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12V 100Ah Lithium Battery LiFePO4 $271.20 ($264.42 eBay Plus) + Delivery ($0 to Most Areas) @ jewelleryidea eBay

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12V 100Ah Lithium Battery LiFePO4 $271.20 ($264.42 eBay Plus) + Delivery ($0 to Most Areas) @ jewelleryidea eBay
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bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 04:32 ebay.com.au (345 clicks)
Last edited 19/09/2022 - 13:15 by 1 other user
SVE20PLSAV22

Similar to a previous deal posted for this 100Ah Lithium battery, different eBay seller (though possibly same as outbaxcamping anyway)
These have a 50A BMS so not possible to run more than 600W and I don't think it's possible to run them serial or parallel.

I purchased this from this seller a little while back. While I haven't done a full capacity test, on charging it took 70Ah and have run a constant 50A draw for 10 minutes (I only have a 600W inverter so couldn't push it any higher with what I had during the test).

Features

  • Nominal Capacity: 100Ah
  • Usable Capacity: 100Ah
  • Nominal Voltage: 12.8V
  • Watt Hour : 1280wh
  • Charge Voltage: 14.6V
  • Discharge Cut-off Voltage: 10V
  • Charge Method: CC/CV
  • Charger: 14.6V20A
  • Max.Charge Current: 50A
  • Max.Continues Discharge Current: 50A
  • Cycle Life: 2000times
  • Dimension: L306 * W169 * H215mm
  • Working Temperature Range: Charge:0°C to 45°C. Discharge:-20°C to 60°C
  • Storage Temperature: -10°C to 50°C

Original Coupon Deal

Electrical & Electronics 100Ah 12V Battery LiFePO4 Lithium Battery Rechargeable Battery

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closed Comments

  • seefu on 19/09/2022 - 06:08

    Does having a BMS mean it can be connected to a dumber non Li specific battery charger?

    • cakesyy on 19/09/2022 - 06:10

      Nope. That is why it needs a special charger.

    • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 09:34

      Yes they do.

      Plenty of ebay reviews tearing down this battery, iirc most end up about 92Ah.

      These can direct drop into slow charging SLA systems, but their capacity will be down a little, because a full SLA is a slightly lower voltage than a LiFePo4. Its not by too much though.

      Also since the discharge curve is much more flat, your monitoring wont be accurate.

      Typically the moment an SLA meter drops 1, sometimes 2 bars, you assume the LiFePo4 is about to cutoff.

    • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 09:46

      Technically yes, if you charge with a non Li Ion charger the BMS should disconnect once fully charged. If you are using multistage charger it will likely switch to float early though so you probably won't get a full charge into the battery.

  • cakesyy on 19/09/2022 - 06:12
    +9

    These guys sell fake solar panels So beware

    There is no way this can generate 200w based on the size

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/162944617336?hash=item25f0418b78…

    • M00Cow on 19/09/2022 - 07:22
      +6

      These guys sell fake solar panels So beware

      But they sell jewellery! Jewellers sell watch batteries, so they'd obviously be experts in LiFePO4.

    • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 10:05

      Yeah, about 150W by my calculations.

      They look like a typical chinese dropship company; just going by the inflated manufacturer specs.

      Nothing to defend. But also not the worst lie ive seen on chinese electronics.

    • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 10:11
      +1

      Yes, though this deal is for a battery.

      You'll notice they sell very similar products to outbaxcamping which leaves me thinking there's a good chance they are same seller (though I also noticed you didn't neg the last deal)

    • team teri on 12/10/2022 - 22:05

      Wow, this one is bad. 710x700mm that is about an 80W panel. Never seen this much exaggeration before.

      Thanks for that, I'll stay clear of their batteries now.

  • xyzed on 19/09/2022 - 10:05

    "Max.Continues Discharge Current: 50A" - yikes, so that'll be like only 20-25A continuous. Just good enough to keep your Waeco/Engel fridge and LED lights at the campground running. Only suitable to like a 250W-300W inverter if wanting to use for 240V.

