Bathroom Leak in New Build - What to Do?

GourmetFoodie on 16/08/2022 - 20:40
Last edited 21/08/2022 - 13:03

So we moved into our custom built house by small boutique builder about a year ago. Context being, this was NOT a cheap volume build. Our bathroom has floor to ceiling Italian tiles, double shower with dual shower head options (hand held shower head from wall and ceiling shower rose) and in-wall toilet.

About 7 weeks ago we noticed the carpet outside our upstairs bathroom entry door was wet. Contacted the builder. Multiple visits from the plumber later they still couldn’t identify the source of the leak but they thought it was the toilet. They cut a giant hole in the hallway plaster wall that backs onto the bathroom in order to look inside the toilet (in wall toilet…nightmare) but still could see nothing. They re-installed the toilet, replaced a few washers and eventually the water stopped coming out on the carpet….but then it had moved!

Suddenly it was coming out from under the silicone that joins the wall to the floor near the shower. This is approximately 1.5 meters from the original carpet wet patch.

Every time the shower runs probably 1/4 cup of water coming out.

The grout lines on multiple areas on the floor near the shower and toilet look wet like there is water stuck behind the tiles.

Their plan appears to be that they will re-grout and re-silicone the whole shower.

Does this sound sensible? Obviously they don’t want to take out tiles and re-do tiling given the cost but I’m nervous the leak is from something else and there is going to be water permanently stuck behind my tiles causing rot.

What should I push for here?

UPDATE:

Thanks for all the replies everyone. It’s been really helpful to hear different stories and think about all the points I need to consider.

The latest update is this: we have run the shower non stop straight into the drain and no water came out of the silicon. This makes us think that it probably IS an issue with the grouting/silicone and a hole somewhere in it. There is no water on the roof of the ground floor below which I would expect would occur if the waterproofing membrane was broken. So my thinking is that the water is going through a gap in the grout/silicone, running behind a bunch of tiles and then escaping outside the shower through the silicone at a point of least resistance.

The builder is insisting on going ahead with re-grouting and new silicone and refusing to do anything else at this point.

I am probably going to employ at my own expense an independent leak expert to do a report as I’m nervous about the risk of unseen water damage/mould in the timber behind the tiles. Once I have this report I’m hoping it will give me more leverage with the builder…

Home & Garden

Comments

    • Ghost47 on 17/08/2022 - 17:52
      +1

      What specific problems are you experiencing?

  • Punda on 17/08/2022 - 19:08
    -1

    Insurance job? Either by you or the builder.

  • kiwimex on 17/08/2022 - 20:07
    +8

    Ok…..This is how I test for shoer / plumbing leaks

    1) Stop using the shower, if the leak stops then it is directly related to using the shower and not an issue with the overall plumbing. Meaning if the area is constantly wet…generally a leaking pipe.
    2) Complete a pressure test on the pipe work from the mixers to the outlet, Put a pressure gauge on the outlet and pressurise the line. Then isolate the water and if the gauge drops you have a leak between the mixer and outlet…..that only leaks when the shower is in use. If there is no drop in the pressure gauge…no leak.
    3) Carry out a flood test of the shower tray, Get a couple of shopping bags one inside the other, and fill them half full with water, tie a knot in the bags and position them over the shower drain outlet. If it's a strip drain remove the stip and position over the outlet. This is just to stop the water flowing down the drain. Then proceed to fill the shower with water, as its filling monitor all areas for leaks. If you find water seeping out and the carpet getting wet etc them you have a waterproofing failure….!

    No amount of re grouting or silicone will solve this issue. The Waterproofing needs to be re-done.

    • quikchip on 19/08/2022 - 22:07

      For point 3, you can use a baloon.

    • UFO on 20/08/2022 - 00:30

      Excellent advice… especially the end bit. DO NOT allow the builder to regrout and silicone! That's just going to hide the problem underneath until after the defect period has finished.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2022 - 22:25
    +1

    I might add an idea for you to try. I recently had a similar situation. I found water running down the wall, from 2 sides of the room approx 1m apart at different times after showering. I ended up taking down part of the ceiling and ran the showers to look for the leak; however, nothing there.

    What I discovered (lightbulb moment) was that the water was leaking into the wall between the water tap cover and the wall. Part of the silicon was missing.

    Example: https://i.imgur.com/SZzeBDx.png

  • JonnySprockets on 17/08/2022 - 22:32
    +1

    This is very serious, don't let them get away with dodgy water proofing, will cost you a fortune to fix if you let it slide. Builders are going bust left right and centre, act now and act fast.

