Bathroom Leak in New Build - What to Do?

So we moved into our custom built house by small boutique builder about a year ago. Context being, this was NOT a cheap volume build. Our bathroom has floor to ceiling Italian tiles, double shower with dual shower head options (hand held shower head from wall and ceiling shower rose) and in-wall toilet.

About 7 weeks ago we noticed the carpet outside our upstairs bathroom entry door was wet. Contacted the builder. Multiple visits from the plumber later they still couldn’t identify the source of the leak but they thought it was the toilet. They cut a giant hole in the hallway plaster wall that backs onto the bathroom in order to look inside the toilet (in wall toilet…nightmare) but still could see nothing. They re-installed the toilet, replaced a few washers and eventually the water stopped coming out on the carpet….but then it had moved!

Suddenly it was coming out from under the silicone that joins the wall to the floor near the shower. This is approximately 1.5 meters from the original carpet wet patch.

Every time the shower runs probably 1/4 cup of water coming out.

The grout lines on multiple areas on the floor near the shower and toilet look wet like there is water stuck behind the tiles.

Their plan appears to be that they will re-grout and re-silicone the whole shower.

Does this sound sensible? Obviously they don’t want to take out tiles and re-do tiling given the cost but I’m nervous the leak is from something else and there is going to be water permanently stuck behind my tiles causing rot.

What should I push for here?

UPDATE:

Thanks for all the replies everyone. It’s been really helpful to hear different stories and think about all the points I need to consider.

The latest update is this: we have run the shower non stop straight into the drain and no water came out of the silicon. This makes us think that it probably IS an issue with the grouting/silicone and a hole somewhere in it. There is no water on the roof of the ground floor below which I would expect would occur if the waterproofing membrane was broken. So my thinking is that the water is going through a gap in the grout/silicone, running behind a bunch of tiles and then escaping outside the shower through the silicone at a point of least resistance.

The builder is insisting on going ahead with re-grouting and new silicone and refusing to do anything else at this point.

I am probably going to employ at my own expense an independent leak expert to do a report as I’m nervous about the risk of unseen water damage/mould in the timber behind the tiles. Once I have this report I’m hoping it will give me more leverage with the builder…

Comments

  • +13

    Tell them you want to know where this water is coming from. It's coming from somewhere. The cost of fixing bad work shouldn't be your problem to worry about. Are you a plumber, just let them take apart your shower if that's what they want to do. You're worried about rot but you don't want them to take apart your shower so they can access behind the tiles because they will have to pay someone to do it? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

  • +32

    Their plan appears to be that they will re-grout and re-silicone the whole shower.

    Doesn't sound right, if they water proofed (sealant) the whole bathroom, water shouldn't leave the bathroom area at all.

    • -1

      Has to go somewhere?

      • +9

        flood the bathroom? :)

        It's meant to be a water proof skin if all the walls and floors have been seal of the waterproof agent.

        Maybe cracks have formed that can't be seen, or waterprooting wasn't done that well.

        • Mine went out the bathroom door

          • +1

            @John Kimble: How to waterproof your bathroom floor from Bunnings.

            OP should watch this, to see what no water should have leak out… unless the bathroom has been flooded… Then OP might have a fish tank…

            • @SF3: 00:40 "gonna fill the cracks with silly cone".

            • +1

              @SF3: I didn't realise there is a layer of material in the membrane, I thought it was just the liquid.

            • +1

              @SF3: Interesting, thanks for sharing.

          • +1

            @John Kimble:

            Mine went out the bathroom door

            Yes, when waterproofing is done correctly :)

            Your problem sounds like the tiles were not sloping into the bathroom drain…

      • +5

        Water takes the path of least resistance. Just like me.

    • Yes I was thinking straight before as just want my damn bathroom back but yes, the water leakage should not be happening full stop.

    • +17

      Exactly what SF3 says. Re-grouting and new silicone isn't going to contain the leak if it happens again.
      The only way to do this is to strip off all the tiles back down to bare surface walls and start with new waterproofing membrane (I recommend at least 3 coats) before re-tiling and then silicone and grouting.
      Builder obviously doesn't want to do that because it is expensive (and disruptive for you, the owner), but it is the only way this leak is going to be stopped.