    But let's see how many end up buying and trying to connect to their 2000W inverter :-P

    • SAU on 19/09/2022 - 10:12

      If they connect it to a cheap 2000w inverter from the same origin, its possible they will work nicely together. The load will not though =)

    • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 10:18

      As I mentioned in the post, I ran a constant 50A for 10 mins with my 600W inverter no problem. Not a thorough test but I just wanted to make sure it could draw that much even though I rarely would. It did shut down over 50A though not sure which triggered first, the inverter or BMS.

      Don't forget this is a $270 battery, so if you want to run more than the fridge and a few lights it's probably not the battery for you.

      • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 21:58

        Yeah, he's reading the "continuous" rating like its a burst rating.

    • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 10:24

      Yeah 50A continuous BMS inside these.

      I have 2 in series running my shed for 24v

  • bargaino on 19/09/2022 - 10:57

    Buy ten for a DIY powerwall? :-)

  • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 11:11

    Hmmmm, a lot of sellers have the VoltX 12V 100Ah for $365 at the moment, I had pretty much settled on that last night, now this deal comes along…
    i.e. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295208935056

    My current 120AH AGM in my campervan is way down on capacity so I need to upgrade, I figure I'll just get a cheapish LiFePO4 to get me through 2 or 3 years until prices come down and quality goes up…

    To the people that have more of an idea than me, do you think the extra $100 is worth it for the VoltX ? Cheers.

    For anyone looking at converting to LiFePO4, this company have 20/22% off Victron gear at the moment, it's almost NEVER discounted:
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/725502
    Their bluetooth solar MPPT chargers are about as good as they get I believe, you can run old grid connect panels on their MPPT chargers :
    https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true…
    (I think I'll go for the 75/15 @ $136 https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/284198403421 )

    • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 11:37

      My first thought is do you need more than 50A but looks like the VoltX doesn't do any higher until the 200Ah battery anyway.

      What will you be running on battery? I think this one is ok for light use for ~$270 but I don't have any experience with the VoltX to compare either.

      I can say good choice on solar charger though. I use the same and would recommend ($133 was what I paid 2 years ago). You can run panels up to 75V on that one so yeah old panels work fine, or you can run two camping panels in series (there's advantages to running higher voltage, one being thinner cables needed for less current and I also seem to remember reading the Victron runs more efficiently at higher voltages too). You'll be limited to 15A output so just need decide if that's fast enough to charge your 100Ah…

      • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 11:49

        50amp is fine for me, I can work with that…. It's just for a Hiace minibus campervan/adventure base, main consumption is the fridge, tablet, lighting and such, I installed a diesel heater last year but due to lack of capacity in my aging AGM I can rarely run it, it doesn't use a great deal of power but it's still more power than I can afford in winter when there's very little sun to recharge and I'm not driving much, lol… , and I recently bought an inverter to recharge my e-bike, so I need more capacity but I'm happy to work with a "true 100AH", that's likely to be about 2x to 3x the capacity I have at the moment… (I'll probably keep the old AGM in there also, not in parallel, on a separate DC-DC charger since I have a couple)

        Looking at the last deal for these batteries it seems they are pouch cells, there's some photos inside here:
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12638775/redir
        The VoltX uses prismatic cells, hmmm…

        (I'm leaning towards the VoltX at the moment)

        • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 12:08

          As with any li-ion, if you don't discharge below 20%, ideally don't charge above 80% and store around 50% if not using for a while you should get decent life out of it.

          Going by best practices your AGM only had 60Ah of usable power if sticking to the 50% rule and you'll have 80Ah with this one if true 100Ah but even if it's a little less no worse than what you started with but a 50% weight reduction (and saved you nearly $100)

          The general consensus is these are packed with used cells with plenty of life left in them so I guess its still a gamble, though I don't know if VoltX uses new cells anyway.

          • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 13:05

            @bamzero:

            Going by best practices your AGM only had 60Ah

            Yep, I never take it below 12v… I've never actually measured the exact usable capacity but I'm confident it was well below 60Ah when new, and even less now… It was a fairly cheap $260 ebay purchase (while I was on the road in 2018 in the middle of a 5 month roadtrip, my old battery dropped a cell so I had to get a replacement straight away)….

