Large Australian Employer (10,000+ Employees) Won't Accept Digital Medical Certs from Today Onwards

jimbobaus on 13/01/2023 - 21:26
Last edited 14/01/2023 - 09:44 by 1 other user

So, my nephew works for a large Aussie company which has stores all over Australia and has over 10K employees. Today he was given a letter that had both the company and the union, who represents the staff in this company, logo on it. The letter was not personalised but clearly sent to every employee via their store management it reads as follows:

Dear Employee,

We are writing to advise you of a change to how we will handle sick leave and medical certificates from today.

A growing number of stores have expressed concern at the increased preveleance of digital medical certificates from online servcies such as updoc and qoctor among others. These servcies do not require you to attend a consulattion and simply charge you to provide a medical certificate.

Blah Blah (stay home when sick…. other people dont want to get sick)

So due to the above reasons, effective from today all medical certificates must be hand signed by a doctor, this would always be the case when you attend an appointment at a doctors surgery. Online and digital medical certificates will not be accepted as support for your sick leave claim.

blah blah (union is on board blah blah)

Signed Management

Interested to hear some opinions on whether this is the way most companies might be headed or just interested to get some opinions on what the OzBargain community thinks of the situation.

Education & Work

Comments

  • MS Paint on 13/01/2023 - 21:30
    +2

    My employer is like this. Has been for the last 6 months.

  • elgrande on 13/01/2023 - 21:35
    +29

    Just bring in a digital exemption letter..

    • Chandler on 16/01/2023 - 09:01
      +1

      Yeah that's what I was thinking.

      The recent times I've been sick and needed a certificate, the doctor didn't want me physically present either so did a telephone consult. Got a certficate as usual.

      I'm curious if the issue in OP's case is $$ for a certificate services or easily modifiable certficates (no signature = printed direct to PDF, not scanned = easy to doctor/edit)

  • cookie2 on 13/01/2023 - 21:37
    +60

    Disgusting. Up to you how you choose to see a private health care professional to manage your health. I love that they don't just say "we want you to have to go out of your way to get a certificate". They obviously don't like stat decs either then I'd say. Union should not be on board with this but obviously no backbone.

    • paddyo on 13/01/2023 - 21:40
      +27

      But that's just the point, they are NOT 'seeing' anyone, let alone a Private Health Care Professional.

      • cookie2 on 13/01/2023 - 22:11
        +15

        The word seeing should be taken as "attending to, conversing with", not the physical act of being within a 1 mtr radius. Same way ppl will say of a new romantic relationship "I'm seeing someone" aka dating someone.
        I just think that paid leave is an entitlement, we shouldn't have to be jumping through further hoops to get it, or narrower hoops I guess. There's no good intention from that, just squeezing the staff for a little bit more of them.

        • paddyo on 14/01/2023 - 22:08
          +14

          Paid Leave is not the same as Personal Leave. Paid leave is also known as Annual Leave and is usually 4 weeks plus public holidays. Personal Leave includes Sick Leave, Carers Leave, Compassionate Leave etc. If an Employer has gone down the route of ensuring Personal Leave is genuine (noting a lot of companies allow you to self certify for 24/48 hours) then there has to have been incidents where an Online Medical Certificate (with no seeing/attending/consulting of any qualified medical person is involved) has been shown to be fraudulent. This can be assumed because even the Union has acknowledged the issue and supported this approach so that genuine sick leave can be acknowledged and supported.

          • Harold Halfprice on 15/01/2023 - 19:12
            +17

            @paddyo: It's difficult to go see a GP these days - assuming you can even see the GP on the same day, you've either got long wait times if you're lucky enough to have access to a bulk billing GP or you have to pay out of your pocket. Some people have to wait days for an appointment.

            And what are you paying for? Absolutely nothing other than them printing off a medical certificate that says you weren't feeling well and didn't go to work.

            If you have a serious illness, a GP can look into it and provide advice/medication/assistance - but if you've got something as simple as a cold or a migraine, an upset stomach and you don't feel well enough to work it's a waste of everyone's time to get a medical certificate. The GP isn't there to prove or disprove that you had a migraine.

            • aboogee on 15/01/2023 - 19:56

              @Harold Halfprice: Normally med certs are required when it’s longer than 1-2 days. If you are sick for longer than that then you would need to see a doc anyway.