  • +4

    Italian tiles

    Nice flex.

    Did you see the waterproofing stage?

    • +1

      It was being built through covid so can’t remember. Site visits were few and far between. Obviously we had a building surveyor by law but it sounds like based on other comments, they definitely f-Ed up the waterproofing.

      • +3

        certifier should have photos of pre water proofing and post water proofing

    • +4

      He paid for overpriced italian tiles AND got a shit quality finish

      What a score!

      • +11

        The Italian Job.

      • Italian tiles made in China most likely…

        • +1

          Made in milanchong, china

  • +15

    When a professional says it could be this or that, it means they are clueless as to what is going on, get a different plumber who knows how to determine where a leak comes from is probably your first best move.

    If they cannot even determine the cause, how are they going to provide a fix, what they are trying to do is apply a fix to the symptoms, not necessarily the cause and you will be back to square one.

    • +4

      Yes exactly. I can’t risk a Band-Aid solution. I need them to identify and fix the actual issue.

      • +17

        The fix is them gutting it and redoing the waterproofing.

    • When your car leaks oil on the ground, do you expect the mechanc to tell you exactly which pipe or part is leaking oil without opening the bonnet?

    • +22

      Yes probably but I worked my ass off for it. I’m genuinely trying to give context as to the quality/cost - I just wouldn’t expect this shitty job but there you go…

      • +17

        Wasn’t intended as an insult, sorry, been binging Community again.

        • +8

          No worries. Appreciate your reply mate :)

      • -8

        Did you?

        Were you working for minimum wage with a baby on the way?

        That’s hard work.

        • +3

          So the only people who can do hard work are people on minimum wage with a baby? If you are above minimum wage and have no baby then it's not possible to work hard?

  • +53

    I would suggest using a different bathroom/ensuite so you can l,et that bathroom dry out. Then run the shower and fill a few buckets. After doing this is the water issue occuring?

    This will confirm whether the issue is a defect in the waterproof membrane or if the leak is actually in the wall/pipes.
    i.e. if you still get leaking when just filling the buckets then the leaks in the wall….

    Hope that makes sense.

    My gut feel would be that the water proof membrane is faulty. You can patch and repair waterproof membranes, if done properly the tiles should be reusable.

    Good luck

    • +2

      Yes what you say makes a LOT of sense. Thank you.

    • +2

      Yep, this is a good idea. And if you stop using the bathroom and it still leaks it's before the taps (though this doesn't sound like the case).

    • +3

      This </thread>

  • +8

    How about run your shower into a bucket (or more realistically divert to basin with hose so you can run for realistic time) and see if you still get the 1/4 cup. Then you will know if their solution will work.

    Edit: too slow - already suggested. Good luck.

  • Run the shower into a bucket and go from there.

    Edit: too late

    • +3

      OP also used a bucket wheb they thought it was the toilet..

  • +11

    Their plan appears to be that they will re-grout and re-silicone the whole shower.

    That's a short term dodgy fix, throwing a band-aid over the issue, it wont last… The waterproof membrane needs fixing…

    • +2

      Thanks. The picture has become clear. Sigh…not looking forward to this battle.

  • +13

    waterproofing layer is shot, the only way to fix it, is to rip it out and start again. Anything else is just a 'bandaid' till the warranty runs out.

    • +7

      This 100%. They stuffed the waterproofing membrane up. It only takes a pin prick hole for a leak to form. They are going to have to strip the entire shower out and redo it.

    • +3

      Thanks for the comment mate. Yes this sounds like the issue and I can’t risk a Band-Aid solution. Will be a shit show getting them to actually fix it but I’ll take it on. Still have other stuff I’m fighting them on too. Don’t build a house people!

    • Isn't the latest leak coming into the bathroom? So potentially not through the waterproof membrane?

      • First leak appeared on carpet outside entry door to bathroom.

        Second leak appeared inside bathroom coming out of silicone joining floor to the wall - located in area outside of the shower.

  • +8

    Definitely a knock down rebuild job

  • +4

    Definitely poor waterproofing of the bathroom. You should just get a site inspector and make them do a thorough report, someone that isnt associated with the builder. Definitely defects in your house. Goodluck.

