Final Stages of Replacing Gas with All Electric

jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 20:11

Hi all

Hoping someone could provide some insight into the following. We have just had our gas ducted heating replaced with a Fujitsu reverse cycle. We were able to reuse the existing vents and ducting which was a bonus and helped keep the cost lower. The only gas appliances we have left are a 160L hot water storage unit and a 90cm cooktop. On the roof we have a a 2.1KW solar array that was installed back in 2012. To date the inverter has run fine and there have been no issues.

I want to make the final steps to ditch gas and go single fuel. The three items to address are:

  1. Induction cooktop
  2. Heat pump hot water
  3. Upgrade the solar array to somewhere around a 6KW system.

Question is, in what order would be best. Should getting the array upgraded first be of priority or better to get rid of gas completely and then look to do the final step of the solar array?

Located in Melbourne if that makes a difference.

Cheers

Home & Garden Electricity Gas Supply

Comments

  • Switchblade88 on 12/12/2022 - 20:30
    +1

    Induction may require additional pans if your existing ones aren't compatible, which will add some extra cost. Heat pump will be a great investment.

    I'd be getting rid of gas completely first, and then (eventually) upgrading the solar system to something bigger. That also offers you options for batteries as well in the future when they'll hopefully be cheaper.

    • jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 20:40

      Thanks @Switchblade88

      We have had a look at the pans and the bulk of the main ones we use are all induction capable. One or two aren't but that's ok, we can use alternatives as they are mainly just for bulk jam making which is only once or twice a year.

      Cooktop and Hot Water were where I was leaning so good to know at least one thinks the same.

      Any others who have a view would be welcomed.

  • Euphemistic on 12/12/2022 - 20:49
    +3

    Think I’d go solar upgrade first. It’ll start cutting your spark bill immediately and make the induction or heat pump cheaper to run too if you can time them to run when the sun is out. Gas is good because there is no penalty for using during peak hours.

    • jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 20:53

      Fair points. One thing I forgot to add as I forgot was that we have a spa. If I think about that, then I would say a smart option would be to upgrade the solar to try and offset the cost of heating 1250 litres of water.

      The spa is new so well insulated but even so, it costs about an extra $60 a month compared to when we didn't have it.

      • Switchblade88 on 12/12/2022 - 21:01

        In this case, the solar system could potentially be the better initial option - $2 a day in spa heating should be easily offset by solar, then adding the heat pump after will also add to these savings. Stovetop by comparison is such a small amount of either fuel it won't make much ongoing expense difference.

        The balance will also be significantly affected by whichever fuel becomes more expensive over the next couple of years as well. If gas jumps right up then you'd be better off replacing those two items first, but if electricity is more expensive then solar makes much more sense first instead.

        • jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 21:11

          The $1M question, which will become more expensive first. I wonder whether Dan the Man will make announcements about gas being phased out over a certain time in Vic in a similar way to the ACT…..for new builds at least.

          • Euphemistic on 13/12/2022 - 07:01

            @jollster101: Gas will be phased out at some point, but there is talk of price capping or other methods to keep our prices down a bit. Electricity is a bit unknown. Coal is very expensive at the moment but renewables are coming online more and more.

            Either way sticking panels on your roof let’s you control your energy price somewhat.

            How soon are you going to upgrade these items? Is it 12-24months or a 10 year plan? If it’s over a couple of years I don’t think it will really matter which order.

            • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 07:49

              @Euphemistic: In theory we could do it all in the next 6 months. We were planning to move but decided to stay put rather than paying the government a hefty amount of stamp duty for not all that much benefit (itchy feet more than anything else at the time).

              I have reached out to a mob called Marshall Energy to have someone talk through the solar upgrade options. They seem to have had decent feedback based on other posts made on OzB.

  • jv on 12/12/2022 - 21:11
    +1

    Question is, in what order would be best

    I would definitely go Alphabetical…

    • jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 21:16

      Any specific logic to that @jv?

  • 0FoxGiven on 12/12/2022 - 21:26
    -1

    Also make sure you can handle the load from a reverse cycle ducted system, an induction cooktop, a kettle (?), Heat pump and maybe another power intensive appliance running at the same time on a single phase. Maybe invest in a three phase upgrade? That way you can future proof for an EV later, have a larger PV system and don't have to worry about your power tripping due to high load

    • jollster101 on 12/12/2022 - 22:04

      Something I haven't really thought of…….thanks.

