NRL Player Punished for Political Speech

Vote for Pedro on 15/09/2022 - 20:47
Last edited 16/09/2022 - 10:16

Caitlan Moran posted "Today's a good fkn day. uncle Luke [Combs] announces his tour and this dumb dog [the Queen] dies. Happy fkn Friday," on her Instagram last week before deleting the post.

Moran was given a one-match ban and fined 25 per cent of her salary, with the fine suspended for a year in lieu of a further breach of the NRL's Code of Conduct.

Is this an attack on free speech?

How do people feel about the suspension?

Edit: apologies. I think I just confused things by adding the free speech line

Poll Options

  • 472
    I support the suspension
  • 125
    I think the suspension is outrageous
Sports & Outdoors Rugby League

Comments

  • Hybroid on 15/09/2022 - 20:52
    +100

    There’s no free speech in Australia. That’s an American Constitution ideology.

    They believe she broke the Code of Conduct she agreed to withhold. Nothing to do with politics. I’m sure she can appeal if desired.

      • mbck on 15/09/2022 - 21:51
        +30
        1. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

        (a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;

        (b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

        Feel free to skip this bit in your spiel

          • mbck on 16/09/2022 - 18:26
            +12

            @GrueHunter: Er she signed a contract. It would have clauses to not negatively affect the reputation of the company. (1a). Ps, I find it funny you chose 1b (national security) instead lol.

            Hey she's an adult, I assume you too, so a contract is a contract. If you're not happy with a clause, it's within your right to not sign the contract. They didn't put a gun to her head. The private company has every right to defend itself from people doing/saying stupid things.

            Example, employee injuring someone, who's to blame? The private company. So it shows how much knowledge (or lack of) you have in this regard.

            I think it's you being careless and choosy about what you want, instead of actually looking at things objectively. It helps to force your pov. But it's clear as day to people with common sense.

            Ahwell, I've wasted enough time on this. You can keep going though.

          • us3rnam3tak3n on 16/09/2022 - 19:17
            +3

            @GrueHunter: Free speech is entirely a matter of consequences. You're free to compare a certain foreign leader to Winnie the Pooh right to his face if you feel that severe retribution is worthwhile. In the case at hand I believe the consequences were reasonable though.

            • hayne on 18/09/2022 - 02:38
              +1

              @us3rnam3tak3n: @gruehunter: are you factually correct in pointing Australia has a constitutionally and legally implied freedom of speech?

              Yes.

              Do the facts really matter to everyone downvoting you and arguing with you?

              Unfortunately it seems like the answer is not really.

            • SlavOz on 02/10/2022 - 11:48
              -2

              @us3rnam3tak3n:

              Free speech is entirely a matter of consequences

              Well, everything should be by that logic. You're free to marry whoever you want - were not a homophobic country. But there may be undesired "consequences" if you choose to marry someone of the same sex.

              It's not an attack on your liberty - it's just that actions comes with consequences and part of being an adult means you need to be prepared to face those consequences. Right?

              • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 12:24

                @SlavOz: Having to put up with closed minded bigots wasn't exactly the consequences I was talking about.

                • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 12:28

                  @us3rnam3tak3n: Tough shit mate. Actions come with consequences, remember? It's not bigotry, it's just people telling you how they feel about your lifestyle and exercising their right to not associate or endorse you.

                  Deal with it.

                  • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 12:41

                    @SlavOz: Jeez, you seem a bit sensitive about this issue. I guess loads of people are exercising their right to disassociate from you. Australia has moved on. Christianity is at all time lows and continues to fade.

                    • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 12:47

                      @us3rnam3tak3n: Who said anything about Christianity? Australia can do whatever it wants. I'm just saying there could be consequences to being gay, just like there could be consequences to speech or any other freedom that today's witch hunters want to surpress.

                      Works both ways mate.

                      • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 14:24

                        @SlavOz: The only people I've met who think you can choose to be gay have been religious types.

