Problem with Passport Application Because Capital Letters on Citizenship Certificate

Lembi on 01/12/2022 - 14:08
Last edited 01/12/2022 - 14:36 by 1 other user

Hi, this is a very strange problem.

I had just lodged a passport application, and the passport office called me because apparently there is a problem with the citizenship certificate that I provided. The problem is that my full name on the citizenship certificate is written in capital letters (e.g. JOHN SMITH) which indicates that the name on the certificate is only my surname because the given name should be in lower case (John SMITH). So, the passport office told me that I need to apply for a new citizenship certificate or have my given name written as "XXX" on my passport.

I don't know what to do, because I'm sure that there will be a problem whenever I travel because my passport has "XXX" as the given name.

Reapplying/fixing for citizenship certificate costs $240 which is expensive for me and takes 40 days minimum, and I need to travel in around 10 weeks.

Has anyone experienced this?

Thanks

Travel Passport

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2022 - 14:23
    +2

    Aren't all letters capitalised on the passport anyway, so why does it matter? Are the PP office just being pricks?

    • embi on 01/12/2022 - 14:29

      apparently the problem is that the letters on the citizenship certificate are all capital so, they treating my full name as surname.
      they don't really care about my issue. whenever I call them, they ask me to call the immigration people.
      The immi says that it costs $240 to fix it but, they can refund it IF they think it's their fault. but, how do i know if they will think that. Plus, it takes 40 days minimum.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2022 - 14:34
        +7

        Bureaucrats will be bastards. How can it not be Immi depts fault if they know first name needs to be lowercase and gave you an uppercase cert?

        • embi on 01/12/2022 - 15:22

          exactly, thanks for the reply. I'm just very frustrated. I know that they have processed other people who has capital letters for their full name on their citizen cert.

      • pharkurnell on 01/12/2022 - 15:31
        -1

        pay the 240 and live happily ever after.

      • Seraphin7 on 01/12/2022 - 16:53
        +4

        Bottom line is you probably have to pay your $240 and take your chances on the refund.

        Right now, based on the information you have provided, in the absence of paying the $240 the immigration certificate won't get changed and you won't get the passport you want … and nothing will change.

        Pay the $240 and the certificate is changed and the passport can proceed … and you might get your $240 back.

        Government bureaucracies exist at the seventh circle of Hell and sometimes the only way out is to dance to their tune.

      • xylarr on 02/12/2022 - 11:38
        +3

        Ugh, so a government department issued you a citizenship certificate. Then you go to another governemnt department who says it is wrong, go back to the 1st government department and get it fixed - oh, $240 please.
        FFS.
        Truly Kafkaesque.
        This is the sort of thing you might try approaching your local federal member of parliament to see what they can do - quick, before they go on holidays.

        • embi on 02/12/2022 - 13:03

          That's basically it.
          I have sent an email to a federal member. Hopefully they can help but, there is no guarantee. :(

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/12/2022 - 07:58
      +1

      Citizenship certificates are issued with names as either all CAPs or lower and upper case.
      There is no hard and fast rule apart from listing first name before surname.
      They never show surname only.
      So first name comes first and surname comes second.
      And they only prove you are a citizen of Australia so must be accompanied by another form of ID.

      Hence the problem is with the bureaucrat at the passport office

  • Christown on 01/12/2022 - 14:26
    +3

    I do not know what the correct naming format on citizenship certificates is, but I would be contacting the department of immigration and confirming with them if what the passport office is saying, is correct. Then if it is as they say, would be trying to escalate for them to fix their mistake ASAP (as long as it was their issue and not something on your end during the citizenship process).

    Otherwise if it is a negligible thing that shouldn't matter, try and get some written communication from department of immi that says as such, and provide that to passport office as evidence to get them to process passport as normal.

    OR

    Just try and escalate it internally within passport office to get that decision overridden (probably easier said than done).

    Not sure if that's much help, but that is what I would do in your situation.

    • embi on 01/12/2022 - 14:34

      I have contacted the immi, they don't really care much, they don't have the answers to most of my questions and want me to proof that I need the certificate urgently but even if I prove it, she cannot say how soon I can get it.
      She also cannot say whether I will be getting a refund or not. She sounds angry and annoyed and just kept saying " I don't know".

      Thanks for the reply

      • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2022 - 14:36
        +2

        She sounds angry and annoyed and just kept saying " I don't know"

        Ask how she manages to keep her job if she doesn't know what to do/how it works.

        • embi on 01/12/2022 - 14:40

          if I ask that, she would probably say "I don't know" or scream at me.
          I'm frustrated with both the PP office and the immi because I know people who have capital letters for their full name on the citizenship certificate but, had no problem with applying for their passport. I told the PP office that but they said 'well, I don't know about other people but, yours cannot be processed like that'. I can even google AUS citizen cert online and the ones that I can see have capital letters for both given and last name.

          • Edeena on 01/12/2022 - 15:59
            +1

            @embi: Are you sure the person on the phone is really from the passport office? Never heard of anyone having this issue before. I'm sure if this was such a thing the Auspost people would have said something when they processed your passport application. My name on my citizenship cert all capital letters and I got my passport just fine.

            • embi on 01/12/2022 - 16:15

              @Edeena: i think they are from the passport office because i called their office number that i got from google and they said the same thing too. At first, i also thought it was a scam.

      • Christown on 01/12/2022 - 14:43
        +4

        https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-and-support/departmental…

        You can try submitting a complaint. That usually spurs things along faster.