    • +1

      When you say site inspector do you mean building surveyor?

      • +1

        My understanding is someone who comes and picks apart all the faults (that they can see or get to) so you can get them fixed while under warranty or whatever initial cover you have.

  • +6
    • Wow. Shocked.
      Thanks mate. Actually very helpful.

      • +1

        Talk to these guys to do an inspection if you are in Vic. Should help you determine the exact cause

        • Have you use these guys before? Thanks mate

    • +2

      I am shocked but not surprised… imagine paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house only to encounter that!

  • +1

    Agree you need to find the source of the leak, it could be from inside the wall in another location and the wateproofing is actually topping it from coming in.

    A friend of mine didn't know they had a leak until it started dripping down through the ceiling to the ground floor. Turned out there was leak in the wall and the whole area between the floors and downstairs celling was sodden. Major job to fix, they had to rip out a lot

    If they just patch the shower it could just push the problem somewhere else

    • Good point. This is a second story bathroom and no water signs on ceiling on ground floor (yet).

  • +3

    I had a leaky wall in a bathroom some years ago. It started about 3 years after the house was completed. Carpets in adjacent rooms becoming wet. After a lot of searching a builder cut holes in the gyprock walls until he found the leak.
    Turns out that a nail that had been used to fix the gyprock had also made a small hole in a bathroom copper pipe. The hole was 'self sealed' until the nail started to rust, and then the pipe started to leak. Once the hole was suitably patched, all was well again. However lots of remedial work required to repair the inspection holes in the gyprock.

    • Wow, yes this is my fear it’s some crazy thing like this. Given we’ve been in a year, a rusting nail could very well have caused it.

    • +3

      "Turns out that a nail that had been used to fix the gyprock had also made a small hole in a bathroom copper pipe. The hole was 'self sealed' until the nail started to rust, and then the pipe started to leak."

      have seen this many times, last one was 10 years after house was built and of course no trace of original builders to be found.

    • That brings up memories. Had the exact same thing at my place. It was some other material pipe but same jist, there was a stud nail piercing the pipe that ran up to the shower. So thankfully was only if it was used which it wasn't as there was another shower.

      Still, yeah the whole process and cost of the plumber then the patch up work afterwards is annoying.

  • +1

    Try the moisture checking device and see if that helps to find the dampness in wall or floor. And like someone here suggested get a detailed report done by authorised person and then ask the builder or warranty provider to fix it.

    • +1

      Where do I get a moisture checking device or who do I employ to do this? Thanks mate

      • +2

        They're super cheap. eBay should be fine. I had similar issues and found the source of my leak in 5 min! My plumber wanted to do 'destructive investigations' on everything.

      • +2

        Aldi have one for about $25.00👍

        • thanks mate. that's awesome.

    • Don't use the shower for a couple days. Take readings around the outside of the shower recess to get a baseline and then block the drain and flood the shower recess.

      If the moisture readings start rising then the waterproofing is almost certainly the culprit.

      Only proper solution is to rip up floor tiles and the first row or two of the wall tiling, then put in proper waterproofing.

      Should add, I've built two homes and both times the waterproofing was defective. Luckily I had insisted on inspecting prior to laying of tiles, so made them redo it. Waterproofing isn't rocket science, but plenty of the trades that do it are bottom feeders and so are the certifiers who are supposed to inspect it.

      • how did you inspect it/found it was defective?

        • I told the first builder upfront that I wanted to inspect the house prior to slab pour, prior to wall lining and prior to tiling. I took a family member that's in the building game with me (I'd also added them as an authorised representative on my contract before I signed it to prevent the builder playing games).

          Second build I also arranged with the builder to view at those stages. They also didn't have locked site fences up where I was on Qld so no worries gaining access and telling the builder when I saw the wrong thing done. All the relevant information is out there in the NCC, Aust Standards and manufacturer datasheets, so anyone with a somewhat technical background is capable of learning it if you want to put the effort in.