    We purchased a house a few years ago and found out after the fact that both bathrooms had little or no water proofing. 40k later we have two new bathrooms. These bath rooms were even signed off on by a building inspector. There was a single not in the building report that said, it may require further attention. Talk about a cop out! Anyway, We got an third party leak test, they used a dye to find the issues, and presented a detailed report. Water going straight through the tiles and into the sub floor. Watching the new water proofing going in, done correctly your bathroom is basically a canoe, its a big smelly job, but water is going no where except the waste. You can see why its skipped.

    • FittyFitty on 18/08/2022 - 10:07

      Well, I mean, waterproofing is one key part, the other one is not cutting corners on piping/hosing/crimping; if the leak is behind the wall/membrane, tappity tap tap, moists…

  • Petro23 on 18/08/2022 - 05:27
    +1

    This EXACT same thing happened to us in our expensive new build last year.
    Turns out the shower wasn't crimped, so the water from the shower was leaking into the wall, down the wall, and onto the waterproof membrane floor.
    Because it is waterproofed, the water has nowhere to go so runs between the slab and the tiles and goes into the adjacent room carpet.
    Another plumber from the same plumbing business noticed his colleague had not crimped the shower hose and so then crimped the shower.
    Over the 2 months that we didn't know what it was, the tiles showed white effluence but were ok once dried.
    We ended up having to re-carpet the entire master bedroom as it was moldy and because each carpet sample is slightly different colour.
    We also had to replace the plywood sides that hold the carpet together and we re-did the skirting in that area also.
    We had to get the tiler to cut out 2 of the large tiles in the shower and re-tile them once it had dried.
    We ended up having to back-charge the plumber about $3,500 which was just the replacement cost, and not our time including waiting.

    • jerjergege on 18/08/2022 - 11:19

      Your story may be the same situation, but the questions are:

      Did your builder help?

      Did you go to the plumber instead of builder etc?

      After you back-charged them did you actually get the money back?

      My experience with builders, they handball these issues to a maintenance contractor who says "not my job, i'm not the builder i'm here to fix items on defect list, and that wasn't on the list" and goes in circles when you go to builder this item hasn't been fixed.

    • kiitos on 18/08/2022 - 11:56

      What's crimping?

      • jlogic on 18/08/2022 - 17:07
        +2

        https://www.kennards.com.au/pipe-crimper-15mm-to-50mm.html

        Thats the tool they use to crimp.

        Instead of welds they crimp the joins. Inside the crimped joins is an o ring.

        The tool crimps to a particular pressure (not sure of the technical term)

        Had a plumber come over and I asked the same question.

        • kiitos on 18/08/2022 - 19:52

          Thanks! I thought pipes were only soldered.

    • GourmetFoodie on 18/08/2022 - 21:26

      Wow. Glad I’m not alone dealing with this BS!
      Thanks for sharing your story. Another aspect to investigate.

  • jinkhaos on 18/08/2022 - 11:02

    judging by what you're saying you have tiled showers (not polymarble etc). There may not be adequate falls / screed to the drain, they should have installed a waterstop at the shower and/or at the door. building surveyors normally ask for waterproofing certificates (in Vic we do). you can try the building surveyor too

    • jinkhaos on 18/08/2022 - 11:04

      if it has anything to do with waterproofing, it would have leaked in the ceiling below?

      • GourmetFoodie on 18/08/2022 - 21:27

        Yes no sign of water damage on roof in level below (yet). So maybe the water proofing is OK.

        • jinkhaos on 20/08/2022 - 06:41
          +1

          It’s unlikely to be an issue with waterproofing. Your shower has tiles walls and floors, and grout in between, the water gets through grout and travels between tiles and the waterproofing layer behind. The waterproofing runs into the shower drains so that the water eventually gets into the drain. But if there isn’t adequate falls, and you have a long consistent shower, the water is expands around the drain and travels further, which is why your builder is saying they will take out the grout and use silicone to contain the water within the shower. It is a temp fix as they should have used a water stop angle before they waterproofed you contain the water within

  • jerjergege on 18/08/2022 - 11:14
    +1

    IF the builder doesn't play ball, go to the VBA with freedom of information to get the certificate and plumbers contact details and go from there, I had to do this, bit of a wait though. Freedom of information takes a couple of months, they let the builder try to object to it if they have a valid reason, which usually builders don't.

