Medical Centre No Longer Bulk Billing - Requiring Copay

random12 on 20/08/2022 - 21:18
Last edited 20/08/2022 - 21:19

I know there have been new articles and doctors whinging about the medicare care rebate not being raised for ever.

My local medical centre just announced that they are moving to a copay system. Now its going to cost $80 for a consult, and medicare rebate is $39.75, so the person pays $40 out of pocket.

The doctors claim they are going broke by just taking the current $39.75. I don't think that is the case. But even if it is, in what world does someone go from claiming to be going broke to doubling their revenue.

Health & Beauty

Comments

    • SF3 on 20/08/2022 - 23:10

      Do you find the when copay/gap to be paid by the patient, people who visit are those that really need it and appreciate it more?

      • Quantumcat on 21/08/2022 - 00:50
        +3

        People see the doctor when they need it, you only take an hour (or more, if they're running really late) out of your workday if you need it, not just for the fun of it. Paying won't change this, except that vulnerable people will have to wait longer to get appointments at bulk billing practices or will have to travel further and will miss out on routine or preventative care. Will be business as usual for people who can afford to pay.

      • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 11:25
        +3

        I am very lucky to have a patient base who is super appreciative and I never get "time wasters". I am not sure if private billing changes that.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2022 - 07:59
          +2

          Your patients might stop seeing you at first when you change to copay, but they will come back when they realise they won't get the same high quality care in a bulk billing clinic.

          This is what happened to me after my GP of 10 years changed to private billing a few months ago. I thought I'd vote with my feet and went to a bulk billing clinic instead, but it only took me two visits to realise it was a mistake. I am now back to my first GP and happy to pay for high quality care.

    • foxmulder on 21/08/2022 - 00:07
      +1

      Genuine question: When a medical centre moved to non bulk billing, how do you think the overall profitability of the clinic change? Assuming patient visits are less.

      • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 11:29
        +5

        It can be the difference between closing down the clinic to making a sustainable income. In my case, it made no difference to my patient visits and the vast majority of my patients who I used to bulk bill were more then happy to pay because they know in that 20 minutes I give the best care I can possibly do.

        • JaneSong on 21/08/2022 - 14:06
          -1

          WTF, just socialise the doctors.

          They should get paid one salary just like police officers and fire fighters.

          • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 16:08
            +2

            @JaneSong: Already the amount of people doing general practice is dropping significantly, if your idea came to fruition, why on earth would anyone do general practice?

            • May4th on 21/08/2022 - 16:15
              +5

              @eldudebrothers: because all drs should study and work themselves to death for free i guess. they shouldnt dare to be paid for their trouble because of the grey hippo oath or something or rather?

              • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 16:29
                +4

                @May4th: My years from 14-30 were pretty much a combination of endless work and study. Internship, residency and registrar training were the most intense years of my life. The sacrifice was worth it though, I love my job.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2022 - 02:10

            @JaneSong: Probably quite the pay bump for them, at least until the pressure starts to increase efficiency by cutting care.

    • Clear on 21/08/2022 - 00:46
      +1

      Just saying but if your GP clinic is an MD site, tell them you're going to Best Practice and they'll give you a very significant discount in licensing. Certainly helps reduce the costs down if it's a larger practice.

      • fleetfeather on 21/08/2022 - 15:39
        +1

        Having used both as an end user (not as a GP), BP absolutely shits on MD too.

        • Clear on 21/08/2022 - 16:17
          -1

          Yeah I work with both everyday on the technical side and BP is the best for anything. My only complaint is database access requires an NDA, while with MD it's an open book.

          Any practice managers reading will want to jump ship soon. MD is owned by Telstra Health 🤮 I remember them paying everyone to use Argus and once the cheque was received everyone went back to Healthlink.

      • kiitos on 22/08/2022 - 15:43

        What does this mean?

        • Clear on 23/08/2022 - 19:02
          +1

          Medical software. There's two major products that do the practice management, billing, patient records and more. Medical Director Clinical & Pracsoft and Best Practice Premier.