                        Choosing your words or actions is not comparable to being gay or Slavic. You've probably faced issues because of that and there should be consequences for those who choose to discriminate against you.

                        • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 14:47
                          -2

                          @us3rnam3tak3n: You can't choose to be gay, but waving your rainbow flag around at sexualised events aimed at little children is most certainly a choice. And it happens to be one they will be held accountable for when the cooky leftist religious types get out of government and stop protecting these groomers.

                          there should be consequences for those who choose to discriminate against you.

                          I would be ecstatic if you actually believed that, but unfortunately I'm a white Christian male (bonus for being unvaxxed). Any discrimination that occurs against me is either legally sanctioned or simply ignored by the media while the majority of brainwashed sheep cheer for it.

                          • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 18:00

                            @SlavOz: I agree with you that kids are better off not being exposed to overt sexuality but an understanding of how reproduction works, differing types of relationships that exist and how to recognise predatory behaviours are part of a healthy education. The flag thing is irrelevant though.

                            if you actually believed that

                            I do believe that. If you have an accent or a name that indicates a non anglo heritage, you've almost certainly been denied opportunities. Luckily for you, being male and white has probably limited that. I used to have a boss that would bin CVs if he couldn't pronounce the applicant's name. If the name sounded aboriginal, muslim or Indian - no chance.

                            • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 18:46

                              @us3rnam3tak3n:

                              differing types of relationships that exist

                              Sure, within reason. Otherwise you could make the case that we should also teach kids about kink relationships, open marriages, orgies, friends with benefits etc.

                              There has to be a line somewhere, and unfortunately the LGBT community does not do enough to present itself as child friendly or sexually responsible.

                              I used to have a boss that would bin CVs if he couldn't pronounce the applicant's name.

                              There are roles today which are literally published as "blacks/women only". I've personally been denied a promotion because the company had to fill the role with a minority.

                              boss that would bin CVs if he couldn't pronounce the applicant's name

                              I bet you the same boss wouldn't be able to pronounce a traditional Welsh, Serbian, Dutch, or German name. Works both ways. And being a White immigrant myself, I've certainly been held back by my name in this country.

                              • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 19:05

                                @SlavOz:

                                Sure, within reason

                                Agreed

                                the company had to fill the role with a minority… boss wouldn't be able to pronounce a traditional Welsh, Serbian…

                                This is why I gave you the example of my old boss. His was a blatant case of a common bias. Actually, I half agree with you here as well. Excluding groups of people based on sex or ethnicity will ensure the company misses the best talent. It's been happening forever and flipping the problem doesn't fix it. A change of attitude (wishful thinking) or blind applications might help.

                          • [Deactivated] on 03/10/2022 - 18:42

                            @SlavOz:

                            I'm a white Christian male

                            yes, you are a part of the demographic that holds the majority of power in the world, but still find ways to blame minorities for the world's problems.

                            • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 18:52

                              @[Deactivated]:

                              yes, you are a part of the demographic that holds the majority of power in the world,

                              No, I'm not an elite billionaire leftist. The Western establishment bombed my country when I was a kid.

                              A privileged member of power I am not..

                              • us3rnam3tak3n on 03/10/2022 - 19:08
                                +1

                                @SlavOz:

                                I'm not an elite billionaire leftist

                                Nobody said you were, but you're favoured and presumably well off because of that.

                              • [Deactivated] on 03/10/2022 - 20:01

                                @SlavOz:

                                The Western establishment bombed my country when I was a kid

                                so you're talking about the socialist federal republic of yugoslavia, or one of the former yugoslavian countries afterwards? in any case, what you call the "western establishment" was the right-wing conservative and corporate forces that have been controlling the US since reagan repealed enough anti-trust regulations to let corporate interests take over, which bombed yugoslavia to stop leftist ideas from spreading. you don't even know what you're arguing against.

                                elite billionaire leftist

                                this statement is an oxymoron.

                                  • [Deactivated] on 03/10/2022 - 20:41
                                    +1

                                    @SlavOz: good response. what else can you do when facts and historical evidence are against you?