              I do see a need for this, but fine if people wants it to be balanced. There are obviously people abusing sickie which has necessitated that.

              • Harold Halfprice on 15/01/2023 - 20:14
                +7

                @aboogee:

                There are obviously people abusing sickie which has necessitated that

                How is that obvious? There's 0 information presented that provides any insight into why the business in question has enacted this policy.

                They could just as easily want to make it inconvenient for staff to take their sick leave. You think they care if you come into work with a headache? As long as you're not contagious and infecting other staff they want you to work.

              • radradrobotank on 16/01/2023 - 01:46
                +3

                @aboogee: What if you have a positive RAT test? Flu and covid normally don't require a doctors visit even if they do turn you into a contagious mess for more than 3 days. Also I highly doubt doctors appreciate consults with contagious flu and covid patients when it is obvious they could self manage at home.

              • johndoh89 on 16/01/2023 - 21:44
                +2

                @aboogee: Personal leave should be just that, personal. It should be there to take into account that there are things other than work and you're given an allowance to accomodate these things. It is your employers responsibility to provide these and you shouldn't be penalised regardless of why you took them.

                If you waste them and have to take LWOP or are denied further leave, then that's your problem. If taking further leave impacts on your work, then your employer can make a decision about whether or not you're suitable for the job.

              • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 21:55
                +1

                @aboogee: Not the case legendary-noob, many many employers require certificate for 1 day if a Monday or Friday…. and maybe you have some super-immune system but at least half of the last dozen times I got sick with a cold it was longer than 2 days (clearly coronavirus advice was contagious at least 5 days) and GP will do nothing for that but take my money to write out a certificate - waste of medical resources, my money to pay for the appointment, medicare money and lack of trust ….

              • Grunntt on 17/01/2023 - 10:42
                +1

                @aboogee:

                There are obviously people abusing sickie which has necessitated that.

                What exactly is 'abusing' sickie?

                If the contract allows for a specific number of personal days why is there a need to supply a certificate?
                If you take more than your contract allows then you don't get paid for those.
                How is it possible to abuse something that is a contracted 'right'?

                If you are sick for longer than that then you would need to see a doc anyway.

                Is there no medical issue that you can think of that takes more than a day or two that does not need you to attend a medical centre?
                Maybe enquire of a female friend or relative if a heavy/painful period needs medical attention or do they know what needs to be done.

                • trapper on 20/01/2023 - 20:26

                  @Grunntt:

                  What exactly is 'abusing' sickie?

                  Taking a sickie when you're not sick… ??

                  • Grunntt on 22/01/2023 - 14:35
                    -1

                    @trapper:

                    Taking a sickie when you're not sick… ??

                    Clearly you didn't bother reading the rest of my post before you made this indepth and illuminating comment.

            • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 21:53

              @Harold Halfprice: @Harold Halfprice - 100%

          • Morphio25 on 16/01/2023 - 14:53
            +4

            @paddyo: Some idiot at a previous company I worked at got fired for producing fraudulent sick certificates, so it is definitely something that happens.

            By the same token though, by enforcing a policy like this the employer is just clogging up local GP's or even hospitals (if someone can't get in to see a GP) just to get a piece of paper so they can be paid for the day.

          • 811b11e8 on 16/01/2023 - 15:11
            +5

            @paddyo: You're assuming it's a legitimate employee union. I remember working for a large retail employer and looking into my union to find out it was run by ultra-conservative nut jobs and sponsored by employers so employees wouldn't join a real union focused on employees.

            I'd bet the union in question here is probably the SDA.

        • Powlie85 on 16/01/2023 - 11:07
          -2

          They're not cancelling sick leave - they're simply saying you need to see an actual doctor.

          • zathras on 16/01/2023 - 12:30
            +2

            @Powlie85: But most doctors don't want COVID positive people attending their clinic in person.
            I guess this company will just prefer COVID spreading and taking out more employees.
            I hope its not a retail facing company …. if so, please name them @jimbobaus so we can avoid COVID.

            • bio on 16/01/2023 - 15:07

              @zathras: I guess the company still accepts telehealth appointments. They are only excluding shady services such as Qoctor and Updoc.