          MD used to be the best but after many buyouts (even being Chinese owned once), failed.products (MD Helix in the cloud) and other stupid decisions like paying millions to be eligible to enter the UK and then being rejected to mass staff lay offs. Now they're owned by Telstra Health and they're a joke.

          BP on the other hand has market share, is an up to date/flexible product, cheap and just outright better.

          • Zondor on 24/08/2022 - 09:12

            @Clear: Zedmed is pretty good these days, it used to be abit buggy but it does the job now and doesn't need you to manually update every station like BP all the time.

            • Clear on 24/08/2022 - 09:20

              @Zondor: I don't know anyone that still uses Zedmed. BP updates can be automated anyway. MD installers on the other hand cannot.

              • Zondor on 25/08/2022 - 10:24

                @Clear: Zedmed is still pretty used in SA. Supported a bunch. From memory the drug updates are automated but the full versions aren't and are still released semi-regularly.

                • Clear on 25/08/2022 - 10:37
                  +1

                  @Zondor: I haven't got much experience with practices in SA but I have to say SA Pathology and their IT are really competent. A lot of tests like screening for down's syndrome goes through them.

                  BP is good for drug updates as they can be installed on the SQL server and pushed out to all the clients automatically. Only in the latest version have they added automatic updates. MD has had automatic updates forever.

    • Mokr on 21/08/2022 - 06:38
      +1

      The reality is there is a doctor shortage and many practices will pay good enough money to get a doctor.

      Now it's not 250 k but it is good enough.

      Gp practices are private business and you need to hustle to make it.

    • AustriaBargain on 22/08/2022 - 19:20
      +2

      Do you think states should be helping pay for clinics that hire GPs?

      • eldudebrothers on 22/08/2022 - 19:26
        +2

        No, we don't want any money from the state. I wan't YOUR rebate to be increased that covers the cost of your consult.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2022 - 21:22
        -4

        We both see through their lies. They want more money but no strings attached to it.

        See the comment reply by eldudebrothers to your post…

        Why don't they accept the funding that was set aside for them during one of the previous elections? Oh right, ideology… Remember the extra payment for better health outcomes? That was struck down even though such system in the NHS works wonders.

        It is because it makes doctors perform rather than just making their list of patients longer. A good doctor should not have a long patient list. It means they are not curing enough people fast enough, given all other factors stay constant.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2022 - 02:16
          +2

          A good doctor should not have a long patient list. It means they are not curing enough people fast enough, given all other factors stay constant.

          If they kill all their patients or drive them away they’ll have a small list, if they keep them alive and happy they’ll have a long list and probably have to close to new patients to keep waiting times for appointments reasonable for existing patients.

          But this explains your poor view of GPs, you’ve been picking the worst ones.

          Most things people see GPs for aren’t necessarily curable by anyone, just treatable. Unless they discovered a cure for mortality no one has told me about.

    • Ti-au on 23/08/2022 - 06:03

      Don't worry - people can get 1 less lego set or cheaper graphics card.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/08/2022 - 22:11
    +8

    In 2014 the Medicare rebate was more or less capped thus for almost a decade medical centers have been absorbing inflation, cost of rising wages etc

    i know for a fact the rest excessive costs in PPE and staff wages due to min-wage laws rising pushing a few local medical centers to charge a 'gap' most of the ones around me the gap is 20-40 bucks.

    i do not blame them one they are businesses, they need to make money but unless the government does something all this will do is flood the hospital system. Albo talked a big game pre-election to fund the health system e got a budget coming up soon lets see if he gets on it…..

    personally i'd like to see more doctors/Allied health/Nursing people in Politics to push for a better health system and better funding

    i will say this i awhile ago there was a push for work places to pay for the medical costs of workers going to the doctor when sick with a cold to get a medical cert as the worker just needs rest but the work place demands proof then they should be liable for the cost i'd be happy if they brought that in

    • cookie2 on 21/08/2022 - 07:21
      +2

      That last point you make is a great idea. Workplaces would have more of a reason to push ppl not to use their sick days tho. I just think fwa need to clearly define sufficient proof for all workplaces and all personal leave circumstances as a statutory declaration. I have to organise telehealth appointments for carers certificates when I'm caring for a close family member in hospital etc.

