Is it because you can 'see' asbestos?
And is cognitive dissonance a helluva drug?
Why Do We Focus on Asbestos, When Diesel Exhaust Kills Far More People?
Boogerman on 17/10/2022 - 08:02
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Are you mental?
I have been told I am normal, so you are the mental one
The truth hurts, doesn't itI am The Unforgiven
@the Unforgiven: I think the point being that thread and your comments definitively prove you are either a troll or in some serious need of therapy.
@Finde: ..or I know more than you!
I used to be a mechanic, so I know what comes out of exhausts.
What is your expertise?@Finde: Climate change doomsday report predicts end of human civilisation
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-chang…
These billionaire preppers are planning for the apocalypse. Here's why
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-20/tech-billionaires-are…All of you lot know nothing. Just stick your head in the sand & the whole thing will seem like it never happened. It is just An Inconvenient Truth
If you want to know more, I will tell you after you lot apologise@Finde: I am neither, but you do not care for the facts do you?
I hope you are young so you can live through what is coming!I take it no-one else read what I pointed to, so I will tell you
Global warming has to be kept under 2 degrees or it will become a runaway
I shall explain that for you as I don't think any of you lot can grasp the severity of that statement,
once it hits 2 degrees, it cannot be brought back under 2 degrees EVER!Cop 27 has wrapped up & they say, "Not enough has been done to stop warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius, or even the catastrophic 2C threshold"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-14/was-cop26-a-success-g…Current emissions pledges have us on track to hit as much as 2.8C of warming this century
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-10-27/climate-chang…I suggest you read what I pointed to here & previously.
Now I will tell you what happens after the runaway.
At 5 degrees - ALL LIFE WILL CEASE ON EARTH
You read that right, not even cockroaches would survive; like they do during a nuclear holocaust
Speaking of that, what time is it on the doomsday clock? Have you even heard of such a clock? Do research.
I was even going to tell you when 5 degrees is going to happen (they predicted it in 2019), but you can do research since you think I am 'either a troll or in some serious need of therapy'. I hope you are young & know how to do research
Reading his previous thread, yes he is.
@Finde: Get out of your cave & go to COP27
I see you don't have a licence in any medical practice,
so anything you say is irrelevant
Did you read what I wrote above?
IT is true, isn't it. COP27 syas so
Are they nuts too? I think your the one, not me
Cholesterol and diabetes cause more pain and death, from an unquoted source.
Honestly we should be forcing McDonald's to sell smaller meals. No one needs 3,000 calories in a single meal.
mcdonalds are small enough - have you seen a big mac lately?
Theyve shrunk right? I jnow I've grown since first try of it at around 8!
@Bearlion: Same with the fillet fish burgers afaik. Had them frequently back when I was in uni. Got one recently the fillet seemed 30% smaller and they used half a cheese slice instead of a full one..
@[Deactivated]: Filets have always had a half cheese slice. The other half stays on the table for hours u til the next person orders one.
Agreed … and let's also have government tracking to make sure no one buys a second meal "for their mate" but eat it themselves.
i feel attacked…
I kind of agree, but I think human's view on things are significantly distorted. I hope inflation makes snacks, confectionary etc all too expensive for people to buy as well.
With vegetables and fruits having suffered quite a steep climb, I found that people's perspective is distorted, so if broccoli cost $8 each lets say, then it's daylight robbery, but then buying a small meal at maccas that's comprised of sugar water, half a potato cut up, and two slices of bread and piece of meat with grind up fat is more worth it, then people's view on what value is distorted I feel.
I hope inflation makes snacks, confectionary etc all too expensive for people to buy as well.
What a narrow minded way to think. "Only rich people should be able to afford this".
@The Value: It’s more about poor people getting better value out of decent foods and becoming healthier for it.
You've got your calories and kilojoules mixed up. A medium big Mac meal is about 3600kj which is around 860 calories. The nutritional value might be questionable but it's 40% of the average daily intake for an adult.
McDonald's would have you believe the medium meal is poor value when you look at their menu. And the medium cups don't have the two Monopoly cards.
It's a self control thing though. I limit my McDonald's intake just like I limit how much asbestos I eat.
The chocolate coated asbestos is how they got me hooked. Can't put the stuff down, still a bit chewy though.