            It's always such a gamble with cheap batteries, it seems these cheapie pouch batteries run 60Ah pouches in parallel and people have reported the claimed capacity is a bit questionable, some say 80Ah some 106Ah….

            I do wonder about the long term balancing and such with pouch cells in a series-parallel setup, I think I'd have more faith in series only Prismatic batteries…

            Another thing with these $265 cheapies, in the specs most the sellers list the max charge/discharge @ 50amp, but they list the Standard charge/discharge @ 25amp….

            • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 14:32
              +1

              @FLICKIT: I ran constant 50A for 10 mins to test, not sure how long it would keep it up as was long enough for me so I shut it down.
              Voltage dropped to 12.5V under load by the end of the 10 mins and returned to 13.1 after disconnecting load (was at 13.2V to begin with)

              Worthwhile getting a shunt too. I have one like this (good price btw for local Amazon stock) which works well enough, but also got a GC97 as it displays everything on the same screen but they've gone up a fair bit as only paid about $20 delivered with the shunt and the listing is now for monitor only + shipping.

          • 0jay on 19/09/2022 - 17:58

            @bamzero:

            As with any li-ion, if you don't discharge below 20%, ideally don't charge above 80% and store around 50% if not using for a while you should get decent life out of it

            These are not lithium ion, it’s lithium iron phosphate - different chemistry and characteristics.

            • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 18:58
              -1

              @0jay: Well really there's not any one particular li-ion battery. Lithium-ion covers a number of lithium chemistries, lithium iron phosphate included.
              I think these general rules apply to all the li chemistries though some may tolerate it better than others.

              • 0jay on 19/09/2022 - 19:11

                @bamzero:

                Lithium-ion covers a number of lithium chemistries, lithium iron phosphate included

                It’s a different chemistry.

                It has different characteristics and what you’ve posted above on charge/discharge doesn’t apply.

              • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 22:05

                @bamzero: Thats wrong. Its a different chemistry entirely.

                You can take these 90% to 90% without any notable aging or cell degradation.

                Also, even if you went 100% down to BMS cutoff, the 'damage' to LiFePo4 is significantly less than LiIon, and even more significantly less than LiPo.

                The only way he could do better is with lithium-titanium-oxide, however capacity drops way down.

    • xyzed on 19/09/2022 - 13:02

      First thing you need to work out is how much current draw do you need at one particular time? If that's like 20A at 12V, then these are ok as a temporary solution until better grade batteries reduce in price.

      Both this deal and the VoltX at $365ish are 50A MAX. Discharge (that's not constant, Max maybe for like 5 seconds, 5 minutes - they never really specify) or maybe the BMS's ultra limit before cutting out. i.e. try and draw 52 amps and it turns off. But in general, Constant is usually half that of Max Discharge rate.

      Victron on special. Well there is a reason. Victron Dealers are not permitted to advertise at lower than 10% RRP. May I suggest signing up to a sites 'club pricing' like Outback Marine - wink wink.

      Oh and as you're currently AGM, make sure your battery charger can charge lithium.

      • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 13:36

        Cheers, I've just been thinking on and questioning the 50amp rating… Reality is I would very rarely get anywhere near 50amp, but it's nice to have the rating for brief peak loads… The fridge is maybe 3amp, the heater is like 10amp on startup then only a couple of amps while running, other stuff is very low consumption, so well under 25amp with everything going… I did buy a Renogy 1000w inverter because the price was right, overkill, that'll only get used to power a ~120w ebike charger, I may get a ~240w charger down the track which is likely to push the power draw on the battery up around the 25amp mark…. So yeh, it would be nice to get a battery that can handle "up to 50amp" even though I'm likely to be down below 25amp 99% of the time… (I have no ambitions of ever running high power mains devices off the inverter or such, certainly not 1000w)