      • +1

        Thanks mate. You are a pro! That is so helpful

  • +1

    Yup. Definitely the waterproofing. If you want to, get a plumber to run a waterproofing test for a few $ hundred and then you can use that as proof the whole bathroom needs to be redone. Depending on your state, their workmanship should be covered for a period of time (eg in Qld it’s 7 years under QBCC)

    • Yes this might be a wise path for us to take. Going to speak to the builder today and say they can’t do a Band-Aid fix and they need to find the source.

  • Had a similar issue many years ago - turned out that the mortar under the tiles (to get falls etc) was not mixed correctly and was like sand - this was acting like a wick and drawing water from the shower floor to the hallway carpet.

    We first noticed when we found mushrooms growing in our new (2-3 months old) house at the entrance to the bath/shower.

    Sounds like this could be similar.

    • Wow. What a nightmare. I’m in the club now.

      Did your builder fix it?

      • Yeah, the builder ripped up the whole floor and did it properly.

    • +4

      There's another problem you've got. No waterstops.

      There should be 2 waterstops one at the shower and one at the door to prevent exactly your problem.

      Only fix is to rip up the bathroom and rewaterproof with the correct waterstops in place

      • Do you need to completely gut the bathroom?
        Or could you just do 1 wall or 1 floor?

        • Whole thing. If you do 1 wall or floor how do you join the old the the new? That's always going to be a failure point.

      • This is embarrassing to ask but What’s a water stop?

  • +5

    OP, as others have said, it sounds like a waterproofing issue.

    My wife has a new build townhouse that has had lots of defects that we've had to painstakingly get the builder back to repair properly. If you aren't satisfied with the builder's attempts (and I wouldn't be based on your explanation), you should get your own water leak detection report. Companies like Australian Leak Detection will use thermal imaging cameras to detect leaks if it works for the area of concern. You can then take this back to the builder to get them to fix

    If you have issues with the builder not wanting to fix the exact cause, of if they don't come to tend to the issue, lodge a complaint with your State's building authority.

    If you want to save money on the leak detection, you could always just lodge the complaint with the building authority but most will take a few months to get around to you and your builder has been coming around to look at the issue so I'd give them a chance at fixing it right first… it just sounds like you need that leak report to guide them properly. Any complaints submitted to your building authority will also be stronger if you take responsibility and get your own leak report done first. The building authority may still do their own leak test to reconfirm your leak report.

    Good luck! Hope the builder rectifies it properly.

    • Thanks mate for your helpful comment. I’m going to get a leak report done.

  • +12

    You need the the whole bathroom ripped out and rewaterproofed. Anything else is a half measure. Look up the requirements of the Australian standard and the new dbpa legislation.

    There should be complete waterproofing to the bathroom plus two waterstops - one at the shower and one at the door.

    If ANY water is getting out it's a serious failure.

    Everyone commenting about grout and other nonsense have either been scammed or had the wool pulled over the eyes.

    Complete. Bathroom. Redo.

    • +3

      Totally agree. Issues like this are so commonplace on modern builds. Silicon is a short term fix that doesn't address the underlying problem, but good luck getting the builder to rip it all out and start again! Frankly, people that insist on fancy items (in wall toilet cisterns etc) are just setting themselves up for problems down the road - guaranteed!

    • yep, good advice!

    • +1

      I’d totally missed your comment with the important point about the waterstops. Thanks. I’m realising how much worse this is.

  • +3

    Sorry to say you will need the entire bathroom floor to be ripped out and redone and shower area.

    Don't require the entire bathroom wall as it's not all waterproofed.

    This will need to be done else take to ombudsman.

    There is no small fix to this.

  • +3

    The key here is to find the cause of the problem. It's either a plumbing leak or a discharge leak from usage. From your description likely the latter because the former would be constant and effect cumulative. Looks like your proofing membrane is intact or the water leak will go through the flooring to the ceiling downstairs. If it's happening when you have a shower, then it looks like the grouting /sealing is compromised somwhere in the shower, water hit the membrane then spreading until the lowest level of the membrane which is the doorway. I assume it's a floor level walk in shower, not a base. Regrouting and sealing the shower may be the obvious solution for the leak but what about all the moisture that is currently stuck under the tiles locked in by the membrane. Eventually it will attack the glue and loosen the tiles. Which might actually be a good thing so you can dry everything out and and re-tile. I would pose this question to the builder. He may stop further leaking but what about residual water. It's not going to evaporate.