  • Kiwimedic on 20/08/2022 - 22:19
    +12

    I’m late in the medical training pipeline with the intention to become a GP in the very near future.

    I have always found it interesting that people baulk at the cost of a GP consult but are happy to pay the exorbitant price for a plumber or tradesperson. The cost of your coffee, petrol, steak, daycare, general cost of living rises pretty regularly…..

    You are (well should be) paying for the experience, qualification, accessibility, knowledge and a metric $&;: load of the most intense education you can fathom. The Medicare rebate hasn’t changed significantly for a long time, a lot of other things in life have however.

    Yes I get that there is an expectation to be able to access quality and appropriate healthcare, like most things, this also needs to be compensated appropriately (like any profession really). If it’s not, why would somebody to really want enter the training pipeline?

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/08/2022 - 22:21
      +15

      I agree with you but - the government 'forces' a Medicare levy and surcharge on tax payers they do not force a plumber, trades person tax on people.

      the real issue is the government subsides the private insurance sector which is a waste of money and that should go into bulk billing clinics and public health care funding.

      • Kiwimedic on 20/08/2022 - 22:32
        +1

        I agree with you to a point. It’s a topsy turvy system. Imagine however that we are like a country like the US where healthcare is not accessible, universal and subsidised. Is it worth the 2% of your wage to know this is subsidised?

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/08/2022 - 22:35
          +6

          worth the 2% of your wage to know this is funded

          i got no issue paying the Medicare levy, i do have an issue that i avoid a Medicare surcharge by having private health insurance that is mostly a junk policy but i as an individual will do what is more tax effective for myself.

          the issue is the government shouldn't be giving tax breaks to those who have private health insurance

          • Ahyao17 on 22/08/2022 - 11:07
            +1

            @Trying2SaveABuck: I think the government should give tax breaks to those who take good hospital cover policies but not junk policies.

            The private sector provides relief to the public system so there should be incentives for those that can afford private health to take it up.
            If they drop the incentive and people stop subscribing private health insurance, then the burden of public system will massively increase.

            The waiting list for elective surgeries are quite long in the public system. Imaging people getting rid of their private health insurance and joining the public waiting list. Your one year wait for knee replacement will become 18months or 2 years. The cost for the decrease mobility and potential injury chance etc would often outweigh the cos private health insurance if you can get your surgery 1 year earlier.

            Junk policies simply takes the money that is going to tax to private insurance pockets while provide nothing of value in return.

      • randomvis on 22/08/2022 - 20:30
        +1

        …and you get that, in your $39 rebate and any time you go to hospital.

        you know it costs about $1200+ / day per occupied bed even without medical care— some people spend months in there.

    • dumdum2 on 20/08/2022 - 22:41
      +4

      There's no cost in this society that anyone is happy to pay lol. You'd have to be deaf not to hear people whinge about petrol or daycare.

      • Kiwimedic on 20/08/2022 - 22:53

        Definitely not deaf. I still pay for petrol and daycare, imagine if your GP appt cost fluctuated as much.

    • plmko on 21/08/2022 - 00:41
      -2

      I have always found it interesting that people baulk at the cost of a GP consult but are happy to pay the exorbitant price for a plumber or tradesperson

      What's wrong with Plumbers or tradespeople? You think they're not worth their time?

      The difference is people are under the illusion that a Government agency like Medicare is suppose to afford the costs and they've been condition by it. The anger on copayments will be temporary. Give it some years and eventually no one will care.

      • srhardy on 21/08/2022 - 09:50
        +2

        its not just co-payments, its the fact you have to pay in full and then claim back the money (they can only process bulkbilled payments) as I understand it.

        Its all need streamlining!

        • Clear on 21/08/2022 - 16:26

          Yes Medicare Easyclaim. Then at the end of the week or whenever the practice sends the claims in bulk to Medicare for payment. Plus if you use the wrong item number or the wrong wording with the correct item numbers they'll be rejected. So they don't even get their money instantly.