              • zathras on 16/01/2023 - 18:22
                +1

                @bio: Are they shady though? It appears like those online services employ registered doctors who write the medical certificates. Or are you saying that those services issue medical certificates without a doctors consultation? If a registered doctor issues an official medical certificate, why should an employer get to dictate which doctor an employee should (or should not) consult with?

                I have never used those services, but if they are issuing certificates without consultations I would expect the government would shut them down.

                • Powlie85 on 16/01/2023 - 21:57

                  @zathras: Go to updoc them wait for their retargeting ads. Their messaging is all about medical certificates - no mention of treatment etc….

                • bio on 17/01/2023 - 08:53

                  @zathras: I have no idea, just pointing out that they might still accept "normal" telehealth certificates. I don't think these services are better or worse. See my other comment.

            • typhoonadventure on 18/01/2023 - 21:02
              -1

              @zathras: its coles. I saw the email from some friends that work there. But you can have pride and gender confirmation surgery leave with no question.

              The same company that was peddling mental health, said mate got touted in a bunch of pride articles they did for their we're here supporting LGBT+ but when he had a meltdown at work after being abused by a woman when he was in a real manic point and had a breakdown, the only reason he didn't get fired was for being gay and being in their promo material.

              Which didn't make things any easy on his mental health as he knew they really didn't care about him.

              Then he finds out this week his store is losing six checkouts, to replace them with 20 self serves. Oh it won't affect anyones hours….
              All of a sudden he's had his hours cut to his bare contract level despite the store struggling to fill amount of staff required and having horrendous stock shortages.

              This is the same company that told him and other mates as soon as our state removed restrictions on covid that they told all their staff that if they didn't have any leave left to still come in even if they had covid.

              Have been told woolworths are doing the same.

          • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 21:57
            +1

            @Powlie85: My doctor requires telehealth if you have any sort of cold / flu / rona symptoms - and bills you for doing stuff-all to write out a piece of paper

      • Jono05 on 15/01/2023 - 15:12
        -3

        This!

      • DrScavenger on 15/01/2023 - 21:28
        +2

        It shouldn't matter if you actually go to a GP or video chat with them. It's much cheaper too

      • trapper on 20/01/2023 - 20:21

        But that's just the point, they are NOT 'seeing' anyone, let alone a Private Health Care Professional.

        No doctor is going to deny you a medical certificate if you tell them you aren't feeling well enough to work.

        So it doesn't make a difference anyway.

    • gromit on 15/01/2023 - 07:55
      +5

      well I think if they were actually seeing a private health care professional you would have a point, the issue is they are getting the certificate without seeing one.

      • Chandler on 16/01/2023 - 09:07
        +2

        Most people these days would be getting certificates without seeing the doctor. I know the time's I've been sick I've generally been consulted via phone as the doctor's don't want you in the clinic. This would vary by doctor/clinic, but.

        In OP's case, all they've asked for is a wet-signed certificate rather than an unsigned one that staff had been getting from these online certificate services. I dare say some people have figured out how to doctor the unsigned ones, and the company is trying to stamp that out whilst not preventing actually sick staff from having paid leave.

      • I like freestuff on 16/01/2023 - 10:22
        +3

        With Qoctor you do a video chat and a doctor asks a few questions. Before the chat you answer some questions online to save time.

        Don’t see the difference between doing it this way and waiting 5 hours while coughing your lungs up in a waiting room to be asked the same questions.

        • gromit on 16/01/2023 - 10:46

          just guessing but they are probably throwing the baby out with the bath water. Too many digital services offering certificates with no actual real consultation.

    • Flying Ace on 15/01/2023 - 11:24
      +15

      Probably the SDA.

    • twig on 15/01/2023 - 15:42
      +11

      Name and shame that union. They dont deserve your membership fees

    • Chandler on 16/01/2023 - 09:02
      +2

      I'd say most places would be happy to get a stat dec - I don't think many people would be willing to fraudulently sign a stat dec, as there's some pretty hefty consequences there vs just getting a dodgy medical certificate.

      • cookie2 on 16/01/2023 - 13:03

        All workplaces I've been in have either frowned upon stat decs or specifically mentioned them not being accepted. Anyway FWA need to get stat decs more clearly included within the national standards so workplaces can't undermine the allowance that there's supposed to be in theory for stat decs.

        • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 21:51
          +1

          Stat Decs are specifically mentioned on FWA website

    • macrocephalic on 16/01/2023 - 11:16
      +7

      The fact that it says "stores" suggests that it's retail, in which case the union is probably SDA - who are completely useless and bought out by the retailers, so they only exist to stop a real union from being formed.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 21:49
      +2

      I don't think a certificate should be required at all.
      It's a waste of medical system resources and these days money (as hardly anyone bulk bills).

      My doctor still prefers you don't come in if you are sick (requires telehealth in fact) and why should you!?
      It's just a damn cold, you feel lousy, stay home - the doctor isn't going to help you with a simple cold virus. It's viral not bacterial so don't need a script or anything…

      It shouldn't be this way but sometimes the best thing to do is show up really sick and be told to go home! They can see you are sick!

      However I avoid getting certificates - I think a stat dec is the better option if something is required. However generally don't - If the employer doesn't trust me to know when I am sick and my word, trust is a two-way street and it's an employee's market still right now….

      I think there should be more trust of employees - yes some will abuse but most won't most of the time.
      They get a max allotted amount of sick leave so its not like its unlimited, and regardless, you can generally tell if it is being abused (as a manager)….
      and as for someone abusing it, that probably won't be that employee's only performance issues.

      Union should not have been on board with this.

      … and what's worse, whichever Colesworth or whatever store this is will now be propagating sickness nationally because more people will come to work to avoid the hassle and cost of an in-person consult for a simple cold

      • trapper on 20/01/2023 - 20:33

        and as for someone abusing it, that probably won't be that employee's only performance issues.

        Bang on.

  • mbck on 13/01/2023 - 21:53
    +32

    Why not just ban certificates from those companies instead? Some clinic digitally sign after telehealth consultation.

    • Dsquall on 16/01/2023 - 07:35
      +5

      As a doctor, totally agree. Essentially just a chat bot that you pay 30 bucks to for not much value.

      Also, totally don’t see the point of med certs at all. We’re all adults, you get 5 days of sick leave a year, taking sick leave after that and you stop getting paid. If an employer can’t navigate around that they’re probably not managing their staffing very well.

      • serpserpserp on 16/01/2023 - 08:56
        +3

        You get 10 days of sick leave a year usually.

      • Harold Halfprice on 16/01/2023 - 10:41
        +4

        10 days per year, and it's cumulative.

        But yes, medical certificates are a waste of everyone's time and money for trivial illness that can be self managed at home. I don't need to see a doctor everytime I get a cold or flu.

        They should only be required for long absences, such as major surgery or illness

      • bio on 16/01/2023 - 15:09
        +6

        True, medical certs are useless. It's not like a GP will know if I'm actually sick or pretending:

        - I have a horrible headache and can't concentrate on work.
        - Sure. Take some Panadol and here is your certificate.

        • jakeh87 on 17/01/2023 - 15:06

          Similarly,

          I need a mental health day - I feel overwhelmed.

          Sure, rest up and here is your certificate.

      • Grunntt on 17/01/2023 - 10:49

        If an employer can’t navigate around that they’re probably not managing their staffing very well.

        The directors of one company that I worked for had the opinion that any manager who did not trust their staff was not suitable to be selecting staff in the first place.
        If you employ someone you don't trust you had just demonstrated your lack of ability in staff selection.

    • Krankite on 17/01/2023 - 08:29

      Because that would open yourself up to a lawsuit from the doctors, and doctors can afford better lawyers than retail employees.

  • Aust on 13/01/2023 - 22:13
    +58

    Hang on, It can take 4-5 days to get in to see my doctor, how will this work then?

      • Loot N Plunder on 13/01/2023 - 22:19
        +42

        Some folk cant simply go to a different doctor if they don't live in suburbia.
        Its a 2 week + wait in my town or over 100km to another doctor.

        • Morien on 14/01/2023 - 02:54

          I'd imagine you probably wouldn't have this particular retail chain in your town, then. And if you did, I'd imagine the local management would know the situation and have different rules.

          • Chandler on 16/01/2023 - 09:09
            +1

            @Morien: Those particular retail chains are likely online services, and thus physical location is meaningless.

