This seems like a decent price for these with sub and save lowering it even further.
CamelCamelCamel.
Ordered, thanks!
I got Promotion(s) Applied:-$7.20 when I checked out.
Not sure where this promo credit comes from.
Anyone?
Edit: Nevermind, I had $6 credit received yesterday from airbnb giftcard deal.
How is this compared to Optifast? I reckoned these are like for dieting purposes?
I know optifast is prescribed by dietitians and health professionals when helping patients lose weight. I don't know about this product.
Anyone know if you can sub to save 10% then cancel immediately afterward?
Yes you can
Sunflower oil wtf. That's worse then sugar.
Yeah I wouldn't be recommending anyone be drinking these
What's wrong with the sunflower oil? We always use it for cooking.
I only use olive oil for cooking.
one should stay away from seed or vegetable oil.
Why is that?
Explains the higher fat content…
That's the whole point of a keto diet
wants to lose fat = eats more fat
LOL
They are just restricting overall calories, all those fads.
@G-rig: Change in weight = Calories In - Calories Out
I agree. But it's not that simple either.
What you eat, can influence hormones, which can influence calories out.
wants to lose fat = eats more fat
When you eat any macro nutrient. Eat too many calories made up of sugar or protien (or even fibre, which colon bacteria convert into short-chain-fatty-acids, which contain calories!), and you'll be storing the excess calories as fat as well.
Atkins*
@Herb Utsmellz: Atkins, keto, caveman, carnivore, paleo all the same, these guys are good at reinventing the fads in the industry to get everyone's money
@G-rig: Well aware of what they are and not quite the same but similar principle.
The study has been there for decades, eat a well balanced diet and eat less calories than you burn and you will lose wait (in most instances, excluding certain health issues)
@Herb Utsmellz: Fair enough, they aren't usually balanced diets though, the low or no carb, and usually very low in fibre and other nutrients. I mean keto you can eat 50g carbs a day (half a banana or a piece of bread lol). Fibre is the key to losing weight.
Calories in vs out is a basic guide but not all calories are the same. People could eat unlimited fruit and veg and not gain weight, it's all the other processed refined crap, and calorie dense fats . Don't forget, fats are 9cal/g & carbs = 4 cal/g. People overdo it on the animal fats, and think excess calories just go to your biceps.
Exercise helps with metabolic burn as well. Most people know what to do (eat when hungry, stop when full, exercise) but like to be told good things about their bad habits.
Actually, it's not.
The point is to reduce your carbohydrate level so as to reduce insulin (and similarly affect other hormones) and therefore allow your body to control the storage of fat (hunger signalling, and other mechanisms) better.
The eating of additional fat is usually a result of having to eat something* (that isn't carbs). There has become an 'internet keto' thought that eating more fat is inherently good, but it does seem to contradict the aim of those intending to lose weight - and isn't supported by the scientific study results.
@Gareth: I thought the idea of having you consuming fat rather than carbohydrates is to get the body to burn fat as an energy source rather than carbohydrates, to get your body into ketosis.
No health expert here, but been doing fasting 5 days a week for months now with pretty good result.
@ksama0079: Most people wouldn't do it properly or even get into ketosis. Just eat as much bacon and eggs as ya want.
Saturated fat is the problem, leads to many heart diseases and diabetes.
People are just conditioned to blame poor carbs and sugar (which are the best forms of energy btw, glucose). The trick is just consuming as much food as you need whatever the diet and being active.
I imagine the difference is just calorie restricting, and filling up on smaller portions of calorie dense fats. Snacking is what probably derails most people.
Intermittent fasting (longer than break-fast) has some credibility, don't mind the idea of that to give your digestion a break (ie 16/8 or something reasonable), not too hard to finish early and delay breakfast.
If you didn't eat for 5 out of 7 days a week, you'd expect to lose heaps of weight. mostly water weight but woudln't recommend that unsupervised but know people that do 5 days on 2 off. None are ever skinny or have a six pack.