      Is 3 phase expensive to upgrade to?

      • resisting the urge on 12/12/2022 - 23:24
        +2

        Don't. 3 phase costs a lot to setup, and makes all your installations more complex (Solar/Batteries/Charging) and so on, and the point is to use less power, not more. Single phase is good to 100A so no chance of needing more than it can provide unless you are trying to AC a lot of house in a short amount of time as well as cooking and charging an EV, etc.

        And the excess EV generation tends to reduce grid consumption less, unless you invest in a fancy inverter that manages each of the phases really well.

        Generally speaking there is no point going 3 phase unless you can fit a lot more than 13.3kw of panels on your roof (as most grid providers allow up to 10kw of PV inverter on each single phase connection)

  • KaTst3R on 12/12/2022 - 22:37

    Induction cooktop

    Uncle Roger: Haiya… why so weak… you pu**y…

    In all seriousness, go for a bigger capacity solar system as possible. During winter (where you will need your reverse air con the most), the total output of the system will be as low as 30%-50% capacity. Your 6kw system wont be enough to run your heating and other stuff.

    • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 07:40

      Thanks for the info.

  • baxter on 12/12/2022 - 23:57
    +2

    We went through this exact process of getting rid of gas last year. We already had 6kW on our roof. The order for us was:

    1. Changed over to 3 phase (about $3000)
    2. Replaced hot water with standard Rheem 300L electric (more on that later) and got a induction cooktop about the same time.
    3. Disconnected gas line (managed with electric oil heaters for the remainder of Sep/Oct).
    4. Got 3 phase ducted reverse cycle to replace our ducted gas (could reuse the vents but needed new ducting)

    Next:

    1. New extension being built which will have another 12kw of solar on it, plus pool being added.
    2. Looking to get an EV next year.

    It's gone really well. Over the 3 month Winter period our electricity bill was $1000 compared to $1950 the year before (which was $1500 gas and $450 electricity) - so it's a big win for us in Winter just from the ducted electric heating!

    We went 3 phase because we are installing a pool which will require a filter and pump running 8 hours a day plus using an electric heat pump to warm the water. We also made all the changes above which increased our electricity usage and we'll be ready for 1 or more EV's in the future. We also bought a standard "old school" electric water heater rather than a heat pump. Couple of reasons. It was 1/3 the price, has a better warranty, and has way less chance of something going wrong. The kicker though was changing the element to 1.8kW instead of the 3.6kW element it came with (costs $40), and getting a timer put on our switchboard ($50) so that the water heater only comes on from 9am to 4pm when the solar is generating power. The rationale is that even on overcast days the system is likely to be producing 1.8kW and so enables us to use more of the solar power we are generating. In fact, the water heater acts like having a battery in that our excess power gets funnelled into it every day, and used every night, but unlike a battery it doesn't degrade. Win win.

    Btw, no-one ever says "geez, I wish I put a smaller solar system on my roof"! So unless you can't fit it, go for at least 10 or even 13kw. You'll appreciate it in Winter when it's not producing all that much but you might be able to turn your ducted heating on for a bit during the day and pre-warm the house a little, or at least make sure your water heater/battery/EV has power.

    Finally, if you go 3 phase, you can leave the existing solar system alone and it can continue producing it's small amount of power, and just get a new system installed on the other phases.

    Hope that helps. Plus head over the Whirlpool forums if you want some good advice on this.

    • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 07:43

      Good info. Our current solar has to come off as we don't have the roof space to leave it and add elsewhere.

      I'm waiting for Marshall Energy to get back to me to discuss options. They seem like a reasonable option based on prior posts about solar that people have made.

    • SBOB on 13/12/2022 - 18:17

      We also bought a standard "old school" electric water heater rather than a heat pump. Couple of reasons.

      Currently weighing up this decision also

      Replacing our gas cooktop currently and hot water is only thing left on gas.
      Conventional with timer from our solar vs heat pump is definitely requiring some maths to see if hear pump makes $ sense.

      As we don't have an ev (nor aiming to have one in near future) im expecting the cost of heat pump would be excessive for its payback period, compared to trickle heating via conventional during daylight hours.

  • WreckTangle on 13/12/2022 - 13:26

    I’ve seen stories of ditching gas costing additional money. Heres one from SA where they were told a full disconnection would be $2500. Crazy, right?

    https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/ombudsman-backs-customer-to…

    • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 13:32
      +1

      So often the case where companies know a chunk of their business is under threat so make it seem prohibitively expensive, or possibly even illegal, to move forward with a disconnect.