          • Harold Halfprice on 16/01/2023 - 10:49
            +4

            @Morien: Some massive assumptions there.

            Aldi has 13k employees, this retail chain has over 10k. Entirely plausible for a chain this size to be in a regional town.

            And if you did, I'd imagine the local management would know the situation and have different rules.

            Lol okay. What about people in the city/suburbs who also have to wait to go see their GP? Lots of doctors won't take on new patients because they're already over capacity.

            You have nothing more than a cold or a headache but instead of resting you need to call up different practices to find one that will see you on the day, waste your time getting there and fork out at a minimum $50 for a piece of paper that says you went and saw a doctor and told them you weren't feeling well.

          • cookie2 on 16/01/2023 - 13:06
            +1

            @Morien: I think you're missing the point. The point is that it's not always practical or feasible.

          • MrFrugalSpend on 16/01/2023 - 22:01

            @Morien: I doubt that, Colesworth are everywhere, medical shortages exist outside basically every capital city

      • BinnyC on 15/01/2023 - 17:33

        Some clinics have started charging like $80 just to register for the first time, ridiculous.

        • infinite on 15/01/2023 - 20:37
          +2

          The standard first consult is $135+ for most private practices & most practices (private or public) aren't even taking on new patients anyway.

    • Benoffie on 13/01/2023 - 22:15
      +3

      Doctors can't back date but they can say, based on your medical condition, they believe you to have been unfit for duties from x to y.

      • macfudd on 14/01/2023 - 20:19
        +3

        I doubt this company would accept that either.

        • knk on 16/01/2023 - 09:37
          +1

          It's not up to them, it's a medical professional giving their opinion.

    • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2023 - 23:08
      +47

      Go to a walk in clinic, wait for hours, catch gastro from another patient.

      • TEER3X on 14/01/2023 - 21:51
        +3

        Reason why I almost never go to the doctors.. that and they always come back with take Panadol or some other useless googable advice.

        • diddy50 on 15/01/2023 - 08:14

          You either weren't actually sick or the GP isn't very good haha

          • IM-Cheap on 15/01/2023 - 20:17
            +8

            @diddy50: You can have a simple cold that last for 3 days for which take cold and flu meds is all the doctor would tell you anyway. Doesn't mean you aren't sick or the doctor isn't good just because the solution is common knowledge and frankly a waste of resources diagnosing and getting cert for.

          • Chandler on 16/01/2023 - 09:59
            +2

            @diddy50: For most day-to-day illnesses, it usually is a case of managing symptoms whilst allowing your body to treat the cause of illness.
            Have lived this the most due to the kids, since (in my experience) they generally avoid giving kids (especially babies) medications unless absolutely necessary.

    • Sammy2000 on 14/01/2023 - 09:37
      +24

      When you are too unwell to go to work and it takes you all day to find a doctor to see you the same day. You need another day off work cause you didn't get a rest.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/01/2023 - 10:02
      +7

      Regional NSW - our local doctors won't even take new patients - 6month waiting list. Next doctors taking appointments is a 1hr drive.

      These idiots keep voting for the nationals who haven't helped them in decades….

    • outlander on 13/01/2023 - 22:58
      +14

      Those are your employers shoes. You have crossed a major boundary by wearing them. Stay where you are and prepare to be arrested for theft, degenerate.

    • GrueHunter on 13/01/2023 - 23:47
      +36

      Because nobody ever chucked a sickie before the Internet

      They never went to the doctor and said "yeah really bad gastro ay, I'm aching all over, yeah thanks for the cert, I reckon the rest of the week will cover it"

      They'll never do this now

      They certainly won't take even longer because if you have to fork over for a cert you're damn well going to make the most of it

      When you treat people like crims they never rise to meet your expectations

      How's that giant brain and all your common sense working out for you

      • ihbh on 14/01/2023 - 08:21

        Leave aside your thought experiments for a sec.

        The companies probably have looked at the data and presented it to the unions to get their support. It might be sth like this:

        • People using online services take X times more sickies than the others.

        Yes, but they might be less healthy, in disadvantaged areas with fewer GPs, etc.