    I agree with the other post. Get your builder to agree to an expert leak detector to find the problem and the extent of the moisture under the bathroom floor. Then you know what fix and remediation is required. I would even offer to pay for the leak expert to test the builder's sincerity.

    Good luck.

  • We had something similar when our bathrooms were renovated. A year later we were seeing the skirting boards swelling on walls on the other side of two of the showers. Turned out it was the silicon that the tiler had used in the joins between the floor tiles and the wall tiles and the shower wall corners. We got one of the re-grouting companies to come in. They stripped out all the silicon between tiles in the shower and removed the grout. After the shower was fully re-grouted, no silicon at all there was no leaks any more. The grouting guy was saying he does more houses that are only a few years old than older houses because of the use of silicon in the tile joins.

    • +2

      Silicone is the correct product between floor and wall tiles.

      Silicone is waterproof, grout isn't.

      I can't say why grout fixed it, if anything, silicone will fix it where grout will leak.

      Having said that, without grout or silicone, the bathroom shouldn't leak as it's the waterproofing and the waterstops which should contain the water.

      Sorry to say, the grout is a band-aid solution.

  • -3

    So you don't get what U paid for going with a boutique builder? Any other issues?

  • I’m no expert but I know water will destroy everything (eventually) if not dealt with properly.

    Wish you all the best in resolving it with the builder.

    Good luck Op.

  • +2

    Had a leak in my bathroom 10 years after completion. My builder has since shut up shop and moved to QLD.
    My insurance wouldn't cover it as it was a building fault according to them.
    8k quote to repair which meant they were going to strip back to the bare walls and start again.
    I regrouted the shower and used a really good sealing agent to buy me another year or two. No leaks and its been about 6 months.

    • A little bit of knowhow and elbowgrease goes a long way; people often underestimate themselves. You probably did a better job than a B grade tradie would have charged you an arm and both legs for…

      • The break down for the 8k quote was amazing. So much for so little work.
        I'm going to wait till we get our granny flat up and running and I will do it myself.

  • I just don't get the point of the waterproofing membrane. If the wall and floor tiles separate, surely the membrane breaks as well.
    We have a 3-4mm gap open up between the floor and wall tiles, has been re-siliconed a few times but its only temporary and water is still getting out on occasion, looks like it will be a complete shower rebuild to fix. Floor tiles in the shower may look good but I think a shower base is a lot safer with the built in lip.

    • +1

      Waterpoofing membrane is essential.

      How/why did the wall and floor move 3-4mm? That's massive. If it moves by that much, it will leak regardless if it's a tiled or polymarble showerbase.

      The waterstop should contain all the water inside the shower, however, most leaks from inside to outside the shower (if the waterstop under the shower is installed correctly) is due to the shower screen.

      I'm happy to install a polymarble showerbase in my investment property but for my own home only will install a tiled shower base as it looks so much better.

    • +1

      I agree that waterproofing membrane is highly overrated (in its capacity to do the required job!) The shower base is a far more sensible option.

  • +3

    Pay for an independent water leak expert to do a trace and give the report to the builder to fix. Most plumbing consultants that do VCAT and VBA disputes can do it - just Google one that you are comfortable with. We had a long running leak issue at our old place. Nothing the builder did fixed it, but the report got us to the root cause. Good luck.

  • +4

    We also went with a small boutique builder and further paid for an architect to oversee the build for us.
    Now we have a mess on our hands that we've been dealing with for years.
    We've learnt a lot along the way which unfortunately is too late for us - hopefully the following info might help you.

    Get your house inspected by a very good Building Inspector. Great if you can find one that specializes in your state's tribunals and building regulations.
    Hopefully you will have a report and a stronger case for rectification of issues and clear instructions on what needs to be done.
    On the other hand, you might find many more problems and non-compliance with regulations than you are aware of.

    Unfortunately for us, we trusted too much - the problems are much worse as a result and we're stuck with significant repair costs and many more years of dealing with this.

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