People would just buy two and be poorer.
Piss off lol. There's no way a Macca's meal is 3k calories.
Also why should healthy people who eat Macca's as a treat every now and then be punished by old mate who waddles out of his car and buys half the shop
I eat a family box for lunch when they have the 20% off voucher you can punch into the ordering machines. Pretty sure that’s 3000+. Usually I don’t even have lunch. I weigh 70kg
Should just tell Macca's to shove it with their sugury buns & go to a decent place that makes burgers.
I haven't eaten Macca's since the 80's when their buns were just full of sugar, that is why you got hooked on them burgers
I used to just go to the 'greasers' fish & chips place, they make the best burgers & fish & chips
Honestly pretty sure they do and they're called happy meals.
If you go for grilled chicken wrap, garden salad and water, then it's pretty healthy to me.
Your food your choice tho
Post proof otherwise it's a rumor.
So you are in agreement that it's a rumor as no proof shown.
What if I told you the earth was flat…
Hoist the jolly roger then.
Who needs proof, when a moment's thought will more than suffice:
- Every building approval involves pages and pages of asbestos checks and info
- Every gov in Oz (that's a lot more govs than we need) has legislation, documentation and pages of policy created, maintained and distributed about it. Some people's entire job is to enforce and check it. Add their advertising budgets, industry panels…
- An entire legion of the most highly paid people (lawyers) all waiting to jump on anyone who says 'be practical' meanwhile every other country in the world continues to use it for roofs and cladding all over the place. All materials can kill you somehow, not just asbestos
- Every tradesperson has to follow practices that advise them to refuse working on anything asbestos-related
So no-one will stand up for any of it's fantastic properties in any possible application, other than paid pollies and corporate lawyers working in the shadows to hide/obfuscate/corrupt what others do to ban all uses of asbestos.
Asbestos is easily recognised. Singled out… the easy target.
Pollution however, is everywhere. It has perfect, all-pervasive, deniable plausibility.
Petrochemicals of all kinds, when burnt produce only emissions that can be filtered and catalysed into invisible particles, so set to work unseen, killing all of us, to one extent or another (yes there are lots of studies for proof), and are part of the normal way of life since we were all toddlers.
Yet over time overuse and influence orchestrated at all levels of government lead to the death of the planet, and all those not sitting in a deckchair on Mars, counting the concentration of their wealth in galactic coins, and wondering which way to pray for a future they already destroyed.
Where is the link to a scientific paper or scientific post?
Can't let that get in the way of a good rant lol
@ankor: 100% agree. The one line request has got way more response text than I was expecting and days later people are still biteing.
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=h…
Thousands of them… Even with those basic search keywords. Easily a PhD of work to distil them down.
OP is right, hydrocarbon exhaust is horrible for you. But we don't have a whole lot we can do about it, especially if you're required to live in the city for work.
Unless you own a vehicle which is blowing smoke… Please, please get it fixed. And for the love of God, stop removing DPFs
@nigel deborah: Sure.
But it is what you can't see that kills you, so fixing DPFs is not the solution.
Remember that every single smokey tailpipe is only symptomatic of a bigger problem than the engine creating it, (assuming the vehicle has a catalyst/DPF device).
Someone had to make the environment (eg. roads and bowsers) for it. Another make the engine, another buy it.. another use it.
@resisting the urge: I tend to agree. But you're not right about particulates, they can kill you. From a health perspective they might be the worst part of diesel exhaust, potentially causing lung and bladder cancer among other issues. DPFs do not solve the problem but they help.
@nigel deborah: Disregarding DPFs is like disregarding the filters on cigarettes… sure, cigarettes will likely still hurt/kill you, but they'll do it quicker without the filter…
@Chandler: I agree for sure. I'm arguing that point with the other guy. Filter on a cig is a good analogy
@nigel deborah: Sure, I bet lots of people thought that . Bit I didn't mean to suggest particulates are not harmful.
It was more intended as a comment around how we tend to think what we can't see and can't smell won't hurt us. Belching smoke is always bad, it's just that the air most of us breathe in big cities is hardly fresh like nature intended.
Asbestos is easily recognised. Singled out… the easy target.
The stupid bit about that is that the danger from asbestos is what you can’t see.
What if they were a woman?