                                    Any discrimination that occurs against me is… legally sanctioned

                                    ironic that every argument you make can be explained by the meme you shared. you've equated vaccine mandates with slavery before lmao, i mean come on. keep putting those sticks in the spokes slav.

                                    • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 22:05

                                      @[Deactivated]: You're right. Comparing vaccine mandates to slavery is a little distant. Vaccine mandates are more like forced medical procedures - another twisted tool used by the Nazis.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2022 - 10:44
        +1

        Said free speech laws relate to government. Not your employer. Fail.

        • GrueHunter on 17/09/2022 - 14:45
          +1

          Point to the part where I said anything different.

          Or if you need an easier out, point to which part of this statement is correct:

          There’s no free speech in Australia.

          • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2022 - 20:01
            -1

            @GrueHunter: There's no "Free speech" that protects people against their employer retaliating them against being a dumbass anywhere, not even in America.

            point to which part of this statement is correct:

            Would you like to talk about anything else completely irrelevant while we're here? Nuclear Fusion, perhaps?

            • SlavOz on 02/10/2022 - 11:51

              @[Deactivated]: Not entirely true. Your employer can't fire you for practising or expressing a religious belief or publicly saying that you're gay.

              What we have here is a case of someone being penalised by their employer for a form of discrimination that the government considers legal. Whether or not its moral - as many people are suggesting - is another matter entirely.

              • [Deactivated] on 02/10/2022 - 20:46

                @SlavOz: It is not discrimination. It is discretion.

    • SBOB on 15/09/2022 - 21:24
      +29

      There’s no free speech in Australia

      regardless, free speech laws relate to the government.
      A private business doesn't have to let their employees say whatever they want without any consequences (regardless of country… e.g. many states in the US can terminate employees for 0 reason if you want a US comparison)

        • FLICKIT on 15/09/2022 - 21:36
          +39

          Well, if a reporter, photographer, or the likes on the sidelines was throwing similar insults at her while she played, I'm sure she would expect the "company" (via their security people) to throw that person out causing an impact to their "livelihood", it's really no different, and quite fair and reasonable…

          • suzley on 16/09/2022 - 09:46

            @FLICKIT: As with Adam Goodes.

            • SlickMick on 16/09/2022 - 11:31
              -2

              @suzley: Because Caitlan Moran is a 13yo girl heckling the opposition

        • SBOB on 15/09/2022 - 21:39
          +10

          No, but my comment was pointing out its not related to any 'free speech' laws.

          Regardless, if you're a publicly facing person of a business, and you publicly post content that would be against a code of conduct for your business (or cause directly related bad publicity etc), I'm unsure how you'd expect there to be zero consequences to such actions.

          • Vote for Pedro on 15/09/2022 - 21:50
            -4

            @SBOB: So… was that a yes or a no?

            • SBOB on 15/09/2022 - 21:55
              +9

              @Vote for Pedro: neither.
              Anyone that answers such a broad question with a simple yes or no clearly doesn't understand context or reality
              That, or 42.

              But as for "Is this an attack on free speech?"
              No, suspending a NRLW player for a single round (whose only played 2 games anyway) for breaching code of conduct rules is not an "attack on free speech".

              • Vote for Pedro on 15/09/2022 - 22:01

                @SBOB: I’m trying to understand what you are saying. Not trying to trick you or corner you.

                So a company can and should be able to penalise people for private speech that is unrelated to their employment, based on that companies opinion on that private speech?

                • SBOB on 15/09/2022 - 22:06
                  +11

                  @Vote for Pedro:

                  private speech

                  Is a Twitter post private speech? Seems pretty public to me.

                  Regardless, my comment is in no way vague. If you don't understand the point or position of the statement, additional words won't assist you.

                • RMBC on 16/09/2022 - 10:32
                  +5

                  @Vote for Pedro: A private company can not compel speech, but the reality os that actions have consequences, and people seem to forget that. Further, no doubt there was a contract between the parties, freely signed by both, agreeing that if there were actions which caused damage, negative publicity, or similar, or were deemed to do so, then penalties could be applied.