      Anyone in Victoria actually made the leap and removed gas from their property and if so any tips on that.

      • baxter on 13/12/2022 - 18:02
        +1

        I'm in Canberra and it was a set fee of $759 to have our gas meter completely removed and the gas line capped at the street. We did this primarily because we are building in our front yard and did not want the gas line there at all.

        Otherwise I understand it would have been FREE to simply put a stop our gas account and so stop paying the $100 quarterly supply cost, but leaving the gas line and meter in place.

        • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 20:04

          I don't think we would look to remove all the lines, just stop the account.

    • coxjon on 13/12/2022 - 18:07
      +1

      I bought a house (with a gas meter) and never connected (signed up for) the gas. When the company contacted me to have me pay to remove the meter I told them to get stuffed and never heard from them again.

  • bargaino on 13/12/2022 - 14:10

    Is it really worth the hassle of replacing the hot water?
    I went to electric heating and cooking. My gas bill is just $20/month for hot water, WA, 3 people.
    Will think about a heat-pump when the instant gas heater breaks.

    • baxter on 13/12/2022 - 18:04
      +1

      That might be the actual gas cost but what about the $300-$400 cost you pay every year as the supply cost of the gas network?!? If you only have one thing that uses such a small amount, you sound like the ideal candidate to switch over to electric entirely and save on the supply costs of gas.

      • bargaino on 13/12/2022 - 19:20

        That's the total. Supply charge is mostly for electric. But I'm in WA, and OP is Victorian, so I was asking a question.

      • jollster101 on 13/12/2022 - 20:09
        +1

        Yeah we have a dead money standing charge of about a $ a day depending on provider.

  • Jono05 on 03/01/2023 - 08:47

    When converting from gas cooktop to induction did anyone have trouble getting new wiring done for a new fuse? How much did it cost?
    My kitchen wall shares the wall with house next door so don’t know how the wiring can get done to the circuit breaker which is in the garage at the front of the house. Any advice?

    • jollster101 on 03/01/2023 - 08:53

      We haven't done it yet but have a quote of $650 to run a new circuit back to the switchboard. We live in a standalone two storey but are fortunate that there is already a circuit run to the spa which is outside on the same wall as where the cook top will go. He can basically follow that wiring back so somewhat simpler for the new one.

      Could be a bit more challenging for your use case though.

      • Jono05 on 03/01/2023 - 10:49

        Thanks for the reply. I had a sparky mate have a look. He said unless there was a string or wire that was put in by the builder from where the oven circuit wiring and the gas igniter wiring is, it’s going to be a pain to put new wiring in for the cooktop. He said my other option is to just get a ceramic cooktop and use the powerpoint for the oven, so it won’t have a dedicated circuit breaker. It’s the common wall that’s the problem. Won’t know if there’s string/ wire until the gas cooktop is removed.

        • SBOB on 06/01/2023 - 08:51
          +1

          had a sparky mate have a look. He said unless there was a string or wire that was put in by the builder from where the oven circuit wiring and the gas igniter wiring is, it’s going to be a pain to put new wiring in for the cooktop

          Worst case scenario is you use the existing oven wiring pull through. Isolate and disconnect from oven and use it to pull a draw rope/yellow tongue etc up the wall and then use that to draw the existing oven and new cooktop wiring back down the wall.

          There's always a way, just depends on effort and $ :)

          • Jono05 on 06/01/2023 - 15:21

            @SBOB: Thanks! That sounds like a good idea. I’ll run it by my sparky mate. Would still be cheaper than maybe trying to go via ceiling or any other way. Oven is plugged into powerpoint, so only need to unscrew powerpoint.

  • Jono05 on 13/01/2023 - 15:36

    Bit the bullet and got a heat pump HWS which was installed today. Next step is to change the gas cooktop to an induction cooktop. Had solar panels put in about 4 months ago.

    • donm on 13/01/2023 - 16:49

      Nice. If you don't mind me asking, what did you get and how much did it cost?

  • Jono05 on 13/01/2023 - 17:51

    I got the Sanden 315L stainless steel tank. Cost was $5710 for supply and installation and after rebate. Apparently the amount of rebate has gone down since 1 January. I got my quote in October and they honoured the quote. Almost cost me more for procrastinating.

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