          When Medicare Web Services was rolled out in March-August many practices lost the ability to send those for weeks/months. Imagine being unable to get money from Medicare and pay your doctors.

    • morse on 21/08/2022 - 03:46
      +8

      I think the thing here is that people have an expectation that essential healthcare should be provided by the government through our taxes at no or low cost to the person. I don’t actually think this is an unrealistic expectation. That’s why people are less willing to pay for this over other things.

      Realistically the Medicare rebate needs to go up for this to happen.

      To make it less costly for the government there needs to be less stupid reasons to need to see a doctor. e.g. my kid needs a medical certificate to return to daycare after conjunctivitis, even though we’d had him home and it’s cleared up. Dr doesn’t mind, bulk bills it, and laughs at the stupid rules. He made $39 in 5 mins, but the gov spent $39 on something that didn’t need to happen.

      Same with repeat medication, regular tests for certain conditions. Obviously the person needs to check in with the dr at some intervals, but perhaps there’s some way of this happening in a more streamlined fashion to make it cheaper for the government so they can redirect that money to increasing the rebate.

      The other thing would be scope of practice for prescribing and test ordering. Some things are pretty routine but to get the subsidy or even access it at all it needs to be ordered by a dr.

      Another example I broke my little toe. I was pretty sure I had and how to look after it but wanted confirmation via X-ray. one could argue based on presentation the fracture could have been assumed and no imaging was necessary. However doc actually didn’t believe it was broken (I did I felt it happen). Anyway I had two bulk billed GP appointments, one to order the test and one to receive results. Surely a radiographer could take a clinical history for something routine like this and order the test themselves all bulk billed at the same cost as the X-ray. Then the Dr speculated about whether I needed to get tested for osteoporosis since I’d recently had a baby and he thought my bones shouldn’t break that easily, which would have cost even more to the government (given that I’d seen how it happened I was pretty sure it was the force applied not my dodgy bones so I shut this down).

      Whilst I think there’s cost and medical risks associated with increasing the prescribing rights of pharmacists. Some rationalisation here could also save on unnecessary GP appointments.

      • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 11:39
        +2

        I completely agree with you, its difficult when patients are forced to do silly bureaucratic tasks such a clearance certficate. However, the cost here is not just the diagnostic "yep its all clear" but the liability the GP takes because if the doctor is wrong and there is a outbreak, we will get the blame and it is extremely stressful and expensive.

        • dangerdanger on 22/08/2022 - 15:27

          Yep. Things would be cheaper if patients "promised" to not sue if something was missed. 🤣 Less tests ordered. Defensive medicine is sadly needed in our society

          • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2022 - 20:13

            @dangerdanger: From what I’ve seen they tend to sue every medical professional that’s ever seen them when something goes wrong, even the GP who spotted the thing everyone else missed! Just a fishing expedition by no win no pay lawyers who create mountains of paperwork so they can justify taking almost all the money when they finally settle for the one specialist that actually f*ed up.

            Meanwhile if you’re retired and a radiologist misses a large but treatable cancer that then spreads before it’s found, resulting in a decades early premature death, you’re basically out of luck because retired people are basically valueless under the law.

            On the other had a GP orders too many tests or prescribes too much they’re threatened with de-registration.

    • cookie2 on 21/08/2022 - 07:25
      -2

      I don't bawlk at it, I just don't agree with it. I understand the rebate freeze etc and gps deserve to be paid well for their professional…but as an aspiring GP do you not believe that bulk billing allows free medical access to all, no matter their economic status? And does the removal or difficulty in accessing free medical care, not concern you?

      • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 11:41
        +11

        It is not upto the private business to risk bankruptcy and lose the family house to pay for what the government should be paying. This is not a battle between the GP and patient, its between the patient and the government.

        • cookie2 on 21/08/2022 - 15:19
          -1

          My questions still stand unanswered but sometimes no answer is still an answer.

          • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 16:15
            +2

            @cookie2: Let me explain it better, general practice does not get any money from the government. Also GP's are contractors, we are our business. We get money from you and then you get a rebate. Currently the rebate has been frozen for over a decade and has not kept with inflation. 'Bulk billing' is when the cost of the consult is the same as the rebate. However, because I take my time with patients and the best care that I can do, if I charged the same cost of the medicare rebate, after numerous costs, I would barely make a profit and would probably make more money working in maccas. I would need to see many patients an hour to make a livable profit and to be honest, I would hate my job.

            • dangerdanger on 22/08/2022 - 15:29
              +6

              @eldudebrothers: People still think GPs are public servants on public salaries, or perhaps even martyrs to work for free

            • Ponsonby on 23/08/2022 - 15:29

              @eldudebrothers: While it is very clear that Medicare rebates are inadequate and need a substantial increase, there ARE in fact some other payments that the government makes direct to practices that form part of their income - https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/types-practice-incentiv…

              An option that is discussed from time to time is to increase these practice payments substantially to take the focus off the Medicare rebates as the primary source of income - however, this shift would move us closer to UK NHS financing system - an outcome on which the profession and the community is divided

          • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2022 - 20:51
            -2

            @cookie2: Lawyers do pro-bono. There is no reason why doctors cannot opt to do so with a portion of their time. It might mean they drive one less fancy car, but at least two blog style posts here mention they did not go into medicine to earn money. I now see their real intentions and true colours showing…

            Even then that time is not real pro-bono as they get a medicare rebate… So it is difficult to compare the two professions.

            • dangerdanger on 23/08/2022 - 18:01
              +1

              @[Deactivated]:

              Lawyers do pro-bono

              But no one forces them to.

              Everyone can also work pro-bono. So can you, so can Albanese. So can farmers (give away their produce for free). So can miners (give away their minerals for free).

              But everyone can also choose NOT to work pro-bono and get paid.

      • zzchatom on 22/08/2022 - 06:02
        +2

        There’s always a free option, you just have to wait in the hospital for your turn, or you can pony up and pay a GP, people take for-granted too much free stuff from this country and expect to be spoon feed everything.

      • Ahyao17 on 22/08/2022 - 11:14
        +4

        I think you are over generalising it.

        Many non-bulk billing clinics will bulk bill pensioners, kids and people in disadvantage. You can always ask the doctor for bulk billing if you have financial hardship. Most doctors will have no issues doing this. So the poor and disadvantaged are looked after.

        Instead of blaming doctors who are absorbing the increased cost we should be lobbying the government to increase medicare rebates to match inflation so bulk billing clinics can survive and give better quality care. Doctors don't like to see more patients with less time spent per patient. More room for error and mistakes.

    • BargainBenno on 21/08/2022 - 12:32
      +4

      The difference is i fork out $3000 a year in medicare levy to pay for doctor visits. Its an expectation that i pay a small amount to see the doctor. The gp need to lobby the government to increase the rebate not slug the public for the 80 dollars. If i was already psying 3000 a year for plumbing insurance i also would baulk at the cost of the plumber.

      • May4th on 21/08/2022 - 14:27
        +9

        actually it's up to you to lobby the government for higher rebates. It's YOUR rebate. and less than 10% of the levy you pay goes to primary care. Do you ask woolworths to lobby the government to give you milk and eggs for free? Basic sustenance is an universal right after all

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2022 - 20:54

          That is a great way to palm everything off to the lobbyists and lawyers.

          The same thing they said about the pandemic… What people do not realise is that the pandemic was political in nature and no court case could have succeeded if they knew about the underlying law. The organisations involved were just burning money to gain publicity, but that was not a bad thing.

      • dangerdanger on 22/08/2022 - 12:24
        +3

        Your medicare levy doesn't go to any specific Dr. It goes to 'health' including the useless govt administrators / other people's medications etc.

      • Nucleus Acumbens on 25/12/2022 - 00:28

        But you're paying $3,000 for all your potential medical needs in the public system(or insurance as you put it) not just for the GP. Word on the street is that a hospital bed costs $1000 a day. The powers that be have to save a bit for that in case you need it.

