Viral Anti Self Checkout Copy / Paste Message on Facebook - Is There an Opposite View Message Going around?

I'm sure we have all seen this diarrhea (below message) being posting on Facebook.

Does anyone know if there is a copy / paste contrary opinion message going around also that I can post instead. I could not disagree more. It's not your right to decide how a business utilises their store. It's all bs anyway - they're not exclusively self checkout and I've never had my receipt seriously looked at. I avoid cashiers as much as I can because most of the time they are rude, continue chatting with their co workers and are useless at their job.

"Dear Woolworths Coles, Bunnings and all other stores that have self checkout —
You are almost exclusively self-checkout now. The last time I was there the lady checking receipts at the exit stopping everyone.
I didn't choose to participate in that nonsense, so I just skipped the exit line and left. I heard her saying "Miss, Um Miss” as I kept walking and raised the receipt above my head, leaving the store.
You can either trust me to do self-checkout, or you can put your cashiers back in place like it used to be. I'm not interested in proving that I did your job for you. You want me to be a cashier with no training then that's your problem not mine. Don’t Audit me for a position you refuse to employ any longer. "

Comments

  • +2

    There is no legal requirement for a shopper to show their receipt.

    If store employee believes a shopper has failed to pay for an item, that employee can arrest the shopper and call police.

    A shopper can be banned from a store for not complying with the 'conditions of entry'. In reality I'm not sure how they would do this, as the identity of said shopper would probably be unknown.

    I am a very law abiding citizen, but I also walk out of all stores flashing my receipt without breaking stride and if an employee tries to inspect any of my bags, I tell them politely to call the police if they believe I have stolen anything and continue walking. I am not a sovereign citizen type idiot, I just know what I / they can enforce and what they cannot.

    • +31

      If store employee believes a shopper has failed to pay for an item, that employee can arrest the shopper and call police.

      not true. even a security guard cannot detain a shopper unless they have personally witnessed that shopper stealing, they cannot detain someone based on the word of another person, or a gut feeling.

      • +7

        Of course, every state/territory will have slightly different legislation.

        In VIC, where I am, Sec 458 of the Crimes Act 1956 refers to what I am referring to.

        I used the word "believes" as an abbreviation of "believes on reasonable grounds", because once a poster starts actually listing the legislation here, people turn off…

        The other words in this section that are very important (in Vic anyway) are "finds committing".

        In Vic, there is no requirement for a person to have 'personally witnessed' as you state. The words here are 'finds committing'. You can research those words yourself, wrt Vic legislation.

        Sec 458 says
        "(1) Any person, whether a police officer or not, may at any time without warrant apprehend and take before a bail justice or the Magistrates' Court to be dealt with according to law or deliver to a police officer to be so taken, any person—

            (a)     he finds committing any offence ... where he believes on reasonable grounds that the apprehension of the person is necessary 
        
        • -1

          where he believes on reasonable grounds

          man is that open to interpretation… shouldn't have expected any less of victoria

          though, according to this

          The person making the arrest must have witnessed the offending.

          and i found similar legislation in the ACT, which actually explains "reasonable grounds":

          https://www.police.act.gov.au/crime/citizens-power-arrest

          A person who is NOT a police officer may, without warrant, arrest another person if he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is committing or has just committed an offence.

          Reasonable grounds means you have direct evidence that 'constitutes belief' that the person has committed an offence. An obvious example of 'reasonable grounds' would be if you were to actually see a customer take an item from a store shelf, put it into their pocket and then walk out of the store with that item, thus indicating a clear intention to not pay for it, and therefore steal it.

          though this link disagrees with the first:

          Importantly, the common law has developed important definitions that relate to the interpretation and operation of the first situation. In the case of De Moor v Davies [1999] VSC 416, the court determined the words ‘finds committing’ to have been intended to be given an extended meaning beyond the literal meaning of actually finding an offender committing an offence. Therefore, a person does not need to observe another person committing an offence ‘in the moment’ to be able to perform an arrest in this situation and this can include circumstances that create a reasonable belief in another that one person has committed an offence.

          Section 462 of the Act further defines the words ‘finds committing’ to include the following occurrences:

          Where a person is caught ‘red-handed’ committing an offence;
          Where a person is ‘behaving or conducting’ themselves in such a way so as to create a reasonable belief of guilt; or
          Where a person is in such circumstances that it creates a reasonable belief of guilt.

          that definition seems far too broad, so much so that it should be reworded entirely, i suspect anyone arrested under such grounds would have a field day in court

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: I appreciate that you have done some digging. You are one of few.