I agree, when I see someone with a dirty diesel engine overdue for a clean, blowing smoke everywhere, it really pisses me off.
But it also pisses me off when I see people living in houses with decaying asbestos roofs. Asbestos roofs are considered friable asbestos, which is the dangerous kind. It doesn’t cost that much to replace them. I believe it is disrespectful to your neighbours to refuse to replace an asbestos roof. These things are 40, 50, 60 years old now. Imagine, the southerly wind blows directly over your roof into the faces of your neighbours sitting on their balcony.
But we can do something about the health hazards cause by both of these problems on an individual level.
Avoid driving too much, and choose a house nowhere near a busy road.
Choose a house that does not have neighbours with asbestos roofs.
Think you mean thanks to Russia.
DPF don’t solve everything, they just capture a bit more of the soot than before.
And occasionally blow it out in clouds of 'harmless soot'… or fail, sometimes self-combusting to the point that they burn the vehicle to the ground
Is asbestos fatal with only 1 inhale or frequent exposures? My house was built in 65 and initially the building inspector said no asbestos. Now my neighbour said we have asbestos sheets as eaves but not dangerous if it's not breaking. Wonder if 1 inhale is fatal if accidentally inhaled. Thanks
No, they should be fine. Millions of Australians have asbestos eaves and asbestos walls/ceilings. If they’re in good condition and properly painted over, they should be safe. The most dangerous asbestos is the loose fill asbestos insulation material behind walls and ceilings in older houses, which is not very common in existing houses. Inhaling this can be very dangerous.
Asbestos roofs are considered friable (the fibres become loose and airborne), but I believe it would require a lot of exposure to affect your health. I refuse to live near or under an asbestos roof, and I can’t believe there is still no law requiring these to be replaced.
Ah thanks for this knowledge. Yeah a roofer even told me asbestos is actually the best material for eaves. Yeah, now engineered stone is deemed to be dangerous like asbestos for frequent exposure. Thanks again.
1 single asbestos fibre can kill you. Chances are very very low, but it’s possible.
There is asbestos naturally occurring in the atmosphere, you just need to reduce your exposure. It’s perfectly safe in the right conditions. Keep it sealed/painted, don’t break it most importantly, don’t cut it with anything that creates dust. You are allowed to remove a small amount yourself (but don’t unless you have no choice), just follow the guidelines on how to do it safely. I worked with a guy who renovated his house over a few years. When he came to work without his beard it was because he’d done a legal amount of asbestos removal and had shaved his beard to get a decent seal on his respirator mask.
Unfortunately the media has gone a little far with asbestos reporting. Everyone seems to lose their minds when a few small fragments are found in a park despite being there for decades. They barricade it off and test and monitor and report etc instead of having a few trained and PPE protected people go straight in and pick up the pieces with an emu parade.
Sorry but there is no safe level of asbestos exposure. A single fibre can kill although higher levels of exposure is obviously going to pose a higher risk.
Ergo the ridiculous safety protocols surrounding asbestos handling.
Any proof/link of this claim? I wonder if people from 60s (or when asbestos was common in houses) are dying due to minimal exposure of asbestos.
Everyone is exposed to asbestos at some time during their life. Low levels of asbestos are present in the air, water, and soil. However, most people do not become ill from their exposure. People who become ill from asbestos are usually those who are exposed to it on a regular basis, most often in a job where they work directly with the material or through substantial environmental contact.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s…
@Bargain-er: The air in Sydney literally has visible pollution after a couple of days with no wind. There is a noticeable brown tonne to the aircosest to thebground. Where’s it come from? Mostly exhaust pipes.
the overall evidence suggests there is no safe level of asbestos exposure
Copied directly from your link. Seems like they even provided helpful references (multiple!) for it too.
I don't disagree with what you posted btw. It does say clearly that "usually" it's people who are more exposed, but I also said people who are more exposed are more at risk. My comment about "safe levels" are true; there is NO safe level. Unlike other substances (cyanide for example) you could easily consume a small amount and not worry ever.
How do you tell what the roof looks like?
I still think it is insane how the govt has just left it as it is.
Also not to mention when you think about heritage listed home's, how do you rid that of asbestos then?
Anyways, it's absolutely not an understatement when you say Australia's building standards are a complete joke.
Also not to mention when you think about heritage listed home's, how do you rid that of asbestos then?