        Next option after that you could try and involve your local federal member of parliament, which I have seen first hand make things happen pretty quickly. I would only do this though after you have exhausted all options, including providing proof you need it urgently, which may be a bit of a process, but unfortunately that's what it's like dealing with government sometimes.

        Try and be forceful when dealing with the departments and ask to speak to a manager. Don't be scared of them, they are supposed to be working for you.

        • embi on 01/12/2022 - 15:20

          thanks for the advice, I will try to call them again and make a complain online to the PP office and probably to the immi too

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/12/2022 - 08:17

      We are talking about government departments here.
      And we are talking about public servants

      Do you seriously think these people are going to communicate with each other?

  • shaybisc on 01/12/2022 - 15:10
    +2

    I always count on at least 50% of the people in any large organisation being incompetent. By the time you're on your third the odds are in your favour. You're only at one - first encounter.

    • embi on 01/12/2022 - 15:19

      unfortunately, I have spoken to 4 people including a guy who claimed to be the supervisor.
      I'm going to file a complaint to the PP office and probably the immi.

    • GordonD on 01/12/2022 - 15:36

      So I should keep buying lottery tickets or putting bets on horses because each time I lose that increases the chance of winning the next time?

      • pjetson on 01/12/2022 - 16:33

        Sounds right.

  • redforever on 01/12/2022 - 15:59
    +2

    I just checked mine. My full name is all in capital letters as well.

    • Edeena on 01/12/2022 - 16:07
      +2

      Me too, all the people I know have theirs in capital letters too. What matters should be the order of the names only.

      • embi on 01/12/2022 - 16:18

        Thats what I said to them as well but they only replied with 'well, i'm not talking / don't know about other people'
        I know my mom also have capital letters on her citizenship certificate and she got her passport just fine. I also have never seen other people's certs with lower case given name but, they don't care.
        May i ask when you got your passport done? i'm thinking that maybe it's a new rule.

        • Edeena on 01/12/2022 - 22:53
          +2

          Shouldn't be a new rule as I actually applied for a new passport 2 months ago and got it just fine. Mine was a new application like yours, no problems at all.

          • embi on 01/12/2022 - 23:35
            +1

            @Edeena: I see.
            I have told them multiple times that other people got theirs just fine even with capitalized given name. They still said no. When I said that my mom got her passport even with the same kind of citizenship cert, they said they cannot confirm because my mom wasn't on the phone so, I offered them to speak with my mom so they can check her details but, they refused, said "it doesn't matter".

            Where did you apply from? I'm in NSW but I think my application got processed in melbourne because I got an email from the melbourne office.

            • Edeena on 02/12/2022 - 16:00

              @embi: NSW and my passport was sent registered post from Melbourne. This is a bizarre situation, it's pretty normal for names to be in all capital letters on citizenship cert. Even on my new passport the names are in capital letters so what the hell, it's not like they can't tell which is your surname. Maybe you can try to contact Immigration Minister
              https://www.andrewgiles.com.au/contact/
              https://twitter.com/andrewjgiles

  • PissLUR on 01/12/2022 - 17:20
    +1

    just checked mine. My full name is all in capital letters as well.

  • trashcan on 02/12/2022 - 00:14
    +1

    Yeah ALL CAPS on my certificate as well.

    On a ligher note would be fun to get the passport issued with XXX as the first name, then get the Immigration department to change your citizen cerificate and get a second passport issued.

    Would have been perfect for me given my dual personality :)

  • kale chips suck on 02/12/2022 - 08:40
    +3

    Write to your federal member of Parliament and ask for help. Or drop by their office.

    The whole thing is ridiculous.

  • 2esc on 02/12/2022 - 09:39

    Bureaucrats and computer software.

    Wife had a problem applying for ndis certificate wouldnt recognise our 15 year old mint contion marriage certificate so we ordered a new marriage certificate as formats do change over time still wouldnt recognise it.

    She had to do the longer slower process stat dec with references etc and then they also needed the small number on the reverse side of the referees drivers licence thats under the last number of the date of birth. Didnt even know this number existed as a security feature. But if year of birth ends in a 2 end bottom part of the 2 obscures part of the number.

    When software works its good but when it doesnt its not easy to resolve when you cant reach those you need to speak to.

  • halvey on 02/12/2022 - 10:13
    +1

    Mine issued in 2003 is all upper case as well and I had no issues getting a passport although it was a few years ago now. I'd be contacting A Current Affair or similar - a bit of publicity goes a long way :-)

    Cheers H.

  • Shoma on 02/12/2022 - 10:17
    +2

    Touch base with your local member of parliament they have been helping people with passport application delays

    • embi on 02/12/2022 - 10:21

      Sorry, just wondering if you are familiar with the process, do i just email a local member about my issue?
      i want to get as much info as possible because I have never done this before. Didn't even know about this option until some ozb members told me.

      • embi on 02/12/2022 - 15:05

        Update: I have emailed them.

  • archieduh on 02/12/2022 - 18:14
    +1

    Ideally get the new certificate and then passport (maybe expedited - again costly) if your travel is very urgent.
    I had an issue with my SURNAME blank and was a nightmare at unexpected of places. Got it fixed the hard way.
    Good luck

  • BendBridge on 03/12/2022 - 11:34

    I have been a PR doe 30+ years. I have problem every time I apply for the extension of my visa online. The problem? I have an alias on my (foreign) passport. The process usually takes 1 day or two to be approved, but the alias on my passport delays the process by over two months. Nobody can tell me how to fix the problem.

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