly it's not free to install a solar system.
Sure it's cheaper than petrol, but it's not free.
didn't have any trouble charging on my roadtrips across east coast)
Try leaving the Bruce Highway and driving around inland Qld and then you'll see how sparse chargers are, assuming you're car doesn't fall apart on the atrocious roads first.
V6 engines have a great reputation for power and reliability but it all comes down to what you use it for. If your doing a lot of towing your not going to use a small 4 cylinder petrol engine are you. A v8 will guzzle fuel if your got a heavy right foot or do a lot of city driving. Electric has great potential once they actually design cars that the majority of people actually want and with the infrastructure and range needed but that will be a decade away maybe.
Kia Carnival V6 here, it's a big car designed to carry 8 people plus luggage, a 4 cylinder wouldn't be enough and there's no need for a V8. It's not fuel efficient but my choice was the Petrol V6 with 200kw or Diesel I4 with plenty of torque, though it gets used 95% for groceries and school runs, never on a freeway so probably not good to get a diesel.
the diesel would be $2000 more in purchase price and considering all city driving, current fuel prices and driving 10000km p.a. you would be able to make that $2000 in fuel savings with the diesel within 3 years so the diesel would of been the better option for you over the V6 petrol
That's true but there's the worry of the DPF, plus where I am Petrol is about 40c cheaper than Diesel for some reason (benefits of living near a Costco I guess).
They got DPF switches where you can press and it'll burn the soot off at high revs rather than having to take it on the highway
Ya that is odd .. 91 vs diesel should be around 22c difference
Diesel is easier to make but cost more because of taxes
But the diesel is probably horrid to drive in comparison.
Probably slower take off but if you are driving a minivan you're not out to win any races
Having driven both the diesel Carnival is actually better, power is more usable and has a lot more torque. V6 is faster off the line but doesn't do much at higher speeds when you put your foot down other than make a lot of noise
No matter how fast your car is the max speed limit is only 100-110kph so enjoy driving 🤣😷
130 km/h is the highest speed limit within Australia actually
Not everyone's cup of chai, but he makes some good points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYARuoa_xvg
V6's have been made largely irrelevant by turbo 4 technology.
In the 70s/80s/90s
4cyl = eco option
V6 = mid range grunt
V8 = sports/power option
Turbo 4s are now good enough to be the mid range grunt option, and in some cases the eco option - Although even small capacity 3cyl turbos seem to be becoming the eco option.
4 cyl engines have exactly zero cylinder overlap so they can never have smooth power delivery. That means they can never be as smooth as an engine with just one more cylinder. Turbo I5 is the true replacement for power and smoothness with economy.
Technically correct but also pointless - The average punter in their Camry doesn't care.
You're adding size, complexity, higher part count, cost, weight all for more smoothness? Maybe also better sound and more power, but sound doesn't matter and 4cyls already deliver all the power your Camry needs.
Besides, if you really want to get technical, there are issues with i5s, i6s are better and v12s better still - Should we be putting V12s in everything?
V12 is pointless since its 2x I6 and I6 is already balanced with decent overlap. Maybe V5 is the way to go.
@stumo: Pretty sure Honda did a V5 two-stroke GP bike a while back. If it was viable, they'd all be doing it.
I4 bike engines are among the smoothest, more so than V2/4 but possibly not H4/6.
But then boxers have that magical combo of low torque + high consumption compared to same capacity inline engines wave to Subi owners.
Still, that low centre-of-gravity must surely be worth the pain. Nearly forgot the spark plug access !
@Speckled Jim: VW also did a narrow angle V5 for Golfs and Passats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VR5_engine
Shorter than a I5, but very similar characteristics.
It doesn't matter what configuration a 4 cyl has, it can never deliver smooth power. Because each power stroke occurs separately. It can be perfectly balanced like a boxer 4 so it can idle smooth AF, but as soon as it has to deliver real power its all over.
My partner is not a car person, he bought a 2nd hand V6 and holy moly does it eat fuel. Many regrets are had.
Sounds like your partner is also not a research person. Fuel consumption on V6's is very well documented on the internet.
What car?
Torque
V6 Engine is a perfect combination of both worlds (Power & Economy) OP :)
What's the point of a [V]6 cylinder engine compared to a 4 or 8? Pretty effing obvious, isn't it? Better economy than an 8, and more power than a 4.