                  As a representative of a business, and party to a contract, this is what can happen. Its big business, and big money. There is no compulsion, just two parties agreeing to act in a manner. If you choose to break the contract, there are penalties

        • trustnoone on 15/09/2022 - 22:12
          +3

          Eh its a bit more complicated then that unfortunately. In one way this looks like a person saying things in their personal life and being punished for it. Honestly I'm not a huge fan of it, but this afaik is legal (I'm not a lawyer) and I think even federal government has fired people who posted things against what they feel/agree of.

          https://www.smh.com.au/national/public-servant-loses-fight-o…

          At the same time, I do get it from other points. When I see someone who is outright racist/sexist or abusive lose their job for beign that way. It feels like it makes sense.

          Its also more complicated because her job likely only exists with these rules in place. NRL wants to sponsor/support/whatever people that come off wholesome/postive/etc and those that support (financially the NRL may have their agreements also). And thus as part of their contract or agreement they have that are part of it. And thats what she's signed for, likely because NRL knows that when you become a sports person its not just how you are on the field but also how you are portrayed off it and how they reflect on the NRL overall.

        • Canberralad92 on 16/09/2022 - 17:44
          +3

          Yes. You can find a new job if you can't control yourself from publicly talking shit from a platform where you are easily identifiable.

          • whatwasherproblem on 16/09/2022 - 18:18

            @Canberralad92: Yep, said exactly what I was going to say, with a stress on the latter part of your sentence there.

            You can find a new job if you can't control yourself from publicly talking shit from a platform where you are easily identifiable.

            I don't know why this concept seems to elude most people (of younger generations especially). If you don't want <your name here> to face consequences in their IRL life for funposts made on make-believe Internet platforms, then the easy solution is that <your name here> didn't say it. 'Some faceless Internet rando with no obvious relation to <your name here> but that magically shares all of your innermost thoughts and beliefs' did.

        • irony on 16/09/2022 - 19:54

          Where were you when Israel Folau was sacked?
          (reading below maybe you also support him, in whaich case I can support your consistency)

          • Vote for Pedro on 16/09/2022 - 20:05
            +1

            @irony: To be clear, I agree that employees need to comply with their organisations policies or they suffer the consequences.

            What I’m suggesting is the defence of izzy here and in the media compared to the condemnation of moran from those same groups is a little hypocritical

    • afah0447 on 16/09/2022 - 11:00

      We don't have a Bill of Rights either. The King can walk into Australia and claim it all back.

    • Scantu on 16/09/2022 - 16:21
      +2

      American Constitution ideology

      I mean, it's what separates a society from the apes, just the Americans have actually managed to do it properly

    • Gnosh on 16/09/2022 - 16:40
      +1

      /thread

      • Kangal on 18/09/2022 - 15:15

        PS: she's really living up to her (sur)name.

    • Gyr on 17/09/2022 - 19:30

      Just because America was smart enough to codify it in their constitution doesn't mean that it doesn't exist as a principle.

      • SlavOz on 03/10/2022 - 12:54

        lol there's no such thing as an implied right or "principle". Majority of Australians are so stupid to have fallen for word salads like that.

        The whole purpose of codifying rights is so the government can't screw you over by taking them away whenever they want. Instead, our pollies tell us that we don't need rights because "we promise to never oppress you, just take our word for it".

        That's no different to saying "we don't need a fire exit in this building. We promise that we'll never start any fires!"

        The last 3 years are proof of this. Since COVID, police have been given power to stop you from doing anything at their sole discretion. So your human rights basically come down to whether Constable Jones is having a shit day or not..

    • arcticmonkey on 18/09/2022 - 18:44

      American? South American or North American?