            It is a minefield and a member of the public, arresting another person using 458, would have to be absolutely sure of what they are doing AND have (maybe independent) corroborative evidence.

            Your extract from the ACT police site that says "if you were to actually see a customer take an item from a store shelf, put it into their pocket and then walk out of the store with that item, thus indicating a clear intention to not pay for it, and therefore steal it." is itself open to massive interpretation.

            I have been involved in matters where this exact scenario has been witnessed and the person with the item in their pocket, has been found not guilty of theft. Simple explanations include age, distracted by kids, forgetfulness.

            Mens rea is another term you might want to look at, if you can be bothered.

            • +4

              @oscargamer: No need to research Mens rea… I have watched Legally Blonde…

              • @S4Sneaky: I haven't, so I guess something happened in that movie that's relevant?

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: Great insights on the law here from the Google Lawyer.

        • @Sauron is right. 'finds committing any offence' means exactly that, you need to 'find' them committing the offence.

          You need to personally witness the actual offence being committed.

          • @trapper: Trapper. Not the case.

            Scenario… You are walking along a road, you hear the sound of breaking glass from around the corner to your left, you know there is a jewellery shop there. 5 seconds later a man appears from that direction running away from that noise you heard, wearing gloves, carrying a bag with the word 'swag' on it.

            What have you personally witnessed?

            Can you arrest that man?

            If so why?

            If not why?

            • @oscargamer: No you can't.

              If you grab some poor guy in fancy dress who just happened to be there you will be the one getting arrested.

              • -3

                @trapper: And that's your answer .

                I would say yes and I would arrest that person. In the circumstances and my observations, I would say I have found them committing an offence, be it theft or crim damage. Again, in the circumstances I would say that I believe on reasonable grounds it is necessary to arrest to identify that person.

                • +2

                  @oscargamer: You don't even know a crime was committed.

                  You heard the 'sound of breaking glass' and grabbed some random guy on the street. There is no legal grounds at all to arrest this guy.

                  • @trapper: To quote Sauron above (who you state is right)…

                    Finds committing includes…

                    "Where a person is ‘behaving or conducting’ themselves in such a way so as to create a reasonable belief of guilt; or
                    Where a person is in such circumstances that it creates a reasonable belief of guilt."

                    Can I give you another scenario? I'm enjoying this

                    • +3

                      @oscargamer: If you grab an innocent person you will be the one going to jail, so good luck with that.

                      • -2

                        @trapper: No. But a false arrest might end up in a charge.

                        So….not another scenario then?

        • But if you did not steal anything, then how could a store employee possibly believe on reasonable grounds that you stole something? If your skin is brown maybe? If your clothes are old and worn?

    • -6

      I get asked for my reciept in Aldi all the time, i tell them to get lost. I have had quite a few arguments with the check out staff about it. Want to look at my bags.. go ahead but sure as hell im not producing another shops receipt for you

      • You can, of course, also refuse to let them look at your bags too. This is another bluff like "It is a conditon of entry to this store … etc". They have no legal right to either demand you show a receipt or to look at your bag without your consent.

        • It's a bit like the sign the receipt thing when you are getting cash out and things like that

          There is no way they can demand that

        • +1

          This is correct.

          Your fall back line is 'I consented when I entered the store, but consent can be withdrawn at anytime. I'm now withdrawing consent and leaving'

          Store and security staff know they can't compel you to stay, otherwise they'll likely end up with a false arrest to worry about.

    • I also continue to walk while flashing the receipt also, on the occasions they have asked me to stop, I've told them, "Walk with me."

      In the past, I have been asked for a receipt for things in my bag that are their competitor's brand or product categories they don't sell.

      • things in my bag that are their competitor's brand

        Just because it's a woolworths branded product, doesn't mean it isn't on a shelf for sale in Coles though

      • +2

        their competitor's brand or product categories they don't sell.

        I was asked that once and told them that I didn't have the receipt because I stole it from the other shop.

    • In reality I'm not sure how they would do this, as the identity of said shopper would probably be unknown.

      You obviously haven't seen the stories recently about the major retailers using facial recognition…

      • Certainly have, but how do they serve a banning notice without a name?

        • Good point; not sure. Maybe if they've got reasonable suspicion they can get a name from the cops? Do they need to use a banning notice to restrict your entry?

          Personally I think the facial recognition is so that they can closely monitor suspicious individuals, i.e. recognition pings you = you get digitally followed through the store and caught red handed so that they can be turned over to the police and banned. Thieve them once: shame on you; theive them twice: you pay the price.