        How would it be if you needed to go to hospital and you were refused because you'd spent all of your contributions in other areas including your GP?

  • thatonethere on 20/08/2022 - 22:25
    +7

    You'll find medical centres when they start out - or take over a medical centre that is failing - will do 100% bulk bill to build up the patient list. Then they start to chip away:

    First it is 18 yo plus no longer bulk bill, weekends no bulk bill, then 12 yo, then no bulk bill at all.

    • BargainBenno on 21/08/2022 - 12:32
      +1

      Thats happened in my medical centre.

  • SF3 on 20/08/2022 - 22:50
    +5

    Seems like GPs way to workaround being underpaid.

  • hasselbladsnapper on 20/08/2022 - 22:51
    +3

    I understand the doctors plight, but I have a monthly blood test for an INR - Blood thinning medication. I have to see the Dr IF I wish to get the result in 24 hours, it's effectivly a 5min consult. IF I wish to look at the test result on the Government Medical record site, I am unable to see the results for 7 day's by which time the result is useless in balancing my meds intake.

    This is pure madness, my Dr is quite happy for me to change the dose as I think best, as she thinks I actually understand the effect better than her. I am lucky, she bulk bills me for my monthly test visit, however IF I was able to see my online results the next day I would only need to see her around 4 times a year rather than 12!.

    The system is stuffed for US and the GP's , just waiting for Airbus Albo to sort out this plan ASAP!

    • BargainBenno on 21/08/2022 - 12:34
      +4

      Good luck with Albo. He still has no idea about the system. Never has, never wants to and never will.

    • AusGP on 21/08/2022 - 13:35
      +2

      Hi hasselbladsnapper, are you in a rural area? I've not dosed warfarin for years (since hospital days). Most labs will ring you with your INR and provide dosing advice if it's done for dosing purposes (need to be ordered as such).

      • hasselbladsnapper on 24/08/2022 - 17:27

        Hello AusGP, I live in metro Adelaide, and have asked the Testing Lab - IMVS to email me the INR results at the same time as my GP. The GP sent them a letter too asking for me to have the test results at the same time as her - No Luck!. I also called them - NO, I asked at the lab shopfront, the staff were OK with requesting for me to be given the results. Again Head Office, ignored request - so it was a no.

        My Dr & myself are amazed, but it's to this day a NO,NO,NO, how's that for sense or service, and all the needed to do was add my email address.!!

    • Loopholio on 21/08/2022 - 22:46
      +1

      Can you not get results via SMS? QML do this so I assumed all other labs did the same.

  • Benoffie on 20/08/2022 - 23:11
    +5

    Lucky you that you've had bulk billing for so long g that this is something to complain about in 2022.

    I've been copaying since I can remember. Well over 25 years. No alternative in my area.

    At least now the Medicare rebate is instant unlike the old days….

  • Islund on 21/08/2022 - 00:34
    +5

    The best use of 5 minutes for $80 was with an escort.

    • BargainBenno on 21/08/2022 - 12:35

      And a high class one at that for 5 minutes of her / his time.

  • plmko on 21/08/2022 - 00:39
    -3

    Meh, it's just $40

    • srhardy on 21/08/2022 - 09:51
      +5

      If its just you its $40… family of 4 gets sick it adds up faster than tax penaltys!

  • morse on 21/08/2022 - 02:52
    +1

    There’s lots of things that could be going on here. The practice could have changed ownership, and therefore have another business model. The current business model maybe running at a loss and therefore the owners (new or otherwise) might need to completely change to stop the business from going bust. There are also some centres that run a bulk billing model when starting up to establish a customer base and then put up the price. I agree, it’s a big change. It will be interesting to see if they succeed. Just remember the docs are likely not seeing an 100% increase in pay - they may not be getting a pay rise at all.

  • jazoom on 21/08/2022 - 06:38

    But even if it is, in what world does someone go from claiming to be going broke to doubling their revenue.

    It's not doubling revenue. Most of a bulk billing GP's billings are from other item numbers like health care plans etc. It's a silly system, but that's how Medicare has it set up.