        Charger wise I've ordered a Victron 15amp mains charger, and I'll probably grab a Victron mppt solar charger… As for DCtoDC for charging from the alternator, I'm considering being a bit dodgy and just run a Projecta IDC25 in Gel or AGM mode, I have 2 of these chargers ( https://www.projecta.com.au/products/idc25/12-24v-25a-dc-bat… ) … It "seems" this will probably be ok to charge the lithium while the van is running considering I'll have good quality solar and mains lithium chargers that will ensure the battery is balanced and such correctly, it's not like the lithium battery will be getting a not-ideal charge 24/7, or as it's only form of charging, it will only be while driving, and I might throw an isolator on it so I can turn off the DCtoDC when it's really not needed… (I had considered one of the $130 Renogy 20amp dc to dc chargers, but I'm still thinking on that, maybe down the track, they seem a bit crude, I have my doubts they would be much better than the Projecta)

        • xyzed on 19/09/2022 - 14:16

          You know what, looking at the cases on this and the VoltX they seem identical. VoltX isn't a manufacturer it's just a brand slapping the same on the side. I wonder if they are the same. Heck I'm buying one of these just to check.

          Noooo don't use your AGM/Gel charger. Totally different charge algorithms and voltage settings. Lithium is just Bulk/Absorb/Float at certain voltages, otherwise you'll kill your cells. Just use your solar on the roof then to charge while driving (well not at night obviously)

          • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 15:01

            @xyzed: From a previous deal:
            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12638775/redir
            these cheap batteries contained pouch cells in series/parallel:
            https://postimg.cc/gallery/vMSrj46
            Edit: and the only place I can find a weight on these is on Amazon,
            https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B09MDWTCJR
            14.7kg, compared to the VoltX at 11.5kg, which suggests they're different:

            For a comparison this guy tears down a VoltX, again used cells, and not great balancing, but I find that option more attractive than the pouches in parallel (but I'm still weighing options, lol)… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGrgYqF_PUQ (he has 3 videos about them)

            With chargers, I agree it's not ideal to use a AGM charger but… The rated charge for these lithiums is a constant 14.6v, these DCtoDC AGM chargers are a constant 14.4v @ 20amp for bulk, then a constant 14.4v for absorb, then 13.7v for float, if this was the only form of charging I can see it could be an issue because the cells will never balance, but having the decent MPPT lithium charger on top of that, I struggle to see there being an issue, the solar will do the balancing and final charging… (and I'll probably throw a cut off switch on the DC to DC for those times when I'm driving 12 hours per day, day after day, and the alternator charging isn't required)

            The budget isn't going to stretch another $270ish at the moment to buy a decent lithium DCtoDC charger, and Tassie being Tassie I can't rely 100% on solar, alternator charging is a must at times…. I think I'm happy to risk a cheap lithium with this method in the short term….

      • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 15:14
        +1

        I probably should have replied in this thread :) but yeah it definitely handled 50A for 10 minutes at least but shut down at higher load. I'll need to run a straight DC load at 50A to see if it was the BMS or inverter shutting down over 50A as I only have a 600W inverter anyway but I'm happy enough with that as I'll likely not be drawing more than 10A anyway.

        It's hard to say with any of these cheap batteries. Just because one had certain cells, you don't know what you'll get in the next one as they would use whatever is available at the time.

        • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 15:20

          Thanks for your input… It's not easy, they all seem a bit dodgy, I'm just trying to pick the less-dodgy and most cost effective option, lol…

          $265 is very attractive, but if a $365 battery gives me a little more capacity and an extra year of usable life, say 3 years versus 2, it would be worth spending the extra money…. A big part of it for me is staggering the setup costs, rather than forking out a couple of grand on the best gear on day one… hmmmm…

          • bamzero on 19/09/2022 - 17:47

            @FLICKIT: Sure, I know what you mean. This was my first li-ion battery, replacing an 80Ah AGM. I figured even if it's a bit below stated capacity I'm ahead of 40Ah as well as reducing the weight.

            While I don't know in reality how it would have gone they're offering 30 days no questions asked refund if not happy (the actual number of days seems to be missing from the description now though the rest is there and is listed on the eBay return policy) and paypal returns should have covered the return costs so if I got it and it seemed like junk it would go back.