    If you need an independant inspector, this is who I have personally used, Mark Newell.
    Can't share report as its being used in court.
    https://www.independentplumbinginspections.com.au/contact-us…

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:21
      +1

      Thanks for the super helpful comment. I may have to contact Mark. The battle with the builder has begun…

  • iamtheroot on 18/08/2022 - 14:02
    +2

    @GourmetFoodie I had the similar issue with my house / shower. I claimed AAMI insurance and they send qualified professionals to check it first. Good thing with this is you don't have to pay anything out of pocket ( exploratory charges are normally covered - best to check with Insurance). The issue was the shower knobs and the knob plate is placed on the tile joint ( it shouldn't be done this way as per industry standard / per plumber who came to check it ) and the builder/ plumber didn't do the silicon under the shower knobs properly. So when you shower some amount of water will flow between the joints into the shower knob base and inside the wall and to floors. Once it's silicon done under the knob + around the hot /cold knobs plates the problem stopped. Insurance didn't cover for the damages as it's still considered shower leak ( I had to fight back with no luck). Since my house is quiet old I couldn't take it with builder so in your case probably you can get a report from insurance and take that to Builder showing the issue to fix it up.

    Hope it helps

  • Dogs on 18/08/2022 - 16:07

    There is another way possibly to fix it. I did all my tiling in my house including the bathrooms. Everything went fine until I hit the bathroom floors as it’s hard to get the tile to line up on the floor especially on larger tiles. Anyway my floor is waterproof but I was not happy with the tile slope and lining up. After epoxying my garage floor with chips if I could do it again I would epoxy all my bathroom floors chamfering in the corners up the wall tiles about 50cm. If you go into hospitals they use vinyl on all the floors going up the walls. You can epoxy over existing tiles as long as they are dry and roughened up. You can get chips of all sorts of colours. Everything should be taken out of the bathroom but it’s not as big a job as removing all the tiles. I would speak to someone who does this the only problem the epoxy might flow to the drain until it starts to set. I would try to find the leak initially.The plumbing going into the tiles for hot and cold water should have been sealed with silastic, this is the first place I would look as a lot of water runs down the wall and it’s the easiest place to check.

    • spoonmugen on 18/08/2022 - 16:13

      what if the leak from a pipe that wasnt soldered/sealed properly? and not from water actually seeping through grout/tiles?

    • jellykingdom on 19/08/2022 - 08:21

      You can't epoxy on top of tiles, for the same reason you have to rough up your concrete before doing the concrete garage floor

  • drfuzzy on 18/08/2022 - 16:51

    The fact your fixtures are nice is mutually exclusive to the fact your waterproofing is shit.

  • Storm on 18/08/2022 - 17:43

    You should have a year to note defects. This is a major defect.

    1. The leak(s) need to be fixed. Could be from your shower hoses inside the wall (or their attachments), or elsewhere. Doesn't matter. Needs to be fixed before anything else is done. Take video/photo's.
    2. The builder needs to organise (or you organise and their insurance pays for it) a mould expert to check and make sure there is no mould in the walls or elsewhere. If there is, it needs to be tested, then remedied by the builder.
    3. Wherever there is water or mould damage, the builder has to repair under insurance. This includes paying for you to live somewhere else if you don't have another room to live in.

    For context:
    - our timber frame Passive House was built a year ago.
    - a few months in, we noticed water coming up UNDER the hybrid floorboards.
    - Builder investigated. Plumbing in shower wall and also under a sink was faulty. They got the plumber to repair. Room was dried as best we could (mainly from air)
    - Now, at the end of the year, they have cut us off from the bedroom and ensuite, and are demolishing it all. There is mould all over (not very high), and they will be replacing everything once the mould is sorted out (dry the rooms, treat the mould, replace some of the timber).
    ALL under insurance. The mould has to be totally gotten rid of, otherwise it will just breed in the walls etc.

    • GourmetFoodie on 18/08/2022 - 21:28

      Wow. I’m praying my hell doesn’t evolve to your hell! What a nightmare. Thanks for sharing though. I’m praying there is no mould now.

  • DiscoJango on 18/08/2022 - 21:25
    +1

    bad or no shower plumbing

    the water is basically dumping straight out of the shower and into your floor

    very bad

    just get them to come over, run the shower for 10 minutes and they will see for themselves

  • Christoshizz on 19/08/2022 - 00:05
    +2

    You need one of those building inspectors who has a camera that detects water and heat behind the walls.

    Like this guy

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/ChOftrPBCEl/?igshid=MDJmNzVkM…

    • Notrichandfamous on 20/08/2022 - 06:59
      +1

      I second this.
      https://www.siteinspections.com.au/

      • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:25

        Thanks mate, do you have any personal experience with this linked crowd?