  • Benoffie on 15/09/2022 - 20:54
    +39

    It's not free speech. They have a Code of Conduct that they agree to as part of their contract. Same with many workplaces.
    Key factors are usually nothing disreputable, disrespectful, suggesting of a political position, conflict of interest, unethical etc.
    If they dont like it, they can quit and play footy at their local club.
    Oh no wait, even local leagues have media clauses in player registration….

  • FLICKIT on 15/09/2022 - 21:03
    +56

    There would be outrage if anyone threw around the term "dumb dog" in relation to her, so fair's fair, she shouldn't be throwing it around either… It's nothing to do with "free speech" IMO, just common decency..

      • FLICKIT on 15/09/2022 - 22:18
        +3

        I had to Google what he said, I'm not a sports follower:
        Folau was sacked for saying "hell awaits" gay people, after previously being warned over his social media posts.

        Was that said in "private" or posted publicly on social media?

        I don't know the full story so I cant really make an informed comment about it, but, in this day and age of "not hating on people for the way they are", public figures probably shouldn't be spreading hate and discrimination…

        Public figures need to be mindful of how much influence they have over kids and the general public, hate is contagious

          • FLICKIT on 15/09/2022 - 22:28
            +5

            @Vote for Pedro: I noticed the "Caitlan Moran" story in the news the other day and thought to myself "she should know better"…

              • FLICKIT on 15/09/2022 - 22:36
                +12

                @Vote for Pedro: lol, I dont have a "dumb dog" in this fight, you threw this out there, I'm just voicing my opinion…

                People just need to show some class, especially when they're a potential role model..

          • cookie2 on 16/09/2022 - 07:36
            +4

            @Vote for Pedro: "hell awaits" would be a the belief had, not an insult, but a fact that the person believes so i don't think it's the same as calling someone names and speaking in that way about someone that has just passed and that some are mourning. One is an attack, the other is a religious belief.

            • Jolakot on 17/09/2022 - 01:17
              +7

              @cookie2: Publically shared religious beliefs aren't any less scruitinable than regular beliefs, hiding hate speech behind 'muh religion' is like hiding an elaphant behind a tree

            • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2022 - 10:48
              +4

              @cookie2: Vanishingly few people give a shit about your religion in 2022, and the number is declining. It is no longer accepted as a reason to be a (profanity). Cope.

              Said asshats have repeatedly proven they are quite happy to refuse to change without some force applied. Force will be applied.

          • ripesashimi on 19/09/2022 - 00:19

            @Vote for Pedro: Who's Folau and why should I know him?

        • SlavOz on 02/10/2022 - 11:54

          hate is contagious

          lol the hate that Folau received from the general public and the media far outweighed any supposed hate he spread by quoting a bible passage.

          Somehow it's always "hateful" when other people do it, but the response seems to always justifies the means for the cancel culture.

  • SBOB on 15/09/2022 - 21:19
    +26

    play stupid games, win stupid prizes….

  • peppet on 15/09/2022 - 21:31
    +1

    Was she punished for hating on the queen or using bad language? I think anyone should be able to express their dislike for anyone 'incharge' of our country & people. I'm no fan of the queen but it sounds reasonable if it was the bad language

    • macrocephalic on 16/09/2022 - 15:14
      +13

      I suspect she was punished for taking delight in the death of someone (who many people liked).

      It's ok to not like someone. It's ok to say that you don't like someone, and give reasons. It's even ok to suggest that this event might be a catalyst for change. It's not ok to celebrate the death of a beloved public figure for the purpose of outraging others - and when you're a public figure then your employer will use their employment clauses to punish you for it.

  • pegaxs on 15/09/2022 - 21:37
    +11

    It’s not about “free speech” as it was the NRL (not the police) sanctioning her as it would be covered in her contract (something about not bringing the game/club into disrepute) It’s a breech of contract not a “freedumb of speech” issue.

    Freedumb of speech issues are what you have in the UK where 3 people were arrested by the police for making remarks about the Queen and Prince Andrew.

    Lol @ the negger. You need to look up what free speech is, champ.

    • SnakeCasablanca on 16/09/2022 - 11:48
      +6

      Whoa. Misread your last line. Thought you were about to be suspended for hate speech!