        • Some of these people were working before the rise of these online services, let's check their data - oh, that's interesting, they took the same rate of sickies as everyone else.
        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2023 - 22:10
          +18

          Wtf does this even do besides waste a GP's time? Anyone can just walk in say they're feeling unwell when they're not and get a cert. There is already a shortage of GPs and associated staff with the amount of people walking away from the system. Have an aunt that walked away from a medical reception position not too long ago with the abuse they were copping because of a lack of appointment availability and wait times. Employers who pull shit like this can take their shoes and hove them up their ass.

            • ripesashimi on 15/01/2023 - 00:13
              +5

              @ihbh: So in order to address this 'loophole', it is better to let loose the sick people at work to spread their airborne friends, while not being well enough to actually get any work done?

              Win win for both the employer and employee then.

              • ihbh on 15/01/2023 - 08:00
                +3

                @ripesashimi: No, the way to address the "loophole" is to not require med certs. Just let people take sick days off as they see fit.

                Eventually these big employers will become small employers…

            • trapper on 20/01/2023 - 20:37

              @ihbh:

              Many GPs I know won't provide them for someone just saying they are feeling unwell. Yep, so people will go GP shopping and then say 2% of GP's might provide 30% of certificates, which then provide the data for situations like this.

              That is such a load of crap.

              You seriously think a GP is going to tell a patient 'sorry I don't believe you, off to work' haha man, you are dreaming…

        • Serapis on 15/01/2023 - 00:48
          +4

          The companies probably have looked at the data and presented it to the unions to get their support.

          This is highly highly unlikely, i would verify with the union as well. This is likely some decision made by senior management in HR.

        • derrida derider on 15/01/2023 - 21:57
          +1

          Yep, the same sort of "analysis" that contends people must be abusing the system because 20% of sickies are taken on a Monday …

          • Vancomycin 1000mg on 15/01/2023 - 23:43
            +2

            @derrida derider: Yet most of the heart attack occurs on Monday.https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-004-6594-4

            F!#k the big companies. Protect your right.

        • GrueHunter on 17/01/2023 - 10:32

          "Let's leave aside your description of what actually happened and replace that with not one but two sets of completely imaginary statistics"

          ok

    • ceroau on 15/01/2023 - 17:36
      +2

      How is it fraud? If you go to any respectable GP and ask for a medical certificate they will give it to you. You don't need a "valid" reason to take personal leave. It is called PERSONAL leave, you take leave for personal reasons. Yes like someone being sick with the FLU but you can take it for many reasons. Furthermore "sick" is not limited to something like the flu, it could any number of ailments, it can be physical or mental which is why any respectable GP will pretty much give anyone a medical certificate if they ask. "Sick" can be something as simple as not enough sleep the night before, it is designed to give people a break and it there to protect the employer as much as the employee.(it dumbfounds me that corporation really want to try and force people to work when they don't want to work, nothing good or productive comes from it)

      A Corporation doesn't get to dictate what is a valid reason for personal leave or what quantifies as sick, they're not medical professionals, they're not the Government. Yes corrupt little (profanity) have maybe worked in requirements in how employees utilize their personal leave which necessitate a whole heap of bullshit like needing a medical certificate to accompany personal leave under certain conditions but it doesn't change that don't get to decide what is a valid reason, so any legally valid medical certificate should be treated as a valid. These services aren't out there to help be commit fraud, they're providing a good service for the community by ensuring the already over extended health system isn't being further over extended on appeasing bullshit power hungry (profanity) who force their employees to go get a certificate cause they needed the day off for whatever god damn PERSONAL reason they chose.

      If you take nothing else away from this comment. Take this. Personal leave is a right, not a privilege and if your employer tries to threaten that right you should do whatever you can (Unfortunately most people can't do (profanity) all) to stop them from taking that right away.

      That's common sense.

  • lingkohuang on 13/01/2023 - 22:43
    +2

    yeah…goverment needs to do something with those online "services", I even saw some pharmacies in WA putting up a big sign on a busy road saying "Medical Certificate $25"

    • buckethat on 13/01/2023 - 23:17
      -8

      Wow really..? They should have their licenses revoked or whatever is the equivalent.

      • Blokeinhisundies on 13/01/2023 - 23:31
        +34

        For what? You can get a medical certificate from a whole list of practitioners and they are allowed to charge for it. Just becuase they advertise a service doesn't make it illegal.