        • Notrichandfamous on 28/08/2022 - 23:55
          +1

          Sorry for the late reply. No personal experience thankfully. I have followed him on social media for some time though and if I had the need would 100% hire his services. If you watch a few of his videos you’ll see what I mean.

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:24

      Yes I’m planning to get someone to do an independent check as the builder is not playing fair.

      Do you have my person experience with the Instagram guy?

  • Oz em on 19/08/2022 - 08:08
    +1

    My parents had this issue.
    It was regrouted, still had an issue so the builder had to pull up all the tiles and redo it. Issue is now solved.
    Theirs was the floor angle not going into the drain as mentioned by someone else.

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:26

      Interesting that seems to be a common issue. I think our slope is ok. There doesn’t seem to be water pooling materially but I will have a closer look.

  • BFOOT on 19/08/2022 - 09:43
    +2

    I recommend documenting & keeping records/log of everything. Email, phone calls, face to face chats etc, all of it. Just in case you have to go to VCAT or a legal option.
    We didn't but should have.
    Our leak was evident about a year after build when the MDF skirting started swelling. They removed the MDF & after every shower you could see the water pooling.
    They couldn't find it & we went back & forth with no results. In the end I duct taped all the grout & proved the leak stopped, confirming it was in the waterproofing.
    Their solution? Put on a coat of grout sealer & replace the skirting with hard wood. Cause if you can't see it it's fixed right? So mad, even still today.
    After about 7 years my wife started getting strangely sick, couldn't sleep, irrationally emotional etc. Looking into it, mould was a possible cause. We decided to cut a hole in the wall again to see & boy was it bad. The mould was all through the wall & the frame base plate was completely black & basically mush.
    The whole bathroom was demolished & rebuilt at our cost but the problem with mould is that once exposed the spores spread everywhere.
    In the end to try & get her better we decided to sell the house, both our cars, got rid of all our clothes & pretty much all our possessions & have been moving from rental to rental ever since trying to reduce her exposure. We are about to move hopefully for the second last time before building a new house.
    Now we've never been able to absolutely confirm the the mould was the cause of her issues because it's not medically recognised but there are about 5% of people who develop a severe mould sensitivity.
    It's been financially & mentally stressful & turned our lives up-side-down, all over a shitty waterproofing job.

    • GourmetFoodie on 19/08/2022 - 18:41

      Wow mate, I’m so sorry. Thank you for sharing. What a nightmare. I hope things improve for you soon.

  • epoch on 19/08/2022 - 09:53
    +1

    You should get an independent inspection done. A good inspector with something like a FLIR camera should be able to see the temperature change from water leakage and point someone at the right direction. Much better than somewhat randomly pulling apart a new house to find issues then hand the builder the bill.

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:26

      Thanks mate. This is likely to be our next step.

  • defro on 19/08/2022 - 11:27
    +1

    Currently experiencing similar issues with my bathroom. The wall behind the shower has discoloration in the plaster and the wood skirting is starting to bloat.

    The builders are coming back to fix stuff but it seems to be a bandaid fix, it appears to be a waterproofing issue.

    Builders are starting to do my head in, any issues they just do a quick bandaid fix obviously trying to buy time until the builders warranty ends.

    I know a building inspector is a good way to go but don't have the cash lying around at the moment, I'm thinking of getting a moisture detector such as:

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/crommelin-moisture-meter_p091107…

    So i can monitor this stuff.

    Even a thermal one like:
    https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/flir-tg165-x?var…

    My thoughts are, even if you spend $700 or so, at least you can definitely see if the issue has been resolved ans show evidence of water leakage.

    It seems the builder's tactic is just to do a cheap bandied fix to buy time until the builder's warranty runs out which at that point it's not their problem.

    Thoughts?

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:29

      Yes builders are a nightmare. To be fair it’s genuinely not always their fault as they are at the mercy of their trades and finding quality trades is tough plus they are always trying to manage cost to extract maximum profit. That being said, it’s absolute BS to be dealing with this kind of shit in any new build.

      Mate, in your situation hope my thread has been helpful. Someone mentioned Aldi having the water moisture detectors for $25! Worth a try…

  • RichardD on 19/08/2022 - 11:46
    +1

    Yep after these type of nightmares when they do a the waterproofing in bathroom I ask for 3 coats otherwise it will be a ripout later

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:30

      Live and learn….next build I’ll do so much differently. It was extra tough with Covid as very hard to go on site regularly.