    • +1

      I’m astounded that Colesworths haven’t done what most big stores in Europe/UK do (although I believe Woolworths were trialling it somewhere).

      Over here (UK) you can scan your loyalty card at the entrance to a bank of scanner “guns” with big LCD’s on them (or use your phone to scan a QR code and have your phone do the same thing).

      Then, walk around and scan items you put directly into your bag or trolley with bags. Get to check out and you scan the barcode at the self service check out. Your shop is displayed on the LCD as you go, and confirmed at the checkout that everything scanned correctly. You can then also scan coupons, pay, and walk out. Liquor (which is sold in grocery stores here) is flagged and an attendant verifies age and away you go.

      How do they check your bags? Easy. Every 6-12 months my shopping is randomly selected for more checks. The attendant scans 3-4 random items and if they’re all in your scanned shopping, you’re good to go.

      I did once, 100% on accident, forget to scan a bottle of salad dressing and it was one of the random check days. They then opened a check out, did a full manual re scan of my items and I was on my way. My “random” bag spot checks did become every time for a good few months though, but now I’m back to very infrequent checks. I also buy mostly the same stuff and their algorithms tied into it all are very good.

      Surely that’s going to save them time? Don’t use the scanner gun things if they don’t want to, but give people the option to use their phones. Surely the IT can’t be that hard, it’s just bar codes and they already have their inventory and loyalty programmes all tied up nicely?

  • +29

    Facebook

    copy pasta

    groan

    That’s exactly how you figure out who else needs to be defriended.

  • +35

    Seriously, if you have an opposing view, can't you type it up yourself?

    Note: this response was a copy paste from an old gumtree listing I saw once.

    • +3

      :D

      • +42

        Your lengthy post above says otherwise.

        • Over half their post is the copy-pasta…

      • +2

        Because you're wasting it reading rubbish on Facebook.

  • +8

    It’s a copy pasta but the original that was floating around said MAAM, it’s from the yanks

    • Ok sir

  • +11

    I avoid cashiers as much as I can because most of the time they are rude, continue chatting with their co workers and are useless at their job.

    You remind me of someone ……

  • +24

    No, there is no opposing view to this, they make a valid point. Big chain supermarkets are replacing trained personnel (staff) with untrained, self supervising volunteers (shoppers). The bean counters have obviously factored in that the stock losses from theft are far exceeded by the cost of wages.

    Weird thing is though, that people will happily pump a dangerous and highly flammable liquid into their own cars that they haven't been trained to do and then walk 30m into a shop and hand money to someone standing still and well out of harms way for the privileged to pump their own highly volatile and flammable liquid into their own vehicle… but then get on Fartbook and bitch about having to scan 5 items and pay at the point of scanning for inert items in Coles.

    Not sure what you are looking for, legislation? What rights the shopper has and/or the store has? It would be a condition of entry to these supermarkets that they reserve the right to inspect your bags on exit, but that is about it, it is a "request" and nothing more. They cant touch you or your stuff. Security guards are not police. Now, if they believe you have stolen something, they can detain you until police arrive, but they do this at their own risk, because if it can be proven that you did NOT steal anything, they open themselves up to massive litigation and possible arrest for the detainer.

    If you have an opposing view, use your big boy/girl words and express it.

    • -2

      People pump their own gas and don't have any problems with it.

      So those sooking about self serve checkouts are hypocrites.

      • +11

        one of the main complaints i see about self checkout is how often the machine glitches, or is just broken, and they require a staff member to checkout anyway.

        they would be hypocrites if the fuel pumps were as glitchy as the self checkout.

        • +4

          You have pumped 5L of petrol. We measure your car has got lighter by 80Kg. Staff member called.

        • +1

          good god it's infuriating. the woolies ones are especially bad.

          the UI is infuriating. i am trying to purchase three items in a hurry. i don't want to have to answer four questions regarding my shopping (am i ok to use card only? YES. do i have a reward card? NO. do i want to donate to xyz? NO. do i want a receipt? NO.).

          just let me scan the items, hit a big button that says 'done' and swipe my phone/card. it should be that simple.

          • @jrowls: A Woolworths rewards card might help as you can opt-out of paper receipts.

            • +1

              @ihfree: sure, but i don't WANT a woolworths reward card. i just want to go to the shops without having to be driven made by inane and useless robot questions.

              the receipt question is the one that i actually don't mind, it can stay if the other three bugger off.

      • +3

        Are they stopped from driving off to show their receipt?

        • Might have to start carrying the receipt from the last fuel fill just to prove the fuel already in the tank was purchased elsewhere… :D

    • If shoppers are self-scanning items and thus,
      reducing the business "expense" of hiring the cashiers,
      then, the cost of supermarket items should come down.
      I'm working for my discount !