Saturated fat is the problem, leads to many heart diseases and diabetes.
You really need to better inform yourself and not spread misinformation. Read about apoptosis and autophagy and conditions required for it.
…carbs and sugar (which are the best forms of energy btw, glucose).
Really? According to which criteria? Perhaps you meant to say that carbs get used first in sequential order, when available. That does not make them 'best' form of energy.
@G-rig: I agree about transfats, but majority of people have been misled about the dangers of saturated fat over the last 40 years.
@ksama0079: Sure, the intention is to get your body burning fat - but it will naturally do that - assuming you have available lipid stores - when its supply of glycogen (created by the liver from glucose [ie carbs]) is sufficiently low. Essentially the body will prefer using glycogen if it is available.
In the early stage of the low-carb diet adding fat (and some salts) may assist in getting your body into the ketosis 'rhythm'. (We've all heard of the 'keto flu' problems which most experience to some degree).
No problemo, Its bulking season
Fat is not all the same.
Vegetable/ Seeds oils are high in PUFAs. These PUFAs are extremely prone to oxidise which makes them rancid.
They use heat, pressure, HEXA chemicals and bleach to produce them. These oils are already rancid when they hit the bottle in the factory, but you can't tell because of the bleach.
Anyone eating vegetable/ seed oils basically puts rancid, toxic oils in their body.
Much worse then sugar mate!
Not supported by evidence.
Increasing PUFA probably makes little or no difference (neither benefit nor harm) to our risk of death (moderate-quality evidence), and may make little or no difference to our risk of dying from cardiovascular disease (low-quality evidence). However, increasing PUFA probably slightly reduces our risk of heart disease events and of combined heart and stroke events (moderate-quality evidence). Fifty three people would need to eat more PUFA to prevent one person experiencing a heart disease event, and 63 people to prevent one person experiencing a heart or stroke event. Increasing PUFA may very slightly reduce risk of death due to heart disease, as well as stroke, but harm is possible (low-quality evidence). PUFA probably slightly reduces fats circulating in the blood (triglycerides, moderate-quality evidence but without effects on other lipids or adiposity). The evidence mainly comes from dietary-advice trials of men living in high-income countries.
https://www.cochrane.org/CD012345/VASC_polyunsaturated-fatty…
The findings of this updated review suggest that reducing saturated fat intake for at least two years causes a potentially important reduction in combined cardiovascular events. Replacing the energy from saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat or carbohydrate appear to be useful strategies, while effects of replacement with monounsaturated fat are unclear. The reduction in combined cardiovascular events resulting from reducing saturated fat did not alter by study duration, sex or baseline level of cardiovascular risk, but greater reduction in saturated fat caused greater reductions in cardiovascular events.
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD…
@[Deactivated]: All these studies are based on Epidemiology.
Nutritional Epidemiology science is highly flawed.
Bart Kay explains it very well, if you are truly interested:
https://youtu.be/qWgH-VaqMjQ
Don't confuse science with the real world.
I agree that they can become rancid. What evidence is there that they are rancid?
@RecklessMonkeys: I challenge you to eat these oils before they start bleaching and refining them.
They were used to lubricate machinery when they were first invented.
Have a look at how they produce them:
https://youtu.be/Cfk2IXlZdbI
@Mavicair98: no refined oils are really good for you, as well as the most dense calorie food.
You're better off eating olives than olive oil, sunflower seeds than sunflower oil…
@Mavicair98: Just because an oil is a lubricant doesn't necessarily make it bad for you.
Similarly, chemicals aren't necessarily good or bad for you.
Digestion itself requires a high-acid environment. Is acid bad for you?
As for "Prof" Kay, the video sounds more like a rant. He may even make some valid points, but waving away a epidemiology is a bit weird. I don't think he even provides a reference for the study he cans.
I googled the "Institute for Health Science Integrity" - not much came back.