      • OZKap on 17/09/2022 - 07:04
        +7

        "people who annoy you"

    • SlavOz on 02/10/2022 - 11:59

      Don't you think there's a worthwhile discussion when employers band together to stop people from criticising the government? That's as close as possible as you can get to the definition of fascism.

      The fact that Australia (supposedly) values free speech means we as a people want the country to be a place where ideas are shared, distributed, and discussed without unfair duress. When employers band together to stop that from happening, it warrants a discussion on why and how unelected corporate shills are allowed to shape our culture and moral codes.

      I mean, you could also make the case that anti-discrimination laws only apply the government, so why shouldn't employers be allowed to follow their own hiring practices? Why is is that free speech is the only law that doesn't apply to employers, yet every single other one does?

  • Xetrok on 15/09/2022 - 22:08
    +13

    As role models they should be upholding a positive image (for the club, sport and themselves) when in or coversing in the public domain.
    100% reasonable.

    • sharkyoz on 16/09/2022 - 08:18
      +4

      exactly. how can earn you respect from people as an aboriginal when your slagging off cultural leaders?
      you want respect for your culture but give no respect in return
      the hard work a lot of her people put in has just been flushed down the toilet

      • Vote for Pedro on 16/09/2022 - 08:45
        -5

        Isn’t it amazing that Liberal politicians could stand in front of signs calling Julia Gillard ‘Bob Browns B*tch’ and when people complained they were called snowflakes.

        That’s pretty offensive, wouldn’t you agree?

        • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2022 - 10:49
          +8

          You know that being a persistent devils advocate in every single thread makes you look effete, not refined, right?

    • SlavOz on 02/10/2022 - 12:03
      -1

      Nothing more positive and inspiring towards our children than an adult criticising their ruling leaders.

      That very action is the cornerstone of what separates the West from every other society. In the Middle East, you'll get publicly stoned for doing that. In North Korea, it's prison or a death penalty.

      In the West, you lose your job, your income, and every effort is made to starve you to death.

      Yet we claim that we are "better" and more "free" than these places. Yeah right. The West is just a mob mentality of witch hunts and fascism with makeup and eye-liner to hide the defects.

  • brendanm on 15/09/2022 - 22:19
    +19

    No idea, but she sounds like a massive bogan.

    Why does the AFL do media training better than the NRL.

    Also, why did you have to state in the title that the player is indigenous? What does that have to do with anything?

    • SF3 on 16/09/2022 - 00:24
      +7

      Also, why did you have to state in the title that the player is indigenous?

      Creates polarisation and inferring to a negative stereotype. e.g Road accidents on the news has to say it was a WRX that was involved and there are times when nothing about the brand / model is mentioned.

      • CocaKoala on 17/09/2022 - 13:11

        it was a WRX that was involved

        "high powered rally car involved in a crash" - look at the details and some drunk bogan rear ended his 98 falcondore into a WRX parked on the side of the road.

    • Kayrhcp on 16/09/2022 - 08:10
      +7

      It’s relevant it adds context to her beef with the queen.

  • spackbace on 15/09/2022 - 22:31
    +13

    I know my employer and head office have big things to say about how you act when you're representing the company, and sports people would have similar written in their contracts, especially to do with media.

    This sorta stuff has been going on for decades (sports people say something controversial, get banned/fired), what's so special about this person? Or is it coz they're not white…?

      • spackbace on 15/09/2022 - 23:05
        +5

        That's all you took from it huh?

        • Vote for Pedro on 16/09/2022 - 08:06
          -7

          That was your key point. Can’t see what else you could take from your words. Wouldn’t want to misquote you.

    • morse on 16/09/2022 - 02:58
      +4

      what's so special about this person? Or is it coz they're not white…?

      Uhhh…. She did get banned and fined. So it seems that she is being treated the same as anyone who did this. And just like others who have faced similar some people think it’s fair and others don’t. Doesn’t seem like there is any special treatment.

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