  • Keeegs on 19/08/2022 - 15:55
    +1

    Pour some food dye down the drain when you're showering next, then you'll know if the leak is from drainage or supply. Then go from there lol

    Re-grouting is only assuming the water is leaking from shower area. What if it's not? Might be a leaky pipe joint

  • quikchip on 19/08/2022 - 22:24

    If the builder is answering calls and genuinely trying to solve the problem, allow them to do it. It's a trial and error process that'll take time. Imagine it turns out to be a small cheap fix that saves you and them from ripping the entire bathroom apart to redo waterproofing.
    What size tiles are they on the walls and floor? Have you paid the final progress payment?
    Ask for a waterproofing certificate. It should've been submitted to private certifier or council for OC.
    As others have mentioned, check if mixer in shower has been sealed.
    If waterproof membrane is pierced, they could pinpoint it by taking some gyprock out from hallway or room on other side of wall then only take 1 tile off to fix it.
    It'll be ok, just be patient and work with the builder so problem is solved and everyone is happy.

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:33

      Thanks for all your suggestions. Yes we are trying to work with them. They are refusing to pay an independent professional leak inspector which is making it hard. They are claiming it’s a gap in the grout or silicone but they have zero proof it is this.

      • Odin on 21/08/2022 - 21:27
        +1

        Gaps in grout are irrelevant.

        Underneath everything (tiles, grout, screed) is the waterproofing. If a tiny hole in the grout causes a leak then the waterproofing is (profanity) regardless. Might not even be there.

        Think of the waterproofing as a huge tub underneath everything in the bathroom. Everything in the bathroom is irrelevant to the waterproofing because the waterproofing is under it all.

  • UFO on 20/08/2022 - 00:24
    +2

    I haven't read all the posts but just to reply to your original post, the solution to re-grout and silicone doesn't solve the faulty waterproofing membrane underneath… it just hides it for a year or two.

    I wouldn't accept any solution that doesn't rip out everything to bare stud walls and starting over. Plumbing runs, gyprock, waterproofing… the lot.

    A brand new house should NOT have a leaking shower, and the builder is probably just trying to get you past the defect period by plugging the leak with silicone instead of actually repairing the fault (which is a major one).

    What's the other shower like? (I'm assuming there's at least two bathrooms)

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:35

      Yes….it’s going to be a battle. Do you think it really is the waterproofing membrane? Wouldn’t I see water on the roof in the ground story below if this was the case? The builder is trying to convince me it’s a gap in the grout/silicone and the water ran behind the tiles and came out at the closest exit point where the silicone/tiles ended which was the bathroom door/carpet leading in. Then the exit point merely moved closer once the water found a weak spot in the silicone…

      • UFO on 21/08/2022 - 10:29
        +1

        Without seeing it it's hard to be sure mate. I'd at bare minimum be conducting the tests as suggested above by a couple people. Replicate the leak after isolating the different areas it could be. My other concern is that as this leak has been going on for a while, I'd want the underlying timbers exposed and carpet areas lifted to see if any water damage/mould there. Only way to see check the structural timbers for that is to strip it all back. That's costly, and the builder is going to try and avoid that as hard as possible. I'd get a reputable independent report that shows concern about the mould/water damage concerns.

        Fixing the leak isn't the sole issue anymore. It's fixing the damage the leak caused. The builder will be pushing for the former only, but you really need to be concerned with the later as well.

        Good luck with it all.

        • GourmetFoodie on 21/08/2022 - 12:57
          +1

          Thanks mate. Your reply is really helpful. You’re spot on with your thoughts.

  • iseeyou1312 on 20/08/2022 - 02:36
    +1

    Context being, this was NOT a cheap volume build.

    Doesn't matter how much it cost, at the end of the day it was still built by Aussie tradesmen following completely unregulated building standards. Just be thankful it hasn't fallen down.

    • RefusdClassification on 20/08/2022 - 06:26
      +2

      Yes, in Australia everything is expensive, but expensive doesn't equal quality. It seems like Made in Germany and Made in Japan are the only guarantees of good quality.

      • iseeyou1312 on 20/08/2022 - 16:42

        German quality is mostly based around Wehraboo myths. Their products are unreliable and have short warranties (just like their tanks). Japanese and Korean are good though.

  • ripprind on 20/08/2022 - 05:56
    -1

    LMAO at "small boutique builder "
    I should start using that on my card 🤔

    • GourmetFoodie on 20/08/2022 - 20:36
      +1

      Mate, do you actually have a useful suggestion to my problem? Happy to take flak if you also include something helpful!

      • ripprind on 21/08/2022 - 15:29

        Sorry mate, dont take offence.
        I'm just here to talk shit. I got nothing useful to add that hasn't been said.

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