Which university conferred Professorship to him?
Don't confuse science with the real world.
Science is an attempt to understand the real world. There is no better way of doing so. Otherwise it's just assertions.
I'm not a processed oils fan-boi, I'm just asking for peer-reviewed evidence.
Depends on which fat. Saturated fat is less susceptible to oxidation and is therefore considered better for human consumption (despite unfounded and outdated fear mongering). Polyunsaturated seed oils? Not so much.
I hate that I spent a good 8 years eating/drinking shit like this before I learned how bad seed oils are :(
I wouldn't give these products to anyone, not even people I hate.
All the health scams and misconceptions neatly packed into a convenient drink.
Dont seem to be any screen shots of the nutritional info
Atkins is the worst diet, and every variation of it haha
You can always find fault with any diet tbh
What fault is there with a vegetarian diet?
There is no fish and grits i suppose.
Lack of taurine, creatine, B-Vitamins, carnitine, carnosine, HEME-Iron, CoQ10, CLA, Vitamin A, D, F, K2
@Mavicair98: The site you copied and pasted that from is talking about a vegan diet. All of those nutrients you've mentioned are covered by dairy and bread/pasta and vegetables.
You mean vegan diet.. you can get all of the vitamins and minerals you need, except b12, which is easily supplemental. The cows are given it anyway so you're just cutting out the middle man.
@G-rig: If the radical eaters had their way and it became the norm:
Vegan or vegetarian. The first drought season and you'd get famine,
@FredAstair: There have been plenty of droughts in Au in the past years.
Just because lettuce is $10 doesn't mean you have to buy it lol.
Glad I don't have to worry about the cost of groceries and the price of meat, vegetarian/vegan it's as cheap as you want to make it.
Keto is more 'radical' and strict, and the other starvation diets.
@G-rig: I guess if I presented you with any you'd still deny them.
But ill start with global warming and large percentage of land in the world not suitable for crops, but suitable for livestock, and the expotentiall worldwide increasing population t I nstart with.
@FredAstair: Too easy, you're not wrong - the livestock methane emissions and breeding of livestock that has a heavy cost on the planet. Just the land area and water required is far more than crops. Yet most of the crops go to feed said livestock.
That's a whole other debate and people will neve see eye to eye on despite many 'facts'.
Artificially sweetened vegetable oil? Yeah nah
To put it into perspective, there are about 2 teaspoons (9.2g) of sunflower oil in the 330ml of this.
Realistically it's basically water, with some whey protein, a little sunflower oil, cocoa solids, gums (to thicken) and a touch of artificial sweetener.
As much as the sunflower oil isn't particularly appealing, it is far from the worst of the Atkins branded products in (Australian) stores. The Atkins label seems to have been stuck on loads of products that have reduced carbs/sugars without necessarily considering the other contents. (eg Maltitol).
10g of pure oil doesn't make sense when people are paying for these skinny shakes to lose weight.
Not sure why you wouldn't just get a cleaner protein shake and mix with water or low fat / Natural milks.
The fat you eat is the fat you wear ;)
Is the goal to eat more protein?
If so, this is a very expensive way to do it. More than 3x the price of a typical whey protein powder.
$12 buys you 90g of protein vs 340g with a typical protein powder.
Just sayin.
or skim milk powder
or a regular diet
Yeah real food is best.
just saying protein powder mostly just that anyway and a con
There are healthier based protein powders than whey
well… they say cooking at home is always cheaper…
Most of the time that's right.
But people are busy and there's only so much chicken breast one can eat. :)
So supplements can be helpful especially if you need more protein than the standard DRI.
my point was to say making shakes at home vs buying premade shakes… not chicken breasts…
You could always have some smashed avocados.
You could. Its very tasty. But it ain't gonna give you much protein 🙂
just have with sausages and bacon
@G-rig: Now that will give you a good hit of protein, but a crap load of saturated fat at the same time.
but a crap load of saturated fat at the same time
And the problem with that is what exactly?