It’s not hard to find safe replacement materials. Heritage listings are often about the aesthetic rather than the materials. Make it look the same with modern materials. BUT, asbestos in good condition, sealed with paint is quite safe. So if you don’t work with or break it and keep it painted there is little issue. Especially for things like eaves. Loose fibre insulation is bad though and requires the house to be knocked down (as safely as possible)
How do you tell what the roof looks like?
Most asbestos roofs in Australia are medium-dark gray sheets of corrugated asbestos concrete, like the photo in this page:
https://www.airsafe.net.au/news/asbestos-roofs-know-the-risk…
In Google maps satellite view, they look medium grey or dark grey, with faint lines across them. You will get used to seeing them as their colour/texture looks different from tin/iron and tiled roofs.
They make corrugated cement cladding in 100mm corrugations too. Direct replacement for Super Six asbestos. Trust the manufacturer who said asbestos was safe to not have put asbestos in the mix when they cast it.
Yet still when cut with a circular saw, the dust will still kill you. They will just call it a cancer of another kind, eg. silicosis, not mesatheleoma.
I can assure you removal costs of absestos and a new roof won’t be ‘cheap’ lol
My friend did it for $12k in 2018.
dumping fees alone are $10k+… thats why you get a stories periodically of bastards tipping their asbestos loads in front of schools and public spaces, they know the council will clean it up ASAP.
Sorry, I've checked with my friend. It actually cost $15k. Not sure why I got negged.
Asbestos roofs are considered friable asbestos, which is the dangerous kind. It doesn’t cost that much to replace them.
Are you kidding money bags?
Asbestos roofs are considered friable asbestos, which is the dangerous kind. It doesn’t cost that much to replace them.
This is not necessarily true - asbestos can be used in asbestos cement tiles which are not necessarily friable.
As for cheap replacements, also very dubious - I have had two quotes to replace my (asbestos) roof, one was $65k and the other was $100k.
Who is focusing on abestos?
All the people dying from it.
Who says we don’t focus on diesel exhaust?
There are a lot of existing regulations and requirements on diesel, and more on the way - https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/your-environment/air/non-road-die…
Maybe it just doesn’t get the same publicity.The requirements are written in other jurisdictions long before we adopt them
Highly paid people get paid shedloads to copy and paste, when putting new rules in doesn't hurt anyone as all the engines in production are already compliant to suit the markets that put adopted the rules or wrote the standards before us.
And other highly paid people stand around and claim the credit for a cut & paste that took little more than a few checks to confirm there are no party donors affected that have not yet been otherwise exempted, or compensated with public monies
And is cognitive dissonance a helluva drug?
Looks like you still don't know what this means.
Is that on the PBS? lol
And you still think having a degree from the "University of Life" gives you credence
SlavOz alias account?
Whilst SlavOz was one of the more prominent cooked units, there's a fair share of fried minds on here still.
With the demise of SlavOz's account, it has created a power vacuum that seems to be creating ripples on who can come up with the most outrageous shit to fill the void left by Slav's removal.
If only it were that simple.
SlavOz seemed to have cornered the market on religious conservatism with an aftertaste of "everything is the fault of the left and today I define the left as.." but there's as many confused anti-vaxxers, "everything is communism" and the like out there who aren't quite the same stripe.
e.g. SlavOz would use libertarian talk points when it suited him, but he wasn't a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian. No doubt there will be some of these/soverign citizens lurking about however, and I think it would be a mistake to label the most vocal of those that step forward "the next SlavOz", for instance.
He was a troll who seasoned his worldview with the oldest poison in the world, "religion as a cudgel for those around me". To ascribe enfant terrible status to a bad faith actor (pun intended) is over-estimating his legacy (if we call it that).
He had bad takes and argued poorly. Worst of both worlds.
Removal? He's just in the penalty box. He'll be back, it's not his first time in forum prison, and I doubt it will be his last.
Unless I'm missing something?
@Sleeqb7: Previous penalty box were temporary 1month bans. This time its permanent, as theres no ban expiry date next to his name.
He hasn't even logged in since then, so clearly not interested in deals, but to troll the forums with his paranoia.
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I doubt Diesel Exhaust is ever put on a Death Certificate, while Asbestosis probably features.