  • reactor-au on 21/08/2022 - 07:41

    I must be doing something wrong, the practice I go to has been charging a 35$ gap since at least 2019 (long before this became a news piece).
    There has been recent shrinkflation though, standard consult gone from 15min to only 10min.

  • juzza87 on 21/08/2022 - 08:03
    +4

    Why was the Medicare rebate for GPs frozen in the first place? GPs costs will continue to rise due to inflation, at the same time everyone who's paying the 2% levy is earning more and paying more tax. If it's not going to GPs then where is the money going?

    • BargainBenno on 21/08/2022 - 12:36
      +1

      Blame labor for that!

      • JaneSong on 21/08/2022 - 14:09
        +1

        Yeah, they should have socialised and paid all GPs a flat salary instead, just like police officers and firefighters.

        The Labor Party was not bold enough to make reforms when they were needed.

        • May4th on 21/08/2022 - 14:30
          +4

          i know many GPs who would be quite happy to be on a salary with superannuation/leave entitlements etc in fact other specialists in hospitals are on salaries except this would cost the government a lot money

    • Ponsonby on 23/08/2022 - 15:35

      The 2% levy raises a fraction of the health care budget - the balance comes from general taxation.

  • GordonD on 21/08/2022 - 08:38
    +7

    I wouldn't mind paying more for going to a GP. If I could find one that was competent.

    I don't know what other peoples' experience of the medical profession is, but mine is that they are a lot less useful and effective than they have convinced themselves they are. Sure, the thing they do is very valuable, but only if they do it effectively.

    In recent years I've had 4 significant medical problems. In the first I was given wrong advice about how I could take a medication. The second was caused by a defective medication. The media reported there were problems all over the city from it, all the medicos involved denied any knowledge of it. In the case of the third I was told to continue taking a medication that was causing a serious side effect, and it was the pharmacist filling out the prescription repeat that told me to stop taking it immediately. And in the fourth case the GP was completely unaware of one of the most common side effects of a medication. And in every case I've seen what my medical record says, and in not one of them has the medical profession accepted any responsibility. If your considerable education has convinced of your own infallibility, you don't learn. And you feel that you have to give a patient an answer, even if you don't actually know what the right answer is. Make a guess, you don't suffer from you getting it wrong - doctors get judged by other doctors - their patients do. And then you can treat them for that.

    I've tried all the GPs in my area, and am now forced to go back to ones I've tried before and walked away from unhappy.

    • Myone888 on 21/08/2022 - 09:16
      +2

      I had the same bad experience with myhealth Westfield Doncaster. Doctor was incompetent, was busy facing typing on computer, mis diagnose me and held my medical issue for 2 months before sending me to specialist care. I ask him if mine was his first case, doc said yes and he was unremoseful!

    • brendanm on 21/08/2022 - 10:20
      +3

      100% agree, I'm happy to pay for quality, but where do you find it?

      • Pete10001 on 21/08/2022 - 17:01
        +2

        Spot on. Whether they bulk bill or not, it is extremely difficult to find quality care. Unfortunately most of the truly caring, competent professionals will not take on any new patients. Word gets around pretty quickly that Dr X is the one to see…

        • Loopholio on 21/08/2022 - 22:53

          ^this. My doctor hasn't been taking on any new patients for many years now. The only way I'll change doctors is when one of us dies. The dude is hella fit and over 70 so.. I'll go before they do. :)

    • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2022 - 10:49
      -1

      And in the fourth case the GP was completely unaware of one of the most common side effects of a medication.

      So true. It is worse for GPs that were trained overseas.

      This is why Doctor Google is so important. AI diagnosis are very powerful and it is important to keep people honest. AI will tell you all the side effects that it deems important.

      • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 12:51
        +1

        As a GP who has a massive interest in AI, we are at least a decade off. While we have good language models and the use of transformers has been a game changer, most of what I do is not in a textbook. Every case is unique and the art of taking a history is extremely complex as what the patient believes is relevant information to the diagnosis vs what the doctor does not overlaps

    • kaleidoscope on 21/08/2022 - 20:50
      +1

      Yeap agree on this. Have run into really ignorant gps and the good ones are always booked out for days ahead and some have stopped seeing new patients 🤷‍♂️ (what is this? some kind of subscription system)

  • Joey2scoops on 21/08/2022 - 08:50
    +5

    When you pay your doctor you are paying for the entire support environment including the small army of admin people, nurses in the treatment area, equipment and supplies etc. I am not surprised that gaps are emerging. At the clinic I go to only health card holders and kids under 16 are bulk billed.

    The new government needs to fix the problems that ScoMo and his mates created here.

    • Pete10001 on 21/08/2022 - 17:09

      At the massive bulk billing centre down the road there are a couple of receptionists and a large cohort of Doctors with one or two nurses. I don't think that constitutes a small army of admin people. Each Doctor generally only sees a patient for 5-10 minutes. Google reviews suggest that most of the patients receive inadequate care. Anyhow, so each Doctor generates between $300-$400 per hour. One only needs to look in the carpark to see how tough these professionals are doing it. If the Medicare rebate were doubled, then teachers and others paid from the public purse would also have justification for a large pay rise, all of which would help to drive inflation sky high.

      • AusGP on 21/08/2022 - 17:11
        +1

        That's the problem with churn and burn clinics. They're "free" and no disincentive for certain doctors to bill in this fashion.

        This is why a price signal is a must I feel unfortunately…

      • randomvis on 22/08/2022 - 21:13

        Out of interest, what cars do you think GP's should drive?

        My dentist drives a lambo btw.

        • May4th on 23/08/2022 - 10:44

          my hairdresser drives a GLE. just saying

        • Zondor on 25/08/2022 - 14:02

          Dentist's get mad cash, Most get 70% of what they invoice for.

    • Joey2scoops on 23/08/2022 - 09:18

      Not a churn and burn clinic, this is a regular practice. They have about 8 people in the office, maybe 5 working at any one time plus about another 6 nurses or lesser qualified medical staff who provide service in the treatment room. I get that the lower end of clinic that used to be the bulk billing quickie clinic are trying to keep their overheads down and consultations minimal. If you pay peanuts … well, you know the rest.

  • Myone888 on 21/08/2022 - 09:12
    -6

    The consult is only 15 mins thus $40 is fair. There shud not be any gap pmt. Also procedures shud change like blood test report/any reports can go directly to patient first, otherwise gaps will cost Us dearly.

    • srhardy on 21/08/2022 - 09:53
      +1

      My VET (who's cheap) charges $80 for 10min ….

  • spydaboi on 21/08/2022 - 10:28
    +1

    My GP clinic still bulk bills, I am an age pensioner and don't pay any copayment or gap. I only require renewal of scripts once every 6 months. Takes less than 5 minutes, Dr does no other checks, asks no significant question. I have noticed on my medicare claims history that the clinic has changed how the claim from medicare. They have started claiming code 00036 Level C consultation $76.95 for the last 2 visits 6 months apart. All prior visits were code 00023 Level B consultations at $39.10. Maximum 5 minutes and I provide him with the written list of my medications, he simply generates and signs the script. The difference between the levels B and C are time bands only. That's how my gp clinic is doing it

    • random12 on 21/08/2022 - 11:17
      +6

      Lol you got yourself a dodgy doc.

      Claiming the extended consult rebate when it's just printing scripts.

      • Pete10001 on 21/08/2022 - 17:10
        +2

        Probably just the tip of the iceberg that we know as Medicare

    • eldudebrothers on 21/08/2022 - 11:49
      +2

      Level C is 20 minutes and above. Also I rarely ever spend 5 minutes with a patient. My just a script appointments are: check if the script is appropriate, see if there are alternatives, do a physical checkup, check vitals, ask about diet, exercise, smoking, alcohol etc…. check mental health, go through a system check, vaccinations, get to know my patient, occupational history etc…. People service their cars yearly, people are much more complex and need one twice a year. I drill this into my junior doctors as my mantra is that we have great technology to prevent disease but ok technology to fix it

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