@findingbargains: Most of the research and public health advice concurs that saturated fats have a significant effect on increased weight gain, heart disease, LDL cholesterol and stroke. So that's why I feel they're not great for you. But if you're not worried about those things then go for it.
@stuckster: It's atkins / keto, so don't worry about that…. LOL.
Everyone must be hitting the gym and weights bloody hard for the high protein requirements.
@G-rig: Dunno everyone's protein requirements. But yeah, they will certainly increase as training and physical activity increases (or if you're over 70). Simply pointing out that if the purpose of these drinks is to have more protein then there's much cheaper ways of getting it, whether that be through other protein supplements or diet.
@stuckster: Totally agree mate. The minimum RDI for protein isn't as much as the meat industries make you think it is, just saying. Of course if you are hitting the weights then you don't want to waste your efforts by not consuming enough, but even then people go nuts about it and usually try hit too much (costs more, extra load on your liver/kidneys, the planet). Any excess can still get excreted. The total cals in/out is more important for weight gain/loss hey.
A report from the New York medical examiner's office leaked a year after his death said that Atkins had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension, and that at the time of his death he weighed 258 pounds (117 kg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(physician)#Death
Are you really going to quote that without including the literal next sentence?
According to Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council (a group of physicians who work as consultants to the Atkins organization), this report contained incomplete medical records and that Atkins did not have a history of heart attack; instead, according to Trager, Atkins had cardiomyopathy, a heart muscle disease that was probably caused by a virus, not his diet.
Trager was on the payroll.
Are you too?
bit of a coincidence isn't it.. heart attack and heart disease.
either way it's a terrible diet model and dangerous long term.
Tell that to all the people that have reversed their type 2 diabetes and triglycerides (I'm one of them) and host of other chronic health problems by going at least low carb, if not necessarily keto.
@G-rig: Good to know. I prefer omnivore diet and it is a great option available to those who do not want to be on an artificially restrictive diets where they have to take supplements and jump through hoops to get complete protein.
@findingbargains: omnivore sounds like a normal balanced diet and not overeating :).
if anything keto a lot more restrictive than plant based with what you can and can't eat.
it's also not that hard once you get into it and get used to what to eat. Most people are obsessed with protein and go way overboard with it, have you heard of anyone being protein deficient? Anyway you can get everything you need from plants, look how big and strong gorillas are :P. Everyone's own choice, just comes down to what convenience is acceptable and your comfort / habits.
Nope.
If you worked in cardiology you'd know that's not true.
Good old ozbargain experts.
You'll never win.
If they say he died from a heart attack how dare you bring facts and logic into the equation.
It wouldn't have been his terrible diet that caused his heart disease. Other healthier people get viruses and don't die.
Robert Atkins spent his life telling people they could eat fat and stay slim. But according to his medical records, the man behind the Atkins diet was obese at the time of his death.
The medical records, leaked to the media yesterday, also showed that Dr Atkins had heart disease and hypertension, conditions that have been linked to high-fat diets.
Anyway I'm not stopping anyone purchasing the Atkins milk shakes.
@G-rig: Hypertension and heart disease can be hereditary.
But hey. I’m not stopping anyone from listening/reading media that may or may not provide the truth
just eat more veggie…!!
Certainly possible if you're dedicated enough, but tricky for most people to get enough complete proteins through veggies alone.
Not that hard it's in more things than you realise. Sedentary people only need about 0.8g/kg of protein. (eg. 56g for a 70kg person). 1.2 to maybe 1.6 for athletes. I suppose gym lifters want 2.5-3 g/kg.
Apps like cronometer and myfitnesspal are great tools to check and research foods.
Just comes down to convenience i suppose.
Nah. Not really.
I thought this was Valvoline oil at first looks
Skull a bucket of benefiber per day you'll be aaight
ordered, thx OP