  • +16

    What a dribble post. Gave up reading after first two paragraphs.

  • +31

    Unknown item in bagging area

    • +54

      *removes last item*

      "Item removed from bagging area."

      FUUUUUUUUU

      • +4

        Haha… thanks for the meme. I LOL'd

    • Unknown bagging item in area

    • Small fire in bagging area.

  • +1

    Reeeeeeeeee

  • +10

    You are almost exclusively self-checkout now.

    None of my local stores of any of the chains mentioned are even remotely self checkout only yet, so I'd be interested to know if any are.

    On the other hand, my observation of the the popularity of self-checkout even when regular checkouts are staffed is hard to ignore.

    I can only speak for myself when I say that I'm amongst those that do prefer self-check for most of my shops. Why?

    • Most of my shops tend to be small to medium sized, so they're very much doable via the self-serve checkouts, saving the staffed checkouts for those doing major shops with a stacked trolley (or two!… my god, the grocery bills must be enormous if that's a regular household shop.)
    • Being a massive nerd, I know that the setup of the self-serve & express checkout areas mathematically much faster… one queue being serviced by multiple checkouts is almost always gonna get you out of the store faster.
    • I get to pack my own bags. Many aeons ago, when I did my stint as a checkout chick at an independent, I was required to make an effort to pack the customer's bags sensibly. Cold/frozen together, fragile and/or soft items on top, don't overload one back with too many large/heavy items, etc. If that sort of training is still done by the majors, then it seems to go largely ignored.
    • +3

      The one that sh1ts me is putting meat trays on the side so the juice gets into the peel off film
      .

      • And you get to find any leaks in the seal!

        • that's why I upturn milk before putting in trolley
          .

    • Coles at central west shopping centre in west Footscray. Recently became all self serve. Disgusting and sad. Less jobs for young ppl, less opportunities for staff to build skills and less hours for staff.

      • +3

        No one wants those jobs.

      • Less HR issues and Union worries. I’d rather manage robots- at least they can be relied upon.

    • +2

      I read that self-checkout itself is not the main complaint, it is the lack of the trust of the stores to stop customers to double check, it is degrading for people from time to time. The counterview would in places like Costos they always have someone at the gate after manually checking out to review your invoice & goods in the trolley, while I hate that practice, we just get along with it, maybe to exchange for the "cheaper" prices of goods?

      • +1

        Yeah. The whole checking of trolleys at supermarkets feels like they're taking it too far.

        I can only guess that they're responding to something in particular at stores where people are exploiting the system.

        I've never quite understood the costco thing. My local bunnings does something similar - scanning the barcode on the receipt regardless of whether you're coming from the self-serve or not. I'm sensing that I'm just not evil enough to think of what scam they're trying to prevent. 🤷‍♂️

        • +3

          Perhaps people are buying stuff and coming back later to steal the same item a second time. Maybe the receipt scanning checks for any receipts over 10 mins or so old. Scanning might also be a way to prove the customer has left with the goods, so if they come back again and try to steal a second time, the customer can't claim they never left the store.

  • +11

    A fair few times I had a trolley (half) full of stuff at night and only the self checkouts and express (<=12 items) line was open. I don't care, I line up in express, I'm not self checking out that many items. Sometimes they'll check me out there but most of the time they call me to a regular checkout and open it up for me. I'm happy to help the cashier by bagging while they're scanning but I'm not doing the whole thing only so the shop can save coin. If they start offering a discount for self checking then I might change.

    • That's what everyone should do,
      ie. when possible, use a cashier's service and pay cash too.
      ( When cash goes, so will many of our freedoms )

      I agree too about the fact that with so many self-checking out,
      that prices of items should be coming down, if there are less business 'expenses' due to less cashiers.

  • +8

    In regards to avoiding cashiers etc I hope you are not one of these people who talk on the phone while paying, don’t know how much money they have in their account, and proceed to open their banking app and transfer money that’s if they remember their pin, while there is a queue of people waiting to get served, last time I looked the self checkout was optional.
    Theft is a big problem in retail and as per usual it’s minority that stuff it up for the majority!!
    Oh by the way if I am talking to my colleague, it may because I won’t see them for the rest of the day, don’t take it personally!!
    I have met plenty of rude customer’s so it goes both ways!!

      • +4

        have you considered writing a book on winning friends and influencing ppl?

