Real Estate Insist Rental Payments Need to Be Paid by 3rd Party

Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 02:23

Out of the last 4 real estate agents I've dealt with 2 of them have required that I pay using 3rd party rental payment processors. Currently Ray White are insisting I pay using Simple Rent. It really annoys me, as all of the fees fall on the renter. Here's part of an email I received after paying bond and 2 weeks rent:

Your bond payment was successful, it is now time to set up your schedule payment for:
Property Details: …
Lease Start: …
To finish securing this property you will need to pay the agreed upon rent in advance and return your signed lease. Please note, the lease for the property will be sent to you shortly in another email. Please click the link below to set up rent payment schedule.

The fees can be basically $10-20 when paying by card for rent or $1.65 when you set up a direct debit but if you don't have the money in the account at the time the direct debit comes out it's like a $15 fee. When I've spit the dummy and said "No, the RTA requires that you offer at least of the mentioned methods listed here: https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/starting-a-tenancy/rent-payments", they rebut with, yes you can either provide a bank cheque (fees for me anyway) or you can do a bank account deposit (can only be done in their physical bank) and is not able to be done with a bank transfer which means I need to take the time out of my day to visit their bank.

It's super annoying. Seriously, how is it not enforcable for me to just request a bank transfer as an option? In the last 3 properties I've rented, I've just set up a bank transfer the day after I get paid and I've always been ahead.

For example I had to pay rent by direct debit on this first rent payment after moving in, I set up one of my bank accounts and then mixed up my accounts meaning it failed the transfer (because I can't exactly log in to my bank and check scheduled transfers, I have to log in to the Simple Rent system and I couldn't see which bank it was trying to charge). This means $1.65 DD fee + ~$15 fee to pay by eftpos to catch up + ~$20 dishonour fee. I thought all of these dishonour fees were found to be illegal in Australian courts because they completely fail to reflect any work or issue caused on their end, is that wrong? This page for example mentions that a DD dishonour doesn't affect the charging company at all: https://www.paychoice.com.au/blog/direct-debit-dishonor-fees

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Comments

  • DarkOz on 03/07/2022 - 07:31
    +1

    What is the reason the bank account doesn’t allow a transfer and needs to be deposited at the branch?

    • randomusername2017 on 03/07/2022 - 07:56

      Lack of a unique payment reference system?

      • DarkOz on 03/07/2022 - 08:07

        That would be rare and even so it could be resolved by a follow up remittance advice email.

        • randomusername2017 on 03/07/2022 - 08:23

          Actually.. just reread it.. would assume there is some reference needed over the counter, and you'd already have the bsb/acc, so a transfer would look the same.

          • DarkOz on 03/07/2022 - 08:33

            @randomusername2017: I found out recently that deposits at the Westpac bank branch only allows 6/7 characters and it wouldn’t allow my 8 digit reference number to go through. Online transfers allow more reference details than that. I would be interested to know from OP the reason why transfers are not accepted.

            • dizzle on 03/07/2022 - 08:57
              +1

              @DarkOz: I would assume it's to prevent a situation where the tenant says it's paid, but doesn't appear in the REAs bank for a day or two. Bank transfers can still take a couple of business days, particularly if the due date falls on a weekend and it's paid on Friday. The old "the check's in the mail" system.

              • DarkOz on 03/07/2022 - 09:03

                @dizzle: That’s true and I understand that it’s a pia to deal with. We have these types of customers all the time and it’s very taxing on the accountant.

    • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 20:48

      This was roughly 6 six years ago but they only gave me details to do a deposit directly at the bank physically and not a BSB/ACC to transfer to. Intentionally to drive me to towards using their system.

      • DarkOz on 04/07/2022 - 08:58

        I think this is just an isolated case related to you as you had a default payment previously. This is probably why they insisted you to deposit in a bank branch because the deposit will be instant and thus easier for them to check.

        There is nothing preventing you to transfer into the same BSB and Account number. The difference is the transfer will take up 1 or 2 business days depending on the time of transfer.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 03/07/2022 - 08:14
    +1

    Pay your rent to the same bank account that you paid your bond and holding deposit.

  • CheapandUsed on 03/07/2022 - 08:50
    +5

    I think people are going to have to start putting the proposed rent as something like (edit:in the initial contract):
    "$### pw inclusive of any 3rd party fees the agent or it payment provider wish to charge."
    Or some variation of it.