        Any registered health practitioner can give you a certificate and the list is full of quacks like osteopaths and chiropractors.

        Pharmacists
        Osteopaths
        Chiropractors
        Dentists
        Nurses
        Occupational therapists
        Physiotherapists
        Podiatrists
        Psychologists
        Optometrists

        You don't even need a medical certificate, just do a statutory declaration. It is considered suitable evidence as well.

  • SlowCarSlow on 13/01/2023 - 23:00
    +45

    Of course people will use online medical certificate options compared to going and seeing a GP. It is more convenient and takes less time. It's exactly what these services are made for as well.

    If you are having a medical issue such as a cold, diarrhea, or some other short term issue that in general resolves itself, wasting a GP's already overloaded time seems so stupid.

    I wonder what the benefit of this is for the corporate structure itself? Isn't sick leave itself a limited amount based off an employee's hours, so the company itself isn't losing money here right? It's not some bottomless fund.

    • Nebargains on 15/01/2023 - 10:44
      -8

      The problem is people taking sickies. If they have a policy that requires a medical certificate and you can simply buy one without even speaking to a medical professional then it is just going to get abused by people buying a day off.

      • rosco385 on 15/01/2023 - 16:53
        +16

        The fact you denigrate people "taking sickies" is half the problem. Nobody has "sick leave" anymore, it's referred to as "personal leave" in all legal documents (awards, NES, EBAs) because workers can take it for any reason, including just wanting a day off because they feel run down or stressed.

        Personal leave is an entitlement, not something nice an employer does for you if you jump through every hoop they have. It's employers putting roadblocks in front of workers who want to take their own personal leave that deserve to be shamed, not workers who take it.

      • Tleyx on 15/01/2023 - 18:38
        +1

        The problem is people are perceived as just having sickies where is the evidence that people are not sock

    • shruglord on 15/01/2023 - 10:55
      +12

      It also costs less money. Less and less GP's are bulk billing so you'll have to pay for your consult on top of the fact that you're already likely a casual retail worker.

      Medical certificates are the biggest con employers place on employees. Absolutely archaic practice in todays day and age. If you give personal days, just accept people will take them if they're sick. You'll be surprised how many people don't actually use their sick days because believe it or not, a good workplace means people want to come to work. Besides ,if they exhaust their sick leave and are sick, then they don't get paid for it. It's pretty simple.

      Gross. Name and shame.

      • derrida derider on 15/01/2023 - 22:02
        +2

        Yep. If you are not willing to give people their personal leave entitlements during the year there is a simple solution - pay the casual loading (typically 15-25%), designed to compensate employees for exactly that.

        Of course the sort of employers who think loyalty is strictly a one-way street are also the ones who will be groaning "no-one wants to work these days" and "I can't find good workers".

  • donkcat on 13/01/2023 - 23:04
    +47

    So a healthcare system already strained, availability of GPs stretched, ED departments at capacity due to people either unable to afford or find a GP and then you have employers like this insisting that you get (probably) infectious) to the clinic (strain clinics further) so they can be assured you’re having a miserable day off when resting at home was prob the best recovery to get you back to work sooner.

    • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2023 - 23:09
      +5

      Unless you work in porn then an ED department probably wouldn't be appropriate for a sick note anyway.

      • ceroau on 15/01/2023 - 17:39
        -4

        I am curious.

        Do you just say this shit to try and troll people on the internet? like is that your thing? your hobby if you will or do you actually believe your own nonsense that you type in these threads?

        • buckster on 16/01/2023 - 11:27
          +2

          Erectile dysfunction is no laughing matter

  • AdosHouse on 13/01/2023 - 23:17
    +42

    I'd love to see the business try and penalise a worker for providing a legal medical certificate. Fair Work would have a field day.

    • Kangal on 16/01/2023 - 01:10
      +2

      This.
      Sometimes you just have call people up on their BS. Sure your direct manager might be placed in a tough spot, but that's why they get paid much more than you.

      PS: I don't recommend this (causing friction / burning bridges) if it impacts your future career/progression. But for a large 10k+ employer I was willing to think that most employees are merely doing it as a job. Unfortunately, with the erosion of our unions, rights, etc etc we are slowly seeing a seepage of the poor work practices that is common in USA.

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