      • Anger management problems, it looks like…

        • -5

          More like low tolerance of entitled blingwad leftists

      • This could be an attempt at satire, or just the rantings of an abnormal mind…

        • -3

          I dont think its satire…The shop worker who posted they want to chat to their friends rather than work but wanted the customer to not talk to anyone whilst being served seemed quite serious. Abnormal mind is my guess

    • The thing is, the self serve checkout often times is not optional, not at all times, at least

  • +5

    I sympathise with the intent of the viral message doing the rounds after what I found a busy supermarket doing a few years back. They closed most staffed checkouts and were funnelling shoppers through a bank of new self checkouts, then insisting on detailed exit checks by a single staffer who was looking at the receipts and verifying items in their cart/bags.

    The result was a long queue of people waiting to be checked, getting quite impatient. I walked around that queue and was informed by the somewhat pompous "verifier" to get back in the queue and wait my turn, I refused and left the store with my paid for shopping. She tried to block my exit and I told her she had 2 choices, call the manager who can refund my entire shop or call the cops who can verify my purchase. I continued to shop there and was never stopped again. Soon after the verify on exit was stopped.

    The Colesworth mob can't have it both ways, they provide service with its inherent loss prevention or improve their technology to prevent loss at self checkouts and that, as we know is happening, with cameras and so on, which don't slow us as customers down. What really annoys me is that where I shop has made the self checkout scales so sensitive that I seem to spend an ever increasing time waiting for staff to clear "errors" that are not of my doing.

    My guess is that this movement is railing against this loss of convenience and speed at self checkouts as well as lack of service. I'm at one with that.

  • +1

    If you hate self checkout or showing your receipt to staff, your doing it wrong- you need to: 1. Take a group of friends with you 2. Load up as much shit as you can carry in your arms 3. Make for the exit with your buddies, knocking shit over and intimidating staff and customers 4. Stop across the road to compare loot

  • I don't like having to go around the back and get my own items. I should just be able to rock up to the counter and give the list to a staff member to go get like the old days.

    • +6

      You can essentially do that now with click and collect.

  • +2

    Bunnings is excessive w.r.t checking receipts upon exit, at least in my experience. Personally, I do find this annoying, I'd say it happens to me a minimum of 30% of the time I visit (not sure if it's because I look sus, or because I typically buy few products at a time since I live close to the store).

    Having greet staff at the entrance is a valid mechanism to discourage stealing, but the receipt checking is not resonable IMO. I highly doubt they actually stop anyone who IS stealing with the receipt checking because the thief would just leave. So why do they inconvenience paying customers with it? On the off chance a thief is kind enough to stop and let them inspect their receipt lol?

    • +1

      At all the Bunnings stores I’ve been to they don’t inspect the receipt with any detail. They just scan it and you’re done, hold the receipt on the correct angle as you walk towards the person and you barely even need to slow down as they scan it. Maybe I just look honest though.

      • What's the point of that then? But yeah fair, look it is a minor inconvenience, it just annoys me how much these companies make in $$ yet are willing to slog consumers with misc inconveniences.

    • Never had my receipt scanned at Bunnings. Might be a city thing?

  • +1

    Costco has a person doing the checkout and they check my receipt thoroughly and count every item in my trolley.. what do I do there?

    • Yeah. I don’t understand that

      There is often a queue too, to get the receipt checked

      Makes me avoid Costco

      • i read that they do it to prevent duplicate items but could just be bs

    • +3

      Keep your pace, smile while waving your reciept & walk past. They don't have a right to stop you unless they're prepared to call the popo & accuse you of theft.

      • -1

        Cheers. That's much more sensible than stopping to let them look at it.

      • try doing that at Costco lol

        • +1

          I have, as I know the laws around it. If the line is short and I have nothing important, I'll entertain it. If not, I'm walking right past. Legally, they have no grounds to stop you unless you've stolen & they're certain of it.

  • +1

    If you have nothing to hide why hesitate? I went to a fresh market today and it had notice stating every shopper must show their bags as a condition of entry. You should ask about other side of that story to get an idea how much shop lifting takes place and these are just preventive measures. 🤷‍♂️

    • and it had notice stating every shopper must show their bags as a condition of entry.

      They have no way to enforce this though, the whole thing is pointless because any actual shoplifter will just say no thanks and walk out.

      It just annoys the honest people 'with nothing to hide' letting weirdo shop workers poke through their bags.

      • -3

        They have no way to enforce this though

        Hmm. Given it’s a private shop and they display conditions of entry to shoppers clearly I don’t see why they aren’t allowed if they want to. 🤔

        • +1

          Allowed to do what?

          No one can touch you or otherwise prevent you from walking out the door. Just say no thanks and keep walking.

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