            As for longevity, time will tell but I'm hoping that since I wont be working it too hard and so long as I store it right when not using I should get a decent amount of life out of it. By then, hopefully li-ion is dirt cheap ;)

            • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 18:28

              @bamzero: I've been researching batteries most the day, it's a deep rabbit hole to fall into, lol

              I'm becoming more and more cautious of these batteries which contain well-used second hand cells, I'm not sure they're worth the risk considering they have basically no warranty other than the Paypal protection… Even the well known larger companies like Outbax are notorious for not doing the right thing, it's very unlikely they'd honour the 3 year warranty they claim their batteries have, and if you could get a response out of them no doubt they'd claim misuse or such rather than admit they're selling second hand crap…

              Anyway, other than basically no warranty, what turns me off is the fact it seems the second hand cells in these batteries are all down at about 80% capacity, which is generally classed as "end of life', the sellers claim they're still good for 2000 cycles but that's very unlikely… It also seems most these used cells are fairly new, so for them to be down to 80% capacity it seems they've probably had a very hard life, very high charge and discharge rates or the likes… It's well known that cells tend to drop off fast once they hit 80% capacity which is why that's classed as end of life, and why these have been pulled out of service to be sold to us, lol…

              I've started looking around at batteries with new cells but ouch, not cheap… Renogy have some but I dont trust them, their reps seem to know nothing about their products and their warranties seem pretty sus, being an international company they can do what they like basically… They seem to survive on sponsored reviews so it's very hard to know what the truth is…

              If a $590 100AH deal like this one @BigweiBattery came up again I'd probably jump on it: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/699446 , Aussie made/assembled with new A-grade cells, local warranty, and such….

              I think I'll have to stew on it for a bit longer….

              • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 22:08
                +1

                @FLICKIT: If you know how to attach a BMS, you cant go better than plain cells from aliexpress, and a battery box.

                • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 22:16

                  @MasterScythe: That has crossed my mind, building a battery would be no issue for me but I have very little faith in Aliexpress sellers, so many scammers on there, I guess it would be a matter of doing some research to find the trusted cell sellers..

                  • MasterScythe on 19/09/2022 - 22:25
                    +1

                    @FLICKIT: Just buy from LittoKala like everyone else.

                    They're so cheap, and they're a known brand.

                    Pretty famous for their chargers.

                    • FLICKIT on 19/09/2022 - 22:30

                      @MasterScythe: Funny, I went for a browse, after a quick scan though "LiFePO4 100ah cell" results I ended up on their store because they're a familiar name (LL-600 Li-ion charger sitting next to me here)… It probably is wise for me to go this way and just build a battery, nice little project also… (and it looks like they're an affiliate store so 20% cashback at times)

  • Price Jack on 19/09/2022 - 14:27
    +1

    Most of these cheap LiFePo4 batteries contain used (B or C grade) cells, so they basically match the BMS to what these cells are capable of and to a price point.

    No surprise they don't work in parallel very well (or if at all) and lose capacity relatively quickly. It's always a gamble with these cheapies.

    If they last a year or so for occasional use (like a camping fridge for a week or maybe 2 away), that's probably fine. But i'd never consider them useful for anything you need to rely on, like for off-grid home solar or long trips away.

    A-grade cells are worth the extra investment. I'd be more worried about that than what chargers to use.

  • FLICKIT on 20/09/2022 - 14:54

    For anyone wanting a cheapie DC to DC lithium charger for their vehicle, 20amp $120:
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/725820

    These dont auto-sense voltage, you need to connect up an ignition wire to activate them…

    • bamzero on 20/09/2022 - 17:22

      Another option is one of these for $145. 20A multi input, DC and MPPT solar charger.
      They'll auto sense voltage (off below 12.4V, on above 13V) or can wire to ignition for smart alternators. There are 30A and 40A models available too.

      (I don't actually have this one, but have the Matson MA21DCS which I think is the same thing (though comes prefitted with Andersons)

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