AU falcon……
Better than a Porsche.
Inline
Nice.
No idea, I can only afford an I4, and Oz road rules/speeds you only need an I4. When our overlords reduce local speeds to 30km/h we can use electric bikes.
why? power when you need it, it also cruises at a much lower rpm so its good for highway driving, newer cars now are smaller engines and the gearbox has more gears to accommodate the low torque
Typical tigers fan. 6 cylinder engines have better power than il4 and better fuel economy than V8.
Does it ever occur to you that some people might prefer it for those reasons?
The steering wheel.
You point a V6 car with the steering wheel.
Do not have the economy of a 4 cylinder
But it has more power than a 4 cyclinder
Do not have the power of a V8
But it is more fuel economical than a V8
I am in my 40s and recently bought a Stinger V6 turbo. Never had performance car and wanted one. Maybe mid life crises or was influence by the 90s car culture or maybe the realisation this is the last opportunity before EV takes over the market.
Previous car was Camry, Account V6, Lexus IS250 and Nissan X-Trail (Still driving). The V6 turbo was a welcome change.
You can use cars to drive places!
I'll take a 2 cylinder car, a Mazda RX7
Or a V8, I don't care about the petrol consumption cost.
I mean thats a 0 cylinder, but I get your point
F1 is the reason.
why do people buy M size pizzas? It's more expensive than a L but smaller in size than a S.
lol
200kW lightweight coupé goes quick
I guess when cars were made 4 cylinder cars were a bit underpowered to move those big o'l heavy cars and fuel wasn't so expensive so they chucked in v6's.
Just a guess though.
I own a straight 6, not a V6. Can you amend your poll?
Is it an AU 🤩
I owned a V6 Toyota Aurion. I still hate myself for selling it so many years ago but we had two cars and we couldn't afford two cars. We kept the family friendly car and got rid of my love.
There was "some" fuel economy impact but I didn't consider it alot. our 2.0l gives me 10.56KMs per L of 91 (latest average based on ~ 150 refill records). The V6 used to give me 8.16KMs per L of 91 (average based on 37 refill records). I use Fuel Manager app.
yeah that Toyota 6cyl 2gr-fe is not bad in fuel and performs really well. It's also quite reliable.
this is by far, by FAR one of the most inane threads ever and a reason why i never really ever respect this place or say….whirlpool automotive
OP seems to think "V6" is a monolith
there are good V6s, there are bad V6s…. is there a point to the VR38 in the R35? of course there is
is there a point to the GM3800 Ecotec V6 in the Commodore??? of course there is… its one of Ward's greatest engines of all time
there are good engines, bad engines, indifferent engines… the fact they are 4 or 6 or v8 is LARGELY irrelevant
i do not like 4 cylinders as a rule but I do recognise the 4A-GE. the 3S-GE, the 4G63 as being among the best there has ever been….
there are bad V8s… the 4.2 Holden is one but LARGELY v8s has heaps of character… the M156, the LSX, the 351 Cleveland… these engines are legend
if you dont know what these numbers mean then this discussion isnt for you
I worked with a guy who said to me "if I had the money I would have a fleet of cars that were all powered by the M156"
and i agree with him
i think V6s have largely had a bad rep. There arent many V6s I care about… I'm a V8 man when it comes down to it.
BUT one of the greatest cars of all time with the greatest engines of all time is the Alfa Guilia QF.
What can one say about a 500hp 1,500kg rwd sport sedan. If I had the money, I would. This car doesnt need a V8. Its perfect as it is. It makes no excuses for being a V6.
Is it 100% reliable??? Who the PHUQ cares… if you have the money you enjoy the hell out of what it is.
Welcome to the internet. It's what happens when you bring normies into the discussion.
Just like Smurfs there are more normies than enthusiast around so what happens is the lies or half-truths get repeated enough that it becomes the status quo.
People screaming about fuel economy difference of 20% are probably the same people who enjoy iPhones, Netflix subscriptions and $6 small daily coffees. It's like the concept that someone who can find interest and joy in culture, vision and differences can't exist unless some shill in a turtle neck tells them so.
Unless it's a sports car, forget the V6 and turbo 4, hybrids are the way to go now.