    Perhaps those tenancy advocates in each state can provide some legal wording. Otherwise these agents and 3rd party payment providers are going to keep trying it on.

  • bohn on 03/07/2022 - 10:46
    +2

    You might like to read this https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/mandatory_fees_for_re…

    Complaint very similar to yours.

    Also:

    Ways rent can be paid (Approved ways as listed in the Act)
    * cash
    * cheque
    * deposit to a financial institution account (nominated by property manager/owner)
    * via EFTPOS
    * credit card
    * payroll deductions (or pension deduction)
    * any other method agreed on by the property manager/owner and the tenant (e.g. rent card)

    If the property manager/owner wants the tenant to pay by another method (e.g. rent card) they must inform the tenant of any costs (e.g. joining and processing fees) associated with that method and offer at least 2 other approved ways to pay the rent.

  • johndowy on 03/07/2022 - 11:26

    I don't see how a dishonour fee is illegal.

    You owe money. You don't have money. You get charged a fee.

    Seems reasonable to me.

    • Presence on 03/07/2022 - 12:21

      What does the "fee" cover though? It's really just a fine, and a blatant cash grab.

      It's a slippery slope to the bullshit overdraft fees in the US.

  • AustriaBargain on 03/07/2022 - 11:51
    +3

    Agents are getting lazy, they just want to avoid the admin costs of checking that rent was received to their bank account by traditional transfer.

    • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 20:49

      That's exactly my thoughts. I spoke to a friend who rented his place when he owned and Real Estate agents get 15%. I would assume their role is to make things easier between renters and owners, not to cause friction for their own benefit.

  • tonka on 03/07/2022 - 12:24
    +1

    So what are they charging a landlord commission for? This is supposed to be part of their service offering.

  • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 13:26
    -2

    Let's establish that the agent has provided a fee free option. OP has said he CBF doing it

    Let's establish again that the OP admitted to screwing up their finances, thereby triggering the administration fees that are openly stated. That's hardly the REA's fault.

    I hate people who bitch about $1.65 fee against a $400+ transaction when there are a multitude of options and some are free.

    • tonka on 03/07/2022 - 14:27
      +3

      But why should we need to pay a .5% toll to these middlemen .dot wannabe billionaires. Pretty soon we'll have a situation where .5% of all the rent paid in Australia is being leached off to an offshore tax haven. No Jobs created, but AU jobs lost and more Aust debt.
      And the fee free solution you mention is physically going to the bank, that's not free, it's a deliberate deterrent and calling it a solution is you being misleading.

      • Boioioioi on 03/07/2022 - 14:33
        +2

        Agreed! Gyms are fkn bullshit for this too. Get charged $1.50 fee on a $14 charge. If you miss a payment, even if you pay it immediately after, $20 fee! Ridiculous

      • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 20:56

        But why should we need to pay a .5% toll to these middlemen .dot wannabe billionaires.

        You don't have to there are alternatives like a simple direct debit from your Australian bank.

        No Jobs created, but AU jobs lost and more Aust debt.

        So would the fees be OK if they were going to an Australian owned financial institution?

        And the fee free solution you mention is physically going to the bank, that's not free, it's a deliberate deterrent and calling it a solution is you being misleading.

        Going to a bank and giving money to the teller IS free, it costs no money to do that.

        If you are going to include left field sh!t like my time, my petrol, my car tyre wear and tear, then everything you do has a cost being it time or opportunity.

        • tonka on 03/07/2022 - 22:56

          There are many things wrong with your argument but first of all, why do you keep saying the OP can use a direct debit for free when they clearly state that a direct debit is what they consider the best solution but not being allowed as an option.
          Next do you not understand the impact of removing .5 percent of rents directly from the Aust economy. It would be OK if an Aust owned institution and that money is being re-directed to local persons that are in turn spending it locally and creating jobs. This is fundamentals of economics.
          And yes of course petrol and time are a factor. I don't believe for a single minute, you'd be happy to travel to a physical bank, maybe take time off work, pay for an uber or parking, possibly have to travel across a few suburbs, queue up at bank etc every week just to pay your rent because a real estate agent wants to force you into a system where they have outsourced their costs at your expense.

    • cookie2 on 03/07/2022 - 17:37

      It's not a fee free option.

    • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 20:52
      +1

      Paying by cheque isn't free, it costs money for each cheque you write and paying by visiting a physical bank each fortnight is at least 30mins of my time + petrol, etc.

      You can pay your water bill, electricity, internet, etc. all by using direct debit, and none of them will sting you $20-30 for a failed transaction but rental processors rely on those fees and it's BS.

      The first time this happened I visited the bank physically every fortnight out of spite for 3 months until the lease ended when they switched over at the end of the lease after arguing with the rental agency.

      Just signing a new lease I'm very hesitant to burn my bridges just as I'm moving in, it's not worth it. It's equivalent to insulting staff a fast food restaurant as you're ordering. It's not difficult for them to "find" issues at the end of my lease or make the 3 monthly rental inspections that QLDers enjoy difficult by requiring everything to be spotless and constantly revisiting to ensure it's clean to their standards.

      • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 21:00
        -2

        Paying by cheque isn't free, it costs money for each cheque you write

        That wasn't the free option the OP stated.

        paying by visiting a physical bank each fortnight is at least 30mins of my time + petrol, etc.

        See my comment above.

        You can pay your water bill, electricity, internet, etc. all by using direct debit, and none of them will sting you $20-30 for a failed transaction but rental processors rely on those fees and it's BS.

        Except those fees are charged by the renter's financial institution NOT the REA or the Landlord or the 3rd party rental processor.

        https://www.westpac.com.au/personal-banking/bank-accounts/ma…

        • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 21:04

          "Except those fees are charged by the renter's financial institution NOT the REA or the Landlord or the 3rd party rental processor.

          https://www.westpac.com.au/personal-banking/bank-accounts/ma…

          This is where have a misunderstanding. I'm not being charged a dishonour fee by my bank and my bank isn't charging the 3rd party rental processor (https://www.paychoice.com.au/blog/direct-debit-dishonor-fees). The rental processor is charging me a ~$15 dishonour fee.

          • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 21:13
            -2

            @Guerilla89:

            This is where have a misunderstanding. I'm not being charged a dishonour fee by my bank and my bank isn't charging the 3rd party rental processor (https://www.paychoice.com.au/blog/direct-debit-dishonor-fees). The rental processor is charging me a ~$15 dishonour fee.

            Thank you for clarifying that.

            What I would say to that is when you signed up to use that service you would have been asked to agree to the terms and conditions of that service provider.

            I would bet that the T's and C's outline the fees which you agreed to.

            • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 21:26
              +1

              @tsunamisurfer: Let me paint the picture for you, I've given my 2 weeks notice to leave 1 week ago, I've moved everything into the new place, I've signed the lease and paid deposit + 2 weeks rent (this was done by bank deposit, so nothing appeared out of the usual), I don't have extra money to just swap where I'm living on principle and my real estate now tells me "hey here's how you're paying rent".

              You talk as if it's just something I can simply walk away from. Honestly I'd be totally cool with it if the rental advertisement said PS rental payments must be paid by rental processor and then I never would've applied for the place.

              Imagine if you put down a deposit on a home and then found out that oh BTW, your part of a home owners association like what happens in the states. Obviously that's a lot more money and a much bigger problem but it's the same order of events and comparitive loss (compared to what I have).

              • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 22:10
                -2

                @Guerilla89:

                Let me paint the picture for you, I've given my 2 weeks notice to leave 1 week ago, I've moved everything into the new place, I've signed the lease and paid deposit + 2 weeks rent (this was done by bank deposit, so nothing appeared out of the usual), I don't have extra money to just swap where I'm living on principle and my real estate now tells me "hey here's how you're paying rent".

                It's one dollar and sixty five fxxking cents.

                Grow up.

                Thank you.

                • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 22:26
                  +1

                  @tsunamisurfer: If you think they make their money off the $1.65 and not the other fees, you're living in the world that you wish was real. PS the fact you felt the need to make it personal and that you spend your time finding points in online arguments and continue them until you feel you've won… and then you tell me to grow up… OK. I'm gonna let you be the last person to get the last word in, I hope it brings it you joy because I won't be responding to you again.

                • tonka on 03/07/2022 - 23:00

                  @tsunamisurfer: Nasty sod!

                • tonka on 03/07/2022 - 23:11

                  @tsunamisurfer: "It's one dollar and sixty five fxxking cents."

                  That's $85 a year if you pay rent weekly. You've posted deals for a meager $3.50 savings, please explain this as smells a bit like hypocrisy.

  • Eatslikeacat on 03/07/2022 - 16:18
    +2

    Check with the fair trading body in your State/Territory. There are usually laws that require that the agent provides 1 free and easy to use method of payment. The practice of forcing you to use a third party (called third line forcing) is usually illegal and a complaint can be lodged with the fair trading body. The fair trading body can investigate and action any illegal conduct.

  • Eatslikeacat on 03/07/2022 - 16:54

    Oh I see this is QLD. See https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/starting-a-tenancy/rent-payments The relevant parts are sections 83 and 84 of the QLD Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act 2008. See https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current… and https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current…

    It says that in additional to the rent card they must offer you 2 other payment options approved under section 83. "Deposit to a financial institution account" doesn't say that it has to be a physical deposit. Does that financial institution not allow online transfer? Can't you open an account at that bank? If they wanted to be evil they could have just chosen "cash" or "cheque". Heard of a story where this guy used to go to the real estate's office every week to pay using cash. The agent got sick of it and then allowed him to do online transfer.

    It might be worthwhile submitting a complaint to the Residential Tenancies Authority in QLD and see what they say but YMMV.

    In the end, if the agent for example gave you the option of rent card, cash, or cheque, and cash and cheque is inconvenient for you then they have complied with the law and too bad for you. There is huge imbalance in the power between the landlord and the tenant. The risk is that tenants are fearful that if they cause trouble then then landlord will find a way to end the tenancy.

    QLD has rent law reforms which start rolling out on 1 October 2022 over 3 years but they don't include rent payment methods. The QLD law reforms are supposed to be pro tenant but I really wonder if it'll work. From 1 October 2022 a landlord can no longer do a no grounds eviction during a periodic tenancy. Critics have stated that it will end most periodic tenancies in QLD. A tenancy usually starts as a fixed term. If the landlord wants the tenant to move out on the fixed term end date then the landlord serves notice 2 months in advance. If the fixed term is not ended then the lease rolls over into what's called a periodic tenancy. With the new reforms it's much harder to remove a tenant during a periodic tenancy. The landlord is allowed to negotiate a new fixed term with a tenant. So a tenant can end up with successive fixed terms and no certainty because the landlord doesn't want the tenant to have a period tenancy. Landlords might also try to do move in evictions where the landlord uses the grounds of moving in to evict the tenant. It will be interesting to see how the QLD changes actually plays out.

    For example, the landlord gives the tenant only 6 month fixed terms. The landlord then tells the tenant that they must either agree to a new fixed term agreement otherwise the landlord will serve notice that the tenant must move out at the end of the fixed term. The tenant ends up with ongoing 6 month fixed terms because the landlord is afraid that if it becomes a periodic tenancy then a without grounds eviction cannot be done.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 17:55
      +1

      The landlord then tells the tenant that they must either agree to a new fixed term agreement otherwise the landlord will serve notice that the tenant must move out at the end of the fixed term.

      RE agents now either give you front dated notice at the beginning of the lease or issuing one regardless whether you intend to stay or not. The most annoying thing about renting in QLD is 2 months notice, you can't find a new place 2 months in advance so it's either extend for another term or live 2 months in a limbo.

  • Eatslikeacat on 03/07/2022 - 17:18
    +1

    In NSW a landlord or agent cannot require that a tenant pay by cheque. Also, "A landlord or landlord’s agent must permit a tenant to pay the rent by at least one means for which the tenant does not incur a cost (other than bank fees or other account fees usually payable for the tenant’s transactions) and that is reasonably available to the tenant." See: https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/inforce/curre… Well, what 'reasonably available' means I don't know.

    • cookie2 on 03/07/2022 - 17:39
      +1

      I would assume that reasonably available pertains to if a reasonable person would consider the method to be freely available without inconvenience or various hoop jumping.

    • Guerilla89 on 03/07/2022 - 21:00

      Sorry should have clarified this in QLD.

  • tsunamisurfer on 03/07/2022 - 21:02
    -4

    I thought all of these dishonour fees were found to be illegal in Australian courts because they completely fail to reflect any work or issue caused on their end, is that wrong?

    You thought wrong.

    All you need be is be a financially responsible homo sapien. There are billions of these around